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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Hmmm...even if competing against BMW and Audi it will still have to undercut on price. There is no current S4 (last-gen Avant stickered at $43,300, S4 sedan at $40,850); S6 Avant stickers at $58,700. M3 coupe stickers at $46,500. No wagon equivalent in BMW lineup.

    I'd venture that it will have to come in under $40K US fully loaded to have a shot at selling.

    Ed

    (edit: checked the roof, yes it's a next-gen car.)
  • joybelljoybell Member Posts: 275
    I am getting my red Impreza, keeping my 1993 Loyale wagon (just can't bear to let it go), and now I found a 1985 sedan "Berline" in perfect, rust-free condition here: http://www.hebdo.net/v5/result/affich.asp?sid=44KEOYK10456936&rubno=4000&pa=5&pr=1&cregion=1011


    It sure would be nice to buy and keep in one of our sheds for another 20 years, then take out as an antique! What do you think?


    Should I take it too?

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it will be priced lower than the Audi S4 or BMW M3, when it arrives, but probably not by much.

    I'm assuming the 2.5 turbo will remain part of the package, or the H-6. I think those vehicles will be the "bread-'n-butter" performance Legacys. I think the H-6 turbo will be like the Impreza STi—rare & pricey.

    Bob
  • joybelljoybell Member Posts: 275
    I am getting my red Impreza, keeping my 1993 Loyale wagon (just can't bear to let it go), and now I found a 1985 sedan "Berline" in perfect, rust-free condition here: http://www.hebdo.net/v5/result/affich.asp?sid=44KEOYK10456936&rubno=4000&pa=5&pr=1&cregion=1011


    It sure would be nice to buy and keep in one of our sheds for another 20 years, then take out as an antique! What do you think?


    Should I take it too?

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    depends on how it's equipped in the $40k range, and of course performance is CRITICAL.

    but the M3 for $46k is deceptive. they can be optioned well into the 50s and often are.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Go for it! :)


    Parlez-vous Français?


    Bob

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294128

    Sounds like a rather extreme measure to keep the MSRP down...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    170 hours and 22 minutes (as of this time of posting) until we learn if the new STi gets a 2.0 or 2.5 engine!

    Bob
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Is that Greenwich Time???? :0) and have you synchronized your clocks???
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Now that we are facing the prospect of being held hostage at the gas pumps again, (it is already heading skyward in Canada as I write)I think it is about time auto makers started getting serious about alternative fuel vehicles.

    Government could also chip in, one way, download some of the gas taxes we pay onto the people who like to drive gas hogs I:E. if you want to drive a pig that gets 10 miles to the gallon pay more of your share of the gas tax, if you drive a fuel efficient car like us responsible Subie owners pay less of your share of gas taxes.

    Cheers Pat.
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    hondafriek:

    I concur with you about the need for fuel efficiency. Sadly, when I read these Subaru Crew boards, whenever the subject of what we want to see in future models comes up, most of the comments ask for longer, wider, faster, larger engined Subarus. That means more oil will need to be imported from our wonderful friends in the Middle East.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    actually we're getting more and more of it from Canada and Venezuela. well, the later a bit less now that they've having a civil war-- or something near it.

    the US is a petroleum EXPORTER to Asia; mostly Japan. crazy stuff, eh?

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If that vehicle makes it to our shores, I might have to ditch the SVX and the Trooper and buy one.

    :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Sadly, when I read these Subaru Crew boards, whenever the subject of what we want to see in future models comes up, most of the comments ask for longer, wider, faster, larger engined Subarus. >>

    Most of the people posting here are avid car enthusiasts, hence the desire for more power. That's not to say they (we) don't have any social concerns. If that were to be the case, thee would be far more posts requesting 5+ liter engines, which is clearly not the case. In fact, a number "Crew" members have a strong distaste for SUVs and large pickups, or anything that is needlessly wasteful.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm the TPI of the group.

    Token Politically Incorrect :)

    5+liters + AWD = Wheeeeee!

    After 9/11 I live for fun and myself. Life is way too short to worry about anything else!

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I have to agree with Bob, Blane. It's been my observation on the web as well as in person that most Subaru owners are pretty practical and realized that the Subaru line meets their needs without the excesses of other vehicles. The AWD (of all models) and raised undercarriage (of most models) gives them the rough-road and all-weather capabilities of a light truck or SUV without the bulk. While not as luxurious as competitors from Audi, Volvo and an increasing number of makes, they've been shown to be more reliable and cheaper to maintain than those competitors. Finally, the performance aspects of Subarus have only been emphasized in the North American market since 1998 (with the advent of the Impreza 2.5RS) and have really taken off with the introduction of the Impreza WRX, which is classed as a LEV and fairly fuel efficient given its power. Obviously no Subaru can do the heavy hauling and towing of a large SUV or light-medium duty pickup, so they're not all things to all people.

    The flip side of course is that the WRX runs on premium unleaded and the boxer engines and AWD drivetrain aren't as efficient as maybe they could be. Improvements in aerodynamics could help both fuel efficiency and styling, something Subarus have been criticized for over the years.

    I believe that Bob has already touched on the introduction of performance diesels by BMW, and Peugeot recently showed running prototype diesel sports cars (called Diamonds and Spades IIRC). So the potential for others to explore that market exists. I won't get into politics here but leave to everyone's own thoughts what government's role in mandating or staying out of requiring alt-fueled vehicles should be, not to mention the conflicts caused by lobbyists and the personal financial interests of elected officials.

    I'll just stick to cars and say these are exciting times for enthusiasts, whether due to new technologies or current world events.

    ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    an unrepentant car nut, I appreciate most all types of vehicles; from the micro-cars found in Japan, to the huge Caterpillar dump trucks found only in mining quarries.

    I've also often been an advocate here of large SUVs and pickups. Having said that, I "do" have a problem owning a very "inefficient and wasteful" vehicle. Our Explorer is right on the borderline, IMO. I can't wait for gas (or diesel) electric hybrids become the norm for mid and full-size SUVs and pickups.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Ed - Didn't you see an alternative fuel Forester at one of the Euro car shows?

    -Dennis
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    If it is true that there will be a turbo diesel that is good news. Also I hope Subaru considers making a hybrid like the one that they showed off at auto shows last year. For that matter maybe they need to take a look at what Acura did with the prototype AWD sports car hybrid that gets 400+ hp and 40 mpg. Any thing is possible with the kind of engineering knowhow that Subaru has. In the meantime I must admit to being somewhat convoluted. I consider myself an environmentalist and I had a CRX at one point that easily got over 40 mpg highway. But now I have a WRX. After last weekend's 30 mpg trip in it I guess I don't feel too guilty.

    TWRX
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Yes, Dennis, I did. I forgot to mention that! There were two cars at the Bologna International Motor Show, a Forester and an Impreza wagon, with the naturally aspirated EJ20 designed to run on LP as well as gasoline.

    Ed
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    High performance vehicles and good gas economy do not have to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, it is possible to have your cake and eat it.

    Like most of the members on these threads I am a total car nut, I like most us would love to have performance vehicle and like I said above good milage and performance are possible.

    In europe where gas is much more expensive than here diesel vehicles are the norm, gas vehicles are in danger of becoming an endangered species, diesel = more miles per gallon,engines usually last at least twice as long as gas engines.

    Also less maintenance no tuneups, the downside is that they are harder to start in cold climates, but that can be overcome I am sure.

    Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    from the guy over at NASIOC who took the pictures of the turbo Forester & STi up in Alaska:

    2.5 Turbo Forester In Alaska
    Just to add fuel (albeit only 90 octane here in Fairbanks) to the debate, the Turbo Forester that was up here cold weather testing with the STi a few weeks ago was a 2.5 turbo.

    On one of my forays by Subaru's hideout, the Forester was parked with its hood propped open. I took a careful look inside the engine compartment. It was the typical turbo setup with TMIC, etc, but varied in its arrangement of certain components, compared to my WRX. Of significant note, however, was the factory engine specification sticker that plainly stated "150 CID".

    This, "150 CID", translates to roughly 2.5 liters, n'est pas?

    Unfortunately, the STi was never left unguarded with its hood up.


    That pretty much says it all for me...

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    "Government could also chip in, one way, download some of the gas taxes we pay onto the people who like to drive gas hogs I:E. if you want to drive a pig that gets 10 miles to the gallon pay more of your share of the gas tax, if you drive a fuel efficient car like us responsible Subie owners pay less of your share of gas taxes."

    Pat- In a sense that's already happening because the owner of a gas hog has to fill up that more often thus paying more in taxes.

    Honestly, I don't think you'll see a significant move away from gas guzzling behemoths until the cost of a gallon goes above $2 and stays there.

    -Frank P.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I guess thats the case in Europe where the cost of gas is astronomical, the rule over there is small cars and a large number are diesels, someway or another The people on this continent have got to change their wasteful ways in regards to the consumption of oil.

    It really gets up my nose when you see just a driver with no passengers commuting along the freeway in Lincoln navigators and ford Excursions and the like.

    Cheers Pat.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Why do we care so much about how much oil we use etc???? When the Oil is gone, then we'll use another form of energy. I fail to understand the whole conserve oil thing. It only makes use dependent on other countries for longer!

    Sorry for being selfish, I live for today, for myself. Been too close to death to worry about things such as when the world oil supply is gonna run out.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    we're getting OT, but the oil supply isn't going to run out. what if it were a byproduct of the Earth's geothermal processes and not actually long-dead plants & animals? hmm... ;-)

    and paisan, I'd live for others before I lived for myself. but that's your call.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    going off-topic, but I echo Colin's sentiments. I'd be much more concerned about my family and my community, than myself.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Not trying to make this jump on mike day but the living for yourself and today outlook usually goes out the window the minute you have kids.

    -Frank P. (who is kid-less by the way)
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Bob,

    This is getting veeerry interesting!!!

    Ken
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    This really muddies the waters for the next purchase. All I can say is that I'll have to drive it back-to-back-to-back with a WRX wagon and any higher-performance Legacy wagon that may show up before I choose.

    Ed
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I used to be selfless, til I saw 2 planes smack into the WTC live. After that, I have become quite selfish/live for today in my attitude. Kinda makes you step back and realize you might as well have fun cause you never know when you are gonna get plucked up from here....

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I really doubt we'll learn much if anything about this next week at Detroit. My guess is that show will be devoted to the STi, and the facelifted Impreza lineup. The Baja Sport may also be announced, since it's now on the their media site.

    http://www.media.subaru.com./

    My guess, would probably be New York, in April, for the Forester, and not Chicago. I think Chicago will be devoted to the Baja turbo. I'm sure that will be the same engine that goes into the Forester.

    Bob
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    I really don't like the politics of oil. I figure if we use less then we import less. I'd rather spend my import dollar with the Japanese buying a Subaru. Although I do not have children I wish to leave a good situation for the next generation. The more we use in terms of fossil fuels the more we contribute to the greenhouse effect. It is stupid to drill the arctic for 6 months supply of oil. Fortunately hydrogen fuel cell cars will take care of this (as long as the hydrogen extraction is done with electricity produced by non-greenhoouse means like solar, wind, tidal or eventually fusion.)In the meantime conservation just makes sense. If we were all driving 30+ mpg cars then we would no longer be slaves to oil prices. This is in theory a free economy where law of supply and demand rule. There is no reason why SUV's can't get far better mileage other than Detroit's greed for shoving poorly engineered antiques on us.
    TWRX
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on Monday's Detroit '04 Impreza press announcement!


    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/announcement.php?s=&forumid=63


    Bob

  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Bob, just got out of chat - where were you? Very light turnout.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I completely forgot! Sorry...

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Didn't miss much. Pat and I lamented the financial situation of the Ottawa Senators hockey club and I chatted about how inexpensive it is to get into the old car hobby with a Studebaker as opposed to other makes. Brief discussion of the Baja Sport intro.

    Ed
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    those World Premieres at car shows really make you want to go out and buy one. Just saw the EVO on streaming video. Pretty cool. 19 psi, $28,9xx.xx for the price. But, I need a Legacy.

    Jim
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Why is this place dead, no messages in the last 2 days ?

    Folks, check out MSNcarpoint preview of the Detriot show.....very nice ones.....esp BMW X3(outback version of 3 series) & Maxima(looking like a boat ! getting bigger every year!)
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    weren't they working on a hybrid which uses the electric motor for when AWD is necessary and just gasoline powered 2WD at other times?
    it was a concept car they had a year or two back only.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Hmmm. Wonder if the mini-van will be the Traviq.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    but then again, maybe not. I'm sure it will be an all-new boxer-engined (Subie!) vehicle.

    Bob
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    2.5 turbo STi, w/ 300 hp and 300lb/ft of torque. I need to get up off of the floor.

    Jim
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Holy cow! I just pooped in my pants! So it was true -- 2.5L TURBO!!!!

    And, it's the DOHC version so not the same EJ25 Phase II we see here in the US.

    Ken
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Wow. The future is here. What a halo car for Subaru and more than a counter to the much-hyped Lancer Evolution VIII. Now let's see some performance Legacy and Forester variants for the proles.

    Ken, that's TMI. ;-)

    Ed
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    that settles it in my mind, the B4 or Legacy 2.5t GT, or whatever, will be a detuned version of that engine with 275'ish hp, and, if we ever get an STi Legacy, maybe 330 hp?

    Jim
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