The last-gen Forester turbos sold in Latin markets made 168hp, true, but much more torque and at a lower rpm than our 2.5l engines. 0-60 was a lot quicker, by a good 1.5 seconds or so.
But yeah, the new one makes 217hp.
Face lift for the WRX? It's amazing - sales have already doubled, imagine what a pretty face could do.
Though the big eye balls will always be a cult classic.
I'm sorry to see the oval headlight disappear. The (visual) problem is not with the headlights, but the extremely chunky front fender. If the front fender had a more graceful contour (like the new E-Class, etc.), the headlights would be fine.
WRX sales are absolutely off everywhere but North America.
It's not just the headlights, it's also that nearly 250lb curb weight was added while power was not really upgraded. (old UK turbo made 218 HP officially before, many thought that was understated a bit.) and of course added weight doesn't often help braking or handling.
Waiting until 2005 to buy my next Subaru is looking like a better idea everyday! There's the probability of a truly Grand touring Legacy, plus a revised-look WRX that might even have gone on a diet in the mean time.
Maybe the face-lift will include an aluminum roof and beams for both bumpers, like the Forester got. The Forester is actually lighter than the previous generation by 70 lbs.
If the Impreza is 250 lbs heavier, the difference is 320 lbs! Time for that Forester Diet.
Also, maybe they will change the fenders instead of the headlights, who knows.
XS means Crossover Sport, interesting. Guess they are capitalizing on the crossover trend since that's the next big thing.
Just say it out loud: XS. Like naming the old Chevrolet compact "Nova" in Spanish-speaking countries. Maybe it'd be prudent to avoid the "excess" and just go with the base model? Or will the XS be associated somehow with the Volvo XC?
Crossover trend isn't the next big thing, it's already been here a while. The trend is slowly back to wagons, and sport wagons at that.
We just recieved our MY2003 WRX Packet on what changes are coming about.
1. New Security System (Horn will not beap anymore, more suttle beap sound) 2. Light ignition ring 3. New front end grill 4. Visors will have vanity mirros with flaps. 5. Sonic Yellow - Sedan, maybe for the Wagon too?
I think that is it for now, I wiil keep you guys updated
Colin - I know you're a lease-hater but in some cases they can make a lot of sense.
Some people make the argument, "Why purchase something that depreciates in value? Just rent it". Others just *have* to have a new car every few years.
In my case, my financial situation was a little rocky at the time. My 95 Neon was becoming a money pit (unable to get ANYthing covered under warranty) and I had to get rid of it.
I really lost patience and had to get a Subaru. I'd thought about a used car, but didn't want to take a chance getting another money pit. I didn't want to deal with selling the Neon personally, so I took a $2000 loss on the trade-in. Making very low monthly payments allowed me to get back on my feet financially.
It was probably my last lease, but made sense at the time.
I had an escort money pit in '97, leased a '97 rodeo for about what I was paying in repairs per month on the escort. After that though I bought my next vehicle due to the fact that I gave em back a near new car after paying a ton of $.
is the mention of the company reorganization with a "holding company." I remember a while back reading that "FHI" was going to be re-named "Subaru," in honor of their 50-year anniversary, which is coming up very shortly. I'm wondering if that's what they're referring to?
Sorry to say but yes I'm leasing my outback 4 years 249.00 month . I was in a bad situation with my old car .My 96 honda accord was a money pit and looking like it needed a new engine.It was out of warrenty and I was getting the runaround with honda . If you guys think Subaru is bad wait untill you have to deal with Honda Of North America . So I said what the hell and bite the bullet and bought the car I always wanted .This way with a low payment I'm able to get back on my feet money wise that is .If the outback lasts as long as I think I may just buy the lease out at the end .
Thanks for the link, Bob. I love it that a Subaru Executive Veep is named Suzuki. All we need now is a CEO named Honda.
With WRX flying high and now the new Forester, it makes sense to gussy up Legacy. I wonder if this will be a car that reflects the talents of the new Greek stylist.
my guess is that it is just the current Legacy with the H-6. This model is already available in Japan, so, IMO, it just makes sense to offer it here too.
I don't think we'll see any real impact from the new Greek designer for a few years. At this point (this late in the game, and for MY03), all he could affect on the current Legacy, would be minor details, if that.
now that the GM/Subaru SUW has been canceled, if the next generation Legacy/Outback wagons will get three rows of seats? Or, will they develop a stretch-Forester of some sort?
I really think not having a vehicle with three-row seating will hurt Subaru in the future.
I see the "flagship Model" as a car somewhat larger than the Legacy, a true 6 passenger luxury sedan, with an H6 put out around 260-270 HP, maybe even a H8. The SVX would be covered by the following: " Instead they would be working together on a "sporty type of car" for around 2005. "
would need a beefier tranny, wouldn't it? probably would have to be 'in the works' by next year if they want to keep their word.
nonetheless, that would be quite an interesting setup. how would they offset the extra weight of the H8? can you imagine the torque that thing would have? arghh, arghh, arghh (in my best Tim the Tool Man voice).
Was wondering if Subie was going to produce a WRX looking sport wag.? When one was sitting next to the sedan, it looks reaaly differant looking in a way I WANT!.. Didnt look like a major issue. The sedans flares, both frt & re really make that car look ready for battle! Just wished that the wrx wag. had the same. Does Sube know this delema?? :-) Thanx Tmesout!
the "H engine format," is that you can build modular engines relatively easily, since they would all be in perfect balance with that 180º layout. If you add two cylinders to the existing 2.5, you end up with a 3.8 H-6. If you add four cylinders, you end up with a 5.0 H-8. Either engine would do fine in a "flagship" vehicle.
When they say "flagship," you gotta wonder, are they thinking about an Lexus/Acura-level car (in terms of market position), or just a slightly larger more more upscale car than the Legacy? Or, a reincarnation of the SVX?
Actually the H8 would probably take the VDC tranny w/o issue. An MT tranny on the other hand would probably not be offered since the only tranny in the stable is the 5MT which is just a beefed up one from the EA81 series engines (H4 1.8l carburated engine putting out 75-90hp)
I would love to see a true full-sized luxury car come out something with some real hp and what not. Can you picture something like an A8 type vehicle by subaru? Or even something slightly larger than a tarus? That would be great. But I can only dream.
Technically the stable also contains a heavily revised and strengthened six speed, but no one will give it any serious consideration until its use is widened beyond the limited-edition WRX STi.
Not sure a manual is needed for a sedan with an H8 though. A sport coupe targeting the likes of M3s, S4s etc. would need one no doubt. Not that Subaru should be in that market...
Since they're dropping the new SUW, I wonder if Subaru is going to revive the Exiga?
tmetravler - Most people like the wagon without flares for the sleeper look. Now if the sedan's flares looked like the 22B, that would be another story IMHO. :-) (check www.22b.com for pics)
Ed: I doubt Subaru minds that people think Volvo XC when they see a Forester XS. That's pricey company to keep.
I hope Sonic Yellos is a more powerful color than the last yellow they used.
Big news about the SUW. My guess is that Saab got that platform for the 9-3 and will do a crossover on that platform, so a Subaru would compete with it directly.
Am I going to shed a tear that Subaru will not use the GM platform? Certainly not.
But that brings back my 5 year old dream: build a Grand Forester based on the Legacy platform! It has to be boxy, boxy, the Forester is much roomier than a WRX wagon, especially in the cargo area, so that would be perfect.
Make it tall enough, maybe stretch the wheelbase 2-4", and it could even have a 3rd row of seats. That rear suspension is far more space efficient than the struts on the Impreza platform.
Standard engine should be the H6. Maybe an H6 or light-pressure turbo H6 option. There's your flagship, competing directly with no other GM product either (GM makes trucks).
That is the key phrase in that article. Folks, they mean BORREGO. Believe me. GM wants it bad.
Subaru probably didn't want a GM platform. That strategy hurt Isuzu, and Subaru sales have continued upwards without GM's help. The profits weren't worth ruining Subaru's reputation for reliability, so they axed it.
So, if GM does get a Borrego, Subaru will probably build a Baja-zito, or a small Baja, alongside the Borrego. Price it at or below the WRX wagon with the same powertrain and chassis, and you're golden. $22k street price for the quickest pickup on the market?
That still wouldn't be a flagship, so if they don't do a Grand Foresters, maybe they'll do an SVX. Subaru has not one coupe in the US market, and that is a gaping hole in their lineup.
Also this could be the General's hand at work. They may just start to use subaru as a design studio for their cars... not allowing them to climb out of their niche...
If they're allowed to stay in their niche, at least it means no GM clones.
I see the competition as more of a threat than GM itself, because everyone else is coming out with AWD wagons, a niche Subaru has enjoyed by itself for decades.
I really hope they leave the Legacy/Outback alone for the most part... I'd hate to see them get any bigger, what would I do in 15 or so years when I need a new wagon?!
The Outback is plenty big enough for me!
It was horrible to realize how bloated the Toyota Camry had gotten. Why does everyone think bigger is better?
The last thing I'd want in a vehicle is 3 rows of seats! Let Subaru build a minivan if that's what people want. Or a bus.
The yellow looks deeper; still does look a little flat though. I wonder if they'll speckle it with metallic gold for some gleamer in the sun. My recipe for sonic yellow
I will not buy another SUV smaller than a Suburban. Sound crazy? Not at all. I need not only a third row, but enough space behind it to fit all the items that regular SUV's can fit with no third row. Why? About once every two weeks, we take our kids on 3-5 hour trips to the hill country or to the ocean. We have two kids, our friends that we go with most often have 3 kids. That's 4 parents and 5 kids. I need seating for 9 and storage behind the third row. We currently take our Trooper and their Sequoia. Cut the gas consumption in half with that Suburban. They are going to do the same on their next truck so that we can trade off.
I was just doodling this AM and came up w/this proposal. It's very much like the RX-8 set-up w/the rear suicide doors and 2+2 seating w/a hatchback. Of course the power train would be turbo H4 or H6 and AWD. Sorry for the size of the image but this is my first time for posting a drawing.
I want to see a roadster, too, with my primary concern being weight. Yes, that means I'd ditch the power folding hard top. Make it a manual soft top with a defrosted glass window.
Cut 6" off the WRX wheelbase, drop the rear seats too. Give it the 217hp mill from the JDM Forester turbo - plenty of pep with good low end torque and decent gas mileage.
a modern-day SVX would cost? I could be wrong, but I think that's the type of flagship car they're talking about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a $40K car. I'd be very surprised if what they're thinking about would come in at $30K. That would be great, but I don't see that happening; not for a "flagship."
Here's a SVX roadster proposal. I decided to try a mid-engined version w/a little more advant-garde styling than a Miata since this will be Subaru's flagship and wouldn't be intended to sell in large #'s. The higher rear deck allows for a good-sized luggage area. I didn't want to do another "where do you put the luggage" Toyota MR-2. :-)
Comments
But yeah, the new one makes 217hp.
Face lift for the WRX? It's amazing - sales have already doubled, imagine what a pretty face could do.
Though the big eye balls will always be a cult classic.
-juice
Bob
Bob
It's not just the headlights, it's also that nearly 250lb curb weight was added while power was not really upgraded. (old UK turbo made 218 HP officially before, many thought that was understated a bit.) and of course added weight doesn't often help braking or handling.
-Colin
Jim
If the Impreza is 250 lbs heavier, the difference is 320 lbs! Time for that Forester Diet.
Also, maybe they will change the fenders instead of the headlights, who knows.
XS means Crossover Sport, interesting. Guess they are capitalizing on the crossover trend since that's the next big thing.
-juice
mike k
Crossover trend isn't the next big thing, it's already been here a while. The trend is slowly back to wagons, and sport wagons at that.
Just random thoughts.
Ed
-Colin
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showth...threadid=188302
We just recieved our MY2003 WRX Packet on what changes are coming about.
1. New Security System (Horn will not beap anymore, more suttle beap sound)
2. Light ignition ring
3. New front end grill
4. Visors will have vanity mirros with flaps.
5. Sonic Yellow - Sedan, maybe for the Wagon too?
I think that is it for now, I wiil keep you guys updated
Regards,
Chris
MAITA HYUNADAI - SUBARU >>
Bob
Some people make the argument, "Why purchase something that depreciates in value? Just rent it". Others just *have* to have a new car every few years.
In my case, my financial situation was a little rocky at the time. My 95 Neon was becoming a money pit (unable to get ANYthing covered under warranty) and I had to get rid of it.
I really lost patience and had to get a Subaru. I'd thought about a used car, but didn't want to take a chance getting another money pit. I didn't want to deal with selling the Neon personally, so I took a $2000 loss on the trade-in. Making very low monthly payments allowed me to get back on my feet financially.
It was probably my last lease, but made sense at the time.
My 1.5 pence,
-Dennis
-mike
• No GM/Subaru SUW!
• "Premium" Legacy for '03 (H-6?)!
• New "flagship" model for Subaru in 2005 (new SVX?)!
• An all-new minicar for the next business year.
• A 1.5 liter to 2.0 liter premium compact car platform in 2006 (next-generation Impreza?).
Bob
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=2282
A mini-car might help offset CAFE numbers.
A new flagship. I also immediately pictured a revamped SVX, since they also mentioned going down a more sporty trend.
Surprised about the SUW thing; wonder if they'll still venture into that territory (ie, larger platform) at a later date.
-Brian
Bob
Bob
Mike k
With WRX flying high and now the new Forester, it makes sense to gussy up Legacy. I wonder if this will be a car that reflects the talents of the new Greek stylist.
Steve
I don't think we'll see any real impact from the new Greek designer for a few years. At this point (this late in the game, and for MY03), all he could affect on the current Legacy, would be minor details, if that.
Bob
I really think not having a vehicle with three-row seating will hurt Subaru in the future.
Bob
" Instead they would be working together on a "sporty type of car" for around 2005. "
just my 2 cents
Yet another Serge
H8
-mike
nonetheless, that would be quite an interesting setup. how would they offset the extra weight of the H8? can you imagine the torque that thing would have? arghh, arghh, arghh (in my best Tim the Tool Man voice).
-Brian
:-) Thanx Tmesout!
When they say "flagship," you gotta wonder, are they thinking about an Lexus/Acura-level car (in terms of market position), or just a slightly larger more more upscale car than the Legacy? Or, a reincarnation of the SVX?
Bob
I would love to see a true full-sized luxury car come out something with some real hp and what not. Can you picture something like an A8 type vehicle by subaru? Or even something slightly larger than a tarus? That would be great. But I can only dream.
-mike
Technically the stable also contains a heavily revised and strengthened six speed, but no one will give it any serious consideration until its use is widened beyond the limited-edition WRX STi.
Not sure a manual is needed for a sedan with an H8 though. A sport coupe targeting the likes of M3s, S4s etc. would need one no doubt. Not that Subaru should be in that market...
-Colin
Since they're dropping the new SUW, I wonder if Subaru is going to revive the Exiga?
tmetravler - Most people like the wagon without flares for the sleeper look. Now if the sedan's flares looked like the 22B, that would be another story IMHO. :-) (check www.22b.com for pics)
-Dennis
-mike
I hope Sonic Yellos is a more powerful color than the last yellow they used.
Big news about the SUW. My guess is that Saab got that platform for the 9-3 and will do a crossover on that platform, so a Subaru would compete with it directly.
Am I going to shed a tear that Subaru will not use the GM platform? Certainly not.
But that brings back my 5 year old dream: build a Grand Forester based on the Legacy platform! It has to be boxy, boxy, the Forester is much roomier than a WRX wagon, especially in the cargo area, so that would be perfect.
Make it tall enough, maybe stretch the wheelbase 2-4", and it could even have a 3rd row of seats. That rear suspension is far more space efficient than the struts on the Impreza platform.
Standard engine should be the H6. Maybe an H6 or light-pressure turbo H6 option. There's your flagship, competing directly with no other GM product either (GM makes trucks).
-juice
Subaru probably didn't want a GM platform. That strategy hurt Isuzu, and Subaru sales have continued upwards without GM's help. The profits weren't worth ruining Subaru's reputation for reliability, so they axed it.
So, if GM does get a Borrego, Subaru will probably build a Baja-zito, or a small Baja, alongside the Borrego. Price it at or below the WRX wagon with the same powertrain and chassis, and you're golden. $22k street price for the quickest pickup on the market?
That still wouldn't be a flagship, so if they don't do a Grand Foresters, maybe they'll do an SVX. Subaru has not one coupe in the US market, and that is a gaping hole in their lineup.
-juice
-mike aka the grim reaper
I see the competition as more of a threat than GM itself, because everyone else is coming out with AWD wagons, a niche Subaru has enjoyed by itself for decades.
-juice
http://www.poweraxel.com/autosalon/as2002/image/sti1.jpg
Pastels are OK for Beetles, Miatas, small toys.
-juice
The Outback is plenty big enough for me!
It was horrible to realize how bloated the Toyota Camry had gotten. Why does everyone think bigger is better?
The last thing I'd want in a vehicle is 3 rows of seats! Let Subaru build a minivan if that's what people want. Or a bus.
They're not going to drop the Outback - it's their best seller.
-juice
-Dave
Jim
-juice
Stephen
Another thought is to do a Mercedes SLK; a 2-seater with a folding hardtop, using the H-6.
Bob
Stephen
I want to see a roadster, too, with my primary concern being weight. Yes, that means I'd ditch the power folding hard top. Make it a manual soft top with a defrosted glass window.
Cut 6" off the WRX wheelbase, drop the rear seats too. Give it the 217hp mill from the JDM Forester turbo - plenty of pep with good low end torque and decent gas mileage.
Under $30k MSRP, I want one in silver.
-juice
Bob
I'd rather see a low-priced Audi TT Quattro roadster.
-juice
Bob
Stephen