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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Every time I load it I see it! I'm clicking on the same link you posted too!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I like that sketch. Delete the fender flares, save those for the Forester, but the basic design is nice and distinctive.

    I see "NA" for the AWP too.

    Maybe Bob is employing wishful thinking! Or his eyesight is geezin'! :-)

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    I wouldn't work myself into a lather just yet since that's hardly an official Subaru site and it even then it has a disclaimer up front stating that the info is subject to change.

    -frank P.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
  • twrxtwrx Posts: 647
    Joe Spitz site is usually pretty accurate. He had the pricing of the H6 OB and OB premium sound edition almost a month ago.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    ...and you didn't mention it to us. ;-)

    Were the prices accurate? Let's see if he can come up with pricing on the turbo models of the Forester and Baja soon.

    -juice
  • twrxtwrx Posts: 647
    but I forgot to mention it when it came out. he does have the prices for the new WRX's.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It's cool, I'm just yanking your chain.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    from that site into here, so if I'm geezing, so's my computer. ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You still using that Mac II? ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Not having AWP for the wagon really doesn't jive. I'd expect wagon owners to tend towards more 'outdoorsy' activities due to the versatility of the cargo space. To me, that means skiing and 'boarding -- AWP is a godsend for those two.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yep - they have roof racks while sedans don't. The extra cargo space would tend to haul ski boots and stuff better, too.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    suggests that the Baja will indeed be here until at least 2006.

    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4808

    Bob
  • bsvollerbsvoller Posts: 528
    This link suggests Subies have a CVT in their future:
    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4340

    -brianV
  • hypovhypov Posts: 3,068
    Somw shots a former work colleague took while home in Europe.

    http://community.webshots.com/user/shervyn

    -Dave
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    FWIW, we have a JATCO 5sp AT in our MPV.

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Subaru has used CVTs before, in the Justy which is currently only sold in Europe—and is in desperate need of replacement.

    I hope, with Nissan's apparent success with the CVT-equipped Murano, Subaru will at some point include CVTs in their larger vehicles too.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Not really, Bob. It could supply the Baja at first, then continue supplying the other models until 2006.

    Check this out, from that 2nd story:

    Good: introducing the fourth-generation Legacy -- its flagship model -- by this summer.

    Bad: step up our cost-cutting efforts

    Great: new flagship model which we are developing

    Flagship as in the Big SUW, or the B11S? Hopefully both!

    Does JATCO have CVT experience? Who makes the Murano's unit?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    That link says this deal "begins" with the 2006 model year. It's not starting now, and then goes to 2006.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It may just be optimistic marketing. They're known for that. I'm sure they pretty much assume the Sport and turbo will triple sales. We'll see.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I have a feeling that they are gonna build the SUW on the same platform as the B11s.

    Why? The B11s is a wide platform. You can stretch it, add a raised suspension, and bang you've got a perfect SUW platform. And that 3.0 twin turbo engine will have enough grunt to tow quite a bit, maybe detuned for HP and uptuned for lower end torque and add low-range....

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It did look wider than even the Legacy...

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Is like 2" narrower than the H2 IIRC. It's VERY wide.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    ------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------
    1992-7 1999 2001 2003 2003 2004
    SVX Fleet-X WX-01 B11S Legacy STi
    ----------------------------------------------
    182.1 181.1 188.8 188.4 184.4 173.4 Length
    69.7 69.3 72.4 76.2 68.7 68.1 Width
    48.4 56.3 64.2 53.9 55.7 56.7 Height
    102.8 108.7 108.3 110.2 104.3 100.0 Wheelbase
    59.1 ?? ?? 64.0 57.5 58.7 Front track
    58.3 ?? ?? 63.4 57.3 58.5 Rear track

    The B11S has a very long (by Subie standards) wheelbase too. So, Mike could be right in that it could possibly be used as a spin-off from the 7-passenger crossover.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Holy cow, it's by far the longest wheelbase and widest Subie ever!

    Nice call mike.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Posts: 528
    Yes, but even that wheelbase is 2" shorter than a shorty mini-van, which makes it really tight for a 7-passenger SUW version.

    Unless the boxer layout buys them some space up front, they'll need to go up a bit to squeeze 7 passengers in.

    -brianV
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    but Honda's Pilot and Acura's MDX has ~ 107" wheelbase, with 3-row seating. Granted the third row is for kids or midgets. Maybe that's what Subaru has in mind too?

    Bob
  • bsvollerbsvoller Posts: 528
    Hope not. Since we can't afford a new car until the SUW is out, I'm hoping to buy a "Mazda" MPV from Subaru ! You may recall that was one of my major requests in the new "Suggestions" topic.

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Packaging is gonna be tough any way you look at it. With AWD there is a rear diffy under the area where the 3rd seat will go, so it'll either have to be taller or the foot well won't be deep.

    I don't even think length is the problem, it's height.

    For me, a Pilot-sized 3rd seat would be fine, I'd still probably buy one.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Posts: 528
    I'd expect a footwell with a "tranny hump" in the middle. On the Japanese AWD MPV, they've fit the "magic 3rd seat" well behind the rear axle, so they've solved that part of the problem.

    With the tranny hump back there, it's all the more reason to not skimp on the wheelbase, though.

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I have a feeling that vehicle will have a roof with a bump up farther back than the current Outback's. The next Legacy is supposed to get rid of that hump, but I bet the big SUW keeps it.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The upcoming AutoWeek "Fast Poll" is:

    Which Geneva concepts should be made? Which should be trashed?

    E-mail your answers (and reasons) to:

    [email protected]

    Include your name, address, phone number and get it in by March 20th.

    My choices:

    Yes: Subie B11S
    The long-awaited Neo-SVX! Build it Subaru!

    No: A-Level Volga V12 coupe.
    Besides the goofy name, suddenly it's 1958!

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The wheelbase is very easy to stretch. Widening the car on the other hand is very difficult. They could easily stretch the B11S chassis and still have enough width to support it.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    has some interesting updates:

    • Forester XT: It looks like the cloth seats on the XT may have more side bolstering, like the WRX seat. SOC refers to them as "sport seats." Not so with leather seat option however!? Hope we get those cloth seats!

    • Forester has different roof rack cross bars than US-spec models.

    • Canadian Bajas have heated seats.

    http://www.subaru.ca/

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Much of the discussion regarding the B11S centers on the front grille. Many feel it bears no relation to any previous Subie; or that it's too radical change for Subaru; or that it's an Alfa rip-off; or that it's an Edsel rip off, and that Subaru will surely suffer the same fate of the Edsel if it uses this grille, or anything like it.

    My initial thought when I saw it was very positive, and that it reminded me of a Christmas Tree. Ed thought it looked like a bathroom scale. I've since read, from Subie sources, that it was inspired by the intake of a jet engine, and that Subaru has some aviation in its history. So, there is a "Subaru" link there for those who said it has nothing to do with the brand. Actually I rather like the "official" Subaru explanation. Can you imagine, upon the B11S's introduction, that a Subaru spokesman would say: "We were inspired by a Christmas Tree," or: "We were inspired by a bathroom scale?" Nope, I much prefer the official corporate line...

    As to those other critics:

    • The Alfa rip-off conspiracy:
    Actually, the grille is 180º from that of the Alfa. Also the Alfa grille is very narrow and dagger-like, whereas the B11S's grille is much broader (wider) at the base.

    • The grille needs to be more "horizontal," and less "vertical," or not so focused on the "center" of the front end:
    Well, there are far more cars out there with a horizontal-theme front-end than there are ones with a vertical/center-theme front-end. So distinguishing Subaru from the masses is going to be much more difficult if it stays on it current design path. Actually, there are a lot of cars, besides Alfa and Edsel, which have followed this vertical/center-theme front-end approach, and quite successfully I might add: There's the Jaguar XK120/140/150, The Jaguar 3.8 and S-Type, BMW, and Bugatti. Also, I believe the European brand Seat also has a similar front-end theme; and to a lesser degree, Saab and Volvo too. So, it's not just a "Alfa" rip-off, but more a "European" rip-off. I don't have problem with that.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Width was being limited by japanese laws and taxes. I think for the next Legacy they have to break that barrier.

    If so, that means any engine could be stroked. You guys could get that 3.3-3.5l H6 you've been asking for. If the 3.0l is rumored to get up to 240hp, imagine what a bigger H6 could do?

    I will fire that e-mail to Autoweek shortly. Let's see if any of us get published again.

    -juice

    PS I'm being interviewed for a book about the auto industry, that would be a first for me!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'm getting interviewed too! :)

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Not sure if I should post here or in Forester forum but I stopped by the local Subie dealer on my lunch break. A salesman there told me they were expecting deliveries of the Forester XT "before Memorial Day," in about two months. He had no promotional materials to share with me. (IIRC I saw someone on NASIOC who wrote that they had gotten an XT CD-ROM from their dealer.) Of course I take all this with several grains of salt but thought it worth passing on to the group.

    I also saw an XS in the black-over-slate color combo that's very similar to my own car. Looks nice, but the brownish undertone to the new Java Black Pearl doesn't go quite as well with the slate as the reddish undertone of the Black Diamond Pearl on the 98-00 cars.

    Ed
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It was cool to see that B11S-ed WRX sketch. Anyone feel up to sketching the next Forester or Legacy with B11S influence?

    -juice
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Posts: 158
    whoever suggested the "Suggestions for Subaru" discussion killed this forum. You just happened to post here last! LOL! ;-)

    -Ian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They do overlap a lot.

    Thing is, the info for the Forester XT and 2004 Impreza is out, but noone has driven one. There hasn't been anything new since the Geneva show a couple of weeks ago.

    That plus we moved the chit-chat about other competing models over to the Cafe. This formerly popular topic doesn't have much left in it!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    << It was cool to see that B11S-ed WRX sketch. Anyone feel up to sketching the next Forester or Legacy with B11S influence? >>

    That same nasioc thread now also has a Forester sketch too. It's not very successful IMO.

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    we're still waiting for Patti to find out about the 'direct-control' feature on the XT. She was going to look into it for us.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll check it out...yeah, looks too much like a triangle tacked onto the old design.

    I like the WRX-ized fenders on the sedan, though.

    The stretched wheelbase looked bad - reminded me of an Escort 5 door hatch back!

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Posts: 528
    Hummer H2: You've got to be kidding. The worst use of interior space on the planet. Love the jump seat in the back squeezed in next to the oversized spare. How inviting... Inside door handles right out of Buck Rodgers... Everything's oversized and dumpy on purpose.

    '04 Sienna: Ummm, lots of nice features inside, ugly outside. Definately a bus. The sliding doors are so large, they look like they came off the H2... If they made the bumper any taller, you'd swear it was a Dodge RAM SUV. They'll sell like hotcakes though.

    Altima: Beautiful outside, strikingly chinsy inside. Extremely poor plastic moldings, fit and finish, like a Yugo. Very disappointing.

    Murano, FX35/45: Kudo's for daring design. Really not my style though. The grill design on the Murano looks like a cheap prop from "Space 1999". Lose the chrome.

    '04 Quest: Kudo's for daring design again, interesting features. Dash layout looks like the transporter controls on the 60's StarTrek original series. I'm not into gratuituous design statements, personally, a bit shrill. Also a bus.

    Volvo V70, XC70: Nice cars, but pricey.

    STi: It was there, but you could only drool over it from a distance.

    Mitsu: Strange line-up. The Evo was a no show, much to the disappointment of my buddy.

    Forester/Legacy: The new Forester has virtually the same rear knee room as the Outback. A lot less headroom than my '01 though.

    Mazda 6: Gorgeous inside and out. A winner.

    MPV: The only 'mini'-van left (DC Caravan excluded on reliability grounds). AWD and rear discs would help in the dollar value contest against the big bruisers. Go for sporty, you're the only ones who can.

    Civic IMA: This would be a real second car! The trunk is so spacious, we thought they took the batteries out. 48 mpg in the city. ULEV. MSRP= $20K. Seats 5 comfortably. Looks to be a mature idea, surprisingly.

    Element: Ummm, not my style. Can't get past the dumb looks, sorry. If the novelty ever wears off, don't plan on resale, despite the Honda badge...

    Ody: Easily the best of the big vans. Discrete styling, plenty of room, gobs of power, refined. Still too big for me, personally, but clearly the one to beat among the big boys.

    We looked at lots of other dream cars, and such, but that's all pie in the sky unless I win the lotto...

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    How does the 2nd row in the Sienna fold? One source said they'd fold flat, but I don't see how they could.

    I'm not sure if you meant that the Murano and FX share a platform, but interestingly they don't. The Murano is FWD Altima based, the FX is RWD based.

    -juice
  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    Murano and FX do share the FM platform, which can accomodate FWD, RWD and AWD.
  • bsvollerbsvoller Posts: 528
    Murano/FX: Can't say if they really share the same platform, but they sure look like they do.

    Sienna: Forgot to try the folding second row bit, sorry. The third row "magic seat" is split, which is a nice feature. Enormous 2nd row windows roll down, like the MPV. It really does have a lot of nice features, but it is HUGE, at least by my standards. Looking in the rear view mirror was like viewing this enormous cavern behind you. Sheesh. Might as well buy an Excursion...

    I have to say that the industry seems to be moving away from my tastes at warp speed. One of the trends is towards higher beltlines and narrower windows, top to bottom, which can't aid visibility. Porsche Cayenne (bigger than it looks in pictures - too big to be sporty), and the Nissan Murano/FX are examples, among others.

    What I experience as gratuituous styling elements seem all the rage too. The back end of the BMW 7-series has 14 different things going on at once, like the design team couldn't decide, so they did all of them. I'm just an old fashioned "form follows function" kind of guy. Most of the BMW's are so clean, it's really an anomoly. Audi's line is sweet that way. They had an RS6 there, very pretty, in a non-descript kind of way.

    Ah well, "know what you like, know what you don't like..."

    -brianV
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