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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Horses don't ride in the back of Escalades, they wouldn't be seen dead in one... the horse in that picture looks utterly disgusted.

    --Bart
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're right, he's resisting be pulled onto that truck.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    No, my camera still works after taking the Aztek pictures. I think I heard it chuckle as I snapped the pictures (like it knows better!) ;)

    -Brian
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    is for when the thing breaks down and has to be towed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good one, Lucien. :-)

    I noticed something interesting - the interior on the Freelander uses a dash material similar to the Lexus IS300. That matte black, padded stuff.

    I don't particularly like it, but I knew I had seen it before when I sat in the Freelander.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Oh great so if I go to home depot and load up my truck with 25-30 bags of concrete mix, and then try to drive home at say 10mph, it won't let me go into gear? Luckily there will likely be a relay or fuse I could pull in that situation, or someone will find an override like the DRLs. I don't understand why if people see the back of their truck is sagging down that there might be a problem with the amount of load they are putting in it. They should inspect their vehicle whenever they are loading it up with stuff and therefore would see that it's sitting rather low in the back that it has been overloaded. Personal responsibility is not stressed enough in this country and this would just feed right into that.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    People always bend the rules, though.

    I wonder if it just sounded a warning for the driver, to let you know. I guess it could even register the fact in ODBII memory, but that's too Big Brother for me.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    of alerting the driver that don't have to be too intrusive. Big trucks have gauges and warning systems out the wazoo; their drivers don't seem to find it a problem.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Also need them for federal laws I'd suspect and cost around 100k to buy :) Like I said we can't even get oil pressure oil temp amps and volts guages which would be very useful, let alone a guage that could potentially get them sued.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It seems most of the Japanese car makers are developing new and cleaner diesels for the European market. Conspicuously absent from the list is Subaru. I really think if Subaru intends to put much of a sales dent in Europe, they will need to offer a diesel at some point.

    Bob

    http://www.veh-tech.net/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    GM may make them use Isuzu units. To me it makes total sense, too. Let Isuzu speciliaze in them, as a matter of fact.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    anything other than a "boxer-type" engine will fit under the skin without extensive chassis and/or front suspension modifications. If Isuzu can build a boxer diesel, then fine.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be honest, I'm not very familiar with the smaller Subies (Pleo, right?), nor the engines they use, so (for once) I cannot comment.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Impreza and Legacy diesels, not Justy or Pleos. Of the "really small" Subarus, only the Justy is sold in Europe, and not in all countries IIRC. I think Pleos and Sambars are pretty much home-market vehicles. They may(?) be also sold in other Asian countries, but I don't know.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Legacy is too low-volume in Europe to justify the development costs. Unless it can inherit the powertrain used in the Impreza (could be easy).

    But the volume is in Pleo sized cars. Remember the HM-01?

    Build a diesel for that. That's what would sell in Europe, heck Brazil too.

    Slightly off topic, did you read that article in last week's AN about Lutz wanting future Grand Ams and Malibus to compete in the $30k price range? Has Lutz gone NUTS? Those are $16-18k cars, not even $20k plus. No way, no how will people pay $30 grand for a Grand Am, even if it does reach Camry levels of refinement. They would still have to carry a $5k price edge.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Just picked up my wife from the airport. She was in Japan for a two week trip.

    One of the goodies she brought back for me was a special issue of "Car Top" -- a Japanese car magazine -- dedicated to the 2003 Forester. Lots of cool photos, pics and diagrams in there.

    I'll look through it later and maybe take some digital pix of ones that are interesting.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You have all the fun...

    ;)

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Time for me to hit the Japanese Bookstore. :-)

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If they build one diesel boxer, that would work for both the Legacy and Impreza. Diesels are such an important part of the European (and world) car landscape. In just the UK alone, almost 36% of the cars sold are diesels. I find it hard to understand why Subaru has ignored them. They have publicly stated that they want to make a much larger impact in Europe. Diesels are an obvious solution to that.

    No, I didn't see that article.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    See if you can get wheelbase and ground clearance measurements. They've been either vague or contradictory so far.

    Subaru has a premium, performance image in the land of Prodrive. Diesels are mainstream. Yes, they could use them to expand, but they'd be leaving their niche and maybe watering down their image.

    I really don't think it'll be a boxer, or even a Subaru engine. In fact I just read an interview in AN with a GM honcho, and he says that GM's new V6s will make their way into the Subaru products.

    We've seen the Traviq, now I hear about GM V6s, and Isuzu has diesels on the shelf. You really think Subaru is going to develop their own boxer?

    Not me.

    -juice
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Can anyone tell me just when GM's acquisition of Subaru stock took place and what percentage of ownership they hold? Is it a controlling interest?

    -james
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it ain't a Subaru...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, Bob, but maybe I'm facing the grim reality before you're willing to? ;-)

    GM has a 20% stake. I think it happened about a year or two ago.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I thought GM had written off the IVT; apparently not.

    Bob

    http://www.gminsidenews.com/torotrak3.htm
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    has 20%+2% additional IIRC. It is controlling interest (they are the largest share holder)

    -mike
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    Largest shareholder does not make you the controlling interest by a long shot.It sure helps but if even two other shareholders with combined interests larger than the largest shareholder have a similar mind set, the other guy is history. Ask Honda, they had a far larger share of Rover and the UK govt didn't even ask them to bid when they sold to BMW! Though we all know why that was.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Had a chance to thumb through the Forester magazine this evening. Pretty cool stuff in there showing off the various features and accessories. There's even a write up on how Subaru ended up with the final design complete with sketches of the intermediate concepts. I'll try and scan some pics if anyone's interested.

    The ground clearance is 200mm and wheelbase 2525mm.

    Ken
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    -Brian
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Graham's link in Meet the Members also says 200mm clearance. That's 7.9", which is more than before, not the same. I've also heard 190mm from at least one source, and that's what the old model had. To me the 7.9" makes sense because it matches the H6 models. The Forester should have the most clearance of any Subie.

    20mm wider inside, that's almost an inch. 25mm more rear leg room, we finally got a measurement on that. That's about an inch.

    Still not roomy, but probably adequate, especially for kids.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You want more rear legroom?

    Check out the new Maybach "Bark-o-Lounger!" It's perfect for the dentist on the run...

    Enter as a "Guest," then follow the links to the "Maybach Press Kit," then to "Photos."

    Bob

    http://media.daimlerchrysler.com/gms_frame
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=37362&dm=yes
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How 'bout one a mortal can afford, Bob? ;-)

    Nissan's SUV looks like a copy of the Vehicross. Don't people avoid 2 doors?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    you being an alien, price shouldn't be a problem. ;)

    BTW, it is a twin turbo 5.5L V12; just what your wife needs...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think paisan would consider that kind of power "adequate". ;-)

    For me, it's gotta cost under $30 grand and get 20mpg city.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I like that, what car is this again?

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    • Now that all new '03 Foresters will have 16" wheels, do you think the Impreza TS and Legacy L will also get 16" wheels too? It simplifies productions in that there are are fewer tire choices to inventory and deal with.

    • Do you think '03 Legacys, Outbacks and Imprezas will do away with the truck keyhole, like they did with the new '03 Forester?

    • There has been much talk here about the need for a larger Subaru sedan. What if Subaru added a long-wheelbase Legacy sedan to the existing sedan mix? In Germany, both BMW and Mercedes have had long and short wheelbase versions of their large sedans for years. Could (should?) Subaru consider offering such a car. If they added another 4" to the wheelbase—and gave all that extra space to the rear seat passengers, just like the Germans, do you think it could be marketed here? Keep the existing sedan, but add a long-wheelbase version; it would certainly be cheaper than creating an all-new larger model.

    Bob
  • jimmyj1945jimmyj1945 Member Posts: 141
    When the prices (MSRP & Invoice) and specs. for the 2003 Forester will be published? Should be soon if they are to be on the dealers lots in May!

    Jim J.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I was reading through my Forester magazine last night and picked up two interesting tidbits:

    - The JDM 2.0 Turbo engine for the Forester was retuned for this new model. Subaru traded off 20 ps of peak power (240->220ps) to increase low/mid-end torque. Peak torque remains the same at 31.5kg-m. The net effect allows the Forester to accelerate faster. SOJ saw 0-100kmh acceleration improve from 7.2sec to 7.0sec.

    - The rear seats get 30mm of extra legroom :-)

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I've uploaded some pics from the 2003 Forester magazine my wife brought home from Japan:


    http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/kentaros98/lst?.dir=/Forester&.view=l


    I didn't have a scanner handy so I had to use my digital camera. My apologies if the quality isn't very good.


    Enjoy,


    Ken

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks for the photos. Is there a URL to that magazine?

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Bob,

    Unfortunately, no. I've been searching on Google and Yahoo Japan, but nothing comes up. The magazine name is "Car Top" and the publisher "Kotsu Times Sha". If there is a Japanese bookstore in your area (ie. Kinokuniya) you might be able to find it there.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting thought, Bob. The thing is with 16" wheels you get 55 series tires on both the Impreza and the Legacy. Are those too sporting for the TS and the L models? Maybe.

    But I'd like to see 4 wheel disc brakes standard across the board, and maybe those 16" wheels and tires, too. Subaru is all about traction, so it makes sense.

    Will key holes disappear? I guess yes on the Legacy, since it's getting updated. The Impreza may get it next year, if and when it's face lifted.

    A long wheelbase Legacy sounds good, but it may need to be a little wider, too. Still, it would be a top contender for my wife, who feels the current Legacy is a bit small (same size as her 626, but she wants more space).

    Forester gets 30mm more rear leg room? I read 25mm somewhere else. We can't decide on ground clearance either (190mm or 200mm). Sounds good, though, especially if the front seat has more travel. Total leg room should be significantly better.

    Bring on the 220 horses! Though that may make the 2.5l turbo a goner.

    Interesting draft proposals. I like the one they chose the best, to be honest. The others are:

    1. Closest to the actual, but a few styling cues were added.
    2. Baja cladding on rear too much.
    3. RAV4 look-a-like
    4. Santa Fe look-a-like, and the ugliest proposal.
    5. Mountaineer headlights

    The photos of the cargo area show strut towers that look pretty much like mine. I don't see how they are less intrusive.

    Nice catch, Ken.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Juice, if you make it wider, then it really becomes a different car. My suggestion is to try and get as roomy a Legacy sedan as possible, without drastic changes. The Audi/BMW/MB formula, of adding a stretched wheelbase version and giving all that extra room to rear passengers, seems to be the most cost-effective way of doing that.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I like the idea of a stretched wheelbase, but the width is a problem, you can't fit 3 adults across the back seat of a legacy, not for more than 5 minutes.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Even more interesting is the comment that Subaru regards turbos as much as they do AWD and boxer engines as being part of their brand identity. That suggests to me that more turbos are in store, perhaps even more than we're already expecting...

    Bob

    http://www.veh-tech.net/
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    when the next Legacy debuts it will be wider? The interesting thing about legroom, especially rear legroom, is that is often how "perceptions" of roomieness are formed. The car could be narrow, but if it has gobs of rear legroom, people tend to think of it being roomy. Rarely do customers test with seating three-abreast.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    typical buyers also flock to shiny plastic trim, etc. etc. :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: I know exactly what you mean, but the cars they stretch are already wide-bodies. The Legacy is not.

    If not 3 across in the back seat, then maybe a 3rd row seat? Even for kiddos? Nah, not likely. The SUW will address that.

    It's an interesting thought, Bob. It would need the H6, though, and the question is, could Subaru charge any more for a Legacy? I dunno, people gawk at any prices in the 30s.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Don't forget that a legacy L can be had for 19K, H6 and longer should push it to maybe 23K tops. It's a good start, but not a solution.

    -mike
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