Just catching up in this topic and I agree with Ed, we seemed destined to get only old watered down technology here in the U.S. and unfortunately SOA isn't likely to ever give us the real reason. Of course nature abhors a vacuum so we spin our wheels speculating as to the why.
I vote that the Crew be appointed as members of the SOA Board of Directors! We could really turn Subaru into a leading-edge company whose name would become synonymous with quality and performance.
the Forester XT comes standard with leather, IIRC. I would also assume that to be the case here, as it will now be positioned the "big-cheese" Forester. There's also that rumor that it may only come with auto. God I hope that's wrong!
I too hope leather is NOT standard. My guess is that it will be, unfortunately...
the center armrest extension as becoming standard, same with the auto-dim mirror, and speaking of mirrors—I'm sure the wife would like lit vanity-visor mirrors.
Subaru has rarely offered us leather with a 5 speed, and I'm also hoping the turbo would come with a 5 speed.
In fact, if they only mate it to one tranny, it should be the manual. If you disagree, look at WRX sales, something like 87% are manual.
Frank: you sound like Piech. VW's costs are high, though, and I wonder if they'll survive a recession. They're already talking about cancelling the W8 engine.
as to how Subaru markets the Forester turbo in other markets, they're not going for the WRX-types. In the UK, the turbo has only around 175 HP, as I recall. So, I don't think as high a percentage of 5-speeds will be sold, as is the case with the WRX.
I want Steve Suzuki's 240hp road machine! No less. ;-)
But seriously, what I'd really love next time I'm shopping is a CHOICE. I want to see a Baja with the H6, the Legacy with the H6 and/or a turbo, and the turbo in the Forester. I mean, make it tough for me to choose, offer all of the above!
Don't force me into one choice because it's the only one that gets that wonderful engine (WRX wagon), even though the body style is sort of small for my needs. Today, I have to compromise. Why should I when all the good stuff is right there in the parts bin.
Well there, now you have two ranting Forester owners in chorus.
In all seriousness, I think the regulars on this board would make a good focus group for SoA marketing. I recall seeing a group mentioned on the i-club called the SIPP (Subaru Internet Performance Panel or some such) that was invited to do ride-and-drives and served as a focus group. Jamie Thomas (a/k/a "Subiegal", the amateur rally driver) was among the members of the group.
Ed (for whom SoA is a 45-minute drive from his house)
What I would really love to see happen (but most likely won't), is to have the turbo, not be a separate model, but instead be a stand-alone-option for *both* the X and XS Foresters.
Treat it just as another engine option, just like those found on American cars and trucks. That's one way to keep the costs down, and you're not forced to by other *package* items that you may not want. If you want all the bells and whistles, you buy the XS turbo; if not you buy the X turbo.
The other advantage of offering it as a stand-alone-option, is that it would make Subaru really unique among auto importers in doing so. I think it would be a great marketing advantage.
I can see, however, having a separate, premium model for the Legacy turbo, something with package features that would make it completely unique from the Forester turbos.
Of course, I'm referring the Forester to have a low-pressure 2.5 turbo, whereas the the Legacy would have a moderate-pressure 2.5 turbo, to further distinguish these models and their respective roles in the lineup.
SoA is about a 3 hour drive from my house, but with that turbo it would be more like 2 hours! LOL
OK, here's another thought. I was reading a magazine yesterday, and saw an ad for TRD, Toyota Racing Development. It said all their parts fall under warranty, BTW.
So, let's expand SPT, for real. Right now it's a catalog, nothing more, let's face it. I mean make it a whole division, like BMW M, Mercedes AMG, or Audi S. OK, maybe more like TRD, but still, factory forced induction and a warranty.
Think about it - CAFE would not apply, since they are installed afterwards. So just have SPT offer a turbo or S/C option for the 2.5l, maybe even the 3.0l engine. You could put that on any car for say $2-3 grand, but still have a warranty and even finance the costs.
I whole heartedly agree that we should have more choices based on the availability of engines/chassis in the parts bin.
One company (IMO) that does a great job of offering every permuation of it's engine and chassis is VW. Take the Jetta, for example. You can get it with any four of VWs engines without having to get the top-of-the-line model.
juice -- that's a great idea of having an official aftermarket tuning company.
That is a great idea...when I'm ready to give Michael my WRX (when he turns 35), I'll definitely want something a bit bigger, but with the same fun factor (B4 RSK!). Serge (1,000 miles from SoA)
P.S. Just got back from Delray Subaru, whom Don had recommended for service...oil change, tire rotation, fixing an annoying creak from the wood grain on the center console, ECU reflash...$57 including tax...good price for here in South Florida...Don, if you're reading this, you are right about Tim...good technician.
>>So, let's expand SPT, for real. Right now it's a catalog, nothing more, let's face it. I mean make it a whole division, like BMW M, Mercedes AMG, or Audi S. OK, maybe more like TRD, but still, factory forced induction and a warranty.<<
Subaru already has that division - STi. Just bring it here. The WRX STi will be a start. I'll stick my neck out and predict (omigod! Ed's predicting?) that STi will come here before long. Why do I say that? Because FHI has filed for trademark protection for STi with the USPTO. (Be right back with that link.)
Glad you were satisfied with Delray Subaru. I really heard good words about Tim before I relocated to Florida and he's done a great job servicing our Subarus!
Hope things are O.K. with you and that you still manage to stay in good spirits.
Dennis: That may be a function of the USPTO's search engine. Anyway, there you have it: FHI has registered STi as a trademark, opening the gate for sales of STi-branded parts and vehicles.
SPT, STi, I don't care what they call it, just bring it here for real!
Good to hear that, though. Just read that TRD has become a real profit center for Toyota. I'm sure they sell more body kits than supercharger kits, but who cares, as long as both are offered.
If they can build a Baja for $1800 less than an equivalent Outback, I think a Borrego could be pretty interesting at a street price of about $20k, no?
Maybe Subaru could build it. If they can get a full midgate to work, and a big sunroof, maybe it could replace my Miata as my toy. I'd be into something like that, for sure.
These are all good signs. It means we won't have a Subaru Cavalier w/Versatrak in our future. Bleech.
I liked the Borrego from the get-go. It would make a cool 3rd car, so long as it's mostly open and very quick. So I hope Subaru Baja-izes the WRX. I could more easily justify buying that vs. a Baja.
I like it, Bob. But it does visually lower it a lot, so it looks less SUVish and more wagonish. So that wouldn't fly in the USA.
I say leave the kit behind, or offer it from STi as an add-on, to keep costs down. Though we'll get the plain turbo, which won't have those gold wheels (OK if you buy a gold Forester only), those front and rear (!) strut tower braces, and those fog light covers.
Twin turbo H6? OK, I want 700 horsepower, but I'd settle for that! We are reasonable people, willing to compromise, see?
depends on how much boost you've got and how much of it you want at low rpm.
anywhere from 250-350 HP would be reachable. on the low end that would be an engine tuned for extreme low-end torque and it wouldn't be nearly like a 250HP naturally aspirated H6.
I agree with Bob, lose the STi plastic body panels and gold wheels. But leave the 225-series rubber on 17inch rims (at least as an option). Hmmm, a 216hp 2.0 liter turbo with good low end torque for excellent acceleration (0-60 in under 7 sec) and decent gas mileage, where do I sign up? Patti, please please please help!!!
Um... the text in the article I got about the Blitzen (from the above link) said that the 2 extra pistons (in the H6) REPLACED the 2 turbos. So it's an N/A H6.
I think you guys read that wrong... unless I missed something?
It's enough to make one cry: a 216hp STi Forester capable of zero-63mph in the high 6's that the reviewer says feels faster than the previous model's 245hp. Plus, he mentions that the non-STi JDM Forester XT turbo is listed as getting 32mpg.
The best news is, he ends the review with this:
"Oh, have I mentioned that America will finally be getting the Turbo Forester soon? Talk about good news."
He definitely makes the 2.0L turbo sound very palatable (at least in STi tune), but the 2.5L turbo is still the one I hope we see here.
Comments
In the previous generation Forester, SoJ positioned the 2.5L Forester (this one had AVCS) between the turbo and 2.0L NA model.
Ken
-juice
I vote that the Crew be appointed as members of the SOA Board of Directors! We could really turn Subaru into a leading-edge company whose name would become synonymous with quality and performance.
-Frank P.
Stephen
I too hope leather is NOT standard. My guess is that it will be, unfortunately...
Bob
Bob
Subaru has rarely offered us leather with a 5 speed, and I'm also hoping the turbo would come with a 5 speed.
In fact, if they only mate it to one tranny, it should be the manual. If you disagree, look at WRX sales, something like 87% are manual.
Frank: you sound like Piech. VW's costs are high, though, and I wonder if they'll survive a recession. They're already talking about cancelling the W8 engine.
-juice
Bob
Ken
Hey Paisan, do they make Altezza lights for your SVX? If they do, I'm sending you a set! ;~)
But seriously, what I'd really love next time I'm shopping is a CHOICE. I want to see a Baja with the H6, the Legacy with the H6 and/or a turbo, and the turbo in the Forester. I mean, make it tough for me to choose, offer all of the above!
Don't force me into one choice because it's the only one that gets that wonderful engine (WRX wagon), even though the body style is sort of small for my needs. Today, I have to compromise. Why should I when all the good stuff is right there in the parts bin.
Pardon my rant. Ed inspired me a bit.
-juice
In all seriousness, I think the regulars on this board would make a good focus group for SoA marketing. I recall seeing a group mentioned on the i-club called the SIPP (Subaru Internet Performance Panel or some such) that was invited to do ride-and-drives and served as a focus group. Jamie Thomas (a/k/a "Subiegal", the amateur rally driver) was among the members of the group.
Ed (for whom SoA is a 45-minute drive from his house)
(edit: see Bob's post below, and make that three)
Treat it just as another engine option, just like those found on American cars and trucks. That's one way to keep the costs down, and you're not forced to by other *package* items that you may not want. If you want all the bells and whistles, you buy the XS turbo; if not you buy the X turbo.
The other advantage of offering it as a stand-alone-option, is that it would make Subaru really unique among auto importers in doing so. I think it would be a great marketing advantage.
I can see, however, having a separate, premium model for the Legacy turbo, something with package features that would make it completely unique from the Forester turbos.
Bob
Bob (for whom SOA is a 2.25-hour drive from his house)
Bob
-Brian
OK, here's another thought. I was reading a magazine yesterday, and saw an ad for TRD, Toyota Racing Development. It said all their parts fall under warranty, BTW.
So, let's expand SPT, for real. Right now it's a catalog, nothing more, let's face it. I mean make it a whole division, like BMW M, Mercedes AMG, or Audi S. OK, maybe more like TRD, but still, factory forced induction and a warranty.
Think about it - CAFE would not apply, since they are installed afterwards. So just have SPT offer a turbo or S/C option for the 2.5l, maybe even the 3.0l engine. You could put that on any car for say $2-3 grand, but still have a warranty and even finance the costs.
Just a thought.
-juice
Subaru sells more 2.5l engines than Toyota does the engine in the 4Runner.
-juice
One company (IMO) that does a great job of offering every permuation of it's engine and chassis is VW. Take the Jetta, for example. You can get it with any four of VWs engines without having to get the top-of-the-line model.
juice -- that's a great idea of having an official aftermarket tuning company.
Ken
Serge (1,000 miles from SoA)
P.S. Just got back from Delray Subaru, whom Don had recommended for service...oil change, tire rotation, fixing an annoying creak from the wood grain on the center console, ECU reflash...$57 including tax...good price for here in South Florida...Don, if you're reading this, you are right about Tim...good technician.
Subaru already has that division - STi. Just bring it here. The WRX STi will be a start. I'll stick my neck out and predict (omigod! Ed's predicting?) that STi will come here before long. Why do I say that? Because FHI has filed for trademark protection for STi with the USPTO. (Be right back with that link.)
Links: FHI has filed trademark applications for STi in the areas of "Maintenance and repair of automobiles and their structural parts";
http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=jjn7qb.2.13
"Automobiles, their structural parts and their structural fittings";
http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=jjn7qb.3.15
and for "Towels of textile";
http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=jjn7qb.3.28
Ed
-Dennis
Hope things are O.K. with you and that you still manage to stay in good spirits.
Don
Ed
Good to hear that, though. Just read that TRD has become a real profit center for Toyota. I'm sure they sell more body kits than supercharger kits, but who cares, as long as both are offered.
-juice
-Brian
Maybe Subaru could build it. If they can get a full midgate to work, and a big sunroof, maybe it could replace my Miata as my toy. I'd be into something like that, for sure.
-juice
-Dennis
I liked the Borrego from the get-go. It would make a cool 3rd car, so long as it's mostly open and very quick. So I hope Subaru Baja-izes the WRX. I could more easily justify buying that vs. a Baja.
-juice
I don't care for the "ground effects" styling.
Bob
Let the discussion begin...
Bob (salivating uncontrollably!)
A TT H6 would be quite the Altima killer, eh? To dream....
I'm going to have to setup a filter to block out all Japan Subaru sites so I can't see all these things that never make it here.
-Brian
Michael
I say leave the kit behind, or offer it from STi as an add-on, to keep costs down. Though we'll get the plain turbo, which won't have those gold wheels (OK if you buy a gold Forester only), those front and rear (!) strut tower braces, and those fog light covers.
Twin turbo H6? OK, I want 700 horsepower, but I'd settle for that! We are reasonable people, willing to compromise, see?
Phase III? We didn't even get AVCS yet.
-juice
-Brian
anywhere from 250-350 HP would be reachable. on the low end that would be an engine tuned for extreme low-end torque and it wouldn't be nearly like a 250HP naturally aspirated H6.
-Colin
* 2 seat open sports/pickup, 227hp
* Legacy for the wife
* SUW for family trips
Heaven.
-juice
-Frank P.
I say put that in the Legacy now. It instantly becomes the leader in it's class in engine AND drivetrain.
-Brian
BTW, saw a bunch of L/SE models, in face I don't think we saw many L models without the SE package. Very nice, great value.
I noticed they even had body-color mirrors, something even Outbacks don't get until you get into very pricey models.
It's basically my wife's car with all our mods: alloys, moonroof, and CD.
-juice
I think you guys read that wrong... unless I missed something?
aric
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/sti_forester/sti_forester.html
It's enough to make one cry: a 216hp STi Forester capable of zero-63mph in the high 6's that the reviewer says feels faster than the previous model's 245hp. Plus, he mentions that the non-STi JDM Forester XT turbo is listed as getting 32mpg.
The best news is, he ends the review with this:
"Oh, have I mentioned that America will finally be getting the Turbo Forester soon? Talk about good news."
He definitely makes the 2.0L turbo sound very palatable (at least in STi tune), but the 2.5L turbo is still the one I hope we see here.
-Tom
Yeah, we've heard that before. I'll believe it when I see an official press release from Subaru!
-Frank P.
For a bread box, that is incredible. I don't think any current offering even get into the 7s, it would be in a class by itself.
-juice
See the conflicting messages we're getting!
-Frank P.