has got all the accessories and prices added to the site. A expected, those 17" BBS wheels will lighten you wallet by over $3K—not including tires.
I said before that I also think the H6 in any of the Legacy sedans would go over far better with most American buyers than a turbo-H4 would. Having said that (repeatedly), I'll note a couple of potential counterarguments: -- First, you might argue that the most likely Subaru sedan customers are not necessarily like most mainstream American car buyers and would be more likely to be interested in a turbo (or, better yet, twin turbo). There's probably at least a little truth in this argument, but the catch is that Subaru undoubtedly wants to expand its U.S. market rather than just primarily appeal to people who are more likely to buy Subarus anyway. -- Second, you could argue that rising gas prices could make fuel-thrifty yet spunky turbos look more appealing than 6-cylinders to American sports sedan buyers. I can't really pursue this argument very far because I actually don't know how the gas mileage in a turbo-H4 Legacy would compare with the mpg in an otherwise identical H6 Legacy. Also, unless the fuel-efficiency difference is darn impressive, I suspect it'd take a pretty sharp and sustained gas price hike to make the average U.S. sedan shopper prefer a turbo over a 6-cylinder.
Most likely the H6 Legacy will get better gas milage than the Turbo? (Since the Legacy will be lighter than the VDC/LLBean?) Just a thought. Although gearing probably has something to do with it too.
The 22B used a similar wheel, but it was gold and 17x8.5, considerably wider than the 17x7 WRX optional wheel. The 22B "only" mounted 235/40-17 tires as well... yet Subaru of America recommends 215/45-17 on the new WRX. Considering that the 215/45-17 fits just fine on the 1st generation Impreza, what exactly are those ugly flares on the new WRX for anyway?
I was reading through the WRX brochure, and they made mention of the "available" 17" wheels fitting the "flared" fenders of the sedan. There was no mention (or pictures) of the 17" wheels on the WRX wagon.
Remember, the wagon has a narrower track, and doesn't have the blistered fenders. I wonder if the 17" wheel/tire package will fit properly (if at all) within the wagon's narrower fenders/wheelwells?
that I got in the mail a couple of weeks ago is pretty detailed, except for one thing: Unlike other Subaru model brochures, this brochure does NOT list, in the back "Specs/Features" tables, any options—either factory or dealer installed.
None of the options mentioned in Glenn Wallace's site (New Impreza.com) were listed.
The "mechanical specs" and "safety features" are listed with the usual Subaru degree of detail. However, "comfort" items have a very short listing. In fact, it's so short, it looks incomplete.
Since this was a early printing of the WRX brochure, I'm wondering if a more complete brochure will be forthcoming.
Colin - maybe Subaru wanted to give it the "look" of the 22B. IMO, they would have looked better if they were a little smoother. Looks a little like Forester flares with the square look (which are fine on the Forester).
These brochures are considered "Auto Show" brochures. As I'm sure you have seen in most manufacturer brochures, there is always this little disclaimer that "the information within is subject to change". Instead of putting out a brochure with a lot of changes, we often put out an early brochure and leave out things that are not "in stone" yet. Of course, even the final brochure can have changes, but we try to keep them to a minimum.
We should have a finalized brochure with all the candy ;~} really soon (by the end of this month). There will be one detailed brochure that relates to the WRX and another for the rest of the Impreza line-up.
Keep in mind - Because of the "nature" of the automotive business, dealers usually get the brochures before anyone (even us). So, if you have a relationship with a dealer, ask them to call you when they get the brochures with the vehicle release.
Any chance of having "final" brochures on both the WRX and the rest of the Impreza lineup for our Sunday get together—as it will be past the "end of the month," and into the new month?
As far as I can tell is that several posters here are right that the combo will be available on the wagon. This makes sense as the standard wheel style in a 17" pkg is standard on the UK model. Check out the UK Soob site to see how they fill out the wheel well much better than the 16" combo. It actually makes the standard wheel style look better and makes me forget about the horrendously expensive BBS option. BTW, Patti, what's the deal on the outrageous price for BBS, not even including tires? Is SOA serious about this option?
I'm going to a Subaru dealer tomorrow to see what sort of deal they would be willing to make me. I love my OB Ltd wagon w/auto but not as much as I love the performance of the WRX wagon (yes, I will be going w/5-spd!). The trade-in on my OB Ltd w/all the options I have, condition (excellent),and mileage (about 10,600, bought on 2/18/00) is aprox $20k according to Edmunds. I financed about $20K and my payoff is about $13k leaving $7k for a downpayment. I figured on paying retail but am not going to divulge that to the dealer :-). At retail, I figure the following:
Base price: $ 23,495 Dest. Chg: 525 183 Auto dimming mirror/compass 140 Center armrest extension 218 Upgraded speakers 267 Subwoofer/amplifier 225 Security system upgrade 260 Short shift kit 92 Differential protector Total: $ 25,405
I figure I would order the cross bars and cargo net from Darlene. I figured I could put those on myself. I didn't want to deal w/putting on the protector though. I thought about the gauge pkg but at $ 638, forgeddaboutit!!
What does everyone think? Am I crazy for even pursuing it? You can be blunt!
The good thing about buying those items on the order sheet would be wrapping them into the loan, where they mostly become insignificant. The bad thing would be holding up delivery on your car due to an option not being in stock.
I'd pass on the upgraded stereo and speakers, having heard everything Subaru has offered to date and being thoroughly underwhelmed with everything except the VDC's McIntosh unit. (It was OK, but honestly not as good as I expected.)
You know, I realized that I've never heard the stock speakers and/or stereo w/o pwr amp. When I bought my OB Ltd it had it in it already. Eliminating the two items on the option list would almost pay for the $500 or so ordering deposit. :-) Now, what color??? I was thinking black but for once in my life I'm feeling somewhat partial to the silver on the WRX. I don't think that I would want to live w/the blue and the red is not moving me. The white seems too nondescript, maybe if it was pearlescent I'd like it more.
The problem with the yellow color is 1) limited availability and 2) as far as I can tell (see new_impeza.com site)it will only be available on the sedan.
I sure wish that we had the std wheel in the 17" size and the 215/45 x 17 tires like Australia and the UK. It would be great even as an option and has to be less expensive than the idiotic-priced BBS option.
Stephen, while I envy your cavalier financial disposition (down everyone, I know Stephen from way back on Edmunds), think long and hard about the WRX wagon. You've had a taste of the Legacy platform -- it's bigger. Are you willing to compromise the smaller interior for the better motor? The Impreza WRX wagon is but a hatchback -- the rear is quite short. A test drive will help sort out these issues.
Sit in the back seat (first place I sit in a car I'm buying, cause my friends are going to be sitting in those back seats) -- do you have enough headroom and legroom? How are the rear (sheesh, here he goes again) cupholders? Fold down the rear seat. Is the mechanism as easy as the Legacy's? Do the belts stow in recessed pockets to keep them out of the way when folding the seat? Can you fit a full-sized refrigerator in the back? Well, can't do that in your Outback either.
Course, I says this to myself not have sat in one nor compared the 01 Legacy and Impreza wagon specs. You asked for an uninformed opinion, right?
And they liked the RAV4 the best (Hyundai Sante Fe, Ford Escape and Mazda Tribute were also tested). They liked the RAV4 so much it nipped the Subaru Forester (by a razor's edge) for their 1st place recommendation. They had no data on the Hyundai, Ford, and Mazda relibility so they didn't factor that in at all.They also didn't mention any of the Ford and Mazda recalls.
Good ideas on the brochure. They still do not have final prints of the brochures, so I doubt I'll have them on Sunday, but I can give it a try. Pricing should be available on the new Impreza's very soon, so...stay tuned. Interesting fact I heard yesterday. Out of the initial allocation, over 50% are already sold. However, shop around. The supply should be fine in a month or so.
I haven't seen the color chip for the yellow. I think that will be available for the Chicago auto show.
Does anyone have any information on the possibility of Subaru also putting the 6 banger in the sedan and not just the wagon? I want the Outback Limited Sedan and would wait until 2002 model year if they are adding it to the lineup, if not I will probably get the Passat 4Motion. I am already going from an 8 banger and dont know if I can handle a 4 banger. Anybody know? I want the Subaru, HELP!
henne: I bet they will for 2002. Some dealers are already saying they expect one this fall.
CAFE makes things interesting. Subaru was right on the borderline of those standards, so the new engines HAD to be fuel efficient. Their EPA ratings are remarkable - easily class leading numbers.
The catch for the H6 is they geared it conservatively. That's why it's not so quick off the line (though I've heard passing is fine).
Colin: aren't those flares needed since the track is wider? I wonder how the sedan will handle compared to the wagon, i.e. if the improvement is worth it.
Stephen: the diffy protector is easy on Imprezas. There is no exhaust getting in the way, just bolt it on. A lot of those options are easy to install, so if the dealer is asking for retail, consider using Darlene instead.
17" rims look great, but how good are the roads in your area? That is a low, low profile, and rims are going to get bent left and right if you drive in DC, like I do. I'd only get them if I also had 16" rims for commuting and snow, then I'd save the 17"s for the track (only).
Color? You want sleeper, or show-off? Your call.
-juice
PS Given we'll see the WRX in person on Sunday, any thing specific you guys want me to look for and get photos of?
It was great joining the chat yesterday. I figured that I would order most, if not all of the accessories from Darlene if dealer is sticking to retail. Thanks about the diffy protector. I don't really want to show off(too much..). I really like the blue-blk combo but am tired of washing black cars. The silver really looks good on the WRX. I got an e-mail response back from dealer and am going there Sat AM to talk. As far as pictures of WRX....want everything :-). Seriously, anything you can think of would be great!!!
I just recently acquired a 2001 Outback Sedan (1 week, 300 miles). I was also hoping the H6 will be available sooner. I am however not regretting the 2.5l H4 in the car.
I have not taken the car into the mountains yet, but in the San Francisco Bay Area the car has more than ample power. I am comparing my experiences with the 1999 V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2001 Forester, 1998 Civic EX and a RAV4.
Do not under estimate that four banger. She is amazing. I would suggest that you take one for an extended test drive. The $5,000 on purchase price and fuel over the length of the car ownership savings may be worth the little slower car.
Otherwise, why do you not take the H4 Outback Sedan on a 1 or 2 year lease and replace it with an H6 when it becomes available?
I was actually referring to the Sierra mountains where the altitude could wreak havoc with a car's performance. The ski areas are between about 6,000' and 10,000' above sea level.
The 4 banger is just fine, especially in non-outback models (lighter). Even though the numbers show a slow 8-9 second 0-60 (still better than most SUV's) the passing power and torque of the engine is very impressive! Its also very smooth, and never sluggish.
We took the GT Limited Sedan up to the Sierra's twice this year. On both occasions, the engine was fine for power, but the auto-trans shifted a bit during the accent. But, we all know, Subaru's are designed for heavy duty situations, and the car was flawless at 6000+ feet.
In any case, the 165hp 166lbs of torgue H4 does NOT make the car "under-powered".
I've been keeping an eye on H6 prices since last fall and it appears that they are bottoming out. For example, over at Fitzgerald's Auto Mall they have 15 LL Beans and 8 VDCs that they are selling at invoice. A week or so ago they were asking $100 over invoice for the LL Beans and $200 over on the VDCs. I have only seen one H6 on the road so I am wondering how well these are selling. Is Subaru in trouble on the price or are we simply seeing a slowdown that's reflective of the general slowing of the economy?
I am also interested in folk's opinion of the air filter systems in the Outback. Is this a worthwhile option? I've seen some people expres the opinion that it is, but the job of replacing the filters at regular intervals is a real chore. Is this true? Given the choice, I might be tempted to go without.
Assuming you mean the interior cabin air filter, I have one in my Forester but honestly couldn't tell ya if it's made any difference in the passenger compartment air quality or not. Haven't had to change it yet -- and not sure if the procedure is identical in the Outback -- but it looks like it'll be simple enough to do. (And perhaps once it finally is time to change it, I'll be able to tell, by looking at amount of junk in it, whether it appears to have been doing anything useful.)
I also have the interior air filter on my 2001 Forester and am convinced that it works and works well. I drove the beast in some very dusty conditions (dirt roads during a drought) and the amount of interior dust was negligible. In fact, I have become very lazy about cleaning the inside - I really doesn't need it. :-)
Someone above questioned sales of VDCs. Here's anecdotal input: we ordered one, received it in four weeks instead of the promised eight; and while picking up saw three others As for two of them, I know that two of the thee had been there several weeks. This was in St. Louis -- not the strongest Sube market. Still, it gives you pause as to how hot these things really are ...
By the way, as mentioned here earlier, my wife is in love with her VDC, her third OB.
Bill: the margins for the H6 models are now about the same as for other models. When they were new, the margins were higher. Seems pretty normal to me. There are still no rebates on them.
I have the air filtration system on my Forester, but it's much easier to swap filters. Just two screws and slide a single filter in. With the OB I think you have to remove the glove compartment and there are two filters to swap.
Not that it's difficult, just that the Forester/Impreza is much easier.
Just like Ross, I've noticed a less dusty interior.
Judging by the (rich) yellow fork lift in the background, this yellow appears to be rather mellow—much like that of the yellow found on the VW beetle. This surprising. I thought Subaru would use an "intense" vivid yellow (like that used on the Honda S2000), to reflect the car's personality. Mind you, I don't dislike this yellow—in fact I DO like it—just surprised by it.
It's interesting to note that Subaru seems to be targeting a slightly older (read: more affluent, and sophisticated) audience with the WRX. This "mellow-yellow" fits that profile much better than an "electric-yellow." It's a shame they're limiting this color to only 300 sedans. This will become a collector model.
Comments
Talk about fitting into Subaru's new-found performance image... Yep. That's the ticket!
Bob
cheers
Gus
Bob
Bob
http://www.new-impreza.com/
Bob
http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_SUB/doc_sub0102011/article.html
-- First, you might argue that the most likely Subaru sedan customers are not necessarily like most mainstream American car buyers and would be more likely to be interested in a turbo (or, better yet, twin turbo). There's probably at least a little truth in this argument, but the catch is that Subaru undoubtedly wants to expand its U.S. market rather than just primarily appeal to people who are more likely to buy Subarus anyway.
-- Second, you could argue that rising gas prices could make fuel-thrifty yet spunky turbos look more appealing than 6-cylinders to American sports sedan buyers. I can't really pursue this argument very far because I actually don't know how the gas mileage in a turbo-H4 Legacy would compare with the mpg in an otherwise identical H6 Legacy. Also, unless the fuel-efficiency difference is darn impressive, I suspect it'd take a pretty sharp and sustained gas price hike to make the average U.S. sedan shopper prefer a turbo over a 6-cylinder.
Word is (speculation or fact??) that they're the same wheels used on the 22B.
Dennis
I believe the turbo WRX and H-6 have identical EPA gas mileage ratings (if I remember reading the WRX & H-6 brochures correctly).
Bob
-mike
The 22B used a similar wheel, but it was gold and 17x8.5, considerably wider than the 17x7 WRX optional wheel. The 22B "only" mounted 235/40-17 tires as well... yet Subaru of America recommends 215/45-17 on the new WRX. Considering that the 215/45-17 fits just fine on the 1st generation Impreza, what exactly are those ugly flares on the new WRX for anyway?
-Colin
Remember, the wagon has a narrower track, and doesn't have the blistered fenders. I wonder if the 17" wheel/tire package will fit properly (if at all) within the wagon's narrower fenders/wheelwells?
Bob
None of the options mentioned in Glenn Wallace's site (New Impreza.com) were listed.
The "mechanical specs" and "safety features" are listed with the usual Subaru degree of detail. However, "comfort" items have a very short listing. In fact, it's so short, it looks incomplete.
Since this was a early printing of the WRX brochure, I'm wondering if a more complete brochure will be forthcoming.
Patti- What's your take on this?
Bob
Dennis
Dennis
Also, on this page as well.:
http://www.cars101.com/ (toward the bottom).
Dennis
We should have a finalized brochure with all the candy ;~} really soon (by the end of this month). There will be one detailed brochure that relates to the WRX and another for the rest of the Impreza line-up.
Keep in mind - Because of the "nature" of the automotive business, dealers usually get the brochures before anyone (even us). So, if you have a relationship with a dealer, ask them to call you when they get the brochures with the vehicle release.
I hope this helps!!
Thanks,
Patti
Any chance of having "final" brochures on both the WRX and the rest of the Impreza lineup for our Sunday get together—as it will be past the "end of the month," and into the new month?
Again, thanks for the info!
Bob
Frank
Bob
I'm going to a Subaru dealer tomorrow to see what sort of deal they would be willing to make me. I love my OB Ltd wagon w/auto but not as much as I love the performance of the WRX wagon (yes, I will be going w/5-spd!). The trade-in on my OB Ltd w/all the options I have, condition (excellent),and mileage (about 10,600, bought on 2/18/00) is aprox $20k according to Edmunds. I financed about $20K and my payoff is about $13k leaving $7k for a downpayment. I figured on paying retail but am not going to divulge that to the dealer :-).
At retail, I figure the following:
Base price: $ 23,495
Dest. Chg: 525
183 Auto dimming mirror/compass
140 Center armrest extension
218 Upgraded speakers
267 Subwoofer/amplifier
225 Security system upgrade
260 Short shift kit
92 Differential protector
Total: $ 25,405
I figure I would order the cross bars and cargo net from Darlene. I figured I could put those on myself. I didn't want to deal w/putting on the protector though. I thought about the gauge pkg but at $ 638, forgeddaboutit!!
What does everyone think? Am I crazy for even pursuing it? You can be blunt!
Dangerously infactuated w/the WRX,
Stephen
The good thing about buying those items on the order sheet would be wrapping them into the loan, where they mostly become insignificant. The bad thing would be holding up delivery on your car due to an option not being in stock.
I'd pass on the upgraded stereo and speakers, having heard everything Subaru has offered to date and being thoroughly underwhelmed with everything except the VDC's McIntosh unit. (It was OK, but honestly not as good as I expected.)
Go for the 5 speed WRX wagon!
-Colin
You know, I realized that I've never heard the stock speakers and/or stereo w/o pwr amp. When I bought my OB Ltd it had it in it already. Eliminating the two items on the option list would almost pay for the $500 or so ordering deposit. :-) Now, what color??? I was thinking black but for once in my life I'm feeling somewhat partial to the silver on the WRX. I don't think that I would want to live w/the blue and the red is not moving me. The white seems too nondescript, maybe if it was pearlescent I'd like it more.
Stephen
-mike
In typical aussie style if I don't have anything stupid to say I shut up.
The bad news is I am back
cheers
gus
Bob
I sure wish that we had the std wheel in the 17" size and the 215/45 x 17 tires like Australia and the UK. It would be great even as an option and has to be less expensive than the idiotic-priced BBS option.
Stephen
Stephen, while I envy your cavalier financial disposition
Sit in the back seat (first place I sit in a car I'm buying, cause my friends are going to be sitting in those back seats) -- do you have enough headroom and legroom? How are the rear (sheesh, here he goes again) cupholders? Fold down the rear seat. Is the mechanism as easy as the Legacy's? Do the belts stow in recessed pockets to keep them out of the way when folding the seat? Can you fit a full-sized refrigerator in the back? Well, can't do that in your Outback either.
Course, I says this to myself not have sat in one nor compared the 01 Legacy and Impreza wagon specs. You asked for an uninformed opinion, right?
..Mike
..Mike
..Mike
I haven't seen the color chip for the yellow. I think that will be available for the Chicago auto show.
Patti
CAFE makes things interesting. Subaru was right on the borderline of those standards, so the new engines HAD to be fuel efficient. Their EPA ratings are remarkable - easily class leading numbers.
The catch for the H6 is they geared it conservatively. That's why it's not so quick off the line (though I've heard passing is fine).
Colin: aren't those flares needed since the track is wider? I wonder how the sedan will handle compared to the wagon, i.e. if the improvement is worth it.
Stephen: the diffy protector is easy on Imprezas. There is no exhaust getting in the way, just bolt it on. A lot of those options are easy to install, so if the dealer is asking for retail, consider using Darlene instead.
17" rims look great, but how good are the roads in your area? That is a low, low profile, and rims are going to get bent left and right if you drive in DC, like I do. I'd only get them if I also had 16" rims for commuting and snow, then I'd save the 17"s for the track (only).
Color? You want sleeper, or show-off? Your call.
-juice
PS Given we'll see the WRX in person on Sunday, any thing specific you guys want me to look for and get photos of?
Bob
-juice
I figured that I would order most, if not all of the accessories from Darlene if dealer is sticking to retail. Thanks about the diffy protector. I don't really want to show off(too much..). I really like the blue-blk combo but am tired of washing black cars. The silver really looks good on the WRX. I got an e-mail response back from dealer and am going there Sat AM to talk. As far as pictures of WRX....want everything :-). Seriously, anything you can think of would be great!!!
Stephen
I just recently acquired a 2001 Outback Sedan (1 week, 300 miles). I was also hoping the H6 will be available sooner. I am however not regretting the 2.5l H4 in the car.
I have not taken the car into the mountains yet, but in the San Francisco Bay Area the car has more than ample power. I am comparing my experiences with the 1999 V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2001 Forester, 1998 Civic EX and a RAV4.
Do not under estimate that four banger. She is amazing. I would suggest that you take one for an extended test drive. The $5,000 on purchase price and fuel over the length of the car ownership savings may be worth the little slower car.
Otherwise, why do you not take the H4 Outback Sedan on a 1 or 2 year lease and replace it with an H6 when it becomes available?
Daniel
-juice
The SF hills are fun though.
Daniel
We took the GT Limited Sedan up to the Sierra's twice this year. On both occasions, the engine was fine for power, but the auto-trans shifted a bit during the accent. But, we all know, Subaru's are designed for heavy duty situations, and the car was flawless at 6000+ feet.
In any case, the 165hp 166lbs of torgue H4 does NOT make the car "under-powered".
I am also interested in folk's opinion of the air filter systems in the Outback. Is this a worthwhile option? I've seen some people expres the opinion that it is, but the job of replacing the filters at regular intervals is a real chore. Is this true? Given the choice, I might be tempted to go without.
Bill
Ross
By the way, as mentioned here earlier, my wife is in love with her VDC, her third OB.
I have the air filtration system on my Forester, but it's much easier to swap filters. Just two screws and slide a single filter in. With the OB I think you have to remove the glove compartment and there are two filters to swap.
Not that it's difficult, just that the Forester/Impreza is much easier.
Just like Ross, I've noticed a less dusty interior.
-juice
It's interesting to note that Subaru seems to be targeting a slightly older (read: more affluent, and sophisticated) audience with the WRX. This "mellow-yellow" fits that profile much better than an "electric-yellow." It's a shame they're limiting this color to only 300 sedans. This will become a collector model.
Bob
It's like the previous gen M3 yellow. Yummy. Not bright that it will attract negative vibes.