Subaru Crew - Future Models II

ateixeira · April 2003

I dunno, I doubt the RSX sells as well as the Integra did. The TL is the exception that proves the rule. And as a brand, Acura still has failed to match Infiniti, never mind Lexus.

I don't like the naming convention, personally. They all sound the same. What's what? And I know all about Subies. Imagine the layman, he'll have no clue.

"B5WRXSTi"? Bless you. Sounds like a sneeze.

Nice find twrx, now I hope they announce pricing when they show the Baja turbo in NY.

-juice

rsholland · April 2003

<< I don't like the naming convention, personally. They all sound the same. What's what? And I know all about Subies. Imagine the layman, he'll have no clue.

"B5WRXSTi"? Bless you. Sounds like a sneeze. >>

I agree that "B5WRXSTi" is probably not the right solution. As in "B11S," the naming should consist of no more than four or five characters, whatever that makeup would be. Consider the following:

 B = engine configuration; in this case a boxer engine. It could also be "DB" for a future diesel boxer, or "H" in the case of a hybrid.

 11 = body platform, going from small to large.

 S = trim level. In the case of the B11S, I would assume "S" means sport, as in turbo-charged H-6. I don't think we necessarily need to keep "WRX," of "RS," etc. There could be a "B5," for the base model; a "B5L," for the luxury trim level; and a "B5S," for the sporty turbo model. Engine displacement would be badged separately, as it is with the current H-6, and special models, like the STi, would also be treated differently.

I still like the idea of the "cars only" (Legacy & Impreza) to use the alphanumeric system; and that that anything that hints of being a crossover (Forester, Outback, Baja, etc.) keep the current names, and not use an alphanumeric system.

It appears Subaru is going in two distinct directions with their product lineup: High performace cars and crossovers. I think doing this will further separatein people's minds Subaru cars from crossover-type vehicles, which I think would be a good marketing move.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2003

I don't like the letters/numbers/letters idea. Too complicated.

The "B" almost seems redundant. Right now they're all Boxers.

The other thing is that, if anything, I'd like to see the displacment in the name. The number 11 is meaningless. If it measured the wheelbase or passenger capacity, or maybe the number of cylinders, then OK.

So instead of Forester you might have X25, XS25, and XS25T.

But nah, never mind. It makes the cars seem too generic. Few people even recall the MX5 after the Miata name.

-juice

ateixeira · April 2003

Hey Bob, you could end up with a Boxer-4, Luxury, turbo...BLT! LOL

-juice

rsholland · April 2003

I love BLTs!

Bob

rsholland · April 2003

Well Subaru wouldn't have trademarked those names unless they weren't considering using them.

Yeah, I know, just because they've been trademarked doesn't mean they will use them; but the fact that they trademarked 4 namesas in a series, tells me they must seriously be considering it. If they had trademarked only one "B-name," that would be different, but 4 names... That suggests to me serious consideration on their part.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2003

They could have a "B4". Then when it's face-lifted, they could call it the "After".

)

-juice

hypov · April 2003

"After"? Sound better than "B9" [benign] ;-)

-Dave

subearu · April 2003

ateixeira · April 2003

Yeah, I'd thought about that too.

-juice

hondafriek · April 2003

Leave the numbering to BMW who had it in the first place, and what is wrong with the names that Subaru is using at the minute, I for one am quite happy as they are.

Now if they started using geeky names like VW. that would be a different matter.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · April 2003

Sounds like Subaru is copying Audi, though, not BMW. A4? B5. A6? B7. TT? B11S. And so on.

See the Cafe for a pic of the new 5, ugh.

-juice

bluesubie · April 2003

"Well Subaru wouldn't have trademarked those names unless they weren't considering using them."

Like I posted on the nasioc thread, isn't there the possibility they are going to use these numbers solely for concept vehicles?

-Dennis

ateixeira · April 2003

Yes. I hope so.

-juice

hondafriek · April 2003

I agree that the new 5 is pure ugly, but then most of the BMW line is.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · April 2003

So far a positive response to my photochop in the 5-series topic, they're laughing basically.

-juice

jim1969 · April 2003

Has anyone heard of any major changes in the upcoming 2004MY Legacy sedan? I have heard the rumors of a turbo but is it coming this year or next? SOA won't give up the info. I am between the new Accord and the Legacy GT. The Legacy feels slower than the Accord (either the 4 or 6 cylinder models).

twrx · April 2003

For what it is worth, a salesman at my local Subaru dealership says the Legacy will get the twin turbo engine but not until the 2005 model.

TWRX

wrxsoon1 · April 2003

And a salesman at my local dealership says the redesigned Legacy is coming in July/August with a turbo as an '04 model. Hmmm...I sure hope it's not all just salesman jabber.

-Ian

hondafriek · April 2003

As a former dyed in the wool Honda owner, (see my post over in the Subaru suggestions thread).

I would highly suggest the Legacy GT, apart from the obvious advantage of the all wheel drive the Sube has lots of low end grunt that the Accord 4 does not, while the Accord 4 may seem faster all that performance is at the top end of the RPMs.

  The accord six is a different beast, more performance low down.

I actually became a Subaru owner by default, Honda stopped making an Accord wagon so I was forced to look elsewhere Subaru met all of my criteria, and I am glad that it did, while I have not driven the current Accord, I found the sube to be more refined than the 01 Accord.

The Subaru was quieter and more relaxed on the highway not as much roadnoise in the cabin, and this was Sube wagon versus Accord sedan.

  Even though I owned and loved Honda's for many years, I was always bothered by the lack of low end grunt and the amount of roadnoise, so much so that I spent wads of money on my 89 Accord to address the lack of low end performance.

  Cheers Pat.

cptplt · April 2003

Various people asked about the directshift in the new Forester. I finally found the info about it again. Its in SOAs news release of the 2.5XT. Its not a Sportshift like in the Legacy GT,

> The 2004 Forester 2.5 XT is available with a standard 5-speed manual transmission or an optional new 4-speed Direct Controlled Electronic Automatic Transmission. This advanced transmission electronically enhances shift operations for quicker, smoother shifts and better performance

jim1969 · April 2003

Thanks for the imput. Still though, no hard date as to when the new, more powerful Legacy will be out. I've also heard that it could be as early as this year. I just don't know if my current car can hold out if the turbo isn't until next year. My wife loves her 2002 Forester S Premium esp the AWD but the new Accord is getting great reviews in every paper and auto mag. The Accord EX (4 cylinder) even costs less than the current Legacy GT sedan. It makes it hard to buy the current Legacy.

rsholland · April 2003

is rumored to debut next month in Japan. As to when the USA will get it, bests somewhat-informed info* suggests next winter/spring as an '05 model.

* = I heard that from Paul Hansen (in charge of apexjapan.com, a Japanese auto web site) regarding the May Japanese intro, and the USA debut from a SOA rep at the Baltimore auto show in Feb.

Bob

rsholland · April 2003

If I'm not mistaken, the Nissan Altima, Maxima, 350Z, Murano and the Infiniti G35 coupe/sedan, and FX35/45 all share the same basic platform. I find this amazing, especially considering some are FWD, AWD or RWD. I've also read the upcoming Dodge/Chrysler full-size RWD cars are also designed for AWD applications.

Subaru could certainly do the same if the B11S gets the green light for production. It's the widest Subaru ever shown, as well having the longest wheelbase of any Subie. It's platform could very well also be the basis of the up-coming new 7-passenger crossover, as well as other yet to be announced models. The (high-volume) cross-over could easily help offset the development/production costs of the (low-volume) B11S if they sprang from the same platform.

Bob

lucien2 · April 2003

A Saab WRX would be to the Soob what A4 is to Passat or TT is to Golf.

kens · April 2003

Or what a G35 Coupe is to the 350Z...

Ken

sweet_subie · April 2003

Compared to my Sub 01 OB, my 02 MPV with Traction control works as good as AWD in Boston weather......a bit surprising but appears that way to me.

subearu · April 2003

If your Outback has the OEM Firestones one it, then it's no surprise. They are fine in wet and dry stuff, but snow traction isn't one of it's best suited traits.

We have the same fleet (almost) as you - a '00 Outback and '02 MPV ES. We plan on getting a set of snows for the MPV next winter.

-Brian

rsholland · April 2003

A couple of things could be happening here:

1)
As we all know, the Outback is a merely a sub-species of the Legacy/Impreza lines, aimed at the "outdoorsy" crowd. Subaru may be thinking creating an additional "GT-type" sub-specie line of from the current (and future) product lines. This would be slotted below the hard-core performance STi lines, but above mainstream models. For example: Future Legacy GTs and Impreza WRXs may be call "B9" and "B7" respectively. A "B5" may be a smaller yet-to-be-announced sporty Justy-type vehicle? The "B11," as with the concept, would be bigger than the Legacy/B9.

2)
There is a conspicuous absence of coupes in the Subaru product portfolio. Perhaps these "B-names" will be applied to a series of future coupes/roadsters, ranging from small to large?

Bob

subearu · April 2003

The heated front deicer in the AWP would be nice in the MPV. I was surprised this winter how quickly the MPV leather seats warmed up without heated seats. I was expecting the worst bone chilling cold you could feel, but it didn't seem any colder than my fabric Outback seats.

My dw loves her MPV btw. ;-)

(struggling to get back to Future Models topics...) The MPV is just fine size-wise for us. I bet the future Subaru 6-7 seater will be similar in size. We found we didn't require the extra bulk of the other minivans out there. YMMV ;-)

-Brian

sweet_subie · April 2003

what happened, everyone is taking a break from this ?

locke2c · April 2003

the "suggestions for Subaru" topic siphoned off a lot of the traffic in this discussion.

-Colin

dcm61 · April 2003

There's a link on the home page of the NY Auto Show site http://www.autoshowny.com/ under Latest Show Headlines to an article at cars.com (2003 New York Auto Show Promises a Wealth of Automotive Treasures). Toward the bottom of the article, it says 'Subaru plans a world premiere of a "performance enhancement" to its crossover vehicle line.'

We all know they will be debuting the Baja Turbo but any guesses as to what else? They already debuted the Forester Turbo at Chicago, so you think they're going to debut an Outback Turbo?

DaveM

sweet_subie · April 2003

won't surprise me.
outback turbo would sell a lot more than a baja turbo.

see soa website for march sales....best in history

ateixeira · April 2003

Good, because last year was the first year with no sales growth. But I think it's incentives feuling those sales, for now at least.

-juice

sweet_subie · April 2003

speaking of discounts, cityside subaru(MA) has sent me a $4100 voucher to use towards new subie...

locke2c · April 2003

wow, with that kind of incentive I'd be driving an STi before year's end!

-Colin

ateixeira · April 2003

I bet there's fine print. Must be $4100 of MSRP of any Subie except the STi.

-juice

sweet_subie · April 2003

i don;t think 4,100 can be applied towards a legacy for e.g, otherwise i would get a legacy for 15k !!!!!!!!!!!!!

xccoachlou · April 2003

One of my co-workers spotted a Subaru Baja Turbo with Manufacturer plates this morning. It was heading towards NYC.

'Nuff Said.

- Lou

lakepop · April 2003

Wow....never would have thought they would "drive" a display car to that level of show. The finish detailing required to put it out as a "show dog" must be monumental. The OCD guys around here will be going crazy over that effort.

sweet_subie · April 2003

see that Honda Accord is CR's favorite for 4cly sedan........not passat anymore.

what took them so long ?
http://autos.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=2893&sr- c=Home&pos=Edit4

ateixeira · April 2003

OCD: what were they thinking? They'd better detail it twice for the show. ;-)

Passat is still their highest rated V6, though, right?

But they don't give points for character, and they conduct tests in sunny weather. They can keep their fair-weather friends.

-juice

allhorizon · April 2003

The 4cyl. Passat is not "gone", it ranks right below the Accord. Together, the two Accords and two Passats take the first five places. Also note that the Accord just underwent a major redesign, so you would expect that it should currently rate highly. But note that the 6cyl. Camry tops both Accords. And the 6cyl. Passat sits on top.

Of course, all of them are great cars with slightly different emphases and character. Only the Passat is available as a wagon and with AWD.

Subaru does not quite cater to the same clientele (on average). As long as they keep up quality standards, they should be fine. It's futile and ill-advised for a small manufacturer to try to go directly against the icons of mainstream cars.

- D.

sweet_subie · April 2003

Personal experience with jetta v6, my friend's i drove..........It felt very awkward & not a smooth engine....

ateixeira · April 2003

Really? The VR6 is a torquey powertrain, I like 'em.

-juice

sweet_subie · April 2003

speaking of consumer reports' top choice......if you recall in 2001, 2000...they had a separate category called Best Value - They choose Subaru Legacy......wondering why took it out in 2002 & 2003.

Speaking of Subarus, during this major blizzard in northeast a month ago, my OB was flawless. INterestingly enough, i saw a Nissan 4x4 strugling to make it thru & so was a new CRV 4wd. That made it clear to me that my next will be a Sube as well !

dcm61 · April 2003

The vehicle is only part of the equation. The driver's skills (or lack of) is the other part. Ever notice how many very capable SUV's are off the road (some flipped over) when it snows?

Note to all: let's not start another SUV debate. :-)

DaveM

kenoka · April 2003

Bob mentioned that he thought several cars from the Nissan/Infiniti lineup ride on the same platform. Partly true. The Infiniti G35, the 350Z, and the FX35/45 are on the FM platform, which is RWD standard and AWD capable. The Altima, Maxima, and Murano ride on the SS-L platform, which is FWD standard and AWD capable.

ateixeira · April 2003

OK, I thought that was the case (Altima on a different platform than the G35).

I do recall that the Altima got the rear suspension from the G35, but that's it, so it had to be a different chassis.

-juice

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