Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Best Regards,
Shipo
But wouldn't it be obvious that viscosity of a 0W-40 and a 10W-30 have to cross? The OW means a lower viscoity than 5W at 0C, while the 40 means higher viscosity than 30 at 100C...so somewhere between 0 and 100C they would have to cross.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I've seen it as high as 108 F here in Memphis, but my Trooper thermostat lets the coolant go up to maybe 195-210...I forget what the setting is :-). As long as I don't have to idle in traffic, it seems happy at that. I do remember one time it got cold enough that my old Datsun Z with weak coolant had some issues with getting up to temp until I refreshed the coolant.
BTW, to add something worthwhile to the oil discussion, I had several scares this past fall of dropping oil pressure. At first I thought I was getting a little low, but not off the stick and would get drops down from the normal 80 psi indicated on my guage to maybe 20-30 psi range. I was running Valvoline 10-30 as per standard recommendation, usually change every 3-4K miles at Jiffy or VIOC. One note is that I was topping off with Phillips 10-30 synthetic blend (whatever they call it) instead of the Valvoline. I wonder if that has having some sort issue with mixing the 2 oils?
It almost seemed at times it would drop to lower than normal pressure for a few minutes, then I would almost feel a little surge and it would pop back up to normal...might have been feeling things. Thought I was in for a dead engine, oil pump, whatever.
I changed oil and filter going with Valvoline 10-40. About a week after that I took the Trooper on the annual golf trip to Destin area...500 miles hwy driving so it really got up to operating temp and stayed there for 6-8 hours each way. Since taking the trip and changing to 10-40 I have not had the pressure drop down nearly that low, idle looks to be at least 50 psi if my guage is accurate.
So, I really don't know what has happened, but it is looking better so far. Wondering if I was getting some sludging (combination of synthetic blend and dino oil perhaps) and the extended trip at temp helped clear it out? Just glad I did not have to resort to major surgery or replacement as I was seriously considering. In some ways I would like a new vehicle, but I guess I'm wondering why to turn loose of $20-35K if I don't need to. The wife has a newer vacation capable vehicle that fits our needs and the Trooper gets me around to work, golf, etc.
Anyway, I have felt the fear of dropping oil pressure and it is not fun.
Lucas.
Old wives tails.
For the record, he just got the car a week ago (2000 Avalon with 120k miles), and hasn't ever checked the oil. Nothing's coming out of the tailpipe, which leads me to believe that he's not burning anything he's not supposed to be. Also, he said that when he checked the dipstick before the whole adding oil fiasco, smoke (but probably steam, I imagine) was coming from the dipstick holder. Moreover, in the dark, the engine bay looks fine, but smaller cracks, if apparent, could easily have been missed.
Lucas.
Use Mobil 1 synthetic. There is no better protection out there.
(Audi...riding the wave the others have not caught yet.)
Ummm, no, that is completely incorrect. You an switch back and forth between conventional (Group II), wannabe synthetic (Group III), and true synthetic (Group IV) to your heart's content and never cause a any "seepage" at all.
Best Regards,
Shipo
In January, when the technician had tested the oil pressure, before changing oil, he found it to be just a bit low at idle and that it went up as soon as rpms increased.
Since the problem has worsened so quickly, he (my son) is now speculating that maybe the oil pump is the problem, after all.
The shop that checked his pressure before, indicated they will check it again, without an additional charge, to see what is going on now. The owner of the shop said the same sort of thing as you, that even if the pump is bad it may not pay to replace it if the low pressure has resulted in escessive wear.
At this point it's sounding very much like a pan-drop type of an operation regardless of what the problem is. My personal bet is either a clogged screen or the oil pump.
Keep us posted. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
It'd be my kid's wallet...but we did feel bad about this happening with his first car, that he has $3500 invested in so far, after 6 months of ownership. I felt particularly bad, since he relied, to some extent, on my vehicular judgement in selecting this car.
I did run across some interesting viscosity info, as I was researching the possibility of putting _W-50 in to see if that would help. It seems there is some variation in viscosity at engine operating temp, based on the figures that are reported at 100C.
Some examples:
Castrol Syntec 5W-50 is 17.4 cST @ 100C, while the 20W-50 is 19.7 cST
For Penzoil 5W-50 is 17.8 cST, while 15W-50 is 21.4
Then there was a Kendall blend that reports 19.6 cST for a 10W-50
Now I don't know if 4 cST would be considered a significant difference in viscosity, but it does represent nearly a 25% difference. I was surprised to see that much variation in oils that one would think had the same high temperature viscosity.
:P
Sensors should have a sensor to let you know if they are operating correctly.
Now have a guage on the car temporarily, but this time the shop did see the pressure near the second sensor (which they were previously not aware of) drop to 0 after car had warmed up. So we are being told this confirms the problem is engine wear as pressure drops only when car is fully warmed up and comes right back when increase revs.
The current oil is Mobil 1 10W-40, which has viscosity of 14.7 @ 100 C. The highest available viscosity I have found is a Pennzoil 15W-50, which is 21.4. Might this be enough of a difference to maintain oil pressure?
We do have it on the schedule at a tech college for a mid august to mid october class. If the engine last until then, he can get repairs done for the price of parts. If a higher viscosity oil (or some viscosity increasing additive) will not be enough to limp along until then, I am going to suggest that he just park the car for the next 5 months. The only other reasonable option would be to drive it until engine is shot and then have a used engine installed.
Sorry to hear that, sounds like you do have a problem. I guess thicker oil might help, but not much, and not permanently. I wouldn't trust it.
1) Oil flow is what lubricates engines, not oil pressure.
2) Engines suffering from this type of low oil pressure can run for great distances without failing.
3) I've found that by replacing the engine bearings (both rod and main), the oil pressure can be brought back up to normal levels.
4) With a little jockeying, most engines can be lifted just enough to allow removal of the oil pan. If this particular can be made to lose its pan, you can replace the bearings with the engine still in the car for relatively low cost (especially if you do the work yourself).
5) If you do decide to take a shot at doing this, an aid to help you determine whether you need oversized bearings is this: http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/
6) If you decide to run'er till she drops, BMW dealers sell a Castrol 10W-60 that is used in many of their "M" series cars. It ain't cheap, but it's plenty thick when warm.
7) IIRC, you mentioned that the engine itself seems to run well and doesn't use much oil. Before you embark upon engine surgery, you might want to have a cylinder leak down test performed to make sure everything else is operating well.
Please keep us posted.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The engine does seem to be running fine and uses no oil at all. What is a leak down test and what would that tell us? This may be something to have the tech school do, if it makes it up there.
My understanding is the Jetta oil pan can be removed quite easily, this would be the first step if it had been an oil pump problem...and that job would have cost $350-400. Just for "dropping the pan" we were quoted under $200.
When I searched for that BMW 10W-60, I also found it as Castrol...viscosity is 24.2 cP @ 100C. Apparently this runs about $10 per quart. I also ran across Shell Helix Racing Engine Oil in 10W-60 and 20W-60 with viscosity of 23 and 24.
Good news about the pan drop on the Jetta, that should make things pretty easy to get to the bearings. ;-)
Keep us posted. :shades:
Best Regards,
Shipo
Around 2000, Ford (and perhaps, Honda) changed the engine oil specification from 5W-30 to 5W-20 for many vehicles. This was done without any actual engine mechanical changes. The reason was to improve fuel economy...
Is this correct and if so does it mean that you would improve your engine's longevity by using 5W-30 even though the manufacturer specifies 5W-20?
Thanks for the trip down memory lane regarding http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/.
The last time I used that product was when I replaced the rod bearings on my 51 Plymouth just before graduating from HS in 62.
He was of the opinion that extended oil changes get rather risky over time, because as the oil nears the end of its supposed extended oil change cycle (let's say 10,000 miles), it returns to its "base stock"; so in effect if you are running 5W-30, at the end of your cycle you are really running 5W oil on cold starts. Not so good.
Any opinions about this?
Also he's used to dry sump engines with huge oil capacities, so maybe that has something to do with his concerns.
A few points:
1) I use Mobil 1 0W-40, and if your friend was to be believed, my oil would effectively be a 0W after my normal ~11,000 mile OCI.
2) Per my most recent 11,500 mile UOA result, the Mobil 1 0W-40 sample that I sent in came back with a comment saying "The viscosity measured in the correct range for a 0W-40..."
3) Unlike conventional oil, the full synthetic oil that is approved for use in Porsches (Mobil 1 0W-40 being one of the approved oils) doesn't use any viscosity improvers to enable the multi-grade rating. How can that be? Simple, the PAO base is so stable that it naturally exhibits multi-grade tendencies in that it doesn't thicken as much when extremely cold, nor does it thin as much when at operating temperature.
4) My bet is that your friend is telling you what he believes to be true, however, he has zero science to back up his beliefs.
Best Regards,
Shipo
My kid did some testing with the temporary oil pressure guage on and he found pressure was okay until the water temp got to within about 10-15 degrees of the normal fully warmed up temp. Based on this and some straight-line interpolation of viscosity numbers, it may be that a _W-50 (or _W-60) will be enough to keep the light off...or at least it will come on less often.
Also my thinking is if the pressure loss is that intermittent and infrequent (only at idle and only when engine is hot), it's likely the parts are still remaining pretty well lubricated, since the oil that is on the parts would not disappear the instant that pressure is lost.
Also the Porsche requires periodic services that seem to work against extended oil changes...more like "well as long as the car is up on the rack for its major service, why not?"
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think that it is important to point out that just because you have low oil pressure, that in no way means that you have low oil flow.
Question: Does your car have an oil filler hole that allows you to see part of the valve train?
If it does, what do you see when you open it up with the engine up to operating temperature and at idle? If you see oil splashing around, then I'm of a mind to say that you needn't worry, however, if it's dry up there, then discovering the source of your problem might be worth the effort, especially if the car spends a lot of time idling.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I just ran across the numbers for the "new" Castrol Syntec 20W-50; apparently at 100 C it has a cst of a whopping 19.7. You might want to try and get your hands on some of that stuff.
Best Regards,
Shipo