Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So move the beam!

    I mean, for a moonroof installed at the factory, and which they can charge $1000 for, it doesn't seem like too much to ask.

    Adler & Mandell removed mine and installed a new brace, all included in the base price of the moonroof ($300).

    Why can't Subaru do without that beam in that exact location? Volvo and Mercedes offer moonroofs, are they less safe?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    it's a ridgity issue.

    Yep they could re-design the car, and make it just as ridgid, but you'd probably pay more than $1000 for that added luxury.

    The WRX is meant to be a sports car, not a luxo mobile. Buy a legacy if you want luxo! :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    IMHO it should have been designed with rigidity AND a moonroof option in mind. It's a major oversight, given that the same people that tend to like sporty cars also like a moonroof.

    Lots and lots of sports cars have a moonroof standard. Even Honda, which tends to offer little content, puts a moonroof in their sportiest models.

    More importantly - Foresters have had the same beam (from B-pillar to B-pillar) all along, and you've seen that gaping hole in the roof.

    -juice

    PS You can tell I'm a moonroof fan. All our cars have an open view to the sky.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Doesn't need to be as ridgid as the WRX! :) I too am a moonroof fan, but rather have performance over form.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not necessarily. The Forester is rated to tow 2000 pounds, while the WRX doesn't have to tow at all.

    Also, crash protection is more important in a vehicle that is far more likely to be carrying children.

    I agree with most of what you are saying, but I just don't think we should be forced to choose between the two when everybody and their mother offers both.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Everyone else costs more $. You get what you pay for. You can't get porsche performance from hyundai pricing! Ridgity isn't a requirement for safety, for handling flex is bad, for off-roading flex is good. All depends on what you want it for.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593252895&tc=photo6467


    Check that out on E-bay. A convertible subaru apparently from the factory.


    -mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Examples: Avalon, Passat, Legacy, Volvo S70, Camry, X5, M class, and RX are all IIHS Best Picks, yet all offer moonroof options.

    -juice

    PS Let's not turn this into a crash test debate, I'm just saying it is possible to have a structure and a moonroof option
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I bet that's an aftermarket conversion. Unless it was a concept.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They didn't make the WRX ridgid for safety reasons. crumple zones take care of the safety factor. it's stiff for performance reasons.

    Tell me those cars above can out handle the wrx! :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Got me! :oO

    But I recall a C&D article of the best handling cars over and under $30 grand, and the Prelude and M3 took top honors.

    Both of those offer a wonderful view to the sky. And the Prelude is definitely right on the WRX's target price and demographic.

    -juice

    Edit: PS A moonroof is standard on even the base Prelude
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It isn't even gonna be made anymore IIRC. Also Honda has a lot more $ to invest in R&D than subaru and try to have a lude outhandle a wrx in the rain!

    -mike

    PS: this week has been dead here at work. I guess everyone is on vacation.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In the rain, absolutely, got me again!

    But it's possible to build a fine handler with a view of a full moon. Yes, it costs money, but moonroof options are pricey (and profitable), and the previous RS had one.

    They had the funds for side air bags and a 6 CD changer, why not a sun or moonroof? I'd delete the fake aluminum trim, too.

    -juice
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I'm sure their marketing people based equipt. on what their research said would appeal to the majority of the customers in their target demographic.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    All the serious people about the RS actually complained about how the moonroof caused the vehicle to be weaker than had it just had a regular roof. Also there isn't any R&D $ involved in a 6 cd changer, and fake aluminum trim. The side airbags you might have some decent R&D for.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I know, and that's what surprises me, tincup.

    Oh well, I'm not shopping for one. Maybe I'd get a wagon if it were available when I shopped for the Forester, but then the wife would need a bigger car to fill that gap.

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    with my heated seats and mirrors rant! Now the heated seats and mirrors have all the caps over where the buttons are located for the Canadian models. Ok...come on Patti....why did SOA short-change it's stateside market? I mean, not even offered as options. I fail to see where (as options) it would increase the pricepoint of the WRX. I have yet to get a decent response back from SOA except for "thanks for the suggestions" and "we take great efforts in listening to our customers". Man, I hate this type of response, like...pacify me, pacify me!
    BTW, I like moonroofs but rather have the rigidity now that I've experienced my WRX.

    Stephen
    (heatless in Seattle)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    LOL! My sentiments exactly.

    Up until this year, all RS models had a hole in the roof. Now the top-of-the-line WRX can't even get one as an option! IMO, someone really dropped the ball.

    As a side note: I stopped by a Jeep store the other day to check out the inventory of Libertys. One had a factory moonroof at $700.00. There was another, just two cars away, with an aftermarket moonroof costing $1,495.00! Can you believe that?

    Bob
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    I wonder if they could put a decent sized one in if they made it retract out over the top of the roof instead of inside? I beleive that's what the Prelude and some 2-seater coupes do.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    They are called spoiler type sun/moon roofs. They would still have to remove some of the bracing, but I'm certain the structural integrity could still be maintained with only a slight bit of work. I saw the modifications done on Rufus when my moon roof was installed and I'm convinced it's probably stronger than before.

    Ross
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Finally some support. Thanks, Bob.

    Autoweek said of the first 4000 or so WRX buyers, about 1000 used the free SCCA membership voucher.

    OK, now, think about that for a second. That means that 75% did not, a huge majority. Not everyone races their WRX. If they aren't driving at the limit (i.e. on a track), why not offer a moonroof to this majority?

    Bob: that aftermarket roof just had a huge markup. I'm sure they'd deal down to about $800-1000 for the final cost. Profit padding, big time.

    Not a squeek or leak out of mine in 2 years.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    quote: Up until this year, all RS models had a hole in the roof. Now the top-of-the-line WRX can't even get one as an option! IMO, someone really dropped the ball.

    Quite the contrary, someone had their head screwed on straight when they DIDN'T allow the sunroof to ruin an otherwise great sportcoupe / sportwagon.

    If I had a dollar everytime my sunroof creaked entering / exiting driveways (while fully shut, mind you) I'd have a WRX in my garage too.

    -Colin
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Hey Patti: can one of those ~3000 WRX owners transfer their SCCA membership to me?

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, so design one that doesn't creak. Most designs don't.

    -juice
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    in my moon roof despite driving roads that would have curled my hair if I had any. :~)

    Ross
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Not that I know for sure, but if you get your dealer to give you a certificate, and plug in another subaru VIN, you generally can get a free SCCA membership ;)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I guess there are some things you and I will never agree on, sunroofs being one. We can still be friends though... ;)

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Okay, I'll add my two cents :-)

    I too find it surprising that SOA didn't opt to include the moon roof as an option for the WRX. However, even if the structural support beams were moved, there would still be some compromise to rigidity due to having a hole in the roof. More importantly, a moon roof not only adds weight but also adds it in the very worst place possible from a handling perspective. Still, my guess is that a moon roof will be an option on the MY-03s.

    -Frank P.
  • elanjeffelanjeff Member Posts: 3
    The membership forms are available on the web.

    http://www.imprezawrx.com/news/Subaru_New_Page.pdf


    Picking up my WRX on Friday!

    As for sunroofs, I don't mind the lack, but anyone who claims that a car needs a roof to handle well can take a ride in my '66 Lotus Elan - one of the best handling cars ever and a wide-open convertible. :)

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just about every other brand in this world seems to have figured out a solution for a moonroof. I think Subaru is also capable of doing so for the Impreza lineup.

    As I said earlier—make it an option. If you don't want one, you don't have to buy it.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Somebody over in the ML forum said they just drove the new Mercedes Coupe 6-speed, and it cost $27K. That's Subie country.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jeff: wanna swap keys for a Miata for a week?

    Surely, open cars can handle if designed from the get-go.

    Bob: the base price is just under $25k, remember? I don't see it competing very directly with any Subies, though.

    -juice
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,755
    rsholland, can you tell me where that forum is (and the full title of the discussion)? i'm curious. thanks.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    rjlim "Mercedes-Benz M-class" Jul 18, 2001 12:03pm

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I remember. I do think it will compete "indirectly," much like an Acura RSX does. It's just one more new and interesting car in the same price range as many Subies. So, that fact alone will draw attention. The fact that it's a Benz doesn't hurt either.

    Bob
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    For more information about the new '02 C230K coupe, you may want to visit the Mercedes-Benz C230K coupe discussion topic.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, there is some price overlap, but I think the Benz kind of picks up where the WRX leaves off. I do think the WRX would be most likely cross shopped with one (among Subies), because it is a sporting model.

    I really liked it. That moonroof is a must - very, very nice. It's pricey but without it there is nothing to distinguish the car (except badges, which I'm not into).

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over in an RSX forum. Interesting to say the least...

    Bob

    http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/cars/cars.html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting, indeed, but some are just PhotoChop.

    Ironically, the RSX photo looks most doctored. You can see where it changes from sharp to fuzzy - on the rear door.

    That Mitsu will compete directly with the Forester.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The RSX 4-door does show signs of someone using Adobe Photoshop—and who's not very good with the program. It's possible whoever did the retouching was simply trying to clarify a poor photograph, or was indeed trying to produce a hoax.

    Unfortunately, many times "spy" photos are of a very poor quality. So somebody who has Photoshop will try to "improve" the image, with the final result looking very phony. Often the graphic artist will try to remove body camouflage, and create what they think it looks like. It doesn't mean the photo is a hoax, just a poor retouching job.

    My guess is the others are pretty accurate. I know the Benz and Camry photos are accurate. I suspect the '03 Accord is accurate too. The profile shot could be a rendering (and not a photo of an actual car) from the Honda design studio.

    Bob
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    If you'll also notice, the picture has been flipped. The tail pipe, along with the direction of the rear windshield wiper, is on the wrong side of the car. And if you can make out the indentation where the RSX logo would be, you can see that it's read backwards and on the wrong side of the car.

    Furthermore, if you look at the other "spy" pictures, they all seem to be fake. For example, look at the horrible spy pic of the RX300. You can clearly tell that it's a current model RX300.

    Besides, the window says "Welcome to Adobe GoLive4"---what does that tell you? (hint: it's not a website with tutorials on how to use Adobe)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I don't know about the Accord picture. It looks exactly like the upcoming Nissan Altima.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Your eyes, or screen, are better than mine. I can't seen any of that stuff you mentioned about the RSX. The RX300 looks new to me, and as to the Accord looking like the new Altima—no surprise. The Japanese are famous for copying one anothers designs.

    As to the "Welcome to Adobe GoLive4" reference, it tells me what web layout program was used to create the site, and whoever created it didn't change the title when he saved it. If I'm not mistaken, the "Welcome to Adobe GoLive4" is a default title. The guy is clearly not a Web Master.

    Bob
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    FYI - Out of the two companies mentioned above, I know one (I'd prefer not to say which) with a longer warranty that fights with customers on claims on a constant basis. It keeps their C. S. people jumping because they are denying warranty claims on a regular basis (citing abuse, lack of "proper" maintenance, etc.). I don't expect them to be continuing with this warranty for long.

    I'm not sure what Subaru's plan is related to extending the warranty period. I know that they do a lot of industry studies, so we'll just have to keep an eye on it.

    Patti
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tell you what - as a marketing tool, it has worked wonders for Hyundai. Despite having fewer dealers than Subaru, they're outselling them big time. And that is despite an awful (and earned) reputation for reliability.

    -juice
  • FrankMcFrankMc Member Posts: 228
    I was reading some posts by some of the car salesmen over in Smart Shoppers, and the Korean cars (Kia, Hyundai etc) have a finance arm that has looser standards than the more traditional makes. This allows some people that are having trouble getting a loan for a new car to qualify to buy a Hyundai. This is another way to increase sales (I don't know what it does to profitability if the default rate is high on these loans)

    Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I believe it, but they've probably been doing that for a long time. The warranty thing has been for the last year or so, and sales surged upwards. I think they gained the most market share.

    There may be a backlash if the word-of-mouth is bad, if they are not honoring warranty claims.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think patti was referring to Isuzu actually. Often they don't cover a warranty on people who blatantly modify their trucks (common on Isuzus) and then wreck something. I don't blame them, I mean if you go and install like a 6" lift and 35" tires, then turn around and break your axle or T-case, you can't expect Isuzu to cover it.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case, I agree with Isuzu.

    Hyundai has a lot of disclaimers too, though. The 10 years only applies to the original owner, and if it's a work vehicle the warranty is entirely void.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Isuzu's 10/120K is only on the original owner and immediate family members. Most all warranties (I think even the SOA one) says that the vehicle can't be used as a work vehicle or else the warranty is void.

    -mike
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