I liked the 6 even inside. Saw it way back last April at the NY show. Give them credit for at least offering a little style inside, and for doing it without making it look cheap (Altima).
Room inside is good, and the wagon had a cool flip-down seat feature where all you had to do is press a button. Subaru could borrow that feature and I wouldn't mind one bit.
The 6 is to trendy inside for me. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a nice car for the $. Just not my cup of tea. I do like the P5 though. If only it had AWD and more power.
Went to Auto show this week here in Mpls...very disappointed in Subaru. They didn't have the 2004 Impreza or the Forester XT, which surprised me since I'd have thought this is a good market for them...
The FX uses the FM platform (RWD based) and the Murano uses the Altima (FWD based). Supposedly they are completely separate cars and don't even share a lot of the same components...seems like a lot of extra expense when they end up being so similar...I really liked the Murano at first but after seeing it up close...yuck! It seems to be all style and very little function. And after never even considering Volvo before I have to say I loved the XC70. The XC90 is great too, but the 70 would suit me fine. (And it's got a much better AWD system this year too.)
Saw them both for the first time on the streets this weekend and can flatly say I dislike them both.
I always thought the Forester was slightly oddly proportioned - a little too much greenhouse for the body - but these two, especially the FX, go too far in the opposite direction. Tiny greenhouses on big bodies, like Zippy the pinhead. Huge bilnd spots in those greenhouses as well. Wheel and tire combos with no pretense of rough-roadability, much less off-roadability, but with a big nod to bling-bling culture.
I'd agree with jthorsen that these two are very much style over substance.
about the FX and Murano, but I really really liked the way one (FX) sounded as it passed me in a grocery store parking lot the other day. That's one mean sounding grocery getter, and that's about all it's good for.
Yes, Volvo moved to a far better AWD system this year. I sampled FWD and AWD S60s back-to-back at the Volvo Fire & Ice event, and the AWD was far better in every way except price.
This after I hated the XC70 on a test drive I took a couple of years ago, with the old AWD system.
Murano is stlyish but it also performs favorably compared to the Pilot or Highlander, it's a much sporiter handler.
Cause there is probably not a subaru presence there. That is what GM does often with the companies it controls. They pool all the GM vehicles into one brand and sell it. For instance the Isuzu Trooper is sold in SE Asia and Latin America as a Chevy Trooper, In Australia as a Holden Jackaroo. It actually makes a lot of sense from a business perspective.
• It's official: No moonroof or AWP for WRX wagon.
• STi has a longer 100.0" wheelbase (all other Imprezas have a 99.4" wheelbase).
• All Imprezas, including the TS, have rear disk brakes. My guess is the Forester X will probably also get them for '04 too.
• It appears the OBS info is once again now included in the Impreza brochure; unlike last year's brochure, which only had the OBS info in the Outback brochure.
• All Imprezas—including the STi—are rated to tow 2000 pounds. This is especially unusual considering last year, only the WRX wagon (and not the sedan) were rated to tow anything. Hmmm... I can just imagine myself pulling into the county landfill (which is off-roading at its best!) with my trailer loaded with yard waste, attached to an STi...
* = If you want to print it out on 8.5"x11" paper, you will need to reduce it by 33%, via your printer.
also go the ambient temperature gauge. Ken, are you saying the WRX sedan got the ambient temp gauge, and the wagon didn't? I don't think either WRX (except the STi) got it.
This link focuses mainly on Saab's problems, but does get into possible future Subie-Saabs, one of which would include a boxer diesel. Bob Lutz mentions one of Saab's big problems is not having a diesel for the European market. An Impreza-based 9-1, with a diesel, would help solve that. Interestingly, there's no mention of Isuzu in regards to this diesel however.
I'm not convinced that a Subaru-Saab relationship is that great. It could put a ceiling as to how high in the marketplace Subaru could attain. Also, I'm not convinced Saab will survive regardless of what input Subaru offers, and I would hate to see Subaru dragged down with Saab if it should sink.
On the other hand, a Subaru/Saab alliance makes more sense than any other Subaru/<insert GM brand> would make. Let's pray for the best...
I really think Saab could get a WRX and add $5 grand of content, mostly improving interior materials and such, and there'd be a market for it. Look how many people turn to A4s because the WRX is too "budget buy".
It won't necessarily limit Subaru's other model lines, and the STi would already be here. Let Saab do the glove-soft leather and wood trim stuff.
As much as I hate the idea of a Saab WRX, the idea of a better appointed WRX appeals to me. I wouldn't be against paying a little more for some additional creature comforts and a distinction from the boy-racers that covet the WRX. It would be what the G35 coupe is to the 350Z.
but I'm hoping they put back in the Baja turbo, what they removed from the STX: Dual-range tranny, better ground clearance, and a larger switchback opening. Also hoping for a better payload and towing.
The "B" stands for Boxer, as in Boxer 11 Sport (B11S). But the 11 has no significance. Maybe that'll be the new series name, like BMW uses 3, 5, and 7?
Names like "22B" used to give the displacement, 2.2l Boxer.
I think it would not be smart to dump the names, look at what happened to Acura after they renamed the Legend the RL. Sales plummeted.
<< I think it would not be smart to dump the names, look at what happened to Acura after they renamed the Legend the RL. Sales plummeted. >>
Only the RL suffered any long term damage, and that's more because of the car, not the name change. The Integra and Vigor didn't suffer. If anything the Vigor replacement is far more successful.
I like the idea of a name change. If future Subarus are going to make quite a break (visually) from previous models, a name change could be very helpful. Consider the following:
this is not only true for cloth H6 but for all outbacks............check fitzmall.
anybody heard of brake pulsating ? i left my 01OB unused for 3 weeks & it has rusted, my steering wobbles when i apply brakes. How come the same thing did not happen to my 02 MPV (unused for 3 weeks)....not happy with Subaru on this !
It's all about marketing, branding, image positioning, etc.
If Subaru wants to dramatically change what the market thinks of Subaru—outside of gearheads like us, a sweeping change in product names is one way of doing that. Subaru has to be careful however. They have a lot of name-equity in some of their product names, and they don't want to risk losing that. Here's a suggestion:
Replace the "car" line names with an alphanumeric system, like what's been suggested. Keep the current names for SUV and crossover-like models. For example:
• Justy (replacement) becomes a B5.
• Impreza becomes a B7.
• Legacy becomes a B9
• GT coupe (neo-SVX) becomes B11, as per concept.
This is all predicated that these cars will all have boxer engines, hence the "B" designation. The numbers (5, 7, etc.) signify the body size. Sub-designations (WRX, RS, GT and engine size, 2.5, 3.0, etc.) can also be added to the end.
• Forester name remains.
• Baja name remains.
• Outback name remains.
• Upcoming 7-passenger crossover gets a "name," not an alphanumeric designation.
TWRX: Great find! Well, I think we can guess what we'll see at the NY Auto Show!
Naming convention: I like an alphanumeric system also. It gives a better idea of the product portfolio and gets rid of the problem where some names can sound goofy in some countries (no more misspellings of Forester!).
Comments
Now that I think about it, isn't the G35 on the FM platform, shared by the Z, and the Altima completely seperate?
-juice
Room inside is good, and the wagon had a cool flip-down seat feature where all you had to do is press a button. Subaru could borrow that feature and I wouldn't mind one bit.
-juice
-Eric
The FX uses the FM platform (RWD based) and the Murano uses the Altima (FWD based). Supposedly they are completely separate cars and don't even share a lot of the same components...seems like a lot of extra expense when they end up being so similar...I really liked the Murano at first but after seeing it up close...yuck! It seems to be all style and very little function. And after never even considering Volvo before I have to say I loved the XC70. The XC90 is great too, but the 70 would suit me fine. (And it's got a much better AWD system this year too.)
I always thought the Forester was slightly oddly proportioned - a little too much greenhouse for the body - but these two, especially the FX, go too far in the opposite direction. Tiny greenhouses on big bodies, like Zippy the pinhead. Huge bilnd spots in those greenhouses as well. Wheel and tire combos with no pretense of rough-roadability, much less off-roadability, but with a big nod to bling-bling culture.
I'd agree with jthorsen that these two are very much style over substance.
Ed
Jim
P.S. Is everybody glued to CNN or something?
This after I hated the XC70 on a test drive I took a couple of years ago, with the old AWD system.
Murano is stlyish but it also performs favorably compared to the Pilot or Highlander, it's a much sporiter handler.
-juice
www.chevrolet.co.in
Subaru forester sold as Chevy Forester for 15.5 laks of Indian Rupees, which is $30,000.
that too for a 2.0L engine. Heaven help me !
-juice
-mike
-juice
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33- - - 7292
A few tidbits:
• It's official: No moonroof or AWP for WRX wagon.
• STi has a longer 100.0" wheelbase (all other Imprezas have a 99.4" wheelbase).
• All Imprezas, including the TS, have rear disk brakes. My guess is the Forester X will probably also get them for '04 too.
• It appears the OBS info is once again now included in the Impreza brochure; unlike last year's brochure, which only had the OBS info in the Outback brochure.
• All Imprezas—including the STi—are rated to tow 2000 pounds. This is especially unusual considering last year, only the WRX wagon (and not the sedan) were rated to tow anything. Hmmm... I can just imagine myself pulling into the county landfill (which is off-roading at its best!) with my trailer loaded with yard waste, attached to an STi...
* = If you want to print it out on 8.5"x11" paper, you will need to reduce it by 33%, via your printer.
Bob
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33- - 7582
Bob
-Dennis
Sweet news about the rear discs on the TS, we've been lobbying for that for 5 years. Success!
Bummer about the moonroof, that's gonna help Forester XT/Premium sales, watch.
-juice
-mike
-B
Ken
-juice
Bob
-juice
No, what I meant to say was that only the OBS wagon got the ambient temp gauge. I originally didn't notice that the WRX sedan also doesn't get it.
Ken
I'm not convinced that a Subaru-Saab relationship is that great. It could put a ceiling as to how high in the marketplace Subaru could attain. Also, I'm not convinced Saab will survive regardless of what input Subaru offers, and I would hate to see Subaru dragged down with Saab if it should sink.
On the other hand, a Subaru/Saab alliance makes more sense than any other Subaru/<insert GM brand> would make. Let's pray for the best...
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_saab_faces_tough/index.htm
Bob
It won't necessarily limit Subaru's other model lines, and the STi would already be here. Let Saab do the glove-soft leather and wood trim stuff.
-juice
Ken
mostly all subes are 4k off MSRP......incl. H6.
No wonder Subes have the higest sales figures
I wonder if those are cloth models.
-juice
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_subaru_ties_armstrong/index.htm
The Baja turbo will be announced at the NY show, as per this link—but we already knew that.
Bob
It'll be cool to see the Baja turbo, I wonder if they'll have prices. Hope they let us get inside a Forester XT, too.
-juice
Bob
Like I said, I'm not holding my breath...
Bob
I wonder if Subaru is considering replacing model names like Impreza, Forester, etc., with alpha-numeric names like B5, B7, etc.?
Bob
Ken
Names like "22B" used to give the displacement, 2.2l Boxer.
I think it would not be smart to dump the names, look at what happened to Acura after they renamed the Legend the RL. Sales plummeted.
-juice
Only the RL suffered any long term damage, and that's more because of the car, not the name change. The Integra and Vigor didn't suffer. If anything the Vigor replacement is far more successful.
Bob
Bob
Impreza WRX = B5WRX
Impreza 2.5RS = B5RS
Impreza 2.5TS = B5TS
Forester 2.5XT = B7XT
Legacy GT = B9GT
It has a very precise and "engineering" ring to it, I think. It's very European, and not Japanese.
Bob
http://www.subaru.com/home/about/isuzu_auto.jsp
Hope this link works, it is a page that list the models built here in Indiana and the "Baja turbo" is on the list
TWRX
-Brian
Bob
anybody heard of brake pulsating ? i left my 01OB unused for 3 weeks & it has rusted, my steering wobbles when i apply brakes. How come the same thing did not happen to my 02 MPV (unused for 3 weeks)....not happy with Subaru on this !
http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/ms/gen2003/press_b11s_en.html
I wonder if SoA will remove that Baja turbo link? :-)
-Dennis
As for the wobble/pulse, check your lugnuts, if there is a dramatic change in temps your lugs may have loosened up.
-mike
If Subaru wants to dramatically change what the market thinks of Subaru—outside of gearheads like us, a sweeping change in product names is one way of doing that. Subaru has to be careful however. They have a lot of name-equity in some of their product names, and they don't want to risk losing that. Here's a suggestion:
Replace the "car" line names with an alphanumeric system, like what's been suggested. Keep the current names for SUV and crossover-like models. For example:
• Justy (replacement) becomes a B5.
• Impreza becomes a B7.
• Legacy becomes a B9
• GT coupe (neo-SVX) becomes B11, as per concept.
This is all predicated that these cars will all have boxer engines, hence the "B" designation. The numbers (5, 7, etc.) signify the body size. Sub-designations (WRX, RS, GT and engine size, 2.5, 3.0, etc.) can also be added to the end.
• Forester name remains.
• Baja name remains.
• Outback name remains.
• Upcoming 7-passenger crossover gets a "name," not an alphanumeric designation.
Bob
Naming convention: I like an alphanumeric system also. It gives a better idea of the product portfolio and gets rid of the problem where some names can sound goofy in some countries (no more misspellings of Forester!).
Ken