Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I've rambled on before about concerns wrt Subie fuel economy. I think the difference really is AWD which takes a 1-2mpg compared to FWD. If you compare FE of a n/a Impreza with the AWD Matrix for example, it's a dead heat, and the Matrix feels smaller in the back seat. The FWD jetta wagon is comparable in size but only gets the same city FE. It does better on the highway, likely due to the 6th gear and the fact that highway mileage tends to hurt more with the AWD.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    ...that all 2010 Tribecas will be 7-passenger models. I thought this might happen with the roomier 2010 Outback.

    http://www.cars101.com/

    Bob
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    I think that is a sign Tribeca will survive at least one more year... :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The new Outback is actually a tad shorter than the outgoing one. Wheelbase is longer, but overall length is down.

    It is wider and taller, though.

    The Clubman is interesting but a few turn-offs for me:

    * it's pricey ($$)
    * options are even more pricey ($$$)
    * I don't like center-mounted gauges, and you have get GPS to move it ($$$$)
    * even the base model wants premium fuel

    I actually thought about a Cooper convertible but an S was in a whole other price league compared to the Miata, especially the new one.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    A new factory is being built in Japan, which will build these environmentally-friendly engines. Should be up and running sometime in 2010.

    http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2320468/

    My guess is that we will finally see DI employed with these new engines.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's see a 2.0l with DI that makes about 150-160hp or so for the base Impreza and Outback Sport.

    For once come out with a technology at an affordable price level.

    I'll be wrong, watch, it'll come on the $30k plus models first.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If we're lucky, we may see some of this stuff.

    http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20090522_169812.html

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,707
    When, again, should we expect the new models at dealers? It should be pretty soon now, right?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've heard sometime in June for Legacy, and sometime in July for the Outback. My guess is towards the end of those months. Expect about a month to lapse between the two hitting showrooms.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    As you imply, I bet some of the stuff will not make it over the pond.

    Check out the window rain guards, the mirror covers with the turn signal light, and the black mesh grille.

    I prefer our roof rack and more built-in Navigation system, though.
  • wmarton64wmarton64 Member Posts: 12
    It really doesn't matter anyway because the third row in the Tribeca is useless...and this is coming from one of their sales persons who was showing me the seven seat model last Friday. When I asked about the seven passenger Tribeca, the first thing he asked was "How old are your kids?" As soon as I said pre-teens, he said that the Tribeca would be too small and after sitting in it with my 11-year old, he is absolutely right. I really wanted to stay in the Subaru family, but they really don't have a vehicle that can carry five+ people comfortably. Without a significant re-design that adds a couple of inches to the wheelbase and a bit more interior room, the Tribeca will probably end up being discontinued. To give you an idea of how the Tribeca stacks up against the competition, he is a comparison with the Toyota Highlander's specs (Tribeca is listed first followed by the Highlander):

    Length: 191.5" vs. 188.4"
    Width: 73.9" vs 75.2"
    Height: 66.4" vs 69.3"
    Wheelbase: 108.2" vs 109.8"

    Rear Hip Room: 54.6" vs. 56.5"
    Rear Shoulder Room: 57.5" vs 59.5"
    Rear Headroom: 38.2" vs 40.1"
    Rear Legroom: 34.3" vs 38.3"

    The Tribeca is actually a pretty long vehicle (it's even longer than a Honda Pilot), but has a shorter wheelbase than its competition and is not as wide. That has absoultely killed it in the marketplace vis-a-vis its main rivals and even against other vehicles in the Subaru family.

    wilbur
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Plus they went small just as the market was upsizing, so it seems even smaller.
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Have the 7 passenger model. The 6 and 7 year old grand kids still fit. The Tribeca should have at least a 2" wheelbase extension with a 20 gallon gas tank. We "run it" as a 5 passenger 99% of the time. But sure like the car otherwise.

    MNSteve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bingo, and the gas tank is a biggie for someone like me.

    I think it's ridiculous that the Forester has the same size gas tank as the Tribeca, seriously, why is that?

    My minivan has a 21 gallon tank and I don't worry about gas until 400+ miles. That's how it should be.

    With 16.9 gallons, the low fuel light comes on with 2.3 gallons left, so that's only 14.6 gallons in normal use. In city driving you may need to get gas every 250 miles.

    Far too often.
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Yup, have to fill the tank about every 250 miles over all.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    I think it's ridiculous that the Forester has the same size gas tank as the Tribeca, seriously, why is that?

    The Tribeca is a slightly stretched Legacy/Outback with minimal changes to the basic chassis. Hence the same gas tank. Starting over was the only way to remedy the problem. I doubt that the Tribeca will continue very long now that there is a new larger Outback.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Remember Forester is based on Impreza, not Legacy - but it doesn't matter because Impreza's tank is the same as Legacy's (so it seems). Looks like Legacy's (the old one) tank is simply too small for the car's size and mileage - especially considering thirsty GT trims.

    I have same problem with my STI. It's not gas mileage that bothers me, it is the range between gas stations that trully sucks. :(

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    It's not gas mileage that bothers me, it is the range between gas stations that trully sucks.

    And of course it is the same problem with my 2005 3.0R Outback. But I'm not going to even look at a new one with a bigger tank since mine now has all of 18,000miles. :D
  • wmarton64wmarton64 Member Posts: 12
    The Tribeca is a slightly stretched Legacy/Outback with minimal changes to the basic chassis. Hence the same gas tank. Starting over was the only way to remedy the problem. I doubt that the Tribeca will continue very long now that there is a new larger Outback.

    I think that it would be a mistake for Subaru to give up on a true 5+ person hauler. Last year, the new Forester cannibalized Outback sales. With the larger Outback, the Tribeca is indeed doomed, but Subaru would still lack a 5+ person hauler if they totally drop the Tribeca concept. Subaru needs to offer families something larger to totally keep them in the Subaru fold, otherwise, it's off to Minivan land for families that need a larger vehicle. A stretched Outback based on the Forester design (i.e., taller and boxier) could be a worthy competitor to the Honda Pilots, Highlanders, etc. of the world.

    wilbur
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    What if...

    What if the vehicle that replaces the current Tribeca (assuming there will be one) were to be a long-wheelbase (~ 113-115") Outback variant, with 3-row seating? I think the larger and taller body style of the new Outback would lend itself to such a conversion. Think Chevy Tahoe/Suburban type of relationship, but smaller of course. Maybe call it the Maxback. :)

    Possibly even add two small rear-opening doors like those found on extended cab pickups (to make it a 6-door vehicle) in order to help access the third-row seats? I would also use the larger 18" wheels found on the Tribeca, but shod with 245/65 tires.

    From a production standpoint it would certainly make sense, as most of the Outback's parts would be shared. That can't be said of the current Tribeca. Unlike the JDM Forester-based 7-passenger Exiga, it could easily be built in Indiana.

    If such a vehicle were to be built, it could also serve as the basis for a larger next-gen Baja, if Subaru should decide to re-enter that market (which I hope they do).

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...Legacy wagon is gone gone for 2010? Just the Outback remains?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Correct.

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    poop.

    Any on-the-road reviews of the OB? Can't find anything but a slew of sedan "quick-drives." All the photos are the same, so they all obviously attended the same press event and were handed a DVD with pics.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Have you been to NASIOC? There's a bunch there.

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    not much, but I did see that the OB launch happens a month after the Legover. Still sifting through all the mess, with an unclemat on top.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I hate that guy. In fact, I've got him blocked so I don't see his posts.

    Loosh, you ought to head on down to a dealer, as most now have plenty of new Outbacks in stock. Take one out for a test drive and see for yourself. They are much roomier inside than before, yet are an inch shorter than the outgoing model.

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I will. Hoping for decent handling. our 04 FXT suffered a little in that arena. I won't expect aWRX chassis of course, but I do hope it isn't a wallowy mess like this Camry.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    2.5 CVT Driving Impressions:

    A little difficult to assess, given the high-density area of the dealer. Nonetheless, here goes....

    I may, just may, be tempted to walk away from a manual with this rig. Power delivery is smooth and assured, as the 2.5 has enough oomph to get the car up into the 70's from a stop well enough and with no drama.

    Steering is quick, direct, and typically heavy, all positive Subaru attributes which have not been diluted.

    Suspension is poised and comfortable, no canyon carver to be sure, but still with the european feel we all appreciate in these cars. I did not have a chance to wring it out, this is simply based on a more or less sedate test drive. I did have it off road briefly, which is when I really noticed the composure- no porpoising or excessive side to side sway.

    I'd rather just have a wagon, I could do without the height, but there's little doubt this car will replace our current OB when the time comes; the thing is solid, seems to be well screwed together.

    Visually, it just.....is. No big whoop. 16" wheels look dinky on the uncladded example I saw. 17s look better, 17s with arch cladding best. I'd like to see 16s with cladding, since I have a set of SSRs lying around from the GF Impreza ;)

    edit: PS, may be old news to you all. Dealer said the diesel is coming as a manual-only Forester, no immediate idea when.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2009/17/c6939.html

    Might we (USA) also get a WRX with leather once again?

    Bob
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    gone since 08, or even earlier.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That was quick...

    I gotta get out and sample the same vehicle.

    Visually, I agree, the OB doesn't look quite as nice as the outgoing one, but I do like the Legacy. Bring back the Legacy wagon.

    Now I'm curious to sample the CVT since the Forester will get it.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    well I was driving right past the dealer, so I said what the hey.

    I was well impressed with the CVT. Don't know when it will be OB time, but I won't rule it out.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27596641&postcount=1

    New 2.5i grille can be seen here on this PDF.

    https://www.subaru.com/content/downloads/pdf/brochures/2010_full_lifebook.pdf

    It looks much like the current WRX/STI grille, but with a thin horizontal bar added. Also, 2010 Tribeca here too, but with little new info.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm disappointed the 6MT doesn't match the mileage of the CVT.

    In fact I think it's closer to the mileage on the H6 5EAT than it is to the efficient CVT.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I suspect one of the reasons the CVT gets better mileage is that there is little or no engine braking. Anyone who's driven an old 50s- 60s-era Saab 2-stroke (or 2-stroke motorcycle) will know what I'm talking about.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The big news here is the SE package on the Impreza. For $500 you get a moonroof, the AWP, and foglights. Helloooo bargain!

    I'm not crazy about that grille - it looks like a moustache.

    To be honest, that's not the problem. It's the bumper. Below the grille the bumper still caves in. It should just run straight across. Simple fix.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, I do know the feeling. I owned a Honda Aero 125cc scooter, which was a 2 stroke. It would basically coast forever!
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    A conventional automatic coasts ok-- better than a manual. But I do agree, it's probably impactful.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    That's what a clutch is for - an auto doesn't coast better than an MT with the clutch depressed. I coast down all long hills and my computer shows great FE when I do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is I much prefer our Subaru automatic's response and quick shifting, but that's an area where the Toyota automatic does MUCH better.

    Our Sienna will coast forever. It just puts the trans in 5th (overdrive) and shuts off fuel completely. Mileage pegs the trip computer at 99mpg instantly.

    With the Forester you let off the gas and you get slight engine braking, even on the highway, even down hill. Part of that is probably the shorter gearing (4th), but I'm guessing the extra drag from the AWD is hurting here - it won't coast half as far.

    Wonder how the CVT does?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    For $500 you get a moonroof, the AWP, and foglights. Helloooo bargain!

    Well, it's $500 OVER the price of a Premium, which last year had all the items mentioned. Which leads to the question, how is the "Premium" premium over the base model now? I guess it still has alloys instead of wheel covers? If that's it, the extra $1000 it costs vs the base model is looking like less of a bargain than it was for '09.

    Good ol' Sube, it is always so quirky when it comes to feature packaging. If I pay $25 grand for a WRX, all I get for a stereo is the same one the folks paying $179/month get in the base model Impreza. Which is not to say that the WRX is a bad deal at $25 grand, but as a big fan of the 10-speaker factory stereo Subaru is offering in the Imprezas, I would want that if I were buying a WRX.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Well, it's $500 OVER the price of a Premium, which last year had all the items mentioned.

    The price of '10 Premium was lowered $1000, but I guess it's also sans moonroof and fog lights. In addition, I don't think the '09 Premium has AWP.

    So, if I'm looking at this correctly, a comparably equipped '10 Premium (vs. '09 Premium) is $500 cheaper, plus you get the AWP package.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think you're right Dave.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess if you don't want a moonroof you may pass, but nearly everyone is going to jump on that $500 deal.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    The Impreza was originally off my list due to the lack of a moonroof, then for the lack of AWP. Looks like the '10 Impreza Premium SE is now on my list ... along with '10 Outback and '10 Forester.

    My as well throw the '10 Legacy in mix. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You must have a pretty big price spread. Aren't they about $10 grand apart?
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    I realize the diesel discussion was some time ago but I'm planning the replacement of the 00 GT wagon so.. Any rumors of the when the diesel will make it to the Outback? (Forester 2010 diesel, I already know.)

    N.B. To an enginerd, "plan" means >2 years.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hard to say Mike. It's coming, but as to when and which models? I'm guessing we'll see it here within 2 years, and probably offered on the Forester and/or Outback.

    Bob
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    That's probably 2 good guesses, although if Subaru isn't planning to get into the hybrid market then they might be well advised to follow VW's lead with the Passat and get a diesel Legacy out there.

    *Not* an expensive diesel either. Definitely a Passat TDI, not a 335d. :)
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