Subaru Crew - Future Models II

kate5000 · February 2001

I like white lettering when letters are new and clean. The nicely dressed all-black tires look cool too.

When oh when will we get Forester Turbo? I wouldn't mind any tires on that beast!

ateixeira · February 2001

More like an SUV, perhaps.

But could you imagine RWL on a Porsche?

Soon, maybe, with the Cayenne on the way! Sad!

-juice

kate5000 · February 2001

It's fine to have more SIA plants in the US, but I'm concerned with quality control possibly going down. Judging by my husband's Accord, "they don't build them anymore as they used to".

rsholland · February 2001

Kate, with all due respect, I've always hated white lettering on tires. I don't like it on SUVs, pickupsanything. To me, it just looks tacky. Sorry.

Bob

ateixeira · February 2001

You meant Ash, right?

RWL on the Forester looks less out of place. That and the "AWD" stickers aren't my favorites, but I'm guessing Subaru will keep them on their most SUV-like vehicle.

-juice

paisan · February 2001

I love SUVs, hate white lettering...

I'd put money that a good portion of the SIA plant is for producing the Axiom which is due out this spring from Isuzu. SIA will now be producing Rodeos, Rodeo Sports, Legacies, Outbacks, and Axioms.

I believe Honda is cutting corners, living on their past glories of the 70s and 80s.

I'd just like to let you know, my XT6 has a tilt, telescopic and tilting guages

The SVX also has a telescopic wheel as well. At least on the WRX they brought back seats very similar to my XT6 front seats with the height adjustments

Although mine also has an adjustment for the lower back as well.

Long live the SVX and XT6!

-mike

ateixeira · February 2001

You can add ST-X to that list pretty soon, too. There was even some mention of moving Forester production to the US.

It'll be a busy plant!

-juice

leomort · February 2001

Seen a small review on this car here at Edmunds. Subura is going to put in the 2.5L engine in it. What other improvements have the made in this car? Have the increased the rear legroom?

Leo

rsholland · February 2001

I suggest you go to this site, and follow the links. This probably the most complete listing of info I have seen to date.

Note most of the stuff on this site pertains to the WRX, but there is a listing of other Impreza Info too.

http://www.new-impreza.com/

Also, go to SOA's web site and follow the links to News and press releases. There's a lot of info there too.

http://www.subaru.com

Bob

ateixeira · February 2001

They sure did. The wheelbase is a bit longer, so there is more leg room than before. The wagon is even a bit roomier than the sedan.

The structure is also stiffer, and interior materials seem at least one step up the quality ladder. The passenger seat has a height adjustment, too.

I suggest you visit a local auto show, since they're making their rounds now. They were present at the Detroit, Philadelphia, and Chicago auto shows.

We saw a WRX wagon, but the OBS should get similar improvements.

-juice

lucien2 · February 2001

*whew* Catching up is hard to do....

toyota and honda are not cometition for this allegedly muddled impreza line. Just look at the price of the Corolla S wagon and the civic 5 door......

ateixeira · February 2001

They don't sell the 5 door here. You mean sedan, right?

Also, the Corolla wagon has been MIA for half decade or so. At least they'll offer the Matrix.

-juice

lucien2 · February 2001

HAAA! the trap is SPRUNG!! EXACTLY!!

)

ateixeira · February 2001

They have a Civic-based mini-minivan in Europe. Looks like an ugly PT, basically.

Wagons are making a come back, like it or not (I do).

-juice

leomort · February 2001

Can they last to 200,000 miles with only minor repairs and upkeep?

Thanks,

Leo

FrankMc · February 2001

All the data I see is more short term oriented, Consumer report goes back 8 years or so. I don't know of any data that says of all the cars that have 200,000 miles 35% of the Honda's and 27% of the Toyota's and 28% of the Subaru's have had minor repairs only. Subaru's are in the same quality range on the COnsumer Report charts as Honda and Toyota, but I think when you are talking 200,000 you are getting into "My uncle had a Sidewinder that has 300,000 miles and he has never changed the oil". "Oh yeah, my aunt had one and the engine failed before it left the lot"

If someone has data I would love to hear it

Frank

kate5000 · February 2001

I see more old DL/GL/Loyales wagons on the road than probably any other wagons which is amazing given that Subaru was always a niche player.

leomort · February 2001

while I don't have "Facts and figures" to back it up,I don't think it would be hard to post such a topic and get real first hand info.

My Toyota has 153,000 miles and still going strong. Due to me putting in the wrong antifreeze in, I had to replace the radiator. A clutch replace at 100,000 miles, which I probably could have milked out longer. Other than that, it's been routine maintenence.

This was my fist Toyota--also my first foreign car. I've been pleased with its reliability. Will I buy another Toyota?? Possibly, but I'm open minded to other reliable vehicles. Thus my question regarding Subarus. I'm also looking at Mazdas and Hondas. I think Hyundai has made remarkable improvements in their vehicles in the last few years and warrant I look also.

Leo

locke2c · February 2001

I do too Kate, but that's the danger of observation. To me they are perceived because I'm looking for Subarus. They stand out.

It's like when you get a new car, especially if that model has already been out a while. After you get your car you often suddenly notice how many there are or aren't on the streets.

-Colin

FrankMc · February 2001

The Subaru magazine did a story and had people with 500K miles on their Subaru, but I just don't know if anyone collects that type of data (how could you, if a car has 5 owners in it's 200K journey, then know how many repars it went through). I would assert from the people I know with older cars, that the Subaru's seem to hold up as well as the other similar Japanese cars, but I don't have anything in the way of facts to back it up.

Frank

kostamojen2 · February 2001

95% of 10 year old Subaru's are still on the Road.
Consumers reports Recomends ALL current subaru models and rates all of them with above average to exellent reliability.
Used models are rated equaly high.

And on a side note, a bunch of artiles about the new WRX were from a Subaru held "rally" that they did for hundreds of Media persons a couple months ago. They drove like 2 or 3 cars around for 2 days for over 15 hours straight each day on Rally courses with jumps, gravel, dirt, etc. (Stock cars, nothing done to them) and over that whole weekend, all that was ever replaced were Tires. (If you go find and read some of the articles from Car+Driver, Road+Track, Automobile Magazine, Grassroots.com, here at Edmunds, and more, alot of them mention this and are astounded by that fact).

Suburu's are Generally VERY reliable and VERY rugged, not to mention very safe in accidents and in hard conditions.

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Our Legacy doesnt make a peep! Im sure the new Impreza will be along those lines, but the current one... Well, its 8 years old :P

amishra · February 2001

about that new WRX passing through the hands of multiple journalists on a rally course and not breaking a thing ... - this months issue of Super Compact Car has a WRX on its cover and a good article about it. they were much impressed.

ash

FrankMc · February 2001

the last 10 years were still on the road. Which is not the same thing as 95% of the 10 year old Subaru's are still on the road. However, that stat most likely has more to do with accident statistics than the actual relibility of the car. If you have a 4,000 accident on a 1999 Subaru it get's repaired, the same accident on a 1991 Subaru and it is junkyard time.

Frank

paisan · February 2001

on my '88 XT6! 73K miles and the only problem is the air-suspension.

-mike

ramon · February 2001

maybe my Impy has to endure the harsh Canadian winter climates. =(
In the summer, the car rides fine. But it's in the winter that it squeeks like I am driving some old Ford truck!

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Imprezas considering their age, might be suceptable to Cold Weather squeeks (cold bushings, cold joints, cold metal, etc.) but our Legacy hasnt had any of those problems right now during winter... but we arent in Canada, we're in california :P

scarwaf · February 2001

I have a 2001 VDC. My breaks have been sqeaking in cold weather. Recently I was up in the Sierra mountains where the temperature was around 16 degrees at night. The first start in the morning is when this occured then it tappers off to a slight squeak as the day goes on. At home in So.California they dissappear with the exception of the first start in the morning when I back out from the driveway. After that the breaks do not squeak. Has anybody out there with an outback H6 or H4 ever experience this. Bob

paisan · February 2001

Generally squeek in the mornings. Both my '88 XT6 and my dad's '97 both do the same thing. I believe it's the semi-metalic brakes that squeek until warmed up. Try warming the brakes for the first few miles, and then they'll be fine.

-mike

amishra · February 2001

squeaking brakes ... in the morning all the time. Once they warm up, they're fine.

-- ash

leomort · February 2001

hello all,

I heard that turbo chargers can be rough on engine wear, is that true? That they can cause head gasket leaks, is that true? Last, I heard that the turbo chargers themselves often break, is that true?

As you may be aware, I'm new to Suburas and considering buying one. So any enlightment you can provide would greatly be appreciate.

Leo

lucien2 · February 2001

Somewhat true. That is why regular maintenance is so crucial. If you take care of a turbo motor, it will take care f you, giving many years of service and fun. But if you neglect it or cut corners on oil changes and routine maintenance, be prepared for a big bill down the road.

I don't know of head gasket failure per se, that shouldn't be an issue.

francophile · February 2001

Turbochargers increase the amount of fuel/air mixture that goes into into the combustion chamber prior to ignition. They do this by creating higher air pressure in the intake manifold. This creates more power and also more stress - on literally every part of the engine. A properly designed turbo motor will be beefed up to handle the extra stress. In fact there are turbo cars that go hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint, and turbocharged truck engines that go millions of miles. There are two things I would recommend to turbo owners (besides the usual litany of engine care tips):

1) Let the motor idle for 30 seconds to a minute before shutting it off. This gives the turbo a chance to cool and gives the oil circulating through it a chance to carry that heat away.

2) Change the oil often! Turbos stress engine oil due to their high operating temperatures.

Cheers,
-wdb

leomort · February 2001

also what other maintenence should be done for turbo chargers to ensure long reliable life?

Leo

locke2c · February 2001

wdb forgot the most important one: ONLY use full synthetics in a turbocharged engine. Modern synthetics are nearly immune to coking and sludge. Idling for 30s isn't a bad idea anyway, but after a typical drive isn't needed with modern synthetics and water-cooled turbos.

-Colin

ateixeira · February 2001

Whether any vehicle will last for 200k miles will depend the most on its service history. That plus the cost of repairs, since they may exceed the current value of the vehicle.

200k is a bit optimistic, even for Hondas and Toyotas. By then it's very likely that several parts would have failed, so it's a matter of what was fixed/replaced/serviced. It is worth spending $700 to fix the AC condenser on an Accord with 178k miles?

Fleets are a good example. My friend is VP of a construction company, and they have dozens of fleet pickups. They are mostly Fords, which aren't rated highly in reliability. But the key here is DURABILITY, not reliability. In other words, they service them all the time, in-house, and keep them running forever.

They routinely get 250k miles out of each truck. Yes, that includes an engine rebuild or two, and several other repairs, of course.

Bottom line: take care of your Soob and it will last. Remembering to do the 30k, 60k, 90k, etc servicing is probably most important.

ramon: sure you don't need that front strut tower brace to quell the rattles?

-juice

leomort · February 2001

more often in turbo charged engines?

Thanks for the tip on using synthetic oil in turbo charge engines. I did not know that.

juice, I hope that your wrong regarding Toyotas and Hondas--at least for Toyotas as I currently own one. Everyone I talked to who owned a Toyota brag about how Toyotas are just getting broken in at 100,000 miles. Many attest to near 200,000 miles or greater. All said without major repairs. Don't know if that means I should read between the lines or that they a very loyal Toyota fans. Brand bias has a tendency to blind one to a vechicle shortcomings.

Just like before I bought my Toyota, I heard good things about Subaru and their reliability. Sure there are going to be bad Suburas that have trouble just as there are going to be bad Hondas and Toyotas. Overall, I think Subaru are good reliabe cars.

Personally, I can't wait to see the 2002 subura models coming out.

Leo

FrankMc · February 2001

I would guess that the guys that drive a ton of highway miles would get to 200k, but remember if you are talking about a 10k a year driver.. The 1982 Toyota's are the ones that are starting to get close to 200k. I think that generally people like their cars, and therefore are guesstimating. I would think 200k without major repairs is possible, but at least if you look at Consumer Reports data, repairs go up with age on a car, and getting one without any dings may be a stretch. (I would think the high milage guys would be mostly highway miles and therefore "easier miles"). I know some people with '83 and '84 vintage Subaru's, but they are at merely 170k or so...

Frank

paisan · February 2001

Yep. I put on 120K in my Rodeo in 2.5years. 1/2 highway 1/2 city. No repairs. I'm sure that if that 120K was over a longer period of time it would not have been so repair free...

-mike

ateixeira · February 2001

One Subaru dealer site I visited had a quarter-million mile club, with photos and all (including odometers). I'd tend to think this is not always the case, though.

Also, how long a circa 1982 car of any brand does not necessarily tell you how long a 2001 model will. So much has changed since then they really have not a single part in common.

However, an automaker with a historically good reputation for reliability certainly improves your chances.

-juice

leomort · February 2001

never thought about a 10,000 mile/year driver and someone who puts many more miles/year--usually highway miles.

For example, I put 25,000 miles/year on my car. Probably 90% highway, 10% city. Got my '94 Toyota in November. I'm estimating that I should have around 175,000 miles on my car by Nov 2001.

I think the national average is more like 12,000 miles/year. Some argue 15,000 miles/year. So if one keeps a car 10 year, the car will probably have about 120,000 miles. That's not too bad for a Toyota. I'd bet one would get tired/bored of the car after owning/driving it for 10 years more than for it giving mechanical trouble as a reason to get rid of it.

But that's interest thought. Would a Toytota, or any car for that matter, give more trouble w/ less mileage/year but getting to an older age vs a high mileage/year vehicle but newer? I honestly don't know.

I guess I got lucky with my Toyota. Because I'm going to try and keep it until 2002 thus making it both old (at 8 years) plus high mileage at close 200,000 miles. Since I'm not going to get anything for trade in on this car, I'm debating on keeping and see how long the car can last without major repair.

Any comments on my previous questions regarding Subarus?

Leo

ateixeira · February 2001

I've heard women drive an average of 9k miles per year, while men drive 15k miles. If a couple has 2 vehicles, that could mean 12k per car per year, since the male might drive more often (that is certainly the case with me and my wife).

What's worse, age or mileage? Well, in a used car I'd want a balance of the two, but I'd tend to say mileage is worse because it represents actual use.

The catch is lots of people with high miles will claim they are highway miles, which cause less wear in the long run.

-juice

locke2c · February 2001

The catch is lots of people with high miles will claim they are highway miles, which cause less wear in the long run.

Well, even though this isn't the SC-Maint&Repair topic I'll weigh in with my thoughts. We're all friends here and it will relate to Subaru (eventually!).

I won't dispute the common thought that mileage accrued on the highway is less fatiguing than mileage earned in stop&go city gridlock. Surely this proves true if you owned and maintained a high-miler at the extreme of each environment...

Anyway, the problem with this theory is that book value doesn't give a rat's posterior about city vs. hwy mileage. There is no discrimination, it all lowers value. If you are selling it yourself and convince a purchaser that the highway miles raise the value somehow then good for you. Would you likewise sell it for less if they were evil city miles (assuming in both cases the car was mechanically sound)?

From what I've seen of Subaru so far I think they possess the typical Japanese tolerances-- much better than domestics for sure. Subaru does not use especially robust parts though, unlike a Toyota 4AG or any vtec Honda. No oversize beefy rods, no forged cranks, etc. Reasonably reliable stuff, but of course aluminum blocks don't like overheating at all so any Subaru owner should watch that water temp like a hawk.

-Colin

ramon · February 2001

ok maybe not a revelation. But I got a chance to drive a Forester L today. Actually for the entire day. hehehehe.... My car is in for an exhaust exchange...
It's a Forester L. and it's an Auto. I was pleasantly surprised at how efficient the auto is. It shifted seamlessly. And it's quite peppy too. Not like them Accords auto I drove on before. Aiyah!
The higher seating position was a change. Now I sorta understand why ppl buy SUVs. It's nice to look down on other drivers. hahahaha.... but on corners, I was kinda scared. Anyways can't wait to drive it again. Might as well.... since it's free for the day.

ateixeira · February 2001

Told ya the 2.5l was nice! Even with the extra weight.

I like the seat height, too. It's like a boost, without being a high chair - so you don't get nausea.

It's so, so funny that you think it's so different. A lot of people criticize it for having seats that are too low!

-juice

ramon · February 2001

if i ever wanted a nice SUV like vehicle, the Forester is definitely on top of the list. I also like the extra ground clearance. In our work parking lot, the plowed snow created some kinda "barricade" in b/t each aisle. Wih my OBS, my bumper would hit it. With the Forester I was able to nudge thru it therefore minimizing the car's nose protrusion to the road.

hammersley · February 2001

don't squeal in the mornings... but my knees sometimes do! forwards or backwards!

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira · February 2001

Mine don't either, unless it's been sitting for a very long time, and even then it's just for a second or two.

My dad's does, though. But again, it's only for the first few seconds each morning. Must be surface rust, I guess.

-juice

thecat · February 2001

The March issue of Automobile magazine has an extremely complementary review and comparison of the WRX vs 911. The article identifies numerous mechanical and performance similarities between the two cars. Good reading for anyone considering getting their wallet out, as we near the release date.

- hutch

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Yup, got that Issue too cause of that article it was so good! Basically said the WRX "Is what the 911 used to be" and that its "2/3rds of a 911 for 1/3rd the price"

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