Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

No problem JPY. Yes, in states that have a sales tax consumers are required to pay it on leased vehicles. The method for calculating sales tax on leases varies from state to state. If the sales tax is part of your monthly payment, you will not have to pay it at lease signing.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

You're welcome djocks. Here's another for you. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2006 BMW 325i with an MSRP of $38,990 and a selling price of $36,500 through BMW Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $504.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Welcome morton72. Since you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

The rules on this subject may vary from state to state, but I would not be surprised if you were not allowed to transfer your plates from the vehicle that you are trading in to your new leased car because technically you do not own it, the bank that you are leasing it through does.

Most of the lease calculators that are available on-line are not all that accurate unless you plug in the exact selling price of the vehicle that you are interested in as well as the exact lease money factor and residual value that will be used to calculate its monthly payment. I can give you an idea of what this car's lease program is like if you let me know the exact model that you are interested in, as well as how long you would like to lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it.

Always remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you are paying cash for or leasing them. Manufacturers' advertised lease payments often leave a little meat on the bone so to speak. As a result, I would not be surprised if you were able to negotiate a lower lease payment than the one that is featured in the advertisement that you saw on the car that you are interested in.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

You're very welcome Uconn. The highest mileage allowance that Infiniti Financial Services publishes residual values for is 15,000 miles per year. If you need to drive more than this, you will have to purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until lease-end and have to pay a penalty for excess wear and tear. This car's money factor will be the same, regardless of how your allowed mileage.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi awgd8. How many miles per year were you allowed to drive your leased CR-V for? I ask because you may want to consider getting a higher mileage allowance on your next lease to avoid this hefty excess mileage charge. The only way that you can avoid having to pay an excess mileage penalty on your current lease is to purchase your truck. Some consumers who face large mileage penalties find that it is less expensive to purchase their truck and trade it in, dealers can facilitate this sort of transaction, than it is to pay the excess mileage charge. It is difficult to say whether this will be the case with your vehicle. Either way, it is in your best interest start your next lease with a clean slate. You will end up having to pay interest on any remaining lease payments or mileage charges that you roll into your next deal. Don't worry that much about Honda's special lease on the Pilot disappearing. It has been advertising a special lease with a payment between $269 and $279 for the past year now. While it impossible to predict exactly what manufacturers will do with their future lease programs, I personally would be shocked if Honda was not offering a similar lease on the Pilot four months from now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Don't be scared, LeasingScared. Leasing is a great thing, if you understand it and you have come to the right place to find out how it works. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2006 BMW 325i through BMW Financial Services right now for 36 months with 10,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00250 and 64%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 10,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00240 and 60%. With a waiver of your security deposit, this factor would increase to the .00250 that you were quoted, but the .00280 factor that you were quoted for the 3-Series is a little on the high side.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi Abigail. Vehicles residual values represent their expected value at the end of a specific period of time. In the case of the Element that you are interested in, American Honda Finance Corp. is forecasting that it will be worth 43% of its original MSRP at the end of your 4 year lease. This means that after four years, you can either turn your truck in and walk away from it (only having to pay any excess mileage or wear and tear penalties) or purchase it for a price that is equivalent to 43% of its original MSRP. I doubt that the dealership that is arranging this lease through AHFC for you is not residualizing your truck. Perhaps you are forgetting about the fact that consumers have to pay interest on leased vehicles. AHFC is currently charging an interest rate of around 5.5% on 2005 Element leases. This will have an impact upon the total amount that you will pay on your vehicle during your lease. The money factor that you were quoted, .00240 is right in line with AHFC's base money factor for a 4 year lease of this model right now. It is equivalent to an interest rate of approximately 5.76%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Here's the information that you are looking for aggietx. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL Base without navigation through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00240 and 57% respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00240 and 54%. 15,000 miles per year is the highest mileage allowance that AHFC publishes residual values for. If you need to drive more than this, you will have to purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until lease-end and have to pay an excess mileage penalty. Specifically, AHFC charges $.10 per mile at lease signing and $.15 per mile at leas-end.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

You're welcome Erdrick. Yes, .00113 is IFS' buy rate for a 36 month, 15,000 miles per year lease of a 2005 Infiniti G35X with the payment of a security deposit and its acquisition fee. Dealers usually have the ability to mark-up vehicles' base money factors to add additional back-end profit to deals. If you were quoted a higher factor than this, it is possible that it is being marked up. Unfortunately, I believe that consumers who lease in Illinois are charged sales tax on the entire price of their vehicle, not just their lease payment or the portion of it that they will use during their lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

No problem fsufan. This is a good month to lease a Ridgeline. Honda recently introduced a special lease on it that dramatically lowered its lease payment. The lease money factor and residual value that were used to calculate this truck's advertised lease payment are .00147 and 62%. The factor for an otherwise identical lease of an '06 Ridgeline RTL would be the same, but the residual value would drop to 61% (60% with the moonroof option). This truck's 15,000 miles per year residual values are 2% lower than its 12,000 miles per year residuals. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL with moonroof with an MSRP of $33,190 and a selling price of $30,000, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $354 with the payment of a security deposit and acquisition fee. The payment for an otherwise identical lease with 15,000 miles per year would increase to around $371. All factory installed options can be residualized, but I am not sure about any dealer installed options.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Welcome JLew. Since you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

In answer to your specific question, you absolutely should negotiate the selling price of the vehicle that you are interested in leasing. The advertised lease for the Murano that you saw probably assumes some sort of dealer discount, but you should be able to negotiate a lower selling price than the one that the ad was based upon if you shop around.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

You're very welcome natalie02le. Pre-paid leases are calculated just like normal leases with all of the monthly payments added together. The only difference is that most banks provide some sort of reduction in the money factor that is used to calculate the interest portion of pre-paid leases. It looks like in this case, BMW Financial Services normal lease money factor of .00250 is being reduced to .00210 because you are paying for your entire lease in advance. A money factor of .00210 is equivalent to an interest rate of right around 5.04%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

The dealer that you spoke with is correct, JPY. All banks that lease vehicles to consumers require the payment of a security deposit that is equivalent to vehicles' monthly payments rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 increment. Most banks will waive their security deposit requirements in exchange for an increase in the money factor that is used to calculate vehicles' monthly payments. You have the choice to pay a deposit that you will get back at the end of your deal (assuming that you are under mileage and your vehicle is in good shape) or to make a higher payment each month.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Welcome epiech. I have not seen Toyota's lease program for the 2005 4Runner V6 for the Denver region recently, but I suspect that this truck's buy rate factor is currently .00171 in your area. The residual value for a 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD leased through Toyota Financial Services right now should be 60% for a 36 month 12k lease. It doesn't make sense to lease this truck for longer than 36 months because that is the longest term that its special money factor is available for. If you lease it for any longer than that, its money factor will increase. You are correct, Toyota's customer cash cannot be used in conjunction with this special lease program.

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ms2kj · August 2005

Car_man,

ok, Here are the numbers that I've gotten for the G35 sedan lease. Let me know if this is a good deal.

Selling price - $33110
VA Tax - $1011 (Btw, does lease in VA taxed as a Sales Tax and not a Use Tax? And Also, is the sales tax on the MSRP of the vehicle or the selling price? The dealer is telling me that the tax is based on the MSRP price; MSRP: $35910)
Tags - $37.50
Doc Fee - $389
Bank Fee - $550 (Aquisition Fee)
TOTAL = $35080 (Total Cap Cost)

I've qualified for the lowest money factor rate offered by IFS on a 39 month lease so that's .00171. At 58% residual at 12000 miles a year, the payment is coming out to $461 a month.

Is this a good deal and what would the payment be if I put down $1000?

Thanks!!

Mike

bigdomer1 · August 2005

Can anyone confirm that this incentive still exists? Not listed on Edmunds anymore.

Thanks.

bigdomer1 · August 2005

I am still struggling to see how Toyota Motor Credit can set these residuals so low. I would love to lease one, but cannot justify it over the RL or the M35. In the past, it seemed like outside lenders were more willing to deal. However, I am finding that my Lexus dealer does not want to "shop the lease" to other lenders. Is there any way to get a lease committment from a national bank individually and then go to the dealer with a check (like Peoplefirst/CapitalOne does for purchases)?

crandleman · August 2005

Car_Man,

I was wondering if you could help me on a lease. I am located in Iowa.

2005 Toyota Camry Std. w/ Automatic Transmision

MSRP: $19,565
Sale Price: $17,700 (after $750 cash back from Toyota)
Miles: 12,000
Term: 36 months
Credit: Tier 1 rating

Thanks in advance for the help.

natalie02le · August 2005

"A money factor of .00210 is equivalent to an interest rate of right around 5.04%."

Yes, equivalent if you make 36 monthly payments over the next three years. NOT equivalent to 5% if you make ALL the payments up front.

And, in fact, my calculations have already shown that the prepay calculations are $2000 OVER AND ABOVE a properly calculated 5% interest paid on the residual (the part I'm not prepaying).

That is my point. Nobody in their right mind would opt for the prepay.

I could put the prepay amount in a savings account paying less than 0.5% interest and be able to pay out the "regular" monthly lease payments and have money left over at the end of three years.

In other words, I am getting very near ZERO advantage by paying all the payments up front.

That just makes no sense.

My analogy - this is me talking to the BMW finance person - "for the benefit of taking all my money up front, how about if I give you an extra $2000?".

From a purely financial standpoint, do you agree?, disagree?, am I missing something?

Thanks again - this is my new favorite forum!

kyfdx · August 2005

The prepay lease is figured, as though you weren't prepaying it.. The money factor is applied to the (Gross cap cost + residual), instead of the (Net cap cost + residual).

The discounted money factor is where the savings comes in... So, you can't apply the reduced money factor normally, as you would in a regular lease..

That said, .0021 isn't much of a discount from the base rate of .0025.... This makes me think that they wouldn't have offered you the base rate of .0025 on a regular lease.... and.. that .0021 isn't the base rate for a pre-pay lease.. I think it is probably marked up for extra profit..

So, you are correct.... The pre-pay lease money factor doesn't actually equate to an effective 5%... However, the normal base money factor is 6%.. and if they mark it up the maximum, it is nearly 7%..

If they are going to mark-up the money factor (and, I believe they have), then you would be much better off buying the car at 5%-5.5% interest..

regards,
kyfdx

shells2 · August 2005

Hi, I was wondering if you could tell me the current money factor and residual on a '05 Infiniti g35 coupe. Is it a bad idea to lease an '05 this late in the year if I'm not planning on purchasing the vehicle at lease-end? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to lease this car at this time or to purchase a different car. Thanks.

dfosher · August 2005

Does anyone know if these rates are accurate through BMW Financial Services for a 2006 325i?

My dealer quoted me?

36 Month - 12k year - .0030 and 62%
36 Month - 10k year - .0025 and 64%

What about a 42-month lease

Also, what is the excessive mileage rate? ,15 or .25.

petesamprs · August 2005

Car man and kyfdx - you guys are adding a lot of value here - thanks. I'm new here and have read through hundreds of posts. I noticed that many questions i) ask for data on residuals/MF, and/or ii) ask you to calculate a monthly lease pmt from provided data.

To save you guys some burden:
i) Is there a way to post residual/MF data for a car or group of cars in one post and then refer people to that post # when they ask for it? For example, each month post the 325/330/TL/G35 2yr/3yr 10k/12k/15k residual data in 1 post, then constantly refer ppl to that (since ppl ask about those cars a lot). There might be a reason why this isn't done already (let me know if there is).

ii) I feel I can contribute here - I have put together a very simple excel spreadsheet which is easier to use than most online calculators. After you guys confirm it's 100% correct, maybe we can post it somewhere online (I don't have a website) and refer ppl to the link when they want to run numbers and sensitivity analysis. That will save you guys some burden and help people better understand how the numbers are calculated (since you can see the formulas). Unlike other lease spreadsheets online, it's very simple - literally 1 column in excel. It includes another column for the "buy" case as well. (file size = 20kb).

let me know what you guys think. Just want to clear up some clutter on this otherwise amazing forum

kyfdx · August 2005

The money factor shouldn't change, as long as the length of lease is the same.. The base money factor is the same for 36/12K and 36/10K... .0025...

birdbird · August 2005

Hi CarMan,

I think I mentioned that I decided to hold off a bit on leasing a new RL because the local dealers would not coming anywhere near the deals what others have been reporting on this forum. I mean way more!

Do you have any information on whether Acura will be posting any new special lease on their website next month? And what day do they normally do that?

Also, I looked back on the "waybackmachin.com" and see that several years ago (I believe December of 02) Acura offered an amazing lease deal on the RL at their website end of the year, I think beginning November of something.

However, it seems that in recent years to car companies are posting lease deals that really are not very good at all when you add in the down payment, tax and so on. Have the days of seeing good deals at manufacturer websites gone for good in your opinion?

shonuff · August 2005

Carman,
Please give me your opinion on the following lease in the Cincinnati Region:
The dealer is offering the lease of a 2005 Toyota 4Runner V8 Sport 4X4:

Term 36 months/15K miles
MSRP $35,444
Selling Price $32,611 (which seems a bit high to me)
Due at signing $560
Residual = $20,024 (This should be 60%, but is not calculating as so. Could it be options that are not residualized?)
Interest = $982 (I calculate $581.87)
Tax = $881
Payment including tax = $401.41
Pre-tax payment should therefore = $376.94

He claims he is using a MF of .00030.

The numbers do not seem to be adding up to me. I am getting a pre-tax payment of $331 (monthly depreciation of $315 + interest of $16). If the numbers are correct, what is your opinion of this lease?

bdr127 · August 2005

I like those ideas.... I'd presume it would save Car_Man a lot of typing and also a lot of forum space to just post as many cars' MF/res as possible in one location. I would definitely be all for this.

sage23 · August 2005

Carman:

Seems like all of the local (Milwaukee) dealers have sold the last 2005 Odyssey EX's. Some dealers have a few 2006 models and others have them coming in soon. Have you seen any numbers from AHFC for the 2006 Odyssey EX for 3 years 36,000 miles?

chet21 · August 2005

Carman or any1,
Would you recommend leasing through third party lease company on the internet such as www.leasefax.com or www.leasebytel.com ? they seem to have better deals with zero downpayment. would they be able to get a lower mf than, say the BMWFS for example?

arielpeeri · August 2005

My lease is up and I have the option to purchase the car at certain price. Is this price negotiable?
Thanks Ariel

dfosher · August 2005

I noticed on BMW's web site (and my dealer just told me) that there was a price increase on the 325i and 330i for August? Edmunds shows a MSRP for the 325i as $30,300. BMW web site $31,595.

Any updates on the September lease specials on the 2006 3 Series?

kyfdx · August 2005

The price increase is for any vehicle that arrives at port after September 1st.. BMWs already on the lot now don't have the increase..

regards,
kyfdx

dxcoqui · August 2005

Ok, so now I am confused :confuse: . I have been reading on this forum for quite a while and came to the conclusion that whatever is said here is gospel. Well, if that is the case, the dealer that I am working with is not doing things right. I am looking to lease an M35x and my calculations for the residual have been off of MSRP. They told me NO, it is based on the selling price of the car. I qualify for VPP pricing which would have been nice, but now not so much. The difference in the monthly payment is around $60 and a deal breaker. Car_Man, I ask you, who is correct here??? :confuse: :confuse: Is there anything I can do. These people have been very nice and up front to me since day 1. The numbers are:

MSRP $46900
Selling Price $43600

Help...

peterz1 · August 2005

What's the best lease deal you found on the RR sport?

bdr127 · August 2005

Residual is based on the MSRP..... For example, if the MSRP = $40,000, and the selling price is $38,700, and the residual is 60%, then the vehicle will have a lease end value of $24,000 (60% of $40,000). If your dealer is telling you it is 60% of $38,700, then they are just flat-out wrong.

foxyroxy · August 2005

Hi Car_man: I'm interested in a BMW Z4 2.5 Lease and was wondering if the 59%residual value for the 36 month lease is the same for the 24 month lease with .00100 money factor. Also, do these numbers change at the end of August?

glgphd · August 2005

Carman,

>

Thanks for the infor. It is helping me keep local dealers honest. Unbelievable what BS one rep just gave me over the phone: An AHFC money factor of .00295 with 60% residual for 36 months with 10,000 miles per year. I challenged this based on your information and he came back and said "oh, with a security deposit it would be .0024" I then said I thought that a security deposit was included in the $1982 total due on delivery." He said he'd have to go back and check with his manager. I'm waiting.

glgphd · August 2005

Hi Carman,

I'm thinking of leasing an M35 for 36 or 39 months, 10K miles/year. Yesterday, I was quoted a .00213 leasing factor and a 63% residual for a 39 month lease supposedly offered by Infiniti Financial Services. What is their current residual and money factor for 10k miles/yr at 36 and 39 months?

Do residuals and/or money factors ever depend on where one lives (I live in Jacksonville, FL) or what packages one gets (Sport, Technology, Journey).

I love this forum and I find your information is very helpful.

Thanks in advance,

NolongerleasingscarednowthatI'marmedwithyourinformation

Bushwack · August 2005

Carman,

Along with glgphd's request, would you please also disclose the MF and residual for 12K and 15K miles/year for the M35?

Bushwack thanks you.

ch7656 · August 2005

Haven't started shopping it hard yet...initial meeting with my local dealer (speaking with the fleet manager...always) yielded 500-1000 back of msrp with a 56% residual and a .00227 MF through US Bank / Bank Fee 595 / Too early for me to tell how good of a deal this is...still gathering info

ps- Im in SoCal

x021627 · August 2005

car man; I'm looking for rates for lexus es330 for 36 mos. and 15k miles. Selling price is $32509. Help!

idjiot · August 2005

Hi Carman!

I'm a first time poster/buyer/leaser. After much shopping, I've decided to lease a 2005.5 A4 (24 months / 10k). I found the car that I want and the dealer seems to be a cut-to-the chase kind of guy. I told him that another dealer said the money factor was 1% with a 70% residual based on the national lease program and he actually corrects me and tells me that it's a 71% residual (although he was vague about the money factor...something about .0087).

Anyhow, here are the numbers he's given me - can you please tell me if there is room for more negotiating? Every time I run the numbers myself it never seems to add up.

Car: Audi A4 Automatic 2005.5 with Premium Package, Lighting Package, Navigation, Audio Package, 17" wheels, Headlight Washer, California Emissions, Metallic Paint

MSRP - $36,995
Current Offered Price - $35,142 (he says that it is $500 above his cost)
Out the door - $3,444.50
Monthly - $366.12

I'm also interested in increasing the mileage from 10k to 15k - any estimates as to how much this should cost? He also mentions two charges that seem...odd:

1. Southern California Ad Association - $264.06
2. Prep & Handling - I forget but I think it was about $350

As I said, this is my first time so ANY additional information from experienced buyers/leasers would be appreciated!! I'm located in Los Angeles in case that matters.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Don't worry about it, it happens all the time. OK, x021627, according to the latest information that I have seen if you were to lease a 2005 Lexus ES 330 without navigation through Lexus Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00140 and 54%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi rblnr. You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the truck that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this truck's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to give you my opinion on this lease if you let me know what these numbers are.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Sweet choice in vehicles Chris. Land Rover did an excellent job with the new Range Rover Sport. It is expensive though, even to lease. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2006 Range Rover Sport HSE through its captive finance company right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00285 and 57%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

I'd be happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this car for you, djocks. However in order for me to do so I need you to provide me with its full MSRP (with the destination charge added in).

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hello Dave. I do not personally follow manufacturers' lease programs for the Canadian market, so if you live there I cannot help you out. However if you are just flying your Canadian flag here in the U.S. I can. BMW Financial Services current buy rate lease money factor for a 36 month lease of a 2006 BMW 530xiT is only .00195 with the payment of a security deposit. As you can see, the factor that you were quoted looks to be a little on the high side. You should try to negotiate further with this dealer or perhaps comparison shop with a few others. The selling price that you were quoted looks reasonable to me, but you may want to stop by the following discussion to see how much other community members have paid for similar vehicles lately: "BMW 5-Series: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hey Mike. The lease money factor and residual value that you were quoted to lease this car are right in line with Infiniti Financial Services base lease program for it. The selling price that you were quoted looks reasonable to me as well, though you may want to stop by the following discussion just to see how much others have paid for similar cars lately: "Infiniti G35: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". I just calculated a lease payment on this car using the numbers that you provided in your post and I too came up with $461 per month. This deal looks good to me. I am not personally familiar with how sales tax is calculated on leased vehicles in your state, but you may be able to find out by visiting one of the following links: Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles or Virginia Department of Taxation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Yes, bigdomer1, the $2,500 dealer cash on leases of the 2005 Acura RL through American Honda Finance Corp. is scheduled to run through September 6th.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Unfortunately, bigdomer1, most major independent banks that offer attractive lease programs on vehicles only conduct business through dealers and do not work directly with the general public. I doubt that you will be able to find a bank on your own that has a more attractive lease program on the 2006 GS 300 than the one that is being offered by Lexus Financial Services right now.

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