Updating vehicles has beome a marketing necessity. Look at the Toyota Rav4 as a prime example, sales have doubled over the same period from last year. Today in the auto business, if you do not have new product coming out every 3-4 years you will lose sales and market share you may never recover. With improvements in technology in vehicles, along with the public's demand for new features and changing tastes in styling, it becomes harder to market the same vehicle for any prolonged period of time.
Just got this tread from the I-Club. Glenn Wallace (New Impreza.com) is back home in Australia for a visit, and picked up these tidbits, the most interesting being that the WRX may(?) get a 6-speed standard!
I understand the economics of it all, but I can't be alone in this opinion, I actually look for models that don't change very often so that, when I'm ready to sell/trade-in, it still looks like the current design. Anyone else? I would never buy a Honda right now for exactly that reason.
are on a 5-year product cycle, including Honda (Honda used to be on a 4-year cycle, but found that to be too soon, and probably too expensive too). The expensive brands may be on a 6-year or longer cycle, but not the mainstream brands.
They may make minor updates every year or so, but that's about it. Even when they do make a major change—and this is especially true of Honda—the new model closely resembles the outgoing model; witness the new CRV as a perfect example of that sort of change.
which usually works out great for her, but, I only buy cars and I get a sinking feeling when my car isn't "current" (so don't ask me why I'm still driving a 1994 Legacy Turbo - I guess it's because of the B4 "carrot" being dangled in front of me and financial restrictions). I almost feel cheated when (even minor - I notice even slight revisions to hoodlines/headlights from great distances, just ask my wife, who can't stand it when I point them out) revisions come out. I have more loyalty to the brands that stay the same longer. Suburban's come to mind, and my Trooper is still current after almost 4 years. I understand what everybody is saying, I'm just offering my opinion. Also, I think a great deal of my problem with not having the "current" model has to do with me being petty/materialistic/obsessive compulsive to some degree, but as hard as I try not to, I still seem to feel that way. Let's put it this way, I think there is a group of people who feel the same way I do, and some manufacturer out there could market themselves that way and make some money. "Hey, we won't change this design for 7 years!"
it's a combination of the ever-changing technology and constantly increasing market pressure that's the driving force here. Only tiny niche players, like Morgan or Roll Royce can resist change for long periods—and even they are now (finally) being forced to change too.
Check out the sales of vehicles that don't change like the Trooper. Unfortunately, there are not enough people like you to make it economically feasible for any one manufacturer to do what you propose.
When is the changeover supposed to occur? And, more importantly, why is Land Rover moving out of Landover MD in the first place? BTW, I been to the Landover headquarters a few times (just to check it out). It's a pretty neat place. There were always some very "interesting" vehicles in the parking lot.
Thanks for the good wishes. Land Rover, Jaguar, and Aston Martin are joining together is a single marketing entity in the US. They are consolidating product support and other functions together in Mahwah to improve communications and merge shared functions under one roof. The changeover will be taking place early next year with June 30th as the target for completion.
I'm not a big Ford fan, but I gotta say...the baby Jag is drop-dead gorgeous in person. The photos don't do it justice. I saw one this weekend and I think my heart skipped a beat. It was black on black, probably sport package. You should ask for one of those! :-)
I like the current Subaru logo. Remember, Subaru was huge in the 80s, more successful than they are now, so there is brand equity in the familiar name and logo. Look at what happened to Nissan when they dropped the well known Datsun name. And it didn't help Olds to change logos, either. I say leave the logo alone and focus on product. Besides, the pink bunny looks like the WRX is sponsored by Playboy!
Which brings us to the Legacy. Yes, it's been ignored, but Subaru had no choice. They were gonna go bankrupt, and like it or not, the Outback is the sole reason they didn't. It saved Subaru, by itself. Now that they have some cash, established niche markets, they can afford to build cars like the WRX and hopefully a Blitzen, but we have the Outback to thank for that.
It's interesting to note that luxury cars tend to have longer life cycles. The A4 lasted 7 years, though updates along the way kept it current.
and corporate identity updates are always done with extreme caution. There is always great risk of doing more harm than good. Having said that, a properly managed and executed ID upgrade can also do wonders for a corporation, and its image.
To me, since Subaru is moving a bit up market, this seems like the perfect time to move forward with something like this.
Also, I'm not suggesting throwing everything out, and starting from scratch. I'm saying build upon the existing mark (logo) and make that established equity work for you.
Do you remember when Esso evolved into Exxon? It's an evolutionary change, not a radical one. Juice, if you picked up any of those BMW brochures from the autocross event, there is a page that shows the evolution of the BMW logo over the years. It starts from the very first BMW logo, and shows four or five evolutions right up to the current one. That's what I'm talking about.
Are they? The VDC hasn't been the sale success they hoped for. The WRX has, but it's not upscale, really. In fact, it succeeded because of its relatively low price point.
Funny you mention Esso, because in Brazil they still use the old name. Exxon is harder to pronounce.
takes years. Subaru is not going to do it overnight. Look at Volvos from the 1960's. They were pretty much nothing more than utilitarian "transportation tools." Hardly to be considered luxurious in any sense of the word. Look at Volvo today. It's got a luxury image, but it took years for them to cultivate that. Same will happen with Subaru.
Could be, but Volvo is tiny. To go upscale would mean to decrease sales. That's tough in today's global economy, especially when Subaru has to sell tiny cars in Asia and Europe.
I'd consider a VDC sedan for my wife if it were close to $25k. At $30k, well, to be honest I'm not sure I'd spend that much for any car.
I just don't know if Subaru can maintain their volumes if they venture upscale. It takes a lot of resources to do that, at the expense of your basic lineup. The VW Passat W8 looks great, but look how old the Golf seems now. Where is the Beetle drop top? Why no 4Motion Golf? AWD Jetta wagon? Lots of gaps in the lineup, and a $40k car in tiny volumes in their place.
I think it would be a mistake to target BMW. Everyone else is. Way too much competition at that price level. Way too mainstream nowadays.
Subaru is better off keeping its AWD wagon niche, with perhaps a little more spice. Crossovers were invented by them and that's what they should focus on. They need to stay quirky, off center, niche oriented.
Don't forget, their traditional niches are under attack. There will be a dozen import wagons putting pressure that didn't exist before, so I think value will play a huge role in their survival.
Why it is Exxon in USA and ESSO, I think, everywhere else? Here's my sick answer, which may very well be THE answer. It's how it sounds - "ESSO". Then, when it was promounced, consumers don't think of it as anything else but ESSO petroleum. Today, say ESSO and what comes to mind?
As for the LOGO, I like it the way it is. Well, they might want to enhance it visually (short of enlarging it).
I'll try to be more specific. The convert-a-cab on the BRAT would be a good example. They should invest on putting that into production.
No WRX coupe, so make an SVX coupe. Give it the edgy, sharp styling people wanted in the WRX and did not get. Keep mechanicals the same so price is similar - under $25k. The quirk would be a canopy similar to the old one, with even more glass, that you could drive in the rain with windows open wide.
Then make a better looking Exiga. The 2nd row reversable seat would be a neat quirk. Kind of like the VW van, picnic table and all.
These type of quirks that aren't mainstream. The cars need character, not wood and leather steering wheels.
Yes, exactly my thinking. More doors that open wider, more windows, access panels, hidden storage compartments, convertability, multi-purpose uses for stuff, surprises inside and out.
- retractable cargo cover that can be attached to the rear gate to use as a canopy. - glove compartment that can be tiered or sectioned for (so-call) more organized storage. - detachable fog lights for utility use. - ok, picnic table (ala CR-V). - rearseat base 60/40 split (ala GT-B).
* a sliding cargo floor like the 9-5 wagon * ramp for loading cargo into the rear (both?) * fitted dog crate and/or harness * removable 2nd row seat for tail gate parties * folding 3rd row w/reverse face feature * adjustable suspension height/firmness * built-in air compressor and tire pressure sensor
Lots of the stuff could be offered as accessories. I love the fog light idea.
* cargo tie-downs & net, a la Saab 9-5 wagon, MB ML, and others
juice, re: adjustable suspension height/firmness
Has the technology improved since Subaru's last foray in the early 90's? paisan and others have found air suspensions expensive to maintain (mike replaced it in his XT6).
It's funny, because originally I had typed "manually adjustable" and later took out the "manually" part. I'm thinking maybe that would be better, but I purposely left that void for the engineers to sort out.
What about water spray injectors for the intercooler? They have them overseas.
What else could they add to the overhead console? A 2nd sunglasses holder for the wife. A video option for the Forester for the rear seat, or at least on the new big SUW.
Too much crap to break. I had the quirkiest subaru ever. And it was the quirky items (electric power steering pump, and air-suspension) that made the car fail in the long term test.
Again, I try to combine features of the two makes of car that I own, but I still think that the Legacy wagons could benefit from a sliding rear roof panel over the cargo area. The only car I've ever seen with this feature is the 1963-66 Studebaker Wagonaire. For a look see
The Wagonaire's roof was prone to leaking but the dying Studebaker lacked the R&D dollars to come up with a fix. I have to believe the technology is in place to make this feasible today. A very practical feature that would only add to the quirkiness that apparently attracts many people to Subaru.
I'll try to give this as rational an answer as I can. No one in my immediate family ever owned one, although an uncle had a '52 Commander, a neighbor had a '60 Lark and another neighbor had several pickups. I knew in the mid-90s that when I could get into the old car hobby I'd go for one of the early '60's compacts. Ford compacts were out: my first car was a '66 Mustang (bought in Myrtle Beach via Greensboro, NC) and I drove my dad's '62 Falcon a lot. They weren't that good as cars and prices for cars and parts have become insane - a 'Stang is a glorified Falcon after all.
My favorites from that time are the '59-63 Larks, '60-63 Plymouth Valiants/Dodge Lancers/Darts (the only Mopars I care for), '62-63 Rambler Americans (think "Third Rock from the Sun" car) and '61-62 Buick Specials/Skylarks. What can I say? I like sleeper grandma cars.
With Studebakers you get the "you don't see one of those every day" factor, plus cars and parts are relatively cheap and plentiful. Stude was forced to use a lot of basic chassis tooling over and over from the mid'50s until the end in '66 so there's a lot of interchangability. I think the Lark could have stood on its own against the Big Four compacts - and it did until '63, when people soured on the idea of owning a potential orphan car without dealer support (any admitted Peugeot owners care to chime in on this?).
Anyway I set out to find the best '59-63 Lark I could afford. This one fell into my lap a week before I got married; I leave it to you to figure out the rest of my logic ;-). My Stude is low on the aficionado's list, as it's (a) a sedan (b) a 6-cylinder (c) an automatic; people seldom covet it but it sure does send them on a nostalgia trip.
I see it as my way of preserving a bit of US industrial history while having a little fun in the process.
I knew that heated steering wheel would sneak onto the list. Should we add a heated shift knob and brake handle? ;-)
The cargo floor could roll out and make a ramp. With so many dog owners among us, it would be a neat little quirk to have. Seriously, that's the coolest, most quirky idea so far.
How about a removable, sliding roof for the new BRAT? It could bolt on like the ones Broncos used to have, but slide as well.
Ed: now that you have that camera, why not send me another pic of the Stude?
Studebaker made some fast cars but mine's not one of them; just a happy little grocery getter. Most people who've heard of Studes know of the hot supercharged Golden Hawk and the ageless Avanti. What few people know is that everyday Larks and Hawks were available with Avanti drivetrains in 1963-64. These Super Larks and Super Hawks (yes, that's what they were called) were legit 140 mph cars are are rare and valuable birds today. At the last two Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Races in Michigan, '63 and '64 Super Larks have embarrassed drivers of many better known contemporary muscle cars, including Corvettes and the famous Yenko Camaro. See, e.g., http://www.geocities.com/psmcdr/pictures02.html, http://stude.com/Ted/R2.jpg, and http://www.stude.com/Ted/drag.htm
The Lark logo is also eerily similar to that of Subaru's parent company, Fuji Heavy Industries.
juice: I took one better Stude snappy on Sunday - will try to download before tomorrow.
On autonews.com, there is a mention of an AWD Traviq being introduced at the Tokyo Motor Show.
Contrary to GM's hype quoted in that article, AWD by itself doesn't define the Subaru brand. Performance and high-quality engineering are just as crucial, and we won't find them in an Opel. It's just like the Saturn L flop: reskinning Opels won't fool anyone.
Thankfully, the WX-01 proves that Subaru is still innovative on its own.
about the Chevy Borrego? Is it gonna happen or no? I happen to like the idea of Chevy incorporating more Subie stuff into there lineup (I would hate the other-way-around). Supposedly it'll have a Subie AWD and a turboed 2.5L H4 at about 250 hp. I think it looks incredible, too. If there was one car that I would look at in getting instead of a WRX, it would be this...
I hear GM likes it too. They just don't like how expensive it would be to build. So, if it does make it into production, I would imagine GM will find a way to suck out some of the good stuff, leaving us with a shell of what the Borrego was originally.
My '86 GL part-time 4WD wagon had three-position manually adjustable rear shocks. And a dual-range 5-speed trans., metal front skid plate and an armored exhaust system. The front ride height could be raised a bit, but it took tools and a front-end alignment to do it the right way.
In the future, I wish they'd dump the intermittent rear wiper speed, heck, dump the rear wiper and give me front vent windows instead! And maybe a little heavier on the window tint - not everybody buying these lives in the cold, dark north.
I'm now the very happy owner of an '02 Forester. I got most of the features I wanted, but had to buy them in packages along with the mandatory standard features.
Maybe if it snows one day this winter, or next, I can try out my heated leather seats, wiper de-icer and heated mirrors.
Meanwhile, see you on the Chesapeake or at the beach!
Comments
Bob
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104866
Bob
Jim
They may make minor updates every year or so, but that's about it. Even when they do make a major change—and this is especially true of Honda—the new model closely resembles the outgoing model; witness the new CRV as a perfect example of that sort of change.
Bob
Jim
Bob
Bob
-mike
When is the changeover supposed to occur? And, more importantly, why is Land Rover moving out of Landover MD in the first place? BTW, I been to the Landover headquarters a few times (just to check it out). It's a pretty neat place. There were always some very "interesting" vehicles in the parking lot.
Bob
Bob
I like the current Subaru logo. Remember, Subaru was huge in the 80s, more successful than they are now, so there is brand equity in the familiar name and logo. Look at what happened to Nissan when they dropped the well known Datsun name. And it didn't help Olds to change logos, either. I say leave the logo alone and focus on product. Besides, the pink bunny looks like the WRX is sponsored by Playboy!
Which brings us to the Legacy. Yes, it's been ignored, but Subaru had no choice. They were gonna go bankrupt, and like it or not, the Outback is the sole reason they didn't. It saved Subaru, by itself. Now that they have some cash, established niche markets, they can afford to build cars like the WRX and hopefully a Blitzen, but we have the Outback to thank for that.
It's interesting to note that luxury cars tend to have longer life cycles. The A4 lasted 7 years, though updates along the way kept it current.
-juice
To me, since Subaru is moving a bit up market, this seems like the perfect time to move forward with something like this.
Also, I'm not suggesting throwing everything out, and starting from scratch. I'm saying build upon the existing mark (logo) and make that established equity work for you.
Do you remember when Esso evolved into Exxon? It's an evolutionary change, not a radical one. Juice, if you picked up any of those BMW brochures from the autocross event, there is a page that shows the evolution of the BMW logo over the years. It starts from the very first BMW logo, and shows four or five evolutions right up to the current one. That's what I'm talking about.
Bob
Funny you mention Esso, because in Brazil they still use the old name. Exxon is harder to pronounce.
-juice
Bob
I'd consider a VDC sedan for my wife if it were close to $25k. At $30k, well, to be honest I'm not sure I'd spend that much for any car.
-juice
Go check those BMW brochures; that's a better example of what I'm talking about.
Bob
I think it would be a mistake to target BMW. Everyone else is. Way too much competition at that price level. Way too mainstream nowadays.
Subaru is better off keeping its AWD wagon niche, with perhaps a little more spice. Crossovers were invented by them and that's what they should focus on. They need to stay quirky, off center, niche oriented.
Don't forget, their traditional niches are under attack. There will be a dozen import wagons putting pressure that didn't exist before, so I think value will play a huge role in their survival.
-juice
Here's my sick answer, which may very well be THE answer.
It's how it sounds - "ESSO".
Then, when it was promounced, consumers don't think of it as anything else but ESSO petroleum.
Today, say ESSO and what comes to mind?
As for the LOGO, I like it the way it is. Well, they might want to enhance it visually (short of enlarging it).
-Dave
No WRX coupe, so make an SVX coupe. Give it the edgy, sharp styling people wanted in the WRX and did not get. Keep mechanicals the same so price is similar - under $25k. The quirk would be a canopy similar to the old one, with even more glass, that you could drive in the rain with windows open wide.
Then make a better looking Exiga. The 2nd row reversable seat would be a neat quirk. Kind of like the VW van, picnic table and all.
These type of quirks that aren't mainstream. The cars need character, not wood and leather steering wheels.
-juice
Wasn't that mention somewhere in a SoA literature?
-Dave
-juice
- glove compartment that can be tiered or sectioned for (so-call) more organized storage.
- detachable fog lights for utility use.
- ok, picnic table (ala CR-V).
- rearseat base 60/40 split (ala GT-B).
-Dave
* ramp for loading cargo into the rear (both?)
* fitted dog crate and/or harness
* removable 2nd row seat for tail gate parties
* folding 3rd row w/reverse face feature
* adjustable suspension height/firmness
* built-in air compressor and tire pressure sensor
Lots of the stuff could be offered as accessories. I love the fog light idea.
-juice
juice, re:
adjustable suspension height/firmness
Has the technology improved since Subaru's last foray in the early 90's? paisan and others have found air suspensions expensive to maintain (mike replaced it in his XT6).
..Mike
..Mike
Good catch, though. ;-)
-juice
http://www.blizzardblade.com/
http://www.marketlaunchers.com/stanak.html
didn't hear from them. Guess it's in the trash.
-Dave
What about water spray injectors for the intercooler? They have them overseas.
What else could they add to the overhead console? A 2nd sunglasses holder for the wife. A video option for the Forester for the rear seat, or at least on the new big SUW.
-juice
I also like the sliding cargo floor from the Saab 9-5 wagon. I believe the BMW 5-Series wagon also offers this feature.
Hmmm... the sliding cargo floor is a feature found in up-market brands, so let's also add BMW's heated steering wheel to the list.
Bob
-mike
http://members.aol.com/landyacht9/cargo.html
The Wagonaire's roof was prone to leaking but the dying Studebaker lacked the R&D dollars to come up with a fix. I have to believe the technology is in place to make this feasible today. A very practical feature that would only add to the quirkiness that apparently attracts many people to Subaru.
Ed
Dennis
Thanks,
Patti
My favorites from that time are the '59-63 Larks, '60-63 Plymouth Valiants/Dodge Lancers/Darts (the only Mopars I care for), '62-63 Rambler Americans (think "Third Rock from the Sun" car) and '61-62 Buick Specials/Skylarks. What can I say? I like sleeper grandma cars.
With Studebakers you get the "you don't see one of those every day" factor, plus cars and parts are relatively cheap and plentiful. Stude was forced to use a lot of basic chassis tooling over and over from the mid'50s until the end in '66 so there's a lot of interchangability. I think the Lark could have stood on its own against the Big Four compacts - and it did until '63, when people soured on the idea of owning a potential orphan car without dealer support (any admitted Peugeot owners care to chime in on this?).
Anyway I set out to find the best '59-63 Lark I could afford. This one fell into my lap a week before I got married; I leave it to you to figure out the rest of my logic ;-). My Stude is low on the aficionado's list, as it's (a) a sedan (b) a 6-cylinder (c) an automatic; people seldom covet it but it sure does send them on a nostalgia trip.
I see it as my way of preserving a bit of US industrial history while having a little fun in the process.
Hope that helps,
Ed
The cargo floor could roll out and make a ramp. With so many dog owners among us, it would be a neat little quirk to have. Seriously, that's the coolest, most quirky idea so far.
How about a removable, sliding roof for the new BRAT? It could bolt on like the ones Broncos used to have, but slide as well.
Ed: now that you have that camera, why not send me another pic of the Stude?
-juice
Stephen
The Lark logo is also eerily similar to that of Subaru's parent company, Fuji Heavy Industries.
juice: I took one better Stude snappy on Sunday - will try to download before tomorrow.
Ed
Dennis
Ed
So, I guess we should assume that the new BRAT will also have a dual-range tranny...
If so, I also hope it make its way over to the Forester too.
Bob
Besides, how better to set yourself apart now that a whole sea of AWD wagons are being introduced?
-juice
Contrary to GM's hype quoted in that article, AWD by itself doesn't define the Subaru brand. Performance and high-quality engineering are just as crucial, and we won't find them in an Opel. It's just like the Saturn L flop: reskinning Opels won't fool anyone.
Thankfully, the WX-01 proves that Subaru is still innovative on its own.
I hear GM likes it too. They just don't like how expensive it would be to build. So, if it does make it into production, I would imagine GM will find a way to suck out some of the good stuff, leaving us with a shell of what the Borrego was originally.
Bob
-mike
In the future, I wish they'd dump the intermittent rear wiper speed, heck, dump the rear wiper and give me front vent windows instead! And maybe a little heavier on the window tint - not everybody buying these lives in the cold, dark north.
I'm now the very happy owner of an '02 Forester. I got most of the features I wanted, but had to buy them in packages along with the mandatory standard features.
Maybe if it snows one day this winter, or next, I can try out my heated leather seats, wiper de-icer and heated mirrors.
Meanwhile, see you on the Chesapeake or at the beach!
John