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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Speaking of badges does anyone know if the badges on the hatch of Legacys are glued on or are they attached with holes through the sheetmetal?

    bit
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There is an AWD badge on the back. There may be others? I don't recall.

    I would hope that by now tow truck operators would know all Subarus are AWD. It's been half a decade already.

    Better yet - never put yourself in a position to be towed.

    bit: don't quote me on this, but I think there are holes.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well these are tow-truck operators... You know not astro-physicists... Besides why should they care? It's not their car.

    Downed signs or incorrect signs can lead to being towed...

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I say you have to credit Subaru for the WRX badging. I was afraid that there would be a huge T U R B O badge somewhere. I think the only badges I have are:
    Subaru - 1
    Impreza - 1
    Outback Sport 2
    Outback - 1
    AWD - 2. :-)
    Dennis
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    have a "Dennis" badge on the car??? Cool. ;)

    -Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I see...you park in the city a lot. Us 'burb types rarely have to park in the streets. Nothing bad ever happens in the burbs. Remember that line from Melanie Griffith? Trivia - what movie was that from?

    Actually, Greg, they should come out with a "Dave" badge.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    My Impreza has:
    1x S U B A R U (emblem)
    1x AWD (sticker)
    1x 2.5RS IMPREZA (emblem)
    2x 2.5RS (sticker)

    They're all coming off as soon as I get my car back. ;-)

    I agree, the WRX's badging is tasteful.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lucien: I'd take a US1 so long as I were that lucky one!

    Less than 5 seconds to 60! Sweet!

    There is this Camaro that parks near my work, on the street, and it has something like 12 fake "SS" badges all over it. Even the license plates say something to that effect.

    Funny thing is it is not an SS! No hood scoop even. Apparently the young guys in the Civic Type Rs are not the only ones!

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm suprised you guys don't think our Subies have too much badging.

    Let's see, my Forester has:

    1x big SUBARU on the back
    2x Forester stickers on the side
    2x AWD stickers on windows (now off due to tint)
    1x Forester badge on back
    1x AWD badge on back

    I'd loose the stickers if anything.

    When I was renting the OB Ltd Sedan, I thought it had way too many badges on the back.

    I guess it's just me. :)

    Ken
  • mwwstmwwst Member Posts: 30
    The worst badges of all are the ones put on by the dealership to shamelessly promote themselves. I took mine off the first week I had the car.

    MWWST
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Me too. I forgot to even mention that one.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I drove a Jeep Limited yesterday. It was a "G" package, which is the top package for the Liberty. The only other option was the heated seats. It stickered, with package discount, a bit above $25.8K. Still, it lacked ABS, A/T tires, tow package and sunroof.

    I have to tell you, it's the best steering Jeep I've ever driven. The ride seemed a tad bouncy, but very much in control. It was tight as drum. The quality, from what I could see was excellent. The rear passenger space was roomy, and very comfortable—light years ahead of the Cherokee in this regard.

    The Forester is still the better vehicle on a winding road, and it rides better too. But still, IMHO, Jeep did a great job with the new Liberty. I just hope the next Forester will be more up to the task in terms of towing and off-road capability.

    One thing for sure, it's a tall vehicle, much like a Trooper. Getting things on and off the roof rack will be a chore.

    There is a lot of items in the "G" package, but, as I've mentioned before, I just wish there was more "standard content" to the vehicle, and less "nickel-and-diming" in terms of options.

    Here are some prices for various options:

    Off-Road package: Sport = $765.00, Limited = $520.00
    Tow package: Sport & Limited = $325.00
    Tow package (if you order Off-Road package too): Sport & Limited = $245.00
    Alloy wheels: Sport $310.00
    Sunroof: Sport & Limited = $700.00

    The dealer indicated that, according to his order book, you can only get A/T tires on the Sport if you order the Off-Road package. A/T tires are a no-charge option on the Limited. I forgot to ask what ABS would cost.

    Also, looking under the hood, there seems to be room for a V8 (a lot of space between the front of the engine and the radiator). Hmmm...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds good, but pricey. Add the options you're talking about and it's over $27k. That's getting into Highlander/Explorer territory, isn't it?

    There is a lot of pressure from the newcomers. The Santa Fe goes for $22k, and the Escape for about $25k, both well equipped.

    Question is, should Subaru emphasize value, and stay at the current price levels, or go for best-in-class, and allow prices to hit the high twenties?

    Tough choice, I think.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    going off road, the Liberty is clearly the choice. Remember, this is a "true' SUV with excellent low range gearing, and it's built very rugged for that purpose alone. Plus, with the tow package, it can pull 5000#. This is not a car-based vehicle. It's a rugged truck (despite what some may say), comparable to the Xterra or 4Runner.

    A comparably equipped Explorer will be over $30K. Same with the Highlander.

    Also, the one I drove was the top-of-the line model. It came with leather and a bunch of other stuff I don't really need. My choice would be a less expensive "Sport" model, optioned the way I want it.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess with the V6 it'll be more on par with the supercharged XTerra than the current one, and that breaks $25k pretty easily.

    What I was saying is that most small SUVs start around $18k and go as far as $25k. $27k is pretty much pushing into uncharted territory for the small SUV class.

    I guess it'll have company when the Freelander arrives, perhaps as a premium small SUV?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Rodeo I belive is cheaper and better than the liberty, but that's just my opinion. It can also tow 4500lbs so it's right in the ballpark. We'll see how the reliability of the liberty is though.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, a very good point.

    The Grand has had some major issues. Jeeps tend to be durable, but not reliable.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    will be people who need more than what the Forester, or other small SUVs can't offer—towing, etc.

    I agree, reliability is yet to be determined. Jeep did build a brand new state-of-art factory for this vehicle though. So quality, once they're up and running at full capacity, should be better than before. Interestingly, the (simpler) Cherokee has been fairly trouble-free. It's been the best of the Jeeps in that respect.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    The worst part about a Rodeo is it's part-time 4WD. Great vehicle though. If my wife's '95 Rodeo had TOD, she would probably still be driving it. RWD is no fun in the rain.
    IMO, we're not going to get much more towing capability in a car.

    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    TOD rocks. And on a side note, I was in the Axiom yesterday and it felt like a really nice car. (I was at the dealer and they needed someone to jockey around some cars, so I jumped on the opportunity) The Axiom ride and feel is quite nice, and with TOD it will make a nice luxo-wagon.

    -mike
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Edmunds long-term tested a 98' Rodeo which is basically the same as the 2001 model (98'being 1st year of redesign). They didn't have very many nice things to say about its reliability. The Rodeo left them stranded more often than not. Additionally, Honda uses the a rebadged Rodeo and has regretted this move as the Rodeo has tarnished their legendary reliability record. Most people only see the Honda name and assume it's a Honda. It will be interesting to see how well Isuzu does w/the Rodeo's next redesign. I would definitely go for a Trooper over a Rodeo any day of the week! Just my IMHO.

    Stephen
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree. I've never been a big fan of the Rodeo/Passport.

    The Liberty I drove had Select Trac, which has a full-time 4WD mode, in addition to a low range and a neutral position in the transfer case. The advantage of the "neutral" position, is that if it needs to be towed, you don't need to put it on a rollback.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    1 vehicle does not tell the whole story.

    I know of 100s of people who have no problems with their rodeos, especially '99 and '00 and '01. They did work out the gremlins after the first year. :)

    Side note, I know why they have expanded the Indiana SIA plant. It looks like the next Trooper will be coming out of the SIA plant rather than Japan. Isuzu Japan is going to be expanding their Med Duty Trucks and Bus division.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Au contraire', RWD is a whole lot of fun in the rain. Overly exciting at times, depending on your tires... perhaps. ;-)

    I wouldn't mind seeing some co-developed vehicles with RWD and selectable AWD/4WD based on Subaru's multiplate clutch pack technology.

    -Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bob- Trouble is that Select Trac is only available with the Limited version. The Sport version is stuck with Command Trac (part-time 4WD only).

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: did it feel as quick as the Highlander? The VDC? Just curious...

    paisan: Fitz also sells Isuzus, so if they can't get me an H6 or WRX loaner I may ask if they have an Axiom. We're road tripping in two cars with several kids so the space would come in handy.

    Honda owners expect the very best, and remember the Passport does not match the Rodeo's warranty, then or now.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You'll like it if you drive it, but may not want to go back to your forester ;)

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Bob/Steve,
    I base my experience on my wife's 95 (before the re-design). In four years it saw only two minor problems - loose hatch latch and then a dead battery at 3 3/4 years. My wife's OB has had 6 or 7 minor problems in 2 1/2 years.

    Colin - Yeah, my wife got overly excited accelerating while making a left-hand turn in the rain. Fish-tailed it and hit the curb then went into the oncoming lane. Luckily there were no cars coming. Then it was "hello AWD".

    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I will if I'm paying the gas bills. ;-)

    Short-term, I don't care. I like to try different vehicles. A Trooper would be fun for a week.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Dennis-- more than a few iClubbers have done that with AWD. The limit is higher, but it's still there. Sometimes the added capability makes you foolish...

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Edmunds review of the Mini is up.

    Man, I hate that speedo. Was the old one like that? It has the misfortune of being like the dorky Echo.

    They say 0-60 in 7.5 for the Cooper S, nowhere close to the Rex, but still fun.

    Note the CVT, too, and how the Euro market one keeps it at 5000 or even 6000 revs for peak power all the time. Too bad the US one was watered down.

    -juice-
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Got the Liberty Brochure right here.

    Select Trac is optional on the Sport (A & B pkgs), Limited (F pkg), but is standard on top Limited (G pkg), which is what I drove. IMHO, Select Trac should be standard across the board. There's no need to offer Command Trac, or 2WD versions. Interesting to note that there are no C, D, or E packages (yet).

    It felt quick. I didn't floor it, or anything like that. I didn't feel that I needed extra power. As to the Highlander, probably about the same. It felt quicker off the line than a H-6 Subie.

    Bob
  • kostamojen2kostamojen2 Member Posts: 284
    Saw the Axiom when I was out looking for a Protege 5 to see and test drive... I didnt like the interior much (on the axiom) but the exterior styling is definatly there. The room inside isnt that great, comparible to the Highlander or Escape I would say.

    If I wanted something purely for off-road type use, I would do one of two things:
    1) Get a Forester and get one of those 3" Lift kits...
    or
    2) Get the Liberty.

    Motor trend took the Liberty, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee and Wrangler up to that super-hard off-road course here in california, and put them all to the test...
    Surprizingly, the Liberty came close to the Wrangler in terms of capability, and put shame to the rest of the lineup. Its definatly a serious off-road vehicle.
    But, the Forester is as far as Im willing to go into buying anything resembling an SUV :P :D

    Ya, I just read the MINI article too... Im SOOOO ticked theyre screwing with the US CVT engine! ARG! I would actually think about getting that car FOR the CVT, but there messing with it! :( And the Cooper S will be WAY too expensive! ($30k with all the options!) Typical BMW Option gouging... :(
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    OK, I'm at it again...

    2002
    I think we've pretty much seen what's going to be new for '02. I don't think we'll see another performance model for this year. I really don't think SOA wants to do anything that will take attention away from the WRX in '02.

    We may possibly(?) see the 4EAT "Sport-Shift" man-u-matic brought over from Japan for the Legacy GT.

    2003
    I think this will be a big year for SOA.

    Legacy/Outback
    I think the just released SOJ Legacy/Lancaster is a preview of what the SOA Legacy/Outbacks will look like. I predict we will get the same SOJ headlights (perhaps w/HID on top models), tailights (with clear turn signals), grille, aluminum hood, and wheels.

    I predict a 2.5 turbo, same WRX momo steering wheel and SOJ Legacy 17" wheels (on performance models), and hopefully a 6-speed manual with the turbo.

    I know we all hope for a 5EAT too, but I haven't heard anything to that effect. I'm still hoping...

    I also wouldn't be surprised to see a few model names revised. I think the base "GT" will become an "RS" and the the turbo will be called a "GT-S."

    Forester
    This model has been discussed to death here. Let's just hope that both SOJ and SOA has gotten the message.

    Impreza
    Tweaks. That's just about it. I hope SOA rethinks the 17" wheel/tire package, offers a moonroof, and the All-Weather package with heated seats and outside mirrors.

    Others

    STX/Brat
    Again, let's hope for the best.

    SVX
    I think we'll see some sort of coupe and or roadster, but not until 2004.

    Bob
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Carol's had two Jeeps, both Cherokees. I'm not crazy about them as vehicles but one thing they both have been is reliable and trustworthy. No bad tales to tell of Jeeps being unreliable here.

    The new Mini is so cute! I had "real" Minis, 3 in all, over the years. I can't wait to drive one of the new ones. The centrally mounted speedo is true to the old car, and to Sir Alec Issigonis' mission of making the car starkly, frugally economical; all it took to change a Mini from left-hand to right-hand drive was a different steering rack! (Which the Edmunds story gets wrong, BTW; Minis had rack and pinion steering from day one.) And the tach mounted on the steering column is hilarious! Minis had only a speedometer for instrumentation, (the Coopers added oil pressure and volt meters) so of course everyone added their own tach and -- you guessed it -- they strapped them to the steering column, which by the way was quite simply a cylinder which came straight up out of the floor without being hidden or camoflaged in plastic or anything else until it got up to the turn signal stalk. Sliding windows, hollow doors with "pockets" big enough to swallow a pair of dictionaries, rubber cone suspension, 10-inch wheels.

    Ah, nostalgia :-)

    However at $30k for a "new" Mini (a top line gussied up S), I think I'll be limiting my intake to a test drive. That's too much money by about $8k; what in the world are they thinking.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I remember owning a '62 VW, which was the first year VW had a fuel gauge! No kidding. Prior models had a reserve fuel tank, which held about a gallon of gas. When you ran out of gas, you flipped a lever on the tunnel between the front seats to open the reserve tank.

    Bob
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    I had one of those too! A 1960 Beetle with a canvas sunroof. The sunroof was so wide, and the car so gutless, that you could stand straight up while driving down the road; just floor the throttle and hang onto the top of the steering wheel. 36 HP, 15 inch wheels, (useless) drum brakes, and a reverse heating system that baked you in the summer and froze you in the winter.

    Ah, nostalgia :-))

    The reserve tank was tricky. You had to have the lever open in order to get gas INTO the reserve, say when you were filling up, then you had to remember to flip it back to CLOSED. (Remembering to do so was made more difficult by the fact that the lever was out of sight under the dashboard.) If you forgot, and you ran out of gas, you'd reach for the lever and, ooopsie! It's already open, and you are really, truly, OUT of gas. I did it on a regular basis :-)

    Regards,
    -wdb
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hey you guys that were in philly, the 2 guys that came down with me (scott and frank) both have bugs. A '67 and a '70 convertible. They actually do outstanding in auto-x all things considered! Both their cars are in mint condidition too. Scott bought a WRX though to compliment his bug :) And Frankie was drooling over the 2002 OB Sport 5-speed @ the dealer yesterday.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    wdb- Mine was also a sunroof! It was cream colored, and it had 40 hp. Top speed was 72 mph, which you could do all day. Speed in gears 1st. (15), 2nd. (30), 3rd. (45), and 4th. (72).

    This was the only car I've ever flipped—thanks to that notorious swing-arm rear suspension. I put one of those "Camber Compensators" on it, to no avail.

    Boy, the stories/adventures I could tell... but I won't ;-{)

    Bob
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    My dad had three bugs, a 57', a 58', and a 64'. Back when he had the 57' (and the reason he had to get a 58') he encountered some black ice in the NW Olympia area (about 70 miles south of Seattle). He over-corrected and ended up flipping the bug on its roof. His best bud was in the front seat and the girls they were dating were in the rear. The guys got out but the girls were trapped in the rear. My dad tried to pull out his girl (his first date w/her) through the rear window when it sooned dawned on him that the opening was too small. Before he tried to go through the side window he was pulling on the girls leg when it came off in his hand. You could imagine his horror, first having a detached leg and secondly finding out it was wooden!! My sister and I always beg my dad to tell this story when we have friends visiting. :-)

    Stephen
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The early VW's had tiny oval rear windows. The very first ones were even split in two.

    After what I put that vehicle through, it's a miracle I'm still alive. I remember once being caught in a blizzard. Myself and an earth mover plow were the only vehicles on the road. I was headed for a friend's house out in the country, and the snow was deep and drifting. I made it about 10 miles to my buddies house, by keeping it in 1st. gear and never stopping. If I had stopped, I would have never gotten going again. It was pretty scary.

    I spent the night there, and the next day, after the plows had made it through, there were drifts 10' high on the sides of the road. Thinking back, it was a pretty stupid thing to do. So much for AWD...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rolled over? Wow...and lived to tell about it.

    Not as wild as that leg story, though. ;-) Reminds me of Duece Bigalow, Male Gigalo.

    At least they drove the wheels where the weight was, and they bad boxer engines. Plus, loads of character. No wonder there are lots of ex-Beetle owners here.

    -juice
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Juice, they had the weight over the drive wheels, quite right -- which is why they would not turn to save their butts on a snow-covered road :-) I drove them for one reason, and that was that they were cheap to own. They were thrifty on fuel plus, thanks to your compatriots in Brazil, parts for Beetles were less expensive even than parts for American cars.

    One day though, as I was replacing yet another muffler on our 1966 Beetle, I looked at the utterly rotted out rockers (which were also the heater ducts and the swing axles and the 6-volt battery that was about to fall through the floor, and I just decided I'd had enough. I've not owned another Volkswagen since, which is not saying anything about their subsequent cars -- only that I have a preconception about them. Just like paisan does with Fords ;-)

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, Brazil was making them up to 1986. Mexico had even the Brazilians beat, though.

    So, no Audi S8 for you then, eh? ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The folks in Oz-land will shortly be getting a new Impreza RV—our OBS, but with a 2.0L engine and a dual-range manual tranny.

    Interesting to note, this vehicle was shown recently at an Aussie Auto Show using the "Outback Sport" name. After extensive studies, Subaru of Australia determined that there was too much confusion with the Legacy-based Outback, hence the "RV" name.

    I have to agree. I have long thought that the name, "Outback Sport," must be a marketing nightmare for SOA. Most people associate the Outback as being a derivative of the Legacy line, now only to be also confronted with a model derived from the Impreza line too. It's confusing at best, and lazy marketing at its worst, IMHO.

    I think SOA would be well advised to follow the Aussies lead here.

    Bob

    http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_SUB/doc_sub0105251/article.html
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Even the Aussies' OBS gets a low range?

    Patti- Please make FHI give us dual-range tranny's in all of our SUW's!

    Personally, I like the OB Sport name over RV. When I hear RV, I think of those monster motor homes.

    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - the brochures are really confusing. The Outback Sport falls under the Outback brochure, and not the Impreza line. Truly odd.

    RV, I dunno. Maybe just Impreza Sport.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I can see why SOA is trying to cash in on the "Outback" name recognition, but trying to link two completely different vehicles with the same name is really stretching credibility past the breaking point, IMO.

    I like "RV" (recreational vehicle). It fits in nicely with "RS" and "TS."

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    they should just "officially" shorten the name from "Outback Sport" to "OBS," as we do on this Edmunds forum? The marketing link with the Outback will be retained, yet "OBS" (also) fits in nicely with "RS" and "TS."

    Bob
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