Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hello crandleman. I believe that Iowa is in Toyota's Kansas City region. If you were to lease a 2005 Camry through Toyota Financial Services in that area right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 55%, respectively. The customer cash that Toyota is currently providing on this car cannot be used on special leases through TFS.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Natalie02le, lots of consumers pre-pay leases. Whether or not one should pre-pay depends upon the reduction in the lease money factor that you receive for doing so. If the total cost of your lease is reduced by an amount that is larger than what you could reasonably expect to get from investing the pre-payment money and you have enough liquid assets, it is a good idea.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

I would be happy to give you an idea of what this car's lease program is currently like, shells2. However, in order for me to do so I need you to tell me how long you plan on leasing it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. It is difficult to say what the lease program for the 2006 version of the Infiniti G35 Coupe will be like when it is first introduced, so I can't really say whether you should lease now or wait for the new model. I can tell you though that the current program for the '05 model is not terrible. Leasing it this late in the model year will actually make it less expensive to purchase at lease-end because its residual values are a little lower now than they were several months ago and likely will be on the '06 model when it hits dealers.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi dfosher. The money factors that the dealer that you are working with quoted you don't make sense because manufacturers' factors do not vary depending upon the mileage allowance that you choose, only their residual values do. It looks to me as though for some reason the dealer that you are working with is planning on marking-up BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for this car, .00250, if you decide to lease it with 12,000 miles per year, but not if you lease it with 10,000 miles per. The residual values that you were told are wrong anyhow. BMW FS' residual value for a 36 month, 12,000 miles per year lease of a 2006 325i is currently 63%. It is 64% for a 10,000 miles per year lease of this ar for this term. The .00250 money factor is available on 42 month leases of this car, but its 12,000 miles per residual value would drop to 55% and its 10,000 miles per residual value to 56%. On this car, I believe that BMW charges an excess mileage penalty at lease-end of $.20 per mile.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Thanks for the suggestions, petesamprs. I am glad that you enjoy this discussion so much. We are actually in the process of reevaluating how some of the discussions in this forum are structured and plan on making changes in the near future. We will take your suggestions into consideration.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hey birdbird. I believe that Acura's current lease program on the 2005 RL is scheduled to run through September 6th. It is difficult to say what its new September lease program will be like for this model at this point, but if I had to make an educated guess I would say that Acura will try to maintain a similar monthly payment to the one that it is currently advertising on it. You are right, Acura had some amazing lease deals on the RL several years ago but that was a completely different, less expensive car than the redesigned RL that is available today. I doubt that you will ever see this model advertised at those prices again, at least not for a long time.

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timmboj · August 2005

Hi Car_Man

I may look into leasing the re-freshened 2006 Saturn Vue. Do you have any particular lease information for a 2006 model? I've not seen many facts and figures on it. Am I gonna get screwed because they want to get rid of the 2005's first?

Thanks.

alex123 · August 2005

Hi Car_man,

I am looking to lease Nissan Altima 2.5S or 2.5s special edition for 24 or 36 month (whatever it is a better deal), 12000 miles. Do you know the numbers?

Thanks

dfosher · August 2005

Thanks Car-man. I actually confronted my BMW salesman about why his dealership is charging .00300 instead of .00250 like everyone else. He said its a way to increase their profit margin on the car. Hey, at least he was honest about it. So he plans to make profit on the sale and on the financing. I will hold him to the .00250. Also thanks for the residual updates.

My last dilemma is to purchase the car before August 31 to avoid BMWs price increase or wait till September when rumor has it that BMWFS is going to enhance the lease program on the 325i. Any suggestions?

galant00 · August 2005

HI carman.. 2005 INFINITI FX35 AWD with touring package and sport package.. INFINITI has a real attractive lease that i have my eye on.. 39 month lease, 10,000 miles a year, 0 security deposit, 3,399 dollars down due at signing.. i have a relative who is going to give me the VEHICLE PURCHASE PRICE. MY question is if I use the VPP can i get this deal? i dont want to put 3,000 dollars down.. i will pay the first payment. IF i use the VPP and i get this deal my payments should be lower than 399 right? thanks for any help you can give

kyfdx · August 2005

If you are looking at a car already on the lot, it's price won't go up on September 1st.. Only cars in port after that date get the price increase..

And, if you are ordering, all cars ordered now will have the price increase...

So, the only risk in waiting is that the lease terms may get worse...

regards,
kyfdx

newmanba · August 2005

Hi Carman, I was hoping you could help me.

I am looking at leasing a 2005 Lexus RX330 AWD with premium plus and navigation. Sticker is $45,083 and invoice is $39,500. Lease term is 32 months with 12k miles. Dealer has quoted me a purchase price of $40,300 ($500 over invoice plus marketing fee) and payment of $499 with $2,900 upfront (taxes, first payment, $1k lease initiation). Is this a good deal? Should I consider waiting for a 2006 model?

Thanks for the help.

dfosher · August 2005

Thanks kyfdx. My salesman just called and located me the exact BMW 325i I want. It is scheduled to be in port on August 26. He said I would incur the price increase because I would take delivery in September. (?) Also, he went from .00300 on the money factor down to .00285. I told him this is not negotiable and it should be .00250 per BMWFS. He also won't take less than $1,600 over invoice (the difference between invoice and MSRP). Does this sound excessive? Should I find another dealership at this point? Any advice would be great. Thanks.

kyfdx · August 2005

That is cutting it close... It all depends on the sticker on the window... If it makes it pre-price increase, it isn't like they re-sticker it at the dealer...

If you aren't making a security deposit, then .00265 is the base rate.. with a security deposit, it is .0025...

$1600 over invoice sounds okay, if you get the base rates.... Of course, in September, the rates could change..

regards,
kyfdx

guy999 · August 2005

Hi, I'm trying to get a lease on an acura tl, but I'm having some difficulty. The dealer is quoting 32755 on the acura tl, which is $200 over invoice. They say that that is there invoice price, but I think that's just salesman talk, and they also say that I don't have to pay the sales tax because of some sort of acura program. However My payment is coming up at $519 a month.

I checked and they say that residual is 56%, they won't tell me money factor over the phone, but i think it's .00240 because that's what I have read from the forums. The lease I want is 15k miles per year and 36 months.

when I plug in the stuff into expert lease pro, i get about 1800 in markup, that I can't figure out what it is. The dealer is about 30 miles away from me, so I don't really want to drive over there if I don't have to. I am trying to put nothing down, but they are going to make me put down first months payment and some other deposit. It's about $800 and then roll overthing else into the payment. I don't want any cap reduction. I have very good credit. My last score when I checked was 750.

Am I missing something because it seems like it should be 480 a month...

HELP!

guy

dfosher · August 2005

kyfdx, I'm paying for the security deposit up front so I should be entitled to the base rate of 00250. I fell ridicules fighting for a standard base rate. Is this published anywhere? What if I call BMWFS? I feel like this is going to be the deal breaker (equates to $20 more per month). But its the principle.

He told me that this morning BMWFS has kept the lease program the same for September 2006 on the 325i.

kyfdx · August 2005

1) I guess you really aren't entitled to anything.. you have to negotiate for it.. Some dealers mark up the MF by .0004 (the max allowed by BMWFS). In the end, they don't have to disclose the MF... But, I'd try to get the base number. BMWFS really stays out of negotiations. In other words, they are within their rights to mark it up, within the limits set by BMWFS..

2) I doubt your dealer knows what the September program is... though, it may have leaked out early, considering price increases and other variable coming up in September..

regards,
kyfdx

aggietx · August 2005

guy999,

1) If the TL already has pinstripe & tint, the dealer will claim $200 more to cover the cost of the above. I ran into this at the Infiniti dealership - He said that was why he needed $500 over invoice. I call it BS - It doesn't cost $200 for the above because Infinii does it to probably 75 cars at a time. Just a way to juice profits up a bit.

2) Does Acura have tax credits available?? Infiniti currently has 100% tax credits for the G35. The Acura dealer i'm dealing with did not tell me about that, but I didn't ask. Shame on me! I got a quote on a TL-Non-Nav for right at invoice price w/o haggling a bit. I'm in Texas.

3) I was told by CarMan the resid. for 36 months with 15,000/year is 57%, but it looks like you're considering Navi, so it may be 56%.

4) How do you like expert lease pro? I am either considering expert leas pro or lease wizard. Does lease pro give you full options listing & residuals. Also, I was told lease pro gets residuals from Black Book instead of ALG. I think Lease Wizard uses ALG. Please let me know. I am planning to purchase one in the next few days.

5) If there are no taxes rolled in, the payment sounds a little on the high side. If Acura was offering .00140 MF like Infiniti is, I would buy an Acura today, especially if they have tax credits.

aggietx · August 2005

galant00,

Who is eligible for the VPP and what exactly does it mean? Below invoice or invoice?

qbrozen · August 2005

VPP is sometimes offered to employees of companies that have some sort of business dealings with Nissan. (my company is one)

Its a very complicated computation (way moreso than it needs to be), which, in the end, comes VERY close to invoice price (a hair under for nissan and a hair over for infiniti).

As a matter of fact, here is the deal, according to the VPP site:
For Business Associates, the VPP price is calculated as follows:
Dealer invoice
Minus VPP discount (Nissan 2.87% : Infiniti 1.65%)
Plus dealer added options, Security Plus, etc.
Plus 2.5% delivery fee of dealer invoice after VPP discount has been subtracted
Plus destination and handling charge
Minus applicable incentives
Equals paticipant's purchase price

carnaught · August 2005

Just took possession of a leased 325i for 24 months. I discovered that the car did not have the 6cd player I wanted (only a single one). The salesman thought it did also. Now they want to charge me another $985 to my lease for it. I think that is outrageous and unacceptable. Question is, if we don't agree to a compromise figure (I'm willing to go $400), can I opt out of the lease. I've only put 45 mi. on the car and have had it for less than 24hrs.? If not, do I have any recourse?

qbrozen · August 2005

Unless its in writing somewhere that the car had it, no. They might be willing to work with you, but they don't have to, as far as I know. I mean, what the salesman says to you means nothing in the end. Its all about what's on the contract.

Didn't anyone look at the window sticker??

galant00 · August 2005

MY brother's wife works for an INFINITI corporate office so that how i would get my VPP. There is a post after yours that completely explains it. They are right on the money with their explanation..

carnaught · August 2005

Well, the window sticker says, premium sound. On the 3-series the cd changer is prewired with it but the changer is a dealer install item. This is NOT the case with the 5-series premium sound which includes the cd changer. The dealer has worked it out with me even though (no surprise) it cost me, I felt they were okay on this.

Live and learn!

mojorator · August 2005

Hello Car_Man:

I went to a Lexus dealer to look at a 2005 IS300 and the breakdown is as follows:

MSRP: $33,750.00
SALE PRICE: $28,800
BANK FEE: $650.00
DRIVEOFF: $1500.00
PAYMENT WITH TAX (SoCal 8.25%): $393.00 for 36 Months/12K a year miles
RESIDUAL: $17,898 (43%)
MONEY FACTOR: 0.132 (??)

Is this about right? Am I paying too much a month??

Thanks
Mike

tremere · August 2005

CarMan,

I got my car inspected and there is some excess charge, quite a small amount however. So, I have decided to turn in the vehicle at lease end (9/28). A VW rep I just spoke with said that after I have returned the car, they will send me an invoice of final costs. Since I have the inspection receipt, I should not get any phantom wear and tear costs appearing, right? I am also well below my mileage, so there are no costs there. What other kinds of surprises should I expect? I don't want to get into a new car and then VW gives me a ridiculous invoice a few months down the road which I can't afford.

Oh, and when is the best time to return the vehicle? I don't want an early lease termination charge, so would it be ok if I returned it on say 9/15?

duckg · August 2005

I am in the process of leasing a Dodge 1500 Quad SLT. I say in the process because the dealer is 335 miles away and is going to deliver it to me. I am trading in a 2003 Dodge SLT reg cab and a 98 Ford XLT. With both being traded it pays off the 2003 Dodge. The MSRP on the on the Dodge I am buying is $30,385 discounted to $28,473. $6500 in incentives takes it down to $21,973. TT&L are about $900, so that is $22,873.

I am doing a 48 month/12,000 mile Gold Key Plus and my payment is going to be $396. From some of the post I have seen, this seems kind of high. What do you think?

smbnj · August 2005

Hey Car Man & Kirstie H,

The dealer has offered a lease on a 2006 S80. $39,430 MSRP, CAP Cost $31,790, Money Factor .00240, Residual 46%, $2,000 total out of pocket, 36 mos., 12,000 miles per year, $499 per month. Note: It will be leased through my privately owned company, which I have been told commands a higher rate. What do you think?

guy999 · August 2005

aggietx--

1-i don't know if it has that stuff like pinstripes, but i don't want it, and i'm not paying for it.

2-i was told I do get tax credit on the acura.. but i have to pay 1.2% tax, which should only be like $320 buck though..

3- i was reading thing that the residual is 56% or 57%, hard to figure out which one..

4-i like expert lease pro, it's the only one I have.. It gives you all of the options listing, and also you can easily change the residual and money factor and have a few windows open so you can make changes easily. I don't know where the residuals were from in expert I have manually overwritten the data from info from in here.

5- the money factor, is like .00250 is what i'm being told by goodson acura in irving.

rbevz67 · August 2005

Hi Carman and company,

Could you please let me know what the current residual and MF is on a 2005 Accord EX-L Sedan non-nav assuming 10k and 12k miles per year for 36 months... or whatever special honda has going on this model right now.

Also, does the dealer still get the $750 cash back on a lease?

Thanks so much,

Chris

23tigger · August 2005

Carman (or anyone else who might know):

I've noticed that on some of the leases you've indicated that you assume Tier 1 credit (or the like). I've also noticed that you've never really mentioned this in the messages on Honda leases.

Does AHFC use a tier system, or is it a pass-fail type situation? If pass-fail, what is the cut-off on the Pilot or Odyssey leases?

marcz · August 2005

I posted message #23187 about leasing a 2006 LR3 HSE, and you were kind enough to reply in message #23238 that the numbers hadn't come out yet. Today, I spoke to a dealer in Northern California and was quoted a 58% residual for 36 months, with a money factor of .0036, through Land Rover Capital. Can you confirm these figures? The money factor seems very high.

Thanks for a great forum.

tguerino · August 2005

Carman,

Thanks for the info on the 2006 750i residual and money factor. Any chance that you could obtain the BMW Owners Choice (aka balloon option)residuals and interest rate/money factor for a 2006 BMW 750i with 12k miles per year? I prefer the balloon note for a couple reasons but do not know if BMW uses the same residuals (and interest rate correlating to 24 X the money factor) in determining the monthly note. I assume the owners choice calculation would work the same as the lease calculation, however I do not have any confirmation of that either. Any help you could provide is GREATLY appreciated.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hey shonuff. You are being provided a discount of $2,800 on this truck, which is actually pretty good. I'd say that this is probably $500 to $750 or so over dealer invoice, give or take. For additional feedback on the price that you were quoted, you may want to stop by the following discussion: "Toyota 4Runner: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". You are right about this truck's residual value. Unlike most banks that lease vehicles, Toyota Financial Services places restrictions upon which options can be residualized and caps on the amount of money that can be residualized for them. This is why your truck's residual value seems more like 56% than 60%. Using the numbers that you provided in your post, I'm coming up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $371. This isn't far from the $376 that you were quoted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi sage23. I haven't seen the lease program for the 2006 Honda Odyssey yet. I suspect that I will when Honda introduced its new incentives on September 7th.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hello chet21. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the web sites that you mentioned in your post. I can tell you though that you will most likely be able to get the best lease on the vehicle that you are interested in by leasing it through its captive finance company or an independent bank that solely does business with dealers. It sounds as though you are in the market for a new BMW. If that is the case, you may want to wait until September to lease. I have heard rumblings that its lease program will be more attractive next month than it is now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Greetings Ariel. Some banks will occasionally negotiate the lease-end selling prices of vehicles. In order to find out of the price of your leased vehicle is, place a call directly to the bank that you are leasing it through a month or two before the scheduled end of your deal. Do not involve the dealer that you took delivery of your vehicle from. If your initial contact at the bank is unwilling to lower your vehicle's price, work your way up the ladder and see if a manager is willing to work with you. Make sure to give them the impression that you are right at your vehicle's allowed mileage. There certainly is no guarantee that they will be willing to work with you, more often than not they won't, but it's worth a shot. You have nothing to lose by trying. Good luck.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Yes, dfosher, I believe that BMW is increasing its MSRPs on 2006 3-Series models next month. If you are ordering a car, this will have an impact upon its price, but it shouldn't change the prices of cars that dealers already have in inventory.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

I'm glad to hear that you have been such an avid reader of this discussion, dxcoqui. The dealer that you spoke with it wrong. Vehicles' residual values are always based upon a percentage of their full MSRPs (including destination charges)plus the MSRPs of any options that are allowed to be residualized, not their selling prices. If you let me know how long you want to lease this car for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it, I can work up a sample lease payment on it for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi foxyroxy. BMW Financial Services' 24 and 36 month lease programs for this car are different. If you were to lease a 2005 BMW Z4 2.5 through BMW Financial Services right now for 24 months with 15,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 63%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease should be .00200 and 56%. Leases with 12,000 miles per year would have residual values that are 2% higher and leases with 10,000 miles per would have residuals that are 3% higher. BMW's current lease program is only scheduled to run through August 31st, but I would not be completely surprised if it carried over its August program to September 6th like most other automakers have done.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

You're very welcome glgphd. Good luck in your negotiations.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

I like your new name, NolongerleasingscarednowthatI'marmedwithyourinformation, the numbers that you were quoted for a 39 month, 10,000 miles per year lease of this car are right on the money. If you were to lease it for 36 months, instead of for 39, its lease program should be .00202 and 64%. This is a national lease program that is the same across the country, but IFS' numbers are slightly different for '06 M35 models that are equipped with AWD or the Sport package.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Bushwack, Infiniti Financial Services' 12,000 miles per year residual values are 1% lower than the aforementioned 10,000 miles per year residuals. Its 15,000 miles per year residuals would be 2% lower.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Greetings x021627. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Lexus ES 330 without navigation through Lexus Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,00 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00140 and 54%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Welcome idjiot. From the looks of the prices that you were quoted for this car I believe your dealer's statement that this is $500 over dealer invoice. That is a pretty good price for this car. You can always stop by the following discussion just to make sure that it is in line with what others have paid for similar cars lately: "Audi A4: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

The first thing that I notice about the deal that you were quoted is the substantial amount of money that is due at lease signing. A large portion of that money is a capitalized cost reduction, aka down payment. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for your A4 would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put several thousand dollars down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

You never mentioned how long you are interested in leasing this car for or how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. If you let me know, I would be happy to calculate a sample lease payment on it for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi timmboj. Saturn's current lease program on the 2006 VUE is actually more attractive than its program on the 2005 model. The main difference between these two trucks is going to be their selling prices. If you go with an '05 model right now, you can get it for GM's Employee Purchase Price. This will likely be a lot lower than the price that a dealer would be willing to sell you a similar '06 model for at this time. If you let me know how long you want to lease your VUE for, exactly what trim level you want (i.e. a 4-cylinder 2WD, a V6 AWD, etc...), how long you want to lease it for, and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it I can give you an idea of what its current lease program is like.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Here's the information that you are looking for alex123. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Altima 2.5S through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 24 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00120 and 65%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease should be .00172 and 55%. I provided you with information on both terms because even though the money factor and residual value for 2 years is more attractive, the 3 year numbers will likely result in a lower monthly payment because of the longer term. When negotiating your lease on this car, keep in mind that Nissan is providing a $1,500 cash incentive on '05 Altimas that are leased through NMAC. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

You're welcome dfosher. I agree, while money factor mark-ups are annoying at lease the salesperson that you are working with was honest when confronted about the higher factor. Whether to lease this month or wait until September is a good question. I believe that units that dealers already have in inventory are not impacted by the new price increase. Furthermore, rumor has it that BMW will enhance its lease program ont he 3-Series in September. So ideally, you would lease a vehicle that arrived at your dealer before the price increase during September with the rumored improved lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hello galant00. Chances are that the selling price that was used to arrive at the advertised lease payment that you saw for the Infiniti FX35 was higher than the VPP price for this model. If this is indeed the case, the lease payment for the model that you lease using the VPP price would actually be lower than the advertised one. If you tell me the full MSRP and VPP price for the truck that you are interested in, I would be happy to calculate a lease payment on it for you using Infiniti's actual lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Greetings newmanba. The selling price that you were quoted for this truck looks attractive to me. 32 months is an odd lease term though. Most leases are either 30, 36, or 39 months. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this truck for you using the 36 month term and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Lexus RX 330 AWD without navigation or the entertainment system with an MSRP of $45,083 and a selling price of $40,300 through Lexus Financial Services right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, you zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $561. I worked up a payment without any sort of capitalized cost reduction for you because it is never a good idea to make down payments when leasing. I say this for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for your truck would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put several thousand dollars down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

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