Subaru Crew - Modifications II

ateixeira · November 2001

Pat: I meant the regular brakes. My rears are drums.

WDB: some times I wish more people thought that way. There are way too many distraction inside cars nowadays.

-juice

armac13 · November 2001

Good report on the real Minis. My '69 Cooper had the Hydrolastic suspension, the '76 Mini had the rubber cone. There was no comparison IMHO. The Hydrolastic was both much more responsive and substantially smoother. I also briefly has an Austin 1800 with the Hydrolastic - very smooth until it failed. Too expensive to repair so the 1800 was retired.

Ross

hondafriek · November 2001

I forgot you had the L model, its dead simple to check the brakes, just take off a wheel some cars have two cross head screws holding the drum on, remove these and just slide the drum off.

BTW. wear a dust mask when you pull the drums off they will be full of brake dust,clean everything up before you put the drum back on.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · November 2001

Great, thanks. You just created a weekend project for this OCDer. ;-)

-juice

hondafriek · November 2001

Have fun, this is how we learn about what makes our cars tick.

Cheers Pat.

rplum · November 2001

Hey all,

does anybody here have any experience with the various lightweight battery replacements out there?

my 1998 Impreza is getting a new battery.

Right now I'm leaning towards the

Westco Miata battery replacement(25lbs, $85),

or the Dyna-Batt (13.5lbs, $147ish).

any first hand experience out there?

thanks,

Ryan
(has links to the above sites, but I seem to recall that stuff like that isn't good juju on this board)

ateixeira · November 2001

There are red flags lighting up in my head - isn't the Miata's battery specifically designed for the Miata? Will it even work in other cars without some kind of adaptation?

-juice

rplum · November 2001

juice,

I've never read that anywhere, here's a pretty good, non commercial write-up:

http://www.miata.net/garage/battery.html

the Westco is my frontrunner right now.

Ryan

locke2c · November 2001

Juice, the Miata battery is a regular 12 volt battery it's just small. You could run a car without fault on the 12 volt batteries used in most late-model riding lawnmowers if it had enough amps to turn your starter. In fact, some autocrossers do.

Ryan, what's the CCA of the stock battery? 470 isn't bad for something so small, and my wife's Miata had no problems last winter although I would personally tend towards putting a 700-800 CCA DieHard in my Impreza once my stock battery has given up the ghost.

-Colin

ateixeira · November 2001

I guess that's for weight savings, then.

I'm sure a tiny in-line four is a lot easier to crank than a 2.5l boxer.

What about the American Eagle battery in that article? My Panasonic was replaced, and IIRC I have a WestCo in my Miata now.

-juice

rplum · November 2001

yeah, the Die Hard would be fine, but wouldn't help my weight saving much...he he.

The only catch with the AGM batteries (i.e. the Westco) seems to be the required slow trickle recharge rate. Of course they'll be happy to sell me their low amp charger.

The car isn't a daily driver though, so If I have to jump it on occasion, it's not a huge deal.

I wonder if anybody make a charger that will let me swap between the 20A and 1A charge rates, so I could use it on my normal batteried cars as well........

Ryan
-perhaps expecting too much.

more info (clipped) from the miata page:

In 1985, when the Miata was taking shape in Irvine, a new battery technology was being used in military aircraft. The paramount considerations of power, weight, safety, and reliability were the selling points of this new type of battery. The new technology was AGM or Absorption Glass Mat. This technology was an evolution of previous battery technologies, including gel cells.

One of the differences with the AGM battery compared to the wet-cell battery is the recharge rate. That is, how fast you can put energy back into the battery. With a wet-cell battery you can "quick charge" it at about 20 amps or more. Usually this is when you would boil the electrolyte right out of the battery. The AGM batteries require a lower charge rate, for a longer time period. If your battery will not crank the engine, you should charge the battery at a rate of 1 amp or less for 18-24 hours. If you try and charge it like a wet-cell battery, you will destroy the battery.

WestCo has a small battery charger for the Miata for those who drive their car infrequently. The EZ-12R is a ½ amp charger that will automatically maintain the charge in the battery. The advantage of this charger is you can leave it plugged in and it will not overcharge the Miata battery.

ateixeira · November 2001

Ryan: just park at the top of a hill, facing down. I had a friend in high school that owned a Renault. :-)

How fast does a running car charge it's battery with the Alternator? Is it the equivalent of a trickle-charge?

-juice

hondafriek · November 2001

The charge rate on a running Car is 14.5 volts, and can be as high as 30 amps depending on the state of the battery and that is certainly not trickle charging.

BTW. I understand that if you are charging any battery with a battery charger it is preferable to trickle charge apparently fast or high charging shortens the life of the batteru considerably.

Cheers Pat.

hondafriek · November 2001

Colin nailed right on the head, you want the highest cold cranking amps you can get.

If you live in Ottawa Canada weight of the battery is not a consideration, getting the sucker started at 35 below celsius is a far greater consideration therefore the biggest battery that will fit is the one you use.

The only time I could think it would be less of a problem would be in a summer driven car.

Cheers Pat.

locke2c · November 2001

actually juice, a healthy alternator should be providing 100% of the power required by the vehicle when it's running. Pat is also right about charging, although deep-cycle gel-cell batteries are immune to that sort of problem. I doubt they make any 'light' versions of those, but I could be wrong.

ryan: I bought a craftsman charger some years ago that supports 4 charging modes: 50a (starting only) 30a, 20a, and 3a trickle.

-Colin

ateixeira · November 2001

I remember having to trickle charge my motorcycle batteries, now that I think of it. It was a friend's charger, though.

But the reason I asked the question about the trickle charge is this - if Ryan hooks up a WestCo, won't his Subaru try to charge it rapidly, and damage the battery?

-juice

rplum · November 2001

Ordered the Westco.

perhaps I'll even trunk mount it. Alternator charging shouldn't be a problem. The Miata system (which also charges the US replacement wet cell battery) should work just like the Subaru and vice versa.

I should have it Friday or Monday. report to follow, and of course some Michigan winter durability testing. although our 60 degree weather now hardly qualifies as winter in my mind.

Ryan

ateixeira · November 2001

Cool. I can host photos of the swap if you want, unless Colin beats me to it (again). ;-)

-juice

ramon · November 2001

They rock! Went to Mosport for a day of lapping.
Oh boy! It was fun fun fun! The day was fantastic. It was partly organized by the Honda Prelude club of Toronto. The invitation was extended to us. A few of us went. We all met up together before caravaning to the track. Was well organized. There were some who went for the car control school. Actually most of the prelude boys went to the school. So that left us to do lapping. Lots of cars showed up later. 2 Vipers, a new M3, a kit car, supercharged miata, mr2...the likes. But we totally tore up the track. Yup. The track was quite technical with 16 elevation changes. It was awesome! Of course I remounted my S-03s. They were fantastic. Pulled on Type-Rs, Vipers, Mustang GTs, MR2s all day. The type R guy who did this a few times more than me came later to ask me if I did this before. He was shocked when I told him it was my first time. Guess my Solo II experience also helped. The best was when I pulled on one of the GTS Viper. He was fast on the straights but the techincality of the track slowed him down, that's when the AWD of my lil RS really bite it's lil Viper tail. After a few laps hanging by his rear, the driver gave up and pulled to the pits to let me pass. Hahaha...
All in all it was a good time. My poor tires are prolly half worn now. Alot of guys there were totall impressed with the Scoobies. They came and asked us how come we were so much faster, and we told him that with the off camber turns coupled with some undulations in some corners gave our cars the advantage in which we can put the power down much faster than those 2WDs.

wmiller4 · November 2001

Just thinking things over........

Anyone have any information on the following:

Front Strut Brace. Any gains on handling? Is there one
out there for MY 02? Costs?

Rear Anti-Sway Bar. Stock bar looks quite "thin".
What size should I go with? Any gains in handling?
I do not want to get too wild! Is there one out there
for MY 02? Costs?

Thank you in advance.

lucien2 · November 2001

I posted this on that "other" Subaru Enthusiast board as part of a larger tire discussion.....

I guess a lot of us are at the end of the RE92 service life....

Here's my experience. I bought a set of barely used S-03 205/55/16s (thank you Jon Bogert) and mounted them on my GT's stock rims. Then I realized I'll need winter tires, and picked up a set of '00 RS rims (thank you boebe999) with 215/50/16 G-Force KDWs already on them. my unscientific analysis:

KDW- loud as hell. Sounds like I have a vacuum cleaner in the car. Grip is good, but they get a little squirrelly at the limit. At the threshold of performance, they are a bit unpredictable and don't talk to me as well as the S-03, and therefore aren't as confidence inspriring. Luckily, the car itself does a pretty good job and I've had enough track seat time to know if the $heet is getting ready to hit the fan. Still and all, it is a good handler that I would be happy with (although it is noisy), if I hadn't ever spent time with.....

S-03. My car's best friend. Even with the slightly taller sidewall, these are the most inspiring tires I have ever driven. Gobs and gobs of grip all the time, and very collected in the rain. Breakaway is smooth and progressive, with plenty of warning for the driver who knows how to listen (with your fingertips). I didn't pay retail, thank God, but I will gladly shell out the retail price for these next go 'round. The single most dramatic improvement I could possibly have made. Now, what to do for the cold weather.......

lucien2 · November 2001

I think a strut brace is a waste of cash in your case. The '02 BH Legacy body is what, 122% stiffer than the BF-BG, something like that. An increase in rear sway bar rate will erase, at least partially, the natural tendency to understeer that has been engineered into your car. A 20 or 22mm bar for that car might be a decent upgrade IF you want more oversteer, but I really must caution anyone who wants to do this without taking the time to know how to handle a car with neutral-to-oversteer bias characteristics. (Yikes, I'm starting to sound like some of those insufferable BMW CCA guys). I know my wife mentioned our OB wanted to come around a bit quicker than it used to, after an experience in the rain on an exit ramp. BUT she has a little track time under her belt, and has gone on to drive in a couple autocrosses, so she knows what to do with it. Plus she insists on 5-speeds and yearns for either a WRX or Mini Cooper, so she's not yer average American driver, yea?
BTW, this was a modest upgrade from 18 to 20, so the car is still a loooong way from exhibiting dangerous "snap" oversteer traits.

Having said that, we both love the car with the 20mm bar, and it has been a hoot at the track too(!!). We have a BG Outback and a BG GT; your BH Outback is prolly a good 300lbs heavier, so the stock bar may be more than the 18mm bar that came with ours.

locke2c · November 2001

Loosh, glad to hear you like those S-03s. That was quite a deal you got from Jon. Didn't he want them to have a harder edge like the S-02? I think I remember him saying that they were a little to comfortable for him, or something like that.

No doubt they're an awesome tire though!

-Colin

ramon · November 2001

what blows me away is it's wet traction! Holy Christmas! That thing just stick stick stick ....and sticks some more! I chickened out after taking a 40 km/h curve at 100km/h in the wet!
The tread ain't as kewl as the S-02s tho. Oh well...

lucien2 · November 2001

He said the turn-in wasn't aggresive enough for him. Seems to me you could solve that with pressure changes, but I surely came out on the good end of the deal, so.....

ramon- it's all true! tread does look wimpy, but I prefer performance to looks anyway. Plus it fools auto-x newbies/ :-)

Damn, now I miss them. I've fot the G-force KDWs on right now, since they are almost worn and the S-03s are almost new. I figure I'll get through the winter on them, switch to L-81s for any massive snow days, and get into my S-03s next season.

p0926 · November 2001

Loosh- Massive snow days? What you move up north where it really snows? The Baltimore area gets what, maybe one 6" plus snow storm a year? :-)

-Frank P.

oclvframe · November 2001

I have ordered the '02 Bean's console cover with the two cup holders and re-located heater switches...some parts have arrived but not the little rubber flange that holds the cups in place so I won't pick them up until it is all here. Can't wait to swap that stuff out...that is minor gripe I have about the '01 is knocking the seat heater switches when putting my water bottle back in the cup holder.

I will let y'all know how it goes once it is in.

BTW its not very expensive a mod either...the maine console cover plus the tow cup holder parts are mayb $40 total.

-r

hondafriek · November 2001

I posted this not so long ago and you must have missed it.

You have to swap out the whole console as the new top panel with the two cupholders does not fit the model years 2000 and 2001.

I have just done this swap on my 2001 GT wagon so I know of which I speak.

Subaru had to modify the whole console in order to incorparate the two cupholders, sorry to rain on your parade but it is not a cheap swap.

Cheers Pat.

lucien2 · November 2001

is the forecast for the region this year. 2 years ago we had 18"in one week. last year we had maybe 6" all year. *shrug*

ateixeira · November 2001

ramon: a scooby that plays with snakes before it eats them up at the track? I guess we'll have to nickname yours the Mongoose.

Nice driving.

We're supposed to get a cold winter. We'll see if we get precipitation, though.

Pat: I went to a dealer on Saturday and saw the new console. Nice - you can hold two mugs, even. The lit ignition ring is really nice - all Subies should get it.

Still can't talk the wife into a wagon, though. They had a Forester S Premium and an Outback Limited side-by-side, and she still preferred the Forester because "it's not a wagon".

-juice

rsholland · November 2001

my wife was the same way. She preferred the Forester for the exact same reason.

Bob

ateixeira · November 2001

No sale, though, she said we already had one. Oh well, maybe the 2003 will be different enough. Or the 2004 turbo would convince her, I bet.

-juice

locke2c · November 2001

Hah, my wife seems to think along similar lines. Since my Impreza went down with the coolant leak last week, I've had my dad's '99 4Runner since he's out of town on business.

She likes it quite a lot, other than being utterly gutless (3.4L, auto, 4wd). Cannot convince her that a WRX wagon is cool, but I bet she'd spring for a Forester... maybe "Brat", our dogs are small so plenty of room for them.

-Colin

ateixeira · November 2001

2004 Forester turbo would be easy to tolerate. That's what I'm thinking right now.

I guess you know you made a good choice when you shop for you next vehicle and you end up at the same exact thing even years later.

-juice

hondafriek · November 2001

Yeah I really like my new console,it is worth just for the relocated switch,s, no more knocking them on accidently.

The dealer tells me you have to buy the whole ignition switch to get the lighted ring, I cannot see it as the old black collar is separate from the switch I think the new lighted ring is the same way.

They just cannot see this on the parts list, so there is no convincing them it is separate.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · November 2001

Too bad we don't have Darlene around to hunt for part numbers...

-juice

hondafriek · November 2001

Wonder If I could convince them to let me pull the Plastic cover to have a look at the lighted ring on an actual car.

Might be worth a try they can only say no.

Cheers Pat.

ramon · November 2001

u shud tally up MR2s, Mustang GT Cobras, and an Integra Type R who in the middle of the track put on hazards as a sign of "I give up...". He was kewl tho. He came up to me later to compliment how I drove.

They are all nice ppl playing in a nice track on nice day.

ateixeira · November 2001

Pat: go for a long test drive, and take a peek. I doubt the dealer would give the okay.

Good to hear about the sportsmanship, ramon.

-juice

oclvframe · November 2001

Pat, You are correct, I did miss your post. What parts did you have to swap besides the actual cover? If you have the part #s it would help tremendously! They guy I am getting the parts from ordered a couple of the wrong parts because they were listed incorrectly on his computer.

I do want to go through with the mod since it just makes a lot more sense than the 2001 version.

Thanks for any info!

-r

hondafriek · November 2001

Unfortunately, when you take a test drive here you usually have to put up with a salesman coming along and yapping in your ear.

Cheers Pat.

hondafriek · November 2001

You have to swap out the complete centre console,it is not a cheap swap, over $500 Canadian.

My daughter bought mine as a christmas gift as I wanted it but did not want spend that amount of money.

She got it from a dealer in the Nashville area and she would not tell me what she paid since it was a gift I don,t think it will be cheap in the states either.

You need console box assembly part #92111AE14AML.

console cover part# 92132AEO7AML.

switch case console part# 9217AE12AML.

cupholder cap part# 66155AE03AML.

cupholder support Part# 66155AE02A.

There may be some little parts I missed as I had to swap over bits of my console.

Cheers Pat.

hondafriek · November 2001

There is a pair of WRX seats for sale in the I club, Guy is asking $ 400 for the Pair.Actually there are two Pair, also a totalled WRX on Ebay.

Cheers Pat.

armac13 · November 2001

I assume that is US$. I would be oh-so-tempted if they just bolted right in without any modifications. I may have to wait for Rufus's "paid off" party, and that's not for quite a while yet.

Ross

locke2c · November 2001

I wouldn't bother, the RS seats are very nearly as good and much lighter due to the lack of side airbags.

-Colin

armac13 · November 2001

But I liked the feel of the WRX seats so much that I had to install a moon roof in Rufus to make him feel better - he got jealous. :~) The lever action for raising/lowering the seats is excellent. Actually, the seats in all of the new Imprezas are wonderful IMO.

Ross

lucien2 · November 2001

No one is hotting up the interiors of their RS anymore. Hardcore RS pilots aren't stupid enough to sell their seats

ateixeira · November 2001

The WRX seats won't match my interior, and it seems like a waste to not hook up the side air bags. But thanks for pointing it out.

-juice

rplum · November 2001

I see that the Morette headlamp assemblies are on sale again on the iclub (Vendors For Sale Forum, Adam Bloom's Shop....). Anyone here seen them up close or in person? Anyone have them? I'd never spend $300+ on stereo stuff, but I could potentially justify it on another lighting upgrade. I've been spoiled by the Audi's and BMWs we've had in here testing.....

RP
-save your integra jokes please...

ateixeira · November 2001

You mean the black ones with two small round lights? I saw one at Da Big Meet, even got photos, but left the diskette at home.

I dunno, they still look odd to me. If you wanted a rally replica I guess they work.

-juice

Subaru Crew - Modifications II

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