Subaru Crew - Modifications II

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Comments

  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I'm not sure I'd call the stock LGT a 'practical' car. ;-)

    When I think 'practical' I think basic transportation that gets you from point A to B with good gas mileage. Kinda like a Toyotal Corolla or Honda Civic. Maybe a hybrid (but they're so expensive it would take 5-10 years to break even with the gas mileage savings).

    Nah, I bought my LGT to have a little fun a long the way, but it's not entirely practical. (Uh, don't tell my wife I said this! ) But I agree with Colin, add 50 hp and it becomes 'less practical'.

    tom
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Along the same lines as what Colin is saying, Don't ever buy a daily driver and then Modify the thing.

    (1) your warranty is shot.
    (2) Reliability becomes questionable.
    (3) It becomes a bigger pain in the butt to maintain on a regular basis.
    (4) buy what you want in the first place, if you wanted 300HP buy it to begin with, then if anything breaks in the warranty period it is the car makers problem not yours.

    Cheers Pat.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I have to disagree with your definitions of "heavily modded". Plenty of packages for the WRX will bump 40-60hp with only a turbo-back exhaust and a reflash. No-one on the darkseid aka Nabisco would consider that heavy. (It's something that any muffler shop should be capable of doing for you.) Many of these do have medium term, good reliability. This is of course a relative term, but think the Pro-drive packages for example. Those same relative mods would easily push the GT to 300.
    Heavy I'm thinking new turbo, injectors, FMIC, headers, CAI, MBC, coilovers, strut towers....I'll stop there, you get the point. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to push an extra 50hp, just that it doesn't require "heavy" modifications.

    Juice, are you sure the GT/XT have the same forged internals as the STi and not just the same block btw?
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I humbly, but firmly, disagree. A WRX cannot gain 40-60 HP without altering the boost, and ANY increase in boost is something I consider a "heavy" modification and it definitely tosses your engine's warranty out the window if you get caught.

    ~Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Okay this old fogie wants to know what qualifies as a "heavy mod"... NOX? :P

    -Frank
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I don't know where you got the idea that an exhaust and a reflash is gonna give you 50 or 60HP. (1) if it were that easy and cheap to gain HP everybody would be doing it. Having modded many cars over the years it has been my experience that extra HP is usually very expensive. (2) you most definitely don't want to be doing this on a daily driver. And (3) I take exception to your sneering remark about old men whether it is tongue in cheek or not.

    Cheers Pat.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    hi old lady errr hi old man err welcome young man
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    in the title bar
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    How come no emotorcon doing the ROTFL... actually ROL, Rolling Over Laughing :P

    -Dave
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    People are getting 25-35 wheel horsepower increases with just remaps on the Legacy GTs (from 195-205 to 225-230). What's that convert to at the crank? Also, unlike many performance mods, it improves drivability. More power down low and an even wider powerband versus stock. Also gets rid of the hesitation/stumbling issue people have been having, as well as the electronic throttle delay.

    In many ways, a LGT with a remap and a catless uppipe from the STi (good for decreasing the already low turbo lag and maybe a pinch of added power) is what the LGT should have been stock.

    -B
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I would categorize remaps under "heavy" modification.
    It is in my view a major component change as it changes everything what the car originally does.

    -Dave
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Older = wiser (OK, maybe wider, too), but, "Old age and treachery beat youth and skill every time"!

    Len
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,755
    A WRX cannot gain 40-60 HP without altering the boost

    just wanted to point out that he mentioned "reflash", which does modify the boost.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    just wanted to point out that he mentioned "reflash", which does modify the boost.
    I know. Most tuners offer a reflash / piggyback that remaps the boost but doesn't raise the peak. They also offer higher programming from there that does raise the max boost but you usually have to tweak something with the stock wastegate, boost control solenoid, etc.

    I do believe that stock turbocharged cars are mapped conservatively rich, but that's to make them survive when some yahoo tries to climb a steep hill at 50mph in 5th gear, or drives with 87 octane. Tuners can do useful things without even raising the max boost but, as I said, I still think this is risky and definitely puts you in a real bad spot for warranty claims.

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I believe they are - can anyone confirm if the L-GT gets the same pistons as the STi?

    -uice
  • fandcfandc Member Posts: 51
    Sorry for the delay. Mark now has pictures of the wingless STi available. If you contact him via the address on his web site

    http://www.mayhemracing.com/main.html

    he should be able to oblige. Don't know if he will compete in the Susquehannock Trail rally at Wellsboro in June, as that would be a way of meeting him and talking about it.

    Rob
  • jtangcojtangco Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know how I can outfit my 2005 impreza rs sedan with side spoilers (ground effects)? The dealers I've spoken to have no ideas? HELP.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    http://www.vishnutuning.com/legacy_v300.htm

    -Dennis
  • 95legacy95legacy Member Posts: 26
    I was reading through this discussion board in hopes of finding a few answers.

    Well, a lot of the stuff was interesting to read but, the bickering "old men" were a little odd. Maybe you guys should start a Reality TV Forum. I'm sure FOX would love it.

    Anyway, what are some mods that a novice can do for a '95 Legacy L (Stick)? I just want a little more pep. Stock stats say it has 135hp. I intend to get a K&N filter.

    Thanks,
    Colby
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That plus exhaust and maybe an underdrive pulley kit. The latter mostly helps it rev quicker, especially good to match revs on a down shift.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I modded the heck out of my old '99 Impreza RS and started with the simple stuff Juice mentioned. Honestly, the boxer growl is really neat and all with a sport muffler but you're simply not going to gain any significant power with any of that stuff.

    The noises might be worth it and make it a more enjoyable vehicle, but you won't get down the quarter mile hardly any faster.

    ~Colin
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    :confuse: Come on guys relax a bit. Like it or not, the demographic on this site is definately on the mature side - your humble narrator included. Do we even have a regular who is under 30? At least I have come to grips that this is where I belong, not Nabisco where I'll bet the average age is about half of ours here. :(

    As to the whole modification debate, it may be semantics, but I still disagree. The words as used were heavy modification. I simply don't associate that phrase with a modifiaction which a competant mechanic could install in a morning and with a component price tag of $1600.
    I'll agree that a reflash is significant, that it is potentially lethal to an engine if done wrong, that it would reasonably void your warranty. If you consider a tubrbo-back and reflash heavy then can you name an actual performance enhancement you consider as light or moderate?
    I think if you are honest then, that you are considering practically any power increase as heavy modification.

    Pat- I'm certain I have nowhere near your experience or knowledge under a hood, but there are plenty of "packages" out there which achieve 40-60 crank HP with only pipes and a reflash. That is fact, period. Whether or not it's a good idea is certainly open to discussion. Go over to Nabisco and you'll see that amongst the boys half my age, everybody is doing it, and enough guys are running these packages to confirm the claims aren't made up. That's why the WRX is so popular - it can achieve significant increases in it's power output with little invested time or $$.

    FWIW my WRX is bone stock.

    Nicholas
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's all relative. I think here you'll find that "light mods" usually means a replacement air filter - K&N or Amsoil. Maybe an intake, pre-MAF.

    A reflash, chip, or exhaust would be considered middle ground.

    Cams or pistons or turbo kits would be heavy mods.

    But who cares? It's just semantics.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    to mean anything that will do any of the following:

    a) potentially or absolutely void a portion of the new car warranty
    b) potentially cause reliability to drop
    c) potentially cause end-user friendless to drop

    Vishnu and others are good, yes, so let's give a best case scenario that items B&C are mitigated to reasonable amount. A is *not*. You can hope your dealer won't notice, you can remove the item(s) before any major service, or you can not care and pay out of pocket without complain when the time comes--

    But just because a lot of people do it, and power can be easily increased on a turbocharged car, does not mean it should be taken lightly.

    I wouldn't mess with a daily driver still under warranty. Even after the warranty expires, I would advise having a backup means of transportation.

    Light modifications: exhaust, air filter in the stock housing (NOT an intake on a stick), brake pads, brake lines, wheels, tires, any I/C/E gear (audio / video), and even suspension when using all the factory mounting locations without modification.

    FYI, I'm 29 and signed on to Nabisco in june 1999. I modded the bejezus out of my '99 Impreza RS and plenty of hotrods that proceeded it, so I am speaking from experience and not just some chicken-little fearmongering. There are younger WRX and lower trim Subaru owners, sure, but most STi and Legacy GT owners are my age or older.

    ~ColinL
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I would use the terms "difficult installation", "expert knowledge", "fabrication required" or perhaps "not end-user installable" to describe things that seem to be down the 'heavy' path Nicholas was trying to describe.

    You can seriously install a Vishnu piggyback in an hour or less, yet suspension is probably a 2-4 hour project with 2 competent mechanics and no airtools or a lift.

    ~c
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    (4) buy what you want in the first place, if you wanted 300HP buy it to begin with, then if anything breaks in the warranty period it is the car makers problem not yours.

    There it is in a nutshell. I've been trying to explain this to a friend of mine who is (sort of) chastizing me for getting an STi instead of getting a LGT and modding it. Like Colin, I've done my share of modding cars over the years, and I long ago came to the conclusion that the factory engineers have *far* more time, money, and energy at their disposal than I do. Their "mods" also come with a warranty :)

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Thanks very much for the reply! I'll poke around the site and see what I find.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • 95legacy95legacy Member Posts: 26
    What exactly does a "Reflash" consist of? What is the usual gain?

    Colby
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Here's some read from EcuTek

    -Dave
  • 95legacy95legacy Member Posts: 26
    Dave,
    Woah!! Good reading. So, performing a reflash is basically reprogramming the factory ECU or is that wrong?

    Could I get a new ECU for my "95 Legacy or is it too old?

    Colby
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    You could get a new ECU, but it'll probably be similar to that that is in your '95 Legacy.
    Unless the map format and or the terminal has been changed, it should work...
    shoot EcuTek a query :)

    -Dave
  • brascobrasco Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the reply, Juice. I'll check that thread out. I've also since found a specialty spring & suspension shop in my area that can have new coils made to replace the stock equipment. I'll post what they have to say once they've had a look.

    From what I've found out so far from an excellent source at Subaru Canada, the one danger in stiffening up the back end of the Outback may be creating a situation where the vehicle oscilates or rebounds over rough roads because of the different spring rates front and rear. The goal is finding just the right balance to accomplish the task without going too far.

    Brasco
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well just wanted to post up the mods to the 94 Legacy Turbo...

    Koni Sport Inserts
    HR Springs
    JVC MP3 Head Unit
    Uniden CB
    Wilson Lil-wil Magnetic Antenna
    20% Tint on sides and rear
    Scooby Sport UK Axle-back
    STi Short Shift Linkage
    STi Trans Mount
    RacingBrake WRX front Rotors
    RacingBrake 4-pot Calipers
    Hella Micro DE HID Driving Lights
    Hella Air Horns
    99 RS Wheels with Faulken Azenis 215-45-16 Tires

    Yet to be installed:
    STi V4 TMIC
    WRX TD04 Turbo
    MBC
    Apexi SAFCII
    VDO EGT, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Boost Gauges
    JIC Coilovers with Camber Plates
    STi Motor Mounts
    Poly Steering Rack Bushings
    Goodrich SS Lines
    Borla Divorced Wastegate DP
    Custom DP to Mid-pipe w/Highflow Cat
    Scooby Sport UK Mid-pipe

    That's about it for now. It's a great daily driver :) Also makes a good HPDE car :)

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    you're car isn't turbo, so a reflash isn't going to net you much. as the former owner of a N/A Legacy who spent a fair amount of money trying to make it faster, I say:

    forget it. It's just too expensive. A Catback exhaust is $800 and gets you maybe 5hp. Spend the money on some light to medium suspension mods and a good set of rims and tires. Going faster in the corners is more fun than going straight, anyway.

    AAaand while we're at it, I'm with Colin on this. How many FXT owners rushed to get the Accessport from Cobb, only to have it crash halfway through the install and leave the owners stranded and without cars for days? Turns out Cobb didn't bother to find out the FXT ran 2 different ECUs depending on build date. Owners with the unknown ECU had to remove it themselves and ship it to Cobb to be sorted out.

    Thanks anyway.

    Heck, look at what happened to me with what should have been an ultra-conservative "light" swaybar mod. Cost me $550 in STi lateral links, plus install. Not that I still wouldn't love to bolt up an STi suspension to the car (direct swap), but.... ;)

    So I think "light" power mods are a waste of money for the gains achieved. I'm still more open to suspension mods, but even then one must expect the unexpected sometimes.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup, and if you are faster in the turns, then you will be faster overall. Turns and braking are where you can gain significant speed, also spend money on doing HPDEs cause the knowledge you gain is the BEST mod you can do. It's 100% transferrable, and is way safer than building a fast car for the streets. Also it makes you a safer driver.

    -mike
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Racers say a top notch suspension is worth 50HP on the track.

    First mod is always tires IMHO.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I believe the WRX side skirts will fit right on. You can buy painted ones in certain colors as an accesory, or order the stock "matte black" skirts as a part.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I need recommendations for driving lights for my Outback XT. Want to have them in place for the next ski season, for drives through the WV mountains when I ski.

    I would wire up the lights with a relay to come on when the high beams are on -- basically to augment my long-range lighting in the presence of no other cars. Other cars are so rare out there, I run on high beams for 98% of the drive. It's dark in the mountains and the roads are pretty treacherous, so any added light will help a lot.

    It would be good to have something small I can tuck up under the bumper in the cooling intake. I want to leave the existing "fog" lights as-is, for the added short-range visibility when the low beams are on.

    Any suggestions?? I probably don't want to spend over $200 total.

    thanks,
    Craig
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    Craig,

    I'm partial to the Hella Micro DE as a compact unit. Maybe someday I'll break down and actually get driving lights.

    Jim
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Another vote for Micro DEs. I use the Micro DE HIDs that run about $700, but the non-HID versions are reasonable. They are about as compact as you are going to get. I had them in the airdam on my SVX and now put them onto my 94 Legacy.

    -mike
  • 95legacy95legacy Member Posts: 26
    Would a high flow intake be an insignificant source of HP as well?

    What are HPDE's?

    Colby
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    HPDE is High Performance Driving Event, IIRC (if I recall correctly)

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup HPDE is High Performance Driving Event or Experience.

    Basically you have 3 or 4 1/2hr sessions on a road course with an instructor and a few in-classroom sessions over the course of a day and learn to drive significantly faster than you can on the street :)

    -mike
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Would a high flow intake be an insignificant source of HP as well?

    In a word: yes.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup it would be pretty insignificant....

    -mike
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Nice site for modding a Forester. Geared toward a GT....but still a lot of useful info.

    http://microwise.com.au/sub/doco/modifyingagtforester.pdf
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just keep in mind they get a different engine, the EJ205T, while we get the EJ257.

    I basically have all the Stage I stuff on my '98 except my exhaust is stock.

    -juice
  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    Yup, I've got my Saturday morning project already lined up for me. Let's call it an slightly early 100k present (currently approaching 98k).

    My subwoofer package was delivered yesterday and from what I can tell it will be a pretty simple install. I have to admit that I was surprised at how small the box is (about 8x6x4), but then it does have to fit under the drivers seat and it would have to not interfere with any of the seat controls or duct work to the back seat foot area.

    Does anyone know of any tricks or lessons learned from performing this mod?

    I'll let y'all know how it turns out. I expect it should round out the sound quite nicely.

    Thanks,

    Alan
    98 OBW Ltd
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I can't think of any surprises.
    It's pretty straight forward, so, enjoy :)

    -Dave
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