They just took the cover off.....looks like a "rally blue" colour.....unfortunately, looks like the bumpers/lower cladding is silver....I was just about to post that I liked the monochromatic look of the one in the pictures and hoped that they didn't go for the two-tone look again....hope the 2 tone doesn't extend to those racy new flares....can't see from the webcam...pic is obscured by subaru logo tower...
That would positively force me into a monotone version, whatever they call that. If the cladding looks like the Baja's, painted in a two-tone, I'd avoid it.
www.chicagoautoshow.com go to webcam, choose camera 3 and move to your right......takes 3-4 segements 'til you can see the subaru booth......mostly blocked by people now..they had the rear hatch open....also can see a picture on a monitor of a reddish-coloured one with dark cladding so bob is probably right. at least it appears that the 2-tone is limited to the lower cladding & doesn't even arc over the wheels and thankfully not on the flares as well...
They could follow Isuzu's lead with the Axiom and offer only base and XS models.
Now that I look at the picture again, it does not seem like the two-tone cladding would go all the way up to the flares. Looks like the cladding would end at the top of the bumper, you even see a seam there.
That means even the two-tone ought to look fine to me.
all 5-speed '03 Subies get the Hill-Holder clutch too, like the new Forester.
I think this was a very smart move on Subaru's part. The biggest fear of stick-shift-newbies is the fear of rolling back into someone on a hill. I know that was the case with my son when I taught him to drive my old 5-speed Accord. Now it's no longer a problem.
I won't be going to the show until next weekend (Feb 16th), but I promise to get as many pics of the Forester as I can. From that media.subaru pic, I'm actually a bit interested in seeing it in person (even if it isn't a blue B4 ).
You have nothing to lose, if you afford to wait, that is. The 2001s will only be available with better deals, and the added content alone is worth the wait.
Let's see, the CD player costs $271 even at invoice price. The 16" rims and tires are easily worth an extra $300. Keyless costs $116 now at invoice. Toss in the wipers and the Hill Holder, and a brake package that would probably cost you $500 or more in the aftermarket.
So me? I'd wait. Unless you much prefer the 2001's styling, or need a new vehicle now.
So, looks like Subaru added about $1000 worth of content even to the base model. I bet the price does go up, then. They start at $20,295 retail now, so I bet it goes up to $20,995, for a $700 increase.
The front is neither as Elantra-like as the all-white photo Ken provided us earlier, nor as GM-ish as paisan would want us to believe. Nonetheless I'm not crazy about the grille treatment and I don't like the fog treatment at all. (Re earlier post from juice: "I think Ed took the plastic covers off his fogs, and had that clear plastic coating put on. That would be easy enough." True, I did, and have had no problems yet knock wood. I installed the clear 3M plastic sheets myself. It makes cleaning the fogs a lot easier.) Actually the revised front is now saying "Toyota Highlander" to me.
It's the rear treatment that really doesn't appeal to me visually. I do not like the taillights at all. Recall the 98-02 model if you will and try to picture the car bathed in mud (some of you have actually done this). If you look from the rear fender bulge back around the taillight housing and to the liftgate, there is an unbroken character line that encompasses all those elements. Look at the liftgate and you see the bulge outward where it captures that line. That smooth integration is now lost. The rear three-quarter view of the last-gen Forester is one of the best views of the car. It looked best on the 98-00 models, lost emphasis when the 01-02s extended the taillight lenses onto the liftgate, and is now gone. The vertical taillights still recall Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager or, worse yet, a weak effort at Volvo XC/Honda CR-V towers.
Looks aside, the added heaps of standard equipment are great. Everyone gets 16" wheels now, and the All-Weather Package and 6-disc in-dash changer/weatherband radio (wish I had one) are standard. The fact that it's still being motivated by the 165hp N/A EJ25 is a huge minus. I didn't catch the vitals but I imagine the new car is heavier, so unless there's a decreased Cd or a different gear ratio it'll be a slower car. Once initial sales to the "gotta be the first on the block" crowd have been made, the lack of more "oomph" will be harmful.
juice, did you check out that latest p.r....says the new forester weighs 90lb LESS!....no change in dimensions but more interior (hope that means backseat) room.
Bingo, Kate, remote fuel door release could be #8. Not a bad list. I'm much more pleased with the new Forester than I was with the Baja launch.
Jim: on the other hand, the current model has proven reliability and prices are very competitive. :-)
Ed: have you seen Highlander sales? That's despite high transaction prices. They copied the original Forester, so maybe Subaru got them back. The D-pillar copies the Lexus GX470, too.
I wouldn't call the taillights vertical. They are triangular. It's actually shaped like many modern sedans are. My eyes are drawn to the center blacked-out stripe, and I just noticed the "Subaru" and "AWD" labels were placed there, plus the "AWD" sticker on the side was moved to become a label on the C-pillar.
The Cd is better, I think ours was 0.39-0.40, now it's 0.35.
Maybe it won't be as hindered by retaining the existing drivetrain as I imagined. As my current Forester could benefit from an additional 20-30hp I expect the new one could as well.
90 lbs less? Are you serious? That must mean an aluminum hood, probably even more aluminum. That would be phenomenal given the added content. In fact, it's kind of hard to believe!
Subaru needs to take a page from Apple and learn how to coordinate their product launches better. Work the hype, and then deliver the details. We should be able to get full info on the new Forester NOW, from the Subaru website.
Loyal Subaru customers get as excited about new product launches as Mac users do when MacWorld rolls around. Subaru needs to capitalize on the excitement. If this were the new iMac, we'd see full page spreads in major magazines, full details on the web site, and the ability to place orders now. In contrast, I feel like we're scrounging for crumbs here!
I can only guess that the excess refers to the ugly styling cues taken from the Korean manufacturers.
Thanks alot GM for taking a unique and slightly quirky car and giving a Highlander styling at best.
The only thing that can save it is if there is more rear leg room, since it appears that engine improvements will be minor and restricted to the top of the line models.
This does not keep up with the CRV and RAV improvements. IMHO.
RAV4 has just 148hp and doesn't match the crash test scores of the old Forester. Not to mention they offer the least standard content in the entire industry. How does the Forester not keep up with it?
Seriously, I don't get why you'd make that claim. The rear sliding seat can offer more legroom, but at the expense of cargo room, so it's one or the other.
The CR-V wins easily in the interior room category, but the Forester trumps it in content, value, warranty, and very likely handling, not to mention the full-time AWD.
The 2002 CR-V may have caught up with the Forester in many regards, but it still has tiny 15" wheels, 3/36 warranty, and low content (no mud guards, carpets, cross bars, cargo cover, plus things like ABS and AWD not standard).
Your profile says you own a Bimmer and are shopping for an Odyssey, so perhaps it's more a matter of your expectations for the price point you are accustomed to (i.e. much higher than the Forester's).
If they didn't make the back seat comfortable for adults it is all a waste of time IMHO. Of all the people I've seen look at a forester especially non-subie people their #1 comment was "if the back seat could fit adults I'd buy it" That I think was a key issue that should have been addressed above all else.
Suicide doors are supposed to make it into production, really. The Model X is way too small for paisan, light duty in every way he'd care about.
Know what's funny? The Baja debuted first, now the Forester, and soon the Legacy. But the Baja will be last to appear in production. The Forester should be in the 2nd half of May, then summer for the Legacy, then fall for the Baja (per Mark Darling, VP Marketing for SoA).
1. Is it still Impreza based ? cramped back seat ?
2. With baja & forester, wrx stylinig, Subaru seems to only attrach people with active lifestyle......it seems like they are designed to attract them.........
We still have no confirmation on whether it's Impreza or Legacy based, but at this point the former seems more likely. I'm not even sure about the rear suspension, they only mention it's retuned, nothing about a new multilink layout.
True, Dennis. The WRX wagon is about as roomy as my Forester.
Comments
Links?
-juice
Base (L?): with dark cladding.
Middle (S?): with colored cladding.
High (XS): monochromatic.
Bob
go to webcam, choose camera 3 and move to your right......takes 3-4 segements 'til you can see the subaru booth......mostly blocked by people now..they had the rear hatch open....also can see a picture on a monitor of a reddish-coloured one with dark cladding so bob is probably right.
at least it appears that the 2-tone is limited to the lower cladding & doesn't even arc over the wheels and thankfully not on the flares as well...
Now that I look at the picture again, it does not seem like the two-tone cladding would go all the way up to the flares. Looks like the cladding would end at the top of the bumper, you even see a seam there.
That means even the two-tone ought to look fine to me.
-juice
-juice
I think this was a very smart move on Subaru's part. The biggest fear of stick-shift-newbies is the fear of rolling back into someone on a hill. I know that was the case with my son when I taught him to drive my old 5-speed Accord. Now it's no longer a problem.
Bob
how do you know about the hill-holder clutch? Are the specs out on the Web somewhere already?
--Bart
-juice
Bob
-Brian
-juice
* no power increase (yet)
* new suspensions tuning probably means 4 struts
Good news:
* keyless now standardd
* CD player std
* var. int. wipers std
* 16" rims std (big plus!)
* bigger front brakes
* Hill Holder
If a turbo indeed comes out next year, and the rear seat is sorted out, there's not a whole lot not to like. :-)
-juice
Ken
Jim
Bob
Let's see, the CD player costs $271 even at invoice price. The 16" rims and tires are easily worth an extra $300. Keyless costs $116 now at invoice. Toss in the wipers and the Hill Holder, and a brake package that would probably cost you $500 or more in the aftermarket.
So me? I'd wait. Unless you much prefer the 2001's styling, or need a new vehicle now.
So, looks like Subaru added about $1000 worth of content even to the base model. I bet the price does go up, then. They start at $20,295 retail now, so I bet it goes up to $20,995, for a $700 increase.
-juice
Wasn't automatic climate control one?
-Dennis
* bigger brakes
* 16" wheels standard
* auto climate control option
* CD standard
* keyless standard
* variable intermittent wipers
* Hill Holder
That's seven, anything I missed? A lot of those things were asked for very specifically, others may fall into the general "better content" request.
-juice
-mike
Jim
It's the rear treatment that really doesn't appeal to me visually. I do not like the taillights at all. Recall the 98-02 model if you will and try to picture the car bathed in mud (some of you have actually done this). If you look from the rear fender bulge back around the taillight housing and to the liftgate, there is an unbroken character line that encompasses all those elements. Look at the liftgate and you see the bulge outward where it captures that line. That smooth integration is now lost. The rear three-quarter view of the last-gen Forester is one of the best views of the car. It looked best on the 98-00 models, lost emphasis when the 01-02s extended the taillight lenses onto the liftgate, and is now gone. The vertical taillights still recall Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager or, worse yet, a weak effort at Volvo XC/Honda CR-V towers.
Looks aside, the added heaps of standard equipment are great. Everyone gets 16" wheels now, and the All-Weather Package and 6-disc in-dash changer/weatherband radio (wish I had one) are standard. The fact that it's still being motivated by the 165hp N/A EJ25 is a huge minus. I didn't catch the vitals but I imagine the new car is heavier, so unless there's a decreased Cd or a different gear ratio it'll be a slower car. Once initial sales to the "gotta be the first on the block" crowd have been made, the lack of more "oomph" will be harmful.
Ed
We'll forgive you if you're not fond of the looks. Not enough Studebaker styling in it, I guess?;)
Bob
Ed
Bob
Jim: on the other hand, the current model has proven reliability and prices are very competitive. :-)
Ed: have you seen Highlander sales? That's despite high transaction prices. They copied the original Forester, so maybe Subaru got them back. The D-pillar copies the Lexus GX470, too.
I wouldn't call the taillights vertical. They are triangular. It's actually shaped like many modern sedans are. My eyes are drawn to the center blacked-out stripe, and I just noticed the "Subaru" and "AWD" labels were placed there, plus the "AWD" sticker on the side was moved to become a label on the C-pillar.
The Cd is better, I think ours was 0.39-0.40, now it's 0.35.
-juice
Ed
Ed
-juice
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38221
Think about it, they add a CD, keyless entry reciever, variable intermittent wipers, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, and it's lighter?
Lighter with the same equipment, OK, but lighter even with the new stuff? I hope AN is correct.
-juice
Let's not show too much enthusiasm, or they'll jack up the prices on us!
Yuck, what a horrible car. I'd never buy it unless it's $18K. Hear that, SoA?
--Bart
OK, here is the weight and mileage for the current models:
Impreza TS:
manual 3045 lbs, 21/28 mpg
auto 3100 lbs, 22/27 mpg
Forester L:
manual 3140 lbs, 21/28 mpg
auto 3195 lbs, 22/27 mpg
So the new Forester S ought to be:
manual 3050 lbs
auto 3105 lbs
In other words, about the same as the Impreza TS. That's actually good, and lighter than the Outback Sport!
But if the TS' mileage didn't improve, will the Forester's?
-juice
Loyal Subaru customers get as excited about new product launches as Mac users do when MacWorld rolls around. Subaru needs to capitalize on the excitement. If this were the new iMac, we'd see full page spreads in major magazines, full details on the web site, and the ability to place orders now. In contrast, I feel like we're scrounging for crumbs here!
Craig
-juice
Thanks alot GM for taking a unique and slightly quirky car and giving a Highlander styling at best.
The only thing that can save it is if there is more rear leg room, since it appears that engine improvements will be minor and restricted to the top of the line models.
This does not keep up with the CRV and RAV improvements. IMHO.
-mike
Seriously, I don't get why you'd make that claim. The rear sliding seat can offer more legroom, but at the expense of cargo room, so it's one or the other.
The CR-V wins easily in the interior room category, but the Forester trumps it in content, value, warranty, and very likely handling, not to mention the full-time AWD.
The 2002 CR-V may have caught up with the Forester in many regards, but it still has tiny 15" wheels, 3/36 warranty, and low content (no mud guards, carpets, cross bars, cargo cover, plus things like ABS and AWD not standard).
Your profile says you own a Bimmer and are shopping for an Odyssey, so perhaps it's more a matter of your expectations for the price point you are accustomed to (i.e. much higher than the Forester's).
-juice
-mike
-juice
Know what's funny? The Baja debuted first, now the Forester, and soon the Legacy. But the Baja will be last to appear in production. The Forester should be in the 2nd half of May, then summer for the Legacy, then fall for the Baja (per Mark Darling, VP Marketing for SoA).
-juice
Ken
2. With baja & forester, wrx stylinig, Subaru seems to only attrach people with active lifestyle......it seems like they are designed to attract them.........
3. disappointing looks !
Even if the Forester is Impreza based, it should get more room. The New Age Impreza's have more room than the previous generation did.
-Dennis
True, Dennis. The WRX wagon is about as roomy as my Forester.
-juice