Subaru Crew - Future Models II

locke2c · January 2003

I think if you have a big wing and a loud exhaust *and* are driving like a fool, then yes you'll attract the attention of the law.

Otherwise, nah. Wings are too common these days, and compared to many aftermarket jobs the STi's wing is actually pretty tame.

-Colin

ateixeira · January 2003

The true STi wing looks factory. Flamboyant yes, but still OE looking.

I've walked into a couple of low budget speed shops, and they custome make their own body skirts and spoilers. Some of them are basically painted bondo with a metal netting frame, there is a huge difference from a quality factory body kit.

-juice

rsholland · January 2003

from www.autoexpress.co.uk:
"350bhp Impreza Muscles In"

"Things move fast at Subaru... very fast. Although the new Impreza has only just arrived, the firm is already plotting to unleash an STi model that could end the Japanese supercar debate with Mitsubishi once and for all.
A senior source at the company told Auto Express: "Subaru has something quite special in the pipeline. We're now working on a 3.0-litre turbo Impreza for Japan and Europe that will generate in excess of 350bhp.
"Unfortunately, we're having teething problems with the transmission as the current WRX STi six-speed box isn't capable of handling the torque the engine produces." Several solutions are being investigated, with the most popular being to ask a company such as Getrag, which has much experience in building heavy-duty gearboxes, to work on the transmission.
But before you race down to your nearest dealer, bear in mind how long this is likely to take. Development of the car is said to be very complicated. Our source suggests we won't see the 3.0-litre turbo powering a Subaru until the next Impreza model change, due in 2007. However, anyone wanting a taste of what's to come should be aware a muscular 3.0-litre normally aspirated engine - the platform for the turbo unit - will be used in the new Legacy, here in June. Subaru says the non-turbo will pump out close to 240bhp, which is 25bhp over the current car's output.
The company also plans to scrap the twin-turbo 2.0-litre engine that powers the Japan-only Legacy B4 - a car British Subaru fans had coveted. This motor will be replaced by a 2.0-litre single-turbo B4, which will use the unit that debuted in the Impreza STi. The reworked Legacy arrives next year.
Peter Lyon" </>

Bob

subearu · January 2003

rsholland · January 2003

is indeed going to offer a H-6 turbo in the next-generation Impreza STi, that's about as clear a signal as I can think of, that the Subaru "brand" is moving upmarket.

So, what's next? An H-8 turbo STi for the next-next-generation Legacy? It could also mean that the rumored new "small" Subie, slotted under the Impreza, could make its way here to satisfy those who are income-challenged...

Bob

paisan · January 2003

MMM bob don't tease me like that.

-mike

subearu · January 2003

imagine the growl that boxer 8 would make!

-Brian

ateixeira · January 2003

I think a 240hp H6 is just the ticket for the 2005 SUW I just might be buying. More than that is just gravy, but not really necessary.

I think a 240hp H6 that ran on 87 octane would be ideal. Honda managed it from just 3.0l, so Subaru could too.

350hp sounds sweet, but it'll also mean nose-bleed price levels that I'll likely never be able to justify. Sure, bring it on, though.

Now that we'll have all these higher powered upscale models, I'd really like to see the base engine upgraded with AVCS and maybe 180hp. It's time.

-juice

rsholland · January 2003

I wonder if we'll see any upgrades to the '04 base 2.5 engine? If so, we may hear about it at the Chicago show. I'm assuming details on the other Imprezas will be revealed then, along with the turbo Forester.

Bob

wrxsoon1 · January 2003

When is that exactly?

Hmmmmm....I'm thinking my waiting for the new Legacy could be a very good decision indeed. I finally test drove a WRX wagon last week and what a great car, though I would definitely prefer more room (for any backseat passengers) and maybe a bit more luxury. I've been holding out for the facelifted '04, but my wait may be extended with all this talk about the new Legacy's coming.

Keep the rumors flowing Bob!

Thanks,
-Ian

rsholland · January 2003

begins 2/14

http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/

Bob

subearu · January 2003

FWIW, I'll be heading to the show on Wednesday, February 19th.

I too am curious as the where the Legacy is headed.

-Brian

hondafriek · January 2003

I too am curious about what direction the Legacy is going, but for me it is also a moot point because barring winning a lottery the Titan is going to be with me for another 8 years.

  Besides I really love this car, and it would take a lot to make me part with him, although I am a certifiable car nut, I cannot see any other car making me any happier than I am with what I have.

  I feel that if we count on an STI, or B4 or Blitzen to make us truly happy we are constantly doomed to failure,the new wears off any car in time and then we are looking for the next thing.

  For evidence of this just look at the number of WRXs for sale since the announcement of the STI.

Cheers Pat.

subearu · January 2003

My car history has been never keeping one for more than 3 years. Situations change, needs change, etc.

I already know I want to replace my Outback with something else. I know it'll be another Subaru, that's for sure. We have a mini-van now, so having a wagon isn't necessary. But, I wouldn't rule it out since they are versitile.

The Imprezas are a bit too small for my tastes. And I do like the room in the Outback/Legacy. My dw won't have anything to do with a manual, even though this would be my car. ;-) VTD has my interest, so does VDC. Also of interest to me is a H6, and of course, the TT H4. (mmmm, turbot)

I'm sure I might develop a yearn for more power as time goes by, but I have to be practical too with #2 coming in June. A LPT H4 or sportier H6 would be just enough to curb my appetite.

-Brian

rsholland · January 2003

While nothing has yet been announced by SOA, I think it's pretty safe to assume that the rest of the '04 Impreza lineup will be introduced, and there's a good chance that the '04 Forester turbo will be too; perhaps even the complete '04 Forester lineup. Going on that assumption, here's what I *hope* to see:

'04 Impreza
Detail updates, such as:
 Lit ignition key ring for all models.
 Lit power window switches for all windows, like those found on the '03 Forester.
 It was announced that the '04 WRX gets a cruise engaged light. I would hope that all Imprezas get that too.
 Cruise on/off switch incorporated into the cruise control stalk.

'04 Forester
Detail updates, such as:
 Lit ignition key ring for all models.
 I hope they re-wire the cruise engaged light so that it only appears when the cruise control is "being used," and not just "on," which is the case now.
 Cruise on/off switch incorporated into the cruise control steering column stalk.
 Make the front center armrest console standard on XS & turbo models.
 I'd like to see all tires become blackwalls, and get rid of the white-lettered tires.

'04 Forester turbo
Detail updates, such as:
 2.5 engine with ~ 220 HP.
 A tow package with at least 3000 pound capability.
 Both automatic and 5-speed models available.
 Seats from the WRX, covered with Ecsaine fabric.

Bob

hondafriek · January 2003

A lot of people have a 3 three year cahnge routine, I was refering to the people who change sometimes on a 3 day routine or when the next new thing comes along,in this case they are forever behind the eight ball because in a short space of time what they own is already old hat.

Cheers Pat.

subearu · January 2003

I'd also like to think that perhaps one day I might find a vehicle and keep it for 5+ years. But, it gets hard to do so with new models and new technologies these days.

-Brian

hondafriek · January 2003

My problem also is that I do so much personalising to my cars that they become members of the family,LOL.

I have added so much to the Titan already I just cannot see me starting over with another car for a long time, new models do not do it for me anymore like when I was younger.

Now having said all that if somebody was to make me a present of a Blitzen, that would be an entirely different story, but the Titan would still stay in my stable.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · January 2003

Sandy will be 5 years in August, but I'll have to keep her for probably at least a year after that. I like her as much as the day I bought her, so that's OK. The turbo will be tempting, though.

Bob - I'd add a couple of things they cost-cut out of the 2003 when it came out - mud guards, cargo liner, and cargo cover. Especially the first two, which sort of keep it clean, inside and out.

A rumor has the price increasing by $300 next month, if so I hope it's because those 3 things are being made standard.

-juice

gvmelbrty · January 2003

ApexJapan.com rumors says the upcoming new Legacy, Forester and Bajas will all be 2.5L turbos, and not the current 2.5L engine, but the new 2.5L the STi gets (which may mean AVCS for all as well), "featuring power in the 220-260hp range with gobs of tarmac destroying low-end torque."

http://www.apexjapan.com/rumours/main.html

Yummy!

.

-tom

rsholland · January 2003

<< And contrary to rumours otherwise, that is not an existing 2.5-litre block adapted to a high-pressure lifestyle, but is indeed a whole new block designed for pooowaaah. >>

Is this the first of the long-rumored Phase III engines? Does this mean all 2.5 engines will eventually get this new engine block?

I guess this confirms those who stated the current 2.5 couldn't handle a turbo upgrade.

Bob

lucien2 · January 2003

would be fine, but IIRC there is no manual gearbox that fits the shortblock....

:^(

subearu · January 2003

I suppose I'd settle for an H6 with a sport-shift VTD. ;-)

-Brian

ateixeira · January 2003

Leave that combo for the Outback. I really see the OB having the H6 standard, and the Legacy going two ways - 2.5l AVCS for the L and L/SE and 2.5T for the Legacy GT.

Hope that rumor is true, but the source isn't always reliable.

-juice

kens · January 2003

While I'll personally bet on the Legacy, Forester and Baja turbos getting the 2.5 block, I'm not convinced that they would get the AVCS heads right away.

I wonder what'll happen to the EJ25 Phase II engine. Will it stay or change to the DOHC engine(even without AVCS) used on the STi?

Ken

rsholland · January 2003

Along that same line of thought, will the Forester and Baja turbo be DOHC or SOHC? If it's a low-boost engine, the need for DOHC is far less. In addition, a SOHC would keep costs down.

Bob

kens · January 2003

True, but then again, has Subaru ever had a SOHC turbo engine? I think all the JDM models with turbos use DOHC.

Then again, only the USDM ever got an SOHC engine. It could be another first.

Ken

allhorizon · January 2003

AVCS is the only way to combine a broad torque band with fuel savings and low emissions. Why wouldnt all new 2.5l engines be fitted with it? Subaru should have enough practical experience with it by now to make it reliable and inexpensive. My guess is we will see it in the new turbo Forester. It should provide the engine with even more low-end torque than the current NA Forester  exactly what you would want to do for marketing reasons if you de-tune it at the higher RPMs. More power throughout the band than some V6s. What is there not to like!

- D

rsholland · January 2003

I've said this before. I'd like to see the Impreza Outback Sport to be re-labeled as the Impreza RV, just like it is in Australia. Perhaps then give it the tagline: "Son of Outback."

Then offer an Outback Sport model as another version of the Legacy-based Outback, but with the low-boost 2.5 turbo!

Bob

rsholland · January 2003

Paul Hansen (apexjapan.com) commented, but did not deny them...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30- 8900

As Ken is so fond of saying: "Man, this is really getting interesting!"

Bob

rsholland · January 2003

Interesting nasioc thread on the '04 Forester:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3278- - 635

And an even more interesting quote from Paul Hansen, responding to a poster's question, from that thread:

Okay, so let's fantasize for a few secs that the 2.5T will be available later this year.

It's not a fantasy, mate. It's happening.

Seeing the extra space, my wife would opt for the Forester, however, it can't match the performance and looks of the WRX wagon.

Actually, the first generation of Forester turbo was a bit faster through the slalom than a GC8 WRX turbo of the same vintage. The current Forester turbo is lighter than an equivelant WRX Turbo in Japan. Not only that, but it rides on a wider wheelbase with bigger rubber. Yes, it rides higher, and it's boxier, but it handles *very* well despite that. I drove a Forester turbo with STi suspension bits behind a Prodrive set-up STi, and at what you can sanely do in non-track conditions, it didn't give up much. And my definition of sane is just a bit higher than most folks.

Do I have an argument or am I spinning my 17' wheels? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Forester sit on the Impreza chassis, only it's taller/boxier?

A variant of the Impreza chassis. By definition, so is the Legacy. What it does mean is that you have a Impreza with a slightly higher centre of gravity, which is offset by the wider track and rubber.

I really don't want to give up driving a fun, yet functional car. Would any of you opt for the Forester if you were in my shoes?

As a reporter that's driven the entire lineup of Subaru high-power turbo's (that is currently available), with a choice of either the WRX turbo, the STi, the Legacy B4 and the Forester Turbo (I'll ignore the Pleo ), my money vote goes this way:

1) Legacy B4
2) Forester Turbo
3) Legacy H6 GT
4) STi
5) WRX turbo

And to be honest, because of the interior on the Forester, I'd have a hard choice between the B4 and the Crossport version of the Forester Turbo. If your ego can handle the looks, the Forester turbo is literally the best buy out of Subaru. However, I don't know the full American pricing yet, and that will be the final determination.

But don't be mistaken about this. A Forester 2.5-litre turbo won't be just a little bit faster than a WRX 2.0-litre turbo - it will be a lot faster than it in all situations except all-out track driving. The only thing that would subtract from that possibility is if Subaru does indeed only sell the 2.5-litre turbo with an automatic. However, that would be a 5-speed automatic, so it would still be a very close battle.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

Whew!

Bob

ateixeira · January 2003

Dunno Bob, I like the Outback Sport label. Anything with "Sport" in it appeals to young people. I'm sure the Liberty Sport is the best selling Liberty model.

RV kind of sounds like something that would appeal to older folks.

The Outback Sport you're planning is the Legacy GT.

I hope Paul is right, 225hp/240ft-lbs for the Forester? Man that is serious torque! 10 more of each for the Legacy, and both with FIVE speed shiftronic?

NOW you're talking. Ed's gonna have to change his pants!

If the manual is a year away, that's OK, I can't afford to trade mine in this year anyway.

-juice

rsholland · January 2003

seems pretty certain that we will get the long-rumored 5EAT in the Forester turbo!

Bob

rsholland · January 2003

for MY04, Subaru should be in line for "Carmaker of the Year," not just "Car of the Year." With so many great models to choose from, how could you just choose just one model?

Bob

locke2c · January 2003

AVCS has serious advantages for cold-start emissions. I think we'll see it on other models besides the STi for that reason sooner than a performance "need". A four-valve four cylinder with a turbo alone fixes many performance "problems". ;-)

-Colin

ateixeira · January 2003

The 5 speed auto is overdue. And while shiftronic is pretty cool, Subaru is late to the party with that, also. Even the cheap Outlander has that.

The segment is getting crowded and the main thing Subaru has to distinguish itself is that it was the first.

But that's what Jeep was to SUVs, and look at how poorly their sales are now. Competitors are eating their lunch.

They have to innovate, at least keep up, if not lead, the segment.

-juice

rsholland · January 2003

is Feb 12 & 13. We should know by then what Subies plans are.

http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/index.asp?id=646

If Subaru introduces both the turbo Forester and turbo Baja at Chicago, what will they introduce at NY? The all-new Legacy I bet, which would indeed make it an '04 model, and not an '05 model as originally predicted!

It's hard to believe Subaru would introduce so many new models in one year! I guess we'll know, or at least have a much better idea, in two weeks!

Bob

ateixeira · January 2003

That would put them on a 4 year cycle, because the current generation came out in 2000.

That's a good idea, though, I think competitors have really ramped up the latest generation. 90s was about cost cutting, but this decade is about horsepower and features.

Sales for 2002 were down for the first time since 1995, when the Outback was launched and they went AWD only. They want to reverse that trend, which takes some radical thinking when there are more and more competitors.

-juice

kens · January 2003

Wow, such exciting news! The arrival of the 5EAT is long overdue. However, I was guessing that Subaru would only offer the turbo Forester with an automatic -- I hope that's not true.

The thought of the new Legacy intro being pulled in is very exciting! More choices for me when I'm back in the market. :-)

With a turbo Forester and 5EAT or a Legacy GT turbo, I think I won't fall to the dark side.

Perhaps the USDM new model intros will become synchronized with Japan for once!

Ken

kens · January 2003

juice,

Yes, the competition really has heated up in the mid-sized sedan market over the last few years. Begining with the Altima, the Accord and Mazda 6 have brought higher levels of performance to a once ho-hum market.

Subaru has typically competed against main stream sedans by offering extras like standard AWD but also a little more grunt. 165HP used to be pretty decent. The bar's been raised!

Ken

tincup47 · January 2003

As Jeep's Grand Cherokee (#3 in 2002) and Liberty (#5 in 2002) are still in the top ten in sales and the Wrangler is still the best selling classic off-road SUV, I don't think they are getting their lunch eaten yet. The Grand Cherokee is overdue for an update, but sales have not fallen off dramatically as of yet, they actually increased over their 2001 numbers.

subearu · January 2003

I'm really anxious for the Chicago show now. I know the Legacy probably won't get revealed there, but we'll get confirmation on the Forester and Baja (fingers crossed!).

I'd have no problem car shopping this fall for a 'new' Legacy. ;-)

-Brian

lark6 · January 2003

If Paul Hansen's posts are accurate, erm, yeah, there will be no need to consider the WRX wagon as an option. Which is fine by me as it will draw less scrutiny from the law enforcement and TFATF crowd.

Ed

ateixeira · January 2003

Altima offers 175hp in the base model, never mind the V6 upgrade. Subaru's output isn't bad, but they're heavier vehicles with AWD, so they need to be better than average, not just average.

Jeep's market share has eroded, though. Sales for the class were way up, and they failed to capitalize on a market they once owned.

-juice

rsholland · January 2003

Canadian Auto Sow is roughly the same time as the Chicago show. 6 new Subies to be introduced, 2 of which are the STi and Forester turbo!

http://www.globeandmail.com/globemegawheels/20030130/covert.html

Bob

ateixeira · January 2003

Hmm, "by launching six new and revised 2004 models", that has to include models already shown elsewhere.

I figure they are the 2004 WRX, the 2004 STi, the Forester turbo, the Baja Sport, the Baja turbo, and ...

#6 is the big one. Next Legacy? Seems too soon.

-juice

rsholland · January 2003

STi, WRX, RS, TS, Outback Sport and Forester turbo. The STi and Forester turbo are getting the early headlines, which would suggest that the Baja turbo would probably be introduced at NY... along with the new Legacy/Outback, I would assume.

Bob

tincup47 · January 2003

Considering the evergrowing number of available SUV's in the last 3 years, they still have very respectable numbers. It would be hard for any line of vehicle that was at the top to keep the same market share. The Grand Cherokee has only fallen 1 spot as it was #2. The Ford Explorer has been the top selling SUV since 1992. But while sales numbers have been strong, the increasing number of competing vehicles in the marketplace has diluted any of the established brands market share. It becomes much harder to keep market share as the number of available choices grows. I'm sure that Honda's, Toyota's or Subaru's share of the Small SUV market has not increased either, even though their sales are strong. the addition of other small SUV's will tend to make everyones slice of the pie smaller.

ateixeira · January 2003

Agreed, but my point is Jeep has been sort of stagnant as far as developing it's best sellers. Their life cycles seem to be 7-12 years long.

Subaru's market share has fluctuated between 0.9% and 1.1%, but up until 2002 it had been increasing.

-juice

cptplt · January 2003

Isn't that the same essentially as Vtec from Honda and VVi or whatever from Toyota? I have read vtec engines have a lag in response which makes bad turbos look good. Is that true?

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy