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Comments
Bob
that I would believe
Bob
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?404;http://www.thecarconnection.com/thisweek/default.asp
All-trac was great, but the 4 banger just didn't cut it. Even with the supercharger it was noisy. Not to mention the minivan wrapped around it was just too odd for US tastes.
The H6 Outback doesn't really belong in that group of vehicles, by class or by price. It hardly makes sense to compare them. Besides, I'd think that award carries about as much weight as Family Circle's.
-juice
Here are some Quicktime clips from Subaru of Japan's website showing VDC doing it's thing:
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC1s.mov
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC2s.mov
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC3s.mov
http://www.imagine-xt.com/snt/VDC4s.mov
One word of caution -- the clips are big (4-9Mb) and take a long time to load.
Ken
This VDC does it all. It has a smooth, solid and comfortable ride when you're on the freeway. The all wheel drive makes it a better handling car then the Park Ave and the Honda. The SUV's were never comfortable or smooth. What's astounding is how it goes into tight turns or wide sweeping turns. The all wheel drive makes a big difference. You can increase the speeds in the turns and she still holds (what fantastic control). You then straighten out and she's just smooth and quiet as any fine automobile should be. You can transform this into light off road abilities.
My big concern was if she could climb the mountains in the Sierras. I no longer have concerns about that. She had more than enough power and speed on the way up to Mammoth.
Mammoth summit is 11,033ft. Roads only go up to 8,500ft. No problem with power there. At the 6,000ft level the roads were hard pack snow and patchy ice. It proformed sturdy. There was no sense of slipping. The awd full time performed better than I anticapated. Personally I can't see owning a car without it. My next experiment was to test the VDC. I went into a snow covered parking lot and there I did circles and figure 8's. I kept increasing the speed so I could get the VDC to operate. Just as I thought the car was going to spin the dashboard lite up VDC. The VDC light kept coming on when it needed to keep the car under control. It was incredible. I could hardly believe it. You could actually feel the VDC taking control. It only comes on when you really need it.
Next I went to Convict Lake. The road was clear up to the Lake. The road around the lake was closed. The road was unplowed but I did see tire tracks so I proceeded. She drove right through without any problems. Wherever I steered her she went. The road was a little rough. The snow was a little too high and at this time and only this time I thought an SUV would be appropiate. I got out of there quickly.
I returned home the next day and here's the cherry. I got 27 miles per gallon. I wasn't babying it. As I said, for me this car suits me to a tee. It offers everything I like and require. The smoothness and comfort of a fine sedan and superior handling of any auto I've come across. There are all sorts of vehicles out there for all kinds of tastes, this one happens to be mine. It also fits my pocketbook.
A plus is I get all kinds of compliments.
Scarwaf
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Now THATS how you review a Subaru
Subaru's arent super "off-roaders" like in that Popular Science review, they are "real-roaders" able to take on any condition on any real road (including dirt and gravel roads of course)... Off-road is an entirely different thing that if you wanted to do that, you would get a Jeep or something, LOL!
kosta- "real-roader" -- I think SoA ought to have a new ad campaign!
..Mike
..Mike
Bob
http://www.new-impreza.com/
I now lease a 2000 Outback Limited Wagon and I like it very much. When my lease is up in early 2002, I would like to purchase either and LLB or VDC. However, it would appear that even with the considerable power increase in the H6 the stated towing capacity remains the same. I have a small boat and with a trailer; motor, gas and all the other gear it just exceeds the 2000 pound specs. Why has the maximum towing limit remained the same? I understand that in Europe the towing capacity is much higher for essentially the same car. Do I detect the fine hand of the liability lawyers? Will you be authorizing a higher towing limit? I would think 2500 pounds is easily doable for local towing. Don't give me the party line that the lawyers hand out... tell me if there will be an increase in the official towing capacity and if I am correct regarding the European limits.
Thank you.
jagarland@mediaone.net
BTW, that 2000 limit is only for trailers with brakes. If your trailer doesn't have brakes, the limit is only 1000.
Bob
kosta - "Real roads". That says it.
Cheers,
-wdb
If you are towing locally (no long distance, not big hills, like 10-15 minutes away) you can probably tow up to 3500 lbs safely. I've seen outbacks on the highway towing 20' campers. I've towed 2500lb boats with a plymouth relient K short distances. Most engineering encompasses about a 40% reduction from the max towing capacity, from what engineers have told me. SOA is CYAing themselves.
-mike
And... she (my daughter and the Toaster) did just fine in last night's 5" snowfall.
Bob
You are correct with your post about towing and I understand what you are saying. I am aware that the towing limits are part engineering concerns and a larger part of possible liability claims. However, the warranties would be voided if you were caught towing over the limit, and, the insurance companies would not pay either if something happened. I am not as worried about towing for short distances causing damage to the car as much as I am concerned about liability. For several years now I have leased cars for 2 or 3 years and didn't install a hitch. However, I just sold of my business and retired so I intend to buy my next car and keep it for a while. I would like to install a hitch on that and tow my 17.5 boat to various fishing spots here on Cape Cod. Just need 500 pounds more of capacity to allay my concerns. Hope Subaru's legal eagles will allow a small increase.
jagarland
-mike
By the way, I test drove an LL Bean mobile last week and I have to say it is a thoroughly competent, yet utterly boring vehicle. The H6 is pretty nice...reasonably powerful and very smooth. HOWEVER, I also have to say that I'm not sure that I'm ready for an auto yet; just too passive a driving experience. The drive reminds me of my parents' 1977 Plymouth Volare SW (a wonderful wagon by the way, if you could get over the rust; great slant six engine though). And before people start suggesting that I consider a Legacy GT, let me say that it is out of the question. Although Subaru swears the cloth and leather seats in the Legacy and Outback are identical, I have a difficult time getting comfortable in the cloth seats...the seat back seems too narrow to me. I have no problem with this in the leather seats.
I also have a few nitpicks with the car: like all Outbacks, the rear-view mirror/compass is mounted in my line of sight and this is annoying since neither one of our current cars is like this. Why can't car manufacturers design and make a height adjustable mirror! The compass can also be distracting, although I believe it can be turned off. I also have mixed feelings about the moonroofs. I mean for $28k it would be nice for the DRIVER, as opposed to the kids, to benefit from it. I could also take or leave the automatic climate control. I reported all of this to the Subaru folks at the Baltimore car show, of course. The rep there said that more than a few people have inquired about the availability of a 5-speed in the H6. Maybe in the 2002 OB. I don't think they are going to offer the manual climate control in the Beano and VDC though!
I also got to take a look at the new Passat in Baltimore. Too bad the SW was on the turntable and inaccessible (this made no sense of course since they had four sedans on the floor). As expected, I liked some things and didn't like others. The Lexus RX300esque tail lights don't do much for me; neither do the chrome trim and the rather heavy look of the front end. I always felt that the clean, minimalist design of the 1998-2000 Passat's exterior was more, well, European. The current look reminds me of a Caprice Classic! Some aspects of the exterior and interior are improved, however. I like the new headlights and the gauges and armrest are nice. I don't care for the brighter look of the new beige cloth/leather (dirt attractors) though, and the cupholders are pretty cheap looking–very mini-van like. In any case, I'll have to test drive a Passat SW in March to see how it compares to the OB.
Bill
Anyway, your comments about the OB are suprizing... Perhaps your looking at the wrong wagons, no? Go check out the 3-series wagon and the WRX when it comes out, lol!
If I owned a Volvo wagon in white I swear I'd get plates that said FRGR8R.
Saw the VDC in person for the first time in Baltimore, and thought it was pretty nice. The stereo doesn't stand out as much as I thougth from photos. Overall the interior is very upscale, a step above the Passat and two steps above the Toyota Highlander, if you ask me.
Still haven't driven the H6, which is a sin, I know. I just haven't ever required service or repairs so I have not been back to the dealer since my dad bought his Outback!
On Towing - I have a newsletter my buddy centavo sent me (thanks!) that said the Forester won an award from a Dutch publication for best in class towing.
They loaded up each sport/cute with 70% of the vehicle's weight, or about 2200 lbs for the Forester, and it was best in terms of acceleration, stability, hill climbing, etc.
So you should be OK. Euro limits are set at 1800kg, or almost 4000 lbs!
-juice
Bill: I agree. The seats are different, no question about it. I specifically chose the GT over the Limited because, for me, the leather seats in the Limited did not have sufficient side bolsters, and the cloth seats did. Your comments say the same thing as mine do, except that you would choose the leather.
I also agree automatics *are* "too passive". Even the A4 Quattro I drove that had those little (+) and (-) buttons on the steering wheel to shift the car - even that was a pale excuse for manual control of the shifter, mostly because the buttons did not cause anything even remotely resembling an instantaneous shift to take place. I found myself having to anticipate the shift by at least a second. All I could think was, "what's the point? Give me my clutch back please!"
Cheers,
-wdb
White, square shape, huge hole in the roof, heated seats... Makes sense to me.
Bagels! Hmmm... I'm not going to mention that to my daughter, as she often frequents a local Bagel Bin. If she heard that, who knows what she'd do.
Bob
-mike
Sure he wasn't using aftermarket stuff?
SPT sells a leather kit for the Impreza, but it would not fit the rear seats.
-juice
-mike
-juice
Where did they het the hills in Holland to test the car on hill climbs? :-)
Daniel
-juice
Hi Bill, Protege is a great little car (hehe, as you know the prior name of Protege was GLC); wife owned one. I almost bought Protege in 93, so I know you mean. You can almost sleep in the Protege's trunk -- it's gimundous!
Interesting observation on the width of the back of cloth and leather seats by you, Kosta, and WDB (hi grandad!).
Q: Why can't car manufacturers design and make a height adjustable mirror?
A: Because all automotive human factors engineers have exactly the same dimensions, mass, and shape.
I'm afraid to know what one looks like as I'll either have to hit the gym more regularly or eat more donuts.
Re 01 Passat: The inadequate front cup holder design (my peeve) has been addressed (but as you mention not perfected); two are now in the console. Interestingly, I couldn't find one for the rear seat (this was in the 4Motion AWD sedan -- 17mpg city, oh my!). I still like the Legacy's dashboard (also Saab 9-5) and console implementations begun in MY00. But juice, Loosh, and Colin keep telling me there are parts in a car other than cup holders, including but not limited to suspension, motor, and drive train. Parked in the driver's seat I can't see those so I overanalyze the cockpit tangibles.
..Mike
..Mike
All MB vehicles have "ESP off" switches which deactivate the torque reduction component of the system for precisely that (stuck) situation when one needs the momentum to get unstuck. You also don't want ESP to cut power while you're traveling off-road (ex. in loose sand). With ESP off, the computer still has 20% control and the brake-only component of the 4 wheel traction/stability control is still active. Basically it means that you can still do four wheel drifts :-) When the ESP off switch is activated, a big orange hazard triangle (!) is illuminated in the middle of the speedometer. No excuses for missing it. Subaru should really think about adding a VSC off switch as well.
Patti, please make note of this if you could. I think it is definitely a good idea.
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
1st - European countries have an overall lower ambient temperature and different road conditions. I was advised that both of these factor in to the towing specification recommendation.
2nd (and I think more importantly), the U. S. regulatory folks use a different standard than Europe when reviewing manufacturers towing specs. It appears that manufacturers have to review the weights with the Gov. before they provide information to consumers and there are "guidelines" that have to be followed.
Paisan, you said regarding the fact that Subaru should increase the towinf limit: "Heck that is one of the reasons I got my Trooper over the subie (17' bowrider) that I tow.
You bought the Trooper for the exact same reasons why I am considering another car (Highlander, Liberty, etc) for when I have to turn in my current leased Outback.
Oh well there are lots of good cars out there, I'm sure Subaru will surive without me.
Jack
jagarland
Patti: thanks for checking on the towing matters. I agree that our roads leave much to be desired. In fact, most companies soften their suspensions because US consumers complain so much (I don't think Subaru does, though).
Jack: keep in mind the VDC uses the same structure and brakes that the 4 bangers do, not to mention they are burdened with more weight.
That in mind, I was able to check out the VDC closely and I'm not sure it would make a great tow vehicle - mostly because the interior is way too upscale. You really want to get that nice interior muddy?
-juice
Parked in the driver's seat I can't see those so I overanalyze the cockpit tangibles.
Mike, this is a sure sign of the onset of geezer-dom. Take it from me - I'm now official!
Cheers,
-wdb
-mike
Mazda is still mostly Mazda. The current 626 only uses a Ford tranny in 4 cylinder automatic models. Both engines are Mazdas. The Protoge is purely Mazda, all the powertrain stuff at least.
Sadly, the next 626 won't be, and the next Protoge will become a Focus twin.
In the meantime, though, the Protoge 5 and their sporty model look interesting, at least for an entry-level car.
-juice
Disappointed,
-wdb
If it happened to GM/Subaru, wouldn't you be more concerned?
Anyhow, here's some interesting quotes from BMW's motorcycle brochure. They said "by its very design, the Boxer carries its weight low in the chassis for an improved center of gravity and better balance."
Hmm, why not in their cars, then? :-)
-juice
-mike
I'm serious. They were driving down a highway, and people next to them were honking their horns, freaking out. He finally pulled over, just in time to watch it burn to a crisp.
Now he owns a Ford (!) and a Subaru.
-juice
Another interesting Protégé fact is that it has MORE passenger legroom in the rear than a Subaru Forester (35.4" vs. 33.4"). I can attest to this personally after sitting in both in Baltimore. The Forester is damn tight in back and I can only image my kids endlessly kicking my seatback as I drive merrily along down the road. This is an area that Subaru desperately needs to address (along with more power) in the next model.
Mike: Nice explanation as to why engineers can't give me my height adjustable rear-view mirror! I am still interested in seeing if folks think that this would be a nice improvement though. Does anyone else have this pet peeve or am I only one?
Bill
Still, it'll be the only one to come in a wagon, too.
In the Forester, I'll take more room only if it doesn't make it too heavy and take away from its nimble handling.
I'll take the power regardless.
-juice
IMHO, WMarton, u should look into the Sentras as well. They are pretty good for a subcompact.
But even base Imprezas will have 165hp, which ought to match the quickest compacts since it has AWD.
-juice
Hey Juice: What did you think of the new Passat? Is it my imagination or does the front look a bit heavy?
Bill
The V-spec looks pretty good if you ask me!
Drew
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