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The best advice; pick an oil (any oil) and a filter (any filter), try it for a while (say between 5,000 and 7,500 miles), and then send a sample off for Used Oil Analysis (UOA). What you get back WILL be relevant to what you're doing and what you're using.
Keep us posted.
Best regards,
Shipo
Synthetic oils
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just make sure you're within the manufacturer's oil change requirements if there's still a warrenty involved. And I'd be surprised if folks who regularly change their oil and filter, regardless of type, will have much to tell. Do that, you won't have problems.
And your filter advice puts Honda's recent 'change the oil without a filter' specification for some of the changes in question (makes no sense to me).
The advantages to using dino oil and changing at nominal 3000 mile intervals or slightly higher are that the contaminants are being removed from the motor regularly. A new oil filter is in place with fresh media and maximum flow based on oil viscosity through the filter matrix with a minimum bypassing at the valves.
The advantages of synthetic are a better consistency of the oil at cold and hot. It seems thinner on the dipstick so in cold weather here, it would flow slightly better in those first 10-15 seconds before internal passages are warmed.
I just finished my first synthetic run. 100,000 on my Buick and I switched to Pennzoil synthetic. Watched color and checked for particle load and decided to change at 7500. Sent sample for testing for first time ever. Still had 3.5 TBN which means the oil would go up to the 10,000 indicated oil change on the computer sensor which GM uses that seems to be very good at inferring oil life.
However, found that there was a low coolant contamination. Oil lab recommended using short oil change intervals, which would flush out the collected contaminant of coolant and start over. They said it was very early in the seepage which the newer 3800s may have. I found the seep was at the throttle body gasket rather than the lower gasket as expected. But the lower gasket was deteriorating. With my earlier short changes with dino oil at less than 4000 and nominal 3000 miles, that seep didn't add much to the oil load before it was changed out.
If I'd not run the synthetic, I wouldn't have done the oil test and found the coolant. I have had very little need to add coolant so I didn't suspect gasket leaks.
So my opinion depends on the characteristics of your motor and it's weaknesses. My opinion also varies with the owner's ability to sense and observe what's happening.
Myself, I feel very comfortable now running the synthetic to the oil life indicator's low point, maybe 10% left, and knowing the oil is still very strong with additives. My only concern is filter life, and I may just change filters in the middle of the 10000 mile oil change. I also probably will send another oil sample just for wear without the additive checking option.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
- Engine burned it, and went out the tailpipe (might see blacker tailpipe interior)
- It leaked out on the ground (crawl under vehicle to inspect)
- It leaked into the coolant (bad head gasket, check for oily residue in radiator)
- Somehow got pumped into transmission fluid
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No oil in the driveway. A few other MPV owners have also noted later mileage oil consumption, so a bit concerned. 5w20 is recommended in owners manual. I've been told 10w30 would be okay. But, I'll stick with the 5w20.
FWIW, I've been using 0W-30 in my Mazda (which also comes with a 5W-20 recommendation) since the first oil change and the two UOAs I've had done on the oil look stellar.
Best
Said another way, why anybody would use any oil that doesn't have a 0W rating is beyond me.
Best regards,
Shipo
After reading a bit more about my Mazda MPV's oil consumption, I'm thinking it may be the PCV valve. The 2004 MPV has the Ford 3.0 Duratec engine in it.
The inside of tailpipe is black, can't recall ever noticing before that though. Think it would be a good idea to go ahead and have it replaced? It's a pain to get to, I've read, but the part is only about $8. I had to put another half a quart in the other day. Maybe, I'll just keep a good eye on it the next several weeks/month to get a better idea how much is being burned.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The car is in the shop getting a new filter and oil and assuming it is not totally burned up what signs should I look for other that the usual banging of a bad main bearing. If it matters, he said the car did not overheat, in fact, the temp was normal when he pulled into the driveway.
The motor has 126,000 on it and I was hoping he could get at least another 20-30 K out of it before major trouble. Now I'm not sure.
Any opinions?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I wouldn't think you'd lose all your oil from the... oil filter blowhole, or whatever it's called. Wouldn't the filter need to be kept pressurized to have oil sent thru it? I guess I would just suggest to keep your fingers crossed., And raise your sons rent if the motor is ruined. Hopefully it's not.
Haven't heard from you in awhile oldfarmer, hope all is well. We've gotten 2 or 3 "actual" stories over in the "Stories from the Sales Frontline" discussion since you left 5 months ago. So, you haven't missed much.
As to what you and Shifty have said, the engine runs OK at low RPMs but now has a "clatter" above 4000. Sounds like a lifter noise rather than a main bearing noise. I'll talk to the mechanic tomorrow to see what he says.
The kid is out driving it around now. Hope I don't get a call later asking for a ride home.
BTW, this was HIS car ( I sold it to him about a year ago) so any loss is on him. Still, I was hoping that this would be the one car I've owned that went 200K before blowing up. Oh well, kids will always drive you nuts.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
On the other hand, with heavy oil, it could chug along for a while. It might also quiet down as it runs and all the parts get comfy together again.
Now on other types of engine failure, like over-revving with plenty of oil, this might not be the case, since the forces on the pistons and rods would be huge. Think of that heavy piston having to come to a DEAD STOP a gazillion times a minute and what force that must put on a rod!!
I've seen engines run 9-10 minutes with all the oil drained out (junkyard capers). Of course, they start to make noise sooner than that, but they don't seize for quite a while.
Motor died and the car went to it's great reward. Bad bearings.
Could we please have a moment of silence?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That would explain the blown gasket...
Is there anything I should be looking at or is this just another Caddy electrical gremlin?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
No, in fact it's was not even a Chrysler engine. The 2.5L V-6 was made by Mitsubishi and had 168hp. Wonderful motor which I hoped to get 200K out of.
The gasket on the filter blew because I stupidly was in too much of a hurry to check that the old gasket was removed before installing the new filter.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The box won't blow like newspapers, won't soak through, throws away more cleanly...it's just a very handy tool all around.
Hot thread here:
dmathews3, "2011 Chevy Equinox" #194, 23 Jun 2011 1:00 pm
Steve, visiting host
I have read most of the posts regarding "Synthetic Oil" and have found them very informative. Without starting a "war" between the various brands I would like to know what 'synthetic brands' the readers of this post use; why you like the brand; how long have you used your favorite brand and how often do you change your oil and filter.
Thanks for the feedback.
FWIW #1, once beyond the warranty period I send oil samples out two or three times for Used Oil Analysis (UOA); the results have always come back showing lower wear metals and contaminates than the "Universal Averages" (typically something between four and five thousand miles) in spite of the extra miles I drive.
FWIW #2, back in 2007 I was chasing down an elusive oil leak into the engine oil (discovered via UOA) and thinking it was a blown head gasket, I pulled the heads off when there was 143,625 on the clock of that particular car. I didn't find any issues with either head gasket (the problem turned out to be a ten-cent "O" ring elsewhere in the cooling system), but what I did find was that all six cylinder bores were still proudly displaying their factory honing marks. Not too shabby.
I have read about AmSoil, etc.... So which AMERICAN brands of "synthetic oil," sold here in the USA, are truly 100% synthetic? I always thought Castrol was made here in the USA.
Thanks for any feedback.
In order to choose the correct motor oil for "YOUR" car, you need to see if the manufacturer has a specific specification requirement. As discussed GM now requires dexos labeled oil, this specification greatly exceeds anything that meets the minimum requirements of the API and ILSAC. Ford has actually required their own specification since 2004, and Chrysler while normally not far from the API and ILSAC keeps incrementing it's requirements up just about each year. It's such a problem that late in 2010, the API and ILSAC adopted the "SN" and "GF5" ratings, and for a moment caught up to Chryslers specification, which then incremented up to MS6395 S in the spring of 2011, and again started to exceed the API and ILSAC.
Right here on this website you can find reports written by people who are trying to advise the readers about how to choose their engine oils, they actually fall for and repeat many of the myths. No where in their "story" did the explain the ACEA ratings, and they also failed to discuss the synthetic VS conventional designation. The facts are that both GM and Ford specifications can be achieved by properly blended conventional (group III) oils. The oil companies can also make products with additional benefits for the users by going to a blended group III, that adds some group IV, or V. They can also make a product that exceeds any of that by going with the European designation of a synthetic and using only a group IV, or V straight or blended product. The problem is they don't put that information on the bottle, so as a consumer you really don't know what is in there.
Look for Mr. Reeds story on choosing the right oil, then go to the comments and you'll see that only I have responded to him. It would take four hours to deliver the material about this subject to a class of experienced technicians, it would take me a week (or more) to type it all out here.
If you think all of this is getting confusing, try this. Some 5W30 oils are too thick to be used in a vehicle that calls for 5W30, and some 5W30 oils are too thin to be used in others. Learn the ACEA ratings, and you can see that a 5W30 that meets A1/B1 specifcation is thinner than a 5W30 that meets A3/B3 or A3/B4. The A1/B1 can be made with conventional oil, the A3/B3 and A3/B4 which are the European specifications normally cannot. The A5/B5 is again a thinner oil, but it is more likely to have at least more of the Group IV, or V blended to it, if not simply be the real deal as synthetics go.
That's all for the moment, what consumers need to realize is they often dictate to shops through price pressure what the shops get to use when servicing their car. If you showed up at my shop, and the correct price for your oil change is in the $90 range because I know the difference, who can picture how many posters would be screaming that I was ripping them off? Especially when they can go to a quick lube and get an oil change for a third of that price? That pressure rewards ignorance, and punishes education and committment to service the vehicles correctly. While I would use only the oil specified by the manufacturer, they will simply pump into your car what ever bulk oil meets the SAE grade only. Now again, imagine being treated as if learning the truth here, and being professional enough follow through the reccomendations to the letter is "dishonest". You'll find the references everywhere, especially in posts on this website, probably even elsewhere in this very thread.
A few comments regarding the above paragraph:
- As I understand it, there is no longer such a thing as a Group I oil.
- A "Semi-Synthetic" oil is a combination of Group II and Group III oils.
- Hydrocracked Group III synthetic oils have come a long way in the last few years and by many accounts, are as good as if not better than PAO based Group IV or Ester based Group V oils.
As an aside, I am partial to oils which meet VW's rather stringent 502.00 oil specification, and even though I no longer have a car in the family which requires such an oil (something which may change in the next couple of weeks), I continue using 502.00 oil.
The name semi-synthetic has to be one of the most misleading designations in the marketplace.
Ford does not require a synthetic oil to meet its specifications, that group III oil "Witha Little Extra Refining" easily meets the spec with a proper additive package. At the same time what people need to see is a 5W30 that meets Ford specs is an oil that is much thinner than an oil that meets VW's 5W30 spec. Ford will show you that at really cold temperatures the shearing forces inside the engine will tear the molecules of the oil apart, damaging it, and causing it to fail. (GM's requirements are similar for the same reason)
Meanwhile the camshaft and lifter desgin of the VW would result in wear and damage with an oil that is thin enough to meet the GM and Ford specs. Which BTW you won't have to spend too much time searching for validation, you will find reports of failures right on this website, but this is likely the first time you saw the explanation for those failures.
Did you know the 502 oil doesn't provide enough boundry layer protection for the PDI's? (2.5l R5 and and 5.0l 10cyl diesels) that's why they require the 505.1 oils. Even a 504/507 product fails to meet the requirements of an engine that calls for a 505.1. 504 by the way superceeds the 502 spec which is technically obsolete but still available, much the same way that GM 6094M, and GM 4718M, and LL-A-25 are all replaced by dexos.
The really bad part of all of this is the disinformation being spread around everywhere. The facts are, if the bottle of oil you have in your hand does not have the factory specification that your car requires written on the bottle, then it does not meet the specs for your car. That's doesn't mean that it's a bad product, it's just not the correct one for you. Claims like "meets the engine protection requirments of XXXXX" are as much an indication that the oil failed to meet many of the other requirements of that given specification oil and can be quite misleading.
Utter and complete nonsense. For our Chrysler minivans (which call for 5W-30) I've been running Mobil 1 0W-40 and have UOAs which span hundreds of thousands of miles which prove quite conclusively that this oil is perfect for the application.
For my Mazda3 (which calls for 5W-20) I run Castrol Syntec 0W-30 and while there are only have 50,000 miles on the clock, the two UOAs I've had run come back showing stellar results.
Group I is still manufactured all around the world. In fact in a recent column in "Lubes and Greases" magazine, there is starting to be a shortage of it due to demand, some refineries are closing down production and the building of new facilities is lagging behind. Group I basestocks are still used for many powersteering and transmission fluids.
Two comments:
- The discussion was engine oil, not ATF or Power Steering fluid.
- That said, off the top of my head I cannot think of even a single car sold in the U.S. for at least the last decade which used Group I based ATF or PS fluid.
At the same time what people need to see is a 5W30 that meets Ford specs is an oil that is much thinner than an oil that meets VW's 5W30 spec. Ford will show you that at really cold temperatures the shearing forces inside the engine will tear the molecules of the oil apart, damaging it, and causing it to fail. (GM's requirements are similar for the same reason)
I'm not sure where you've come up with this stuff; the fact is that VW 502.00 compliant 0W-30 is decidedly thinner when cold than the Ford spec 5W-30.
Did you know the 502 oil doesn't provide enough boundry layer protection for the PDI's? (2.5l R5 and and 5.0l 10cyl diesels) that's why they require the 505.1 oils.
I'm well aware of that fact, but I don't drive a PDI. Your point is?
504 by the way superceeds the 502 spec which is technically obsolete but still available, much the same way that GM 6094M, and GM 4718M, and LL-A-25 are all replaced by dexos.
While the low SAPS 504.00 standard is meant to replace 502.00 oils, field experience has shown that engines designed for 502.00 are often not happy with the newer oil. It seems quite likely that 502.00 will be around for a long time.