Japan has a much more restricted import market than the US. Companies wishing to import to Japan face high tarrifs and strict limits on the number of cars they can import. Honda has exported certain models from the US to Japan but only to meet demand over there.
If Honda sells 2000 Civics or Accords a month in US but only 50 Acura NSXs or RLs, do you think they'll set up a plant in US just to build the NSXs and RLs for the US market?
I really don't want another 10 years of mediocre air conditioning. I guess the replacement will have to be an Accord instead of a Civic. Now I have to decide whether paying the extra money for a 6 [which i don't particularly want] is necessary to make sure the air conditioning runs effectively.
I am probably going to buy a new Civic soon. Great crash results, very peppy and overall good buy I think. Anyways was wondering if some of you (with the newer Civics) can address these few things:
1. Cold start (hard start) not sure which is right: Has that problem been refined (fixed) yet in these cars? 2. ABS brakes: Do they eliminate the so-so ratings I keep hearing on the Civic's braking? 3. Any weird things going on (funny sounds, etc.)? 4. Anyone hear a "squeak" in ignition upon starting engine? 5. Road noise is it really that bad as I hear? 6. Road handling (winds, rain, etc) how do you rate? 7. Are any of the Civics still made in Japan? and if not why do some VIN#'s start w/ a "J" on the new Civics? (I've seen a few on dealer's lots)
Thanks so much for your help. Would love to see more about the newer Civics on this board.
Hello all. I have had my car for almost one month and wanted to know if anyone else has noticed that the civics with the 115hp engine are sluggish. I have a 2003 lx 4dr and it seems to be a little sluggish. It has 900 miles on it so I am not sure if it has not completely been broken in yet. I do get great gas milage (36 mpg I think).
If it's not sluggish, it's not a Civic. You need to keep revving to the redline until it blows up. But even you do, it's still sluggish. But don't worry, I'm also stuck with a 2001 civic.
Yeah. Really regret didn't take the test drive seriously but only relying on the "reputation" of it. But that's OK. I guess I'll keep abusing it until it has problems and sell it to the next sucker who buys it because they think Hondas are reliable and everybody drives one.
"Rev it til it blows up" but "Hondas are reliable" hmmmm. Just when does it blow up? And if it actually does blow up, how DID Honda get such a reputation for reliability?
If it weren't for Edmunds you know this kind of stuff wouldn't get into the mainstream.
I'm just teasing that it'll blow up. It has the rev limiter. And, did I say that Hondas are reliable? No. I did not. I only heard that they are reliable. This is my first and last Honda so I'll let you know if it's reliable or not when I'm done with it. And yeah, they are so reliable that there are no Honda Problems & Solution boards here.
We have a 02 Civic EX since April 02. 1. No problem starting 2. Brake works great havent been in emergency situation yet 3. No weird things 4. No 5. Car is not as quiet as our 01 Odyssey or 97 Avalon, but its ok. 6. Road handling great. It was soo great wife got too used to it so when she drives Odyssey she scraped the Odyssey. 7. Yes! Our Civic is made in Japan VIN starts with a "J"
Hey folks, actually I am not trying to complain. I like this car and think that it is built well. I was just wondering if what I am experiencing is normal or not. I had a civic ex 2000 model a few years ago and that had a 130hp engine vs the 115hp engine I have in this lx. I am not sure how much of a difference the 15hp makes. If this is a inherit quality of a 2003 civic lx, than I am fine. If it is not, I need to take it to the dealership. So I am not setting unrealistic expectations. I just want to see what others have seen.
1.6 liter (a "small" 4 banger) mated with 5 speed manual is plenty fast enough for me, thats whats in my Civic hatch and it has no problem with several people & or a hatch full of stuff, with the A/C on, no 3rd gear scratches (or 2nd for that matter) but its nice having reliable transportation that doesn't help Al Qaeda too much ... Hey Mazda maybe you could have a couple people at a dealership (or wherever) drive yours and see if it feels about right. Rob in Houston
Maybe you should test drive an identical Civic and see if it has the same power.
You say you are going to keep abusing your Honda till it has problems. So if a problem does come up because of your abuse are you going to blaim yourself (which is where the blame would lie) or are you going to blame Honda?
"Maybe you should test drive an identical Civic and see if it has the same power."
Thank you for your suggestion. But why? Different Civics will have BIG differences in performance?? Then I won't consider that good quality control. Or you are trying to say that all of them are slow and it's normal? Well, I'm pretty sure they are. And Honda should advertise 127hp@6500rpm, 27hp and 0 torque @ 3000 rpm. (I hope the real figures are higher @3000rpm. But you get my point.)
"because of your abuse are you going to blaim yourself (which is where the blame would lie)"
Sounds like you work for car dealers and car manufacturers. Always blaming the customers. OK. When I say abuse, I mean revving the car to redline, or close to redline before I shift. Actually, I don't even consider that as abuse because according to Honda, max hp and max torque comes out at somewhere close to redline. And when ppl buy their cars based on the specs, Honda better make sure their cars can last if ppl keep revving it to redline for the power & torque they advertised. And if the car has problems because ppl shift at max hp/torque rpm, then who do you think will be the one to blame.
BTW, what else can I do to abuse? Any suggestions? Drive it over potholes and curbs? If the car falls apart because of driving over too many potholes, then I think it's more of a safety issue. Who to blame? The driver? Why not the manufacturer? Shouldn't they make sure the car is safe before offering it to the public?
Oh, I'm thinking of changing engine oil every 10K miles according to the manual. Or maybe not.
I guess before my purchase, too many ppl told me that the Civic is good. They look good, they are fast, reliable, good suspension, VTEC, blah blah blah. Yeah right. These ppl don't even know what VTEC is. But it's a shame on me too cuz I listened to them. Too bad. Need to stick with it for another 2-3 years. I learned my lesson.
Well I already know that a Civic LX isn't the fastest car out there nor is it intended to be. It's purpose is to be a safe (which it is) reliable (which it is) and economical (which it is) car that will get you to work everyday or wherever else you wanna go. It's not marketed as a sports car nor is it marketed as a fast car. The 12HP extra the EX has does make a difference over the LX in performance. But even the EX is not marketed as a sporty car .. that's the SI's job.
Why should the manufacturer take the blame if something goes wrong as a result of it's owner's abuse? If you purposefully hit every pothole you see and mess up your alignment that is not Honda's problem. If in your haste to redline the car every time you shift you grab the wrong gear or even grind a gear to the point it messes your transmission up then it is your fault, not Hondas. If you don't change your oil when they recommend it and eventually sludge builds up in your engine .. that's your fault, not Hondas, because they tell you when to change the oil specific to your driving conditions.
If you bought a car based off of what other people told you then you have nobody to blame but yourself if you don't like the car. That's what a test drive is for.
After reading your posts, I think you really work for Honda.
"It's purpose is to be a safe (which it is) reliable (which it is) and economical (which it is) car"
Safe -- see if it's safer in a Civic if you were hit by an 18-wheeler. Reliable -- how many hondas have you owned before? Are you reading the Civic Problems Board? Economical -- I agree. Not arguing about this.
"But even the EX is not marketed as a sporty car"
Well, go to American Honda's website and see what it says. Here's the exact quote, "Every family needs an overachiever, and the EX Coupe is the Civic's top standout. With a high-performance 1.7-liter, 127-hp VTEC® engine and 15-inch wheels and tires, the Civic EX Coupe is near the top of its class." What is mean by HIGH-PERFORMANCE?? Go further down, another quote says "It's hard to believe that the Civic DX Coupe can get more sporty, but it can and it did." Even the DX is marketed as SPORTY.
Based on your other comments on potholes, you were saying if the road is full of potholes or uneven, I shouldn't drive the Civic over it? OK. Then why bother buying a car. All the roads in the US are not flat and have potholes. So I can go nowhere? And shifting at redline will make you grab the wrong gear, while shifting at 3000rpm won't? Where's that logic coming from. Maybe that's only you. And if what you say is true, Honda should advertise that in their brochures. It should say "Max power comes out @6500 rpm but shifting at that speed will grind your gear. We are not responsible for that and it's your fault."
I agree tho, that in order for ppl to shut up, I need to do maintenance according to the manual.
And please stop saying test drive test drive test drive. Can you take the car out for a day, and testdrive it on those routes that you use to drive. I know I'm one to be blamed because I listened to all those suckers that told me Hondas are good. But you think all those ads & reputations that boast the performance should get away?
Finally, I don't care if you love your Honda. This is the Problems Board for ppl to ask questions and complains. If you want to preach your passion in Hondas, go start a Honda Lovers board.
Safe: Let's see how any car in the Civic's class would look if it were hit by an eighteen-wheeler. Have you been in an accident with your Civic? Well I have .. the first SI I bought was totalled within 3 weeks after I bought it and if it wasn't safe I definitely wouldn't have bought another one. The Civic gets 5 stars in crash test ratings and is one of the highest scoring cars available right now.
Reliable: We've actually owned 15 Hondas (16 if you count the one my boyfriend bought for his mother) and out of the 15, 9 of them have had over 100,000 miles. Worst problem (actually it's maintenance related) we've ever had is having to pay mega $$$ to get the rotors changed on 90-93 Accords because they are attached to the hub. Other than that it's been Syntec oil changes every 7,000 miles and the occasional timing belt or CV axle.
Sporty is a relative term and the way Honda uses sporty isn't saying that it's a sports car or even SI/GTI/SVT material. Compared to a stripped down version of any other economy car the DX Coupe probably is sporty. Drive a base CE Corolla or a base Focus and see which is the sportier car. As far as the sedan goes Honda stresses it's safety performance and everyday practicality. And compared to the 115HP LX engine the EX engine is high performance and can post comparable numbers to cars with 10-15 more HP.
I never said that you won't hit potholes on occasion. What I said is that if you purposefully run your car into every pothole you see and eventually it knocks your alignment off .. that's your fault. And under normal circumstances the occasional gear grind won't ruin your transmission but if you do it every time eventually there will be consequences. And no, it's not Honda's fault if you don't know how to drive. And if you shift at 3000 RPM and grab the wrong gear you won't over-rev your engine on a 3-2 shift .. but if you are at 7000 RPM in 3rd gear and you take 2nd instead of 4th that will happen.
I know that during a test drive I can tell whether or not I will like the car and whether the power is an issue. I have never let what someone told me about a car influence my decision. I buy what I like and make sure I like it before I buy it. And if something comes along that I like better .. I buy it as long as the deal is right but I make sure I like that car before I buy it too. Good part about this is that even if I want another car I'm never in a car that I absolutely hate therefore I am never forced to take whatever is available to get me out of the car I'm in so therefore I never hate my cars or feel like I could've gotten a better deal.
I never said that people shouldn't post their problems. It just seems that a few of the more recent "problems" have been related to preference rather than an actual problem with the car. I simply said that mazda should drive another Civic LX to see if his car did have a problem. Then you started some long diatribe and here we are.
Safe: Did you read the NHTSA website about the crash tests. The frontal crash test is done by hitting the car to that fixed barrier of similar weight. I agree that you can walk away by hitting another car in the same class. But see if you can walk away by hitting a bigger & heavier car. And how did they come out with the ratings? By just crashing one car and come out with the conclusion? What about the seat position, weight, and size of the ppl in the cars? Will they be the same as the dummy? Will a 5 ft. tall person have the same kind of injury as a 6ft.tall person?
Reliable: Why don’t you check the number Recalls and TBSs for the Civic using Edmunds Maintenance Guide. Although some are nonsense, it’s still a lot. Maybe some more serious TBSs are not released? Hope not.
Potholes: IF the alignment will be off after 20 potholes, does it matter whether I intentionally hit them or not? The final result is the same, alignment off after 20 potholes. Oh, did I mention that my car has been in twice for alignment in the first 8 months. It’s out of warranty now so I don’t bother to take it in again. I was still OK with the car at that some so it has NOT been purposefully over any potholes or curbs both before & after the service. Even now, I still tried to avoid potholes cuz I couldn’t stand the bumpy ride.
Shifting: Is there a rev limiter? It won’t work when downshifting? Wow that’s great news. But how many times have you mis-shifted before. Throughout the years of driving a stick, I don’t remember mis-shifting from 3 to 2 unintentionally. Don’t you know it’s different to shift from a 3 to 2 because you have to pull it to neutral, then to the left and down to 2. It’s not like shifting from 3 to 4 or 1 to 2, which you pretty much just pull it all the way down. But I believe some ppl are different cuz they don’t know how to drive, especially those that worry too much about mis-shifting. I agree that if I mis-shifted and the engine blows up, it’s my fault. But what if I have NOT mis-shifted and there are problems. Will it still be my fault? I bet you the answer is still a yes from the manufacturer and its fans. Oh well, I guess I should stop complaining.
It makes no point. Safety. We have a standard. It's the only one we have. So we have to rely on it to tell us which cars are safe. Using this standard it has shown the Civic to be one of the most reliable small cars in the market. We are in the Civic forum. If you think there is another car that is more safe then maybe you should buy it. And you might even mention it here. Sure there are variables in any equation. But arguing the unknown is ignorant if you don't have data to support yourself. It's all hypothesis. The only constant is that the people who do this for a living say the Civic is safe. Reliable: All data says the Civic is just as if not more reliable than nearly any other small car. Sure there are TSB's and a couple of non reliability related recalls but overall what car is better? If you like that car buy it. If you don't what's the argument. The only car that comes close is the Protege. Pothole: Not even worth mentioning since potholes are to avoided and alignment getting knocked out isn't a reliability issue nor is it covered under warranty since it's maintenance. You can run through all the potholes you want. It's your car and your money. Shifting:The rev limiter can't stop the momentum of the car from over-revving the engine. If you are going too fast for 2nd gear the momentum of the car will destroy your engine if you mis-shift. If you don't mis-shift you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure Hondas reputation for reliability is based on the fact that most people don't mis-shift. And in that, Honda engines run a long time.
I guess we're not arguing. Just a friendly debate. But when you read the Civic SI/SIR board, when somebody posted the oil burning issue, anony immediately said the driver should treat the car better during break-in. But what makes you think the driver didn't? To me, it just sounds like the customers are always being blamed for and all honda's cars are perfect.
Besides, I didn't bring up safety, reliability, and mis-shifting. Everyone has their own standards. What I said from the beginning is shifting at redline and see if the car will have any problems. But somebody assumed, which means without any data to support, that if the car has problems, it MUST be the driver's fault because they don't know how to drive. Regarding alignments, they're not reliaibility issue? That's why alignments only have 12,000 miles/12 months warranty? I see. But I thought the alignment is part of the car. What about the car keeps pulling to the right after servicing twice? Is that reliability issue?
Are a part of maintenance. You will have a big problem getting your alignment covered after you have been over..sayy...6000 miles. Just like brakes. If you warp your rotors after a certain length of time it's gonna be up to you to prove the it's quality of the rotors and not something you did. Like wash the car after a hard drive.
Look I'm really not gonna get into it since there is really nothing to discuss here. Everyone does not have their own standards. There are only 2 sources of crash test data in the US. The Civic did as well as if not better than any other small car. You got others I'd like to see em. If you miss a shift at redline and go into a lower gear you'll toast your engine. No rev limiter will help you. And the dealer will say it's your fault the pushrod is stuck through the hood. If the car is pulling to the side from the moment you drive it off the lot there is an alignment issue. If it starts 6 months after you buy the car it's gonna be up to you to prove you didn't practice a WRC rally move into a ditch. It's that simple.
Am going to purchase a Civic in near future and am wondering if:
1. Are you happy w/ your Civic? 2. Does the vin# start w/ J, 1 or 2? 3. How has service been at Honda dealership 4. What maintenance/ repair have you had to do to your Civic? Amount you paid? 5. Any problems/troubles you are having? (hard start, erratic gas gauge, etc.)
1. yes 2. My VIN starts with a S .. the Si is built in England .. other Civic starts with a 1 3. Haven't had to take either in for service at the dealer yet .. but the times I have been to a Honda dealer with other cars haven't been that bad. 4. Oil changes are about it .. we use Syntec oil and it's $45 using a Mobil 1 filter .. haven't had any repairs yet except a windshield on the 02 SI 5. No problems to report .. both are running strong without a glitch as have all of the other Honda/Acura products we've owned.
Strange alignments came up, my last vehicle (a Nissan) pulled to one side from day one, I took it to a couple Nissan dealers that swore it was dead on as soon as the warranty expired they (and others) started talking about a frame bender, it (my Nissan) was very good (except for this alignment issue) I quit buying new tires for the right front wheel cause it ate them (never used frame bender) anyway my current Civic HB was assambled in Canada, all Honda dealer service to this point (just paid $ 330.00 for the 30K maintance) dealer okay Honda good mine goes straight down the road and zero problems so far (at the 30K mark). I've missed a couple shifts, good thing wasn't red lining it (no tach in 00 hatchbacks, not even an option) Rob in Houston
1. Are you happy w/ your Civic? Yes, I have a 2002 Civic SI. I appreciate that it is very smooth, solid with a firm ride, and decent handling. It runs on regular gas and I get 28+ MPG in mostly highway but pretty agressive driving, like 80+.
Its front suspension seems very sensitive. More than just a "road-feel" issue, if you get my drift. Read on to hear about my experience.
2. Does the vin# start w/ J, 1 or 2? Oops. I typically can't send email from outdoors ;-) I think they are all made in England (the SI) so that should answer it.
3. How has service been at Honda dealership They have been very polite, but .... they haven't been accurate with me, they performed a service but replaced my tires with a different brand at a lower speed rating, without asking me nor informing me. They didnt clean up the tires/wheels when the changed them. This may be good service ;-), but I don't think so. They haven't asked me about my service experience either. I can say the service department seemed to work very hard and were polite to everyone there while I waited for my car.
4. What maintenance/ repair have you had to do to your Civic? Amount you paid? Had all 4 tires replaced on a brand new SI after the dealer simply couldn't get the car to run smoothly.
One tire had to have failed their tests since they wrote fail on it, although they claimed they couldn't figure out what was wrong. They asked me to accept the car and drive it for a few hundred miles to see if it got better. (Funny, this was after they had "failed" a tire through some exhaustive attempts to balance them).
They later replaced ALL tires (Michellin Pilot MXV4) with a different model (H-rated Michellin Energy MXV4) but I didn't figure this out until say a while later. Could be trying to cover up a little suspension issue, but I haven't had the time nor inclination to make them change ALL 4 TIRES AGAIN back to the type that the car came with.
The car runs much more smoothly, although at a few speeds you can feel slight wiggling especially if you have one hand on the wheel. Gripping it with two hands makes the problem feel like it goes away mostly. Running faster, like up at 80+, the thing smooths out.
Its a pretty minimal vibration although somewhat disconcerting, hopefully its not going to become very pronounced if I put on some performance wheels/tires this summer.
5. Any problems/troubles you are having? (hard start, erratic gas gauge, etc.)
When gas is low, the car has to turn over a number of times to start it.
Wind noise is pronounced.
Road noise is pronounced.
Vibration due to high "bass" levels in music from left rear of car. I haven't tried to figure this one out yet.
Vibration from the front roof above the front right visor. (The SI has a moonroof). The visor contacting the roof exacerbates the vibration.
Thanks to all!
I should say in summary, that I got the 2002 Civic SI under 16000 including delivery. (Not including taxes). I think its a very nice car even with its minor irritants at that price point and that I very much enjoy driving it. It is very peppy and performance feeling and for the price I think it is a great competitor to a 2002 Focus SVT which probably sells even cheaper right now.
Consumed a quart in the first 1000 miles. I absolutely follow the break in reccomendations for you honda fanatics out there. For the rest of you I appreciate you sharing your experiences if only to hear another point of view.
Very happy so far. At 2000 km, added 3/4 of a liter of oil. Tire vibration from the Michelin MXV4 tires is pretty much gone. Fuel economy is a tad low right now. Expect it will improve. It is noisier than my 2001 LX 2dr.
fun factor.. 2001 LX.....5 2002 Sir....10
P.S. thanks for the info from prior posts about the MXV4's.
I have used 1 qt in 6,000 miles .. that qt was consumed after 2 back-to-back trips of 1,100 miles a piece and both within the first month of ownership. Since then I have not used any significant amount of oil and the car has been rattle and problem free.
I do wish that the steering was a little more settled (ala my 99-00 Civic SI) but it is still a good enough highway car and is not a pain to drive at high speeds for 8 hours + at a time.
Hi. I have to say I loved my '98 Civic Hatchback, but I am not happy with my '02 Civic LX Sedan at all! I had a baby so I needed a 4-door. I bought it last April. The first problem I found was that the car downshifts heavily when coasting down a hill while riding the brake a little. It totally freaked my husband and I out the first few times it did that. I am told by a mechanic friend it's some sort of tranny/solenoid issue that needs to be fixed. The next thing is my car wouldn't start. This happened about 6 times so far and I had plenty of gas. The dealership told me it could happen from driving and shutting off and then starting soon after, but it wasn't that either. Then, the rubber seal above my windshield is buckling. It's all wavy and looks terrible. Then just yesterday, we had a small snow storm. I forgot to put my car in the garage, and I'm glad because now I know I have a leak. We were leaving for church and I come out to find a puddle on the passenger-side carpet the size of my head! It was dribbling from the engine wall or something. There are also a few things that could be designed better. Like the knobs for the temperature, air direct, etc. From the driver's side, you cannot see the little icons that show the arrows of where the air will flow because the icons are away from the driver and the knobs hide them. Example: I cannot see the arrow pointing to the feet. And I am a 5'7" tall female. Also, the radio is too hard to reach. It would be better to place the knobs mentioned above under or above the radio. I think that's how my other Civic was. Also, the notch for the visors is on the opposite side of the side I try to grab. I am right-handed. It would be nice to have a notch on both sides so I could pull the visor down more easily. The outer mirrors are weird too. They sit at an odd angle, like they're not parallel to the road. IN order to use the mirrors, my 6'3" husband has to angle them and they max out, so to speak, so he can see okay but not any farther than that. The last thing I want to mention is that I constantly get pulled over by the police in this car for no reason, or a very lame reason. I usually have my 6-month old in the back and I'm a good driver. I think I've been stopped about 6 times and never got a ticket. They just think I'm a kid or something. My car is black so that probably doesn't help. Once I was stopped by 2 cops and they were shining their lights in the car only to find myself, my husband and my son who was 8 weeks old at the time coming home from a family friend's house! They were very apologetic as you can imagine! So, that's my feeling about my car. There are things I like but the problems spoil it, and I'm really not sure I'll trust Honda again. I never thought I'd get such a bad car. Like I said I loved my '98. Thanks for listening. Any suggestions? Will Honda listen to my plight? I'm getting nowhere with the service dept. I have only had this car 7 months and bought it new. Christine
Thanks for your reply on my survey. I am "iffy" at this point as to whether I want to buy a Civic or not. Read good things but seem to be reading more bad.
Please would love to hear more positive stuff about the newer Civics?
Anyone else have something to share? The Good, Bad and the Ugly..
I have an '02 EX 4dr and it's interesting to see how there seems to be a love-hate relationship with the new Civic... I personally am happy with my decision to purchase the EX last December. I was looking for an economical, "safe" (alright, so you won't win in an accident with a Mack truck, but what car would?) car that I would enjoy driving...
Some thoughts:
+ Maintenance has been fine, been doing it all at the dealer, so far in 10k+ miles, only has needed scheduled maintenance (I'm following the severe conditions schedule).
+ Two problems initially: The alignment was very slightly off-center (no pulling, just straight ahead was a bit skewed) when I first took delivery of the car, which was realigned under warranty. And in the cold weather, the A-pillars rattle, which I solved by stuffing some packing material between the plastic cover and the windshield.
+ The car handles well, is much more tossable than a 2000 Accord I have driven extensively and understeers near the limit. (But watch out, the OEM tires lose a lot of traction on wet surfaces.) Steering feel is communicative and best-in-class IMHO, though some enthusiasts might find it a bit heavy. The suspension is a bit harsh and does not absorb bumps as well as the Accord, likely a factor of the short wheelbase and the handling 'bias'.
+ Not too much power in the engine, but it gets you where you need to go. In the EX VTEC, the best power comes on between 4-6k, but I usually drive between 1500 and 3000rpm to save gas. As it has been noted before, though, it's not a fast car-- low end torque in this light car feels weaker than the 150hp 4 cylinder in the Accord.
+ The length of the car makes it easy to park, but it's hard to see the end of the car out the back window. Once you get used to it, it's not too bad-- I am usually farther from cars than I think.
+ I actually like the control placement, with the three dial knobs closest to the driver and the radio along the same plane. All the A/C and radio controls are at the same level as my hands when I'm driving, and I don't have to look down to find them.
+ I get approximately 32-36 miles per gallon on 65% highway, 35% city driving. As high as 39, as low as 29 (below 30 just once). I usually go about 350-400 miles on a little more than 10 gallons between fill-ups.
+ The paint is pretty thin, I scratched it by putting my laundry basket on the trunk! I'm more concerned about vehicle operation and efficiency, but this was pretty annoying.
+ I carry people around a lot, and the rear seat is acceptable. People say they like the humpless middle seat, but I never ride back there, so I wouldn't know.
Before I bought my car, I was considering the Protege, Civic, and Elantra (new Corolla hadn't come out yet). I was planning on getting a Protege, but after driving both it and the Civic, I felt that the Civic cockpit was more roomy, I liked the fit and finish of its interior, and the Civic has an advantage in fuel economy and steering feel. I didn't like the vibrations coming through the wheel of the Protege, or its tiny sunroof. Supposedly the Protege is better handling-wise, but I didn't drive either car hard enough to distinguish a difference, and the Protege does ride a little better. The Elantra I drove, and it's not too bad, but I liked the overall feel of the Civic. It was hard to get over the low price of the Elantra, though...
IMHO, in this class, I'd think if money was top priority, go with the Elantra... Corolla and Civic are nice overall packages, the former being more comfortable and the latter being more driver-friendly. The Protege is, according to C&D and others, the most driver-friendly car if you really want a good handling car. None of these cars are fast, though... The fastest cars in this segment would probably be the Mazdaspeed Protege or the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, which are a couple $K more. Or heck, splurge for the Impreza WRX for a real thrill.
I'd look very closely at the Hyundai too if I were in the market for a small car to drive around for a few years. The P5's are going for pretty cheap too nowadays with this being the end of the run for the current Protege.
Very informative. Thanks. BTW If you care about the performance and fun factor, but not the resale value the Focus SVT definately deserves at least a test drive. And the price is right too.
No, I haven't done a thing. I don't speed, I am a good driver. I am a 32 year old mom with a 6 month old baby. The only thing is my car is black. But my other Honda - the '98 Hatchback was also black and I had no problems. I know it sounds silly, but that's what I have been experiencing! Christine
first of all, thanks for the reply about slow starting ignition. I DO have to leave the key in the ON position for 5 sec, then ACC. Starts fine after that. (design flaw, IMHO.)
now, a new problem (I guess I just love to b**** . For two weeks in a row, I've noticed I'm only getting ~29 mpg. pretty bad considering advertising claims of 31city/38hwy.
some background data: 1. yes, I do check the PSI of the tires. constant 30-31psi per tire. 2. I live in Boston. Weather has been in the low 30's recently. 3. these past two weeks have been 65%/35% highway/city. very little stop and go. 4. I've changed my oil no more than 2 months ago. 5. I typically use the radio and heater while driving (5AM drives to work are starting to hurt =( 6. I follow the flow of the traffic on highways = 70-80mph. I never come close to red-lining on accelerations (most I've gone accel to is 3500rpm, usually i drive around 2000rpm) 7. my car is relatively light. just myself (160lb), a box of donuts, a few dress shirts in the back seats, and some jumper cables,etc in the trunk...hmm..that's it
what i meant to say was, I've always had a suspicion of low gas mileage since I bought the car in April. But I've only started calculating the actual mileage two weeks ago.
I always assumed it was mostly due to stop and go traffic in the city. Once, I think I found the gas mileage (mpg) to be disturbingly low 20's.
It's a silly question, I know, but sometimes people don't realize that it is "difficult" to determine MPG based on most people's filling habits, which include pumping a little extra past the cutoff-- pumping past the cutoff can add enough gas to disrupt MPG calculations by 1-3 MPG because adding even a quarter of a gallon of gas past the cutoff would add 10 miles or so. For example, if you run 300 miles and then put 10 gallons in to the cutoff, you'd calculate 30 mpg, but if you put in 10.25 gallons (past cutoff), you'd get 29.3 mpg... 10.5 gallons becomes 28.6...
So when calculating MPG, you want to try to normalize for things such as differences in gasoline, amount you put in, gas expansion, etc. So you might want to try to use the same gas station, filling up at the same time of day after driving a fixed amount (say, filling up at the same gas station on the way to work), and filling only up to the automatic cutoff. And then doing this 3-5 times and averaging the result. Obviously, you won't be able to account for every factor, but this should give you a better picture of your gas mileage....
So if you're doing that, and you still get crappy mileage... try driving at the speed limit for a tank or two and see if that improves your mileage, or taking off from a stop slowly (not letting the engine rev above, say, 3500 rpm). I found that there's a big difference between driving at 60mph and driving at 80mph, and a big difference when I'd rev the engine to 5000 rpm from stops and when I'd rev to 3000 rpm... the difference was about 5-7 mpg...
I recently purchased a 2003 Civic EX 5sp sedan. I'm starting to have regrets. Before you buy this car, take it out on the highway and get it up to 70 mph or so. It is not a quiet or relaxing highway cruiser. A very buzzy motor making lots of noise (3500rpm @ 70mph) & a vibration I can feel through the floor. This car is not for highway trips. Starting to think I should have bought the Sentra SER or just have spent the extra bucks and gotten the Accord or Altima. It would have been worth it.
I'm the proud driver of a 2001 EX Coupe 5 speed with about 65K miles since I bought it new July 2001. As you notice by the mileage, it is driven a lot, daily commute is 90 miles each direction, all Interstate. I cruise at 76 MPH for 70% of the drive, 70 MPH for the remainder which is a construction zone. I live in Georgia, drive to South Carolina everyday. The car has been dealer maintained at the severe intervals, other than that no other work on the car and no modifications. I got rid of the Firestones at 6000 miles and have been riding on Michelin X radial Plus since that time. Mileage. I end up filling up every two days. At one point I thought that I could tell variances in mileage between different brands of gas but, my recent observations are that automatic cutoff on fuel pumps are not consistent from pump to pump. I allow the nozzle to automatically cut-off while I clean the windshield and then manually fill it until it cuts off again. I usually find this only adds a few tenths of a gallon more to the tank, but have had one nozzle that overflowed onto the ground as I was manually topping the tank. Here are some recent numbers that would tend to indicate that you must take a longer term view at MPG. Easy for me since I drive the same everyday, probably harder for most others. 4.362 gal 49.17mpg $1.33 7.987 28.83 $1.33 10.474 38.36 $1.34 10.871 37.46 $1.30 10.306 35.58 $1.33 5.976 35.07 $1.3 11.163 37.41 $1.30 9.936 35.74 $1.30 4.259 36.08 $1.28 11.577 34.95 $1.28 10.281 35.71 $1.27 These are all consecutive fillups and as you can tell some variance exists. What led me to think about different pumps being the main variable are the first two entries, obviously on the first one the tank wasn't filled and on the second one it was. If you average these two together, it gets back in the ballpark at 39mpg. The mileage on the first entry was 214.5 miles meaning that the pump left the tank about 1.2 gallons short based on an average of 39mpg. This is extreme, but I've seen it to a lesser extent in the past when filling the tank from a half empty state. The long term average is 36.76mpg on these figures which I consider to be pretty good considering the speed at which I drive. Of course as has been mentioned there are a lot of other variables such as shift points (between 3500 and 4000 rpm for me), tire pressure, etc. that might affect these numbers. Other thoughts, it is an economy car. I haven't driven the competition in this price range so can't speak about their wind and road noise. I can compare to my parents Crown Victoria which I drove last weekend. Wind noise in the Civic is less and road noise is more. I think road noise is a Honda issue, a coworker has an Accord EX V6 which also has noticeable road noise. Not an issue with me, I normally ride alone, radio on, sunroof cracked open. Even when I am driving with someone else, none of the noise is pronounced enough that normal conversation is a problem. As someone else has mentioned here before, sometimes it is nice to turn off the radio and just listen to the noise. Engine noise, again, not totally isolated, but not pronounced either. My cruise is around 3750 RPM and I find the engine noise present but more in a comforting kind of way instead of aggravating. Rattles, plastic shrinks in the winter time and on roads that are tar and gravel they are pretty pronounced, in the summer not as noticeable. I've never tried to track any of them down other than the rear tail-light rattling on the rear deck. Dealer looked at this twice and eliminated it on the second visit. Outside of that, keeping the door and sun-roof siliconed eliminates noise from those areas as well as just being a good idea. Overall, I find the Civic is the car that I thought it would be when I bought it. I put 50K miles a year on it and need it to make it to 250K miles. At this point, I haven't seen any reason why it shouldn't. I think it is the right car for what I need, but that is personal for each of us to decide. Yes, I'd rather drive an Accord or an RSX on the commute but my present situation points more toward economy purchase price and operating budget. I'm thinking RSX or Accord V6 Coupe next time around knowing that there is more expense there. Decision point will be my financial situation at the time. As I've said before, analyze your needs and make a decision. If I didn't blow through the warrantee so quick I'd probably consider some of the Korean imports for their high mileage high time warrantees. I just don't have a high confidence level that they have a good chance of making it to 250K miles at a low expense to me.
As long as the way I use the same method to fill up my tank every single time, whether I stop when it shuts off or squeeze in a little more, the measurement should be valid. Consistency is what's important.
Comments
1. Cold start (hard start) not sure which is right: Has that problem been refined (fixed) yet in these cars?
2. ABS brakes: Do they eliminate the so-so ratings I keep hearing on the Civic's braking?
3. Any weird things going on (funny sounds, etc.)?
4. Anyone hear a "squeak" in ignition upon starting engine?
5. Road noise is it really that bad as I hear?
6. Road handling (winds, rain, etc) how do you rate?
7. Are any of the Civics still made in Japan? and if not why do some VIN#'s start w/ a "J" on the new Civics? (I've seen a few on dealer's lots)
Thanks so much for your help. Would love to see more about the newer Civics on this board.
Sorry just addicted to this I guess..
If it weren't for Edmunds you know this kind of stuff wouldn't get into the mainstream.
Any tips on how to avoid/cut down on this problem?
I am planning on buying a new Civic.
I mean, mazda complains about lack of power but loves getting 36 MPG.
Everything is a compromise. To me, a Civic isn't underpowered. It's not a quarter mile prize winner either.
If the Civic were more powerful it would be at the expense of gas mileage.
What's more important?
We have a 02 Civic EX since April 02.
1. No problem starting
2. Brake works great havent been in emergency situation yet
3. No weird things
4. No
5. Car is not as quiet as our 01 Odyssey or 97 Avalon, but its ok.
6. Road handling great. It was soo great wife got too used to it so when she drives Odyssey she scraped the Odyssey.
7. Yes! Our Civic is made in Japan VIN starts with a "J"
Regards,
bjk
You say you are going to keep abusing your Honda till it has problems. So if a problem does come up because of your abuse are you going to blaim yourself (which is where the blame would lie) or are you going to blame Honda?
Thank you for your suggestion. But why? Different Civics will have BIG differences in performance?? Then I won't consider that good quality control. Or you are trying to say that all of them are slow and it's normal? Well, I'm pretty sure they are. And Honda should advertise 127hp@6500rpm, 27hp and 0 torque @ 3000 rpm. (I hope the real figures are higher @3000rpm. But you get my point.)
"because of your abuse are you going to blaim yourself (which is where the blame would lie)"
Sounds like you work for car dealers and car manufacturers. Always blaming the customers. OK. When I say abuse, I mean revving the car to redline, or close to redline before I shift. Actually, I don't even consider that as abuse because according to Honda, max hp and max torque comes out at somewhere close to redline. And when ppl buy their cars based on the specs, Honda better make sure their cars can last if ppl keep revving it to redline for the power & torque they advertised. And if the car has problems because ppl shift at max hp/torque rpm, then who do you think will be the one to blame.
BTW, what else can I do to abuse? Any suggestions? Drive it over potholes and curbs? If the car falls apart because of driving over too many potholes, then I think it's more of a safety issue. Who to blame? The driver? Why not the manufacturer? Shouldn't they make sure the car is safe before offering it to the public?
Oh, I'm thinking of changing engine oil every 10K miles according to the manual. Or maybe not.
I guess before my purchase, too many ppl told me that the Civic is good. They look good, they are fast, reliable, good suspension, VTEC, blah blah blah. Yeah right. These ppl don't even know what VTEC is. But it's a shame on me too cuz I listened to them. Too bad. Need to stick with it for another 2-3 years. I learned my lesson.
Why should the manufacturer take the blame if something goes wrong as a result of it's owner's abuse? If you purposefully hit every pothole you see and mess up your alignment that is not Honda's problem. If in your haste to redline the car every time you shift you grab the wrong gear or even grind a gear to the point it messes your transmission up then it is your fault, not Hondas. If you don't change your oil when they recommend it and eventually sludge builds up in your engine .. that's your fault, not Hondas, because they tell you when to change the oil specific to your driving conditions.
If you bought a car based off of what other people told you then you have nobody to blame but yourself if you don't like the car. That's what a test drive is for.
"It's purpose is to be a safe (which it is) reliable (which it is) and economical (which it is) car"
Safe -- see if it's safer in a Civic if you were hit by an 18-wheeler.
Reliable -- how many hondas have you owned before? Are you reading the Civic Problems Board?
Economical -- I agree. Not arguing about this.
"But even the EX is not marketed as a sporty car"
Well, go to American Honda's website and see what it says. Here's the exact quote, "Every family needs an overachiever, and the EX Coupe is the Civic's top standout. With a high-performance 1.7-liter, 127-hp VTEC® engine and 15-inch wheels and tires, the Civic EX Coupe is near the top of its class." What is mean by HIGH-PERFORMANCE?? Go further down, another quote says "It's hard to believe that the Civic DX Coupe can get more sporty, but it can and it did." Even the DX is marketed as SPORTY.
Based on your other comments on potholes, you were saying if the road is full of potholes or uneven, I shouldn't drive the Civic over it? OK. Then why bother buying a car. All the roads in the US are not flat and have potholes. So I can go nowhere? And shifting at redline will make you grab the wrong gear, while shifting at 3000rpm won't? Where's that logic coming from. Maybe that's only you. And if what you say is true, Honda should advertise that in their brochures. It should say "Max power comes out @6500 rpm but shifting at that speed will grind your gear. We are not responsible for that and it's your fault."
I agree tho, that in order for ppl to shut up, I need to do maintenance according to the manual.
And please stop saying test drive test drive test drive. Can you take the car out for a day, and testdrive it on those routes that you use to drive. I know I'm one to be blamed because I listened to all those suckers that told me Hondas are good. But you think all those ads & reputations that boast the performance should get away?
Finally, I don't care if you love your Honda. This is the Problems Board for ppl to ask questions and complains. If you want to preach your passion in Hondas, go start a Honda Lovers board.
Reliable: We've actually owned 15 Hondas (16 if you count the one my boyfriend bought for his mother) and out of the 15, 9 of them have had over 100,000 miles. Worst problem (actually it's maintenance related) we've ever had is having to pay mega $$$ to get the rotors changed on 90-93 Accords because they are attached to the hub. Other than that it's been Syntec oil changes every 7,000 miles and the occasional timing belt or CV axle.
Sporty is a relative term and the way Honda uses sporty isn't saying that it's a sports car or even SI/GTI/SVT material. Compared to a stripped down version of any other economy car the DX Coupe probably is sporty. Drive a base CE Corolla or a base Focus and see which is the sportier car. As far as the sedan goes Honda stresses it's safety performance and everyday practicality. And compared to the 115HP LX engine the EX engine is high performance and can post comparable numbers to cars with 10-15 more HP.
I never said that you won't hit potholes on occasion. What I said is that if you purposefully run your car into every pothole you see and eventually it knocks your alignment off .. that's your fault. And under normal circumstances the occasional gear grind won't ruin your transmission but if you do it every time eventually there will be consequences. And no, it's not Honda's fault if you don't know how to drive. And if you shift at 3000 RPM and grab the wrong gear you won't over-rev your engine on a 3-2 shift .. but if you are at 7000 RPM in 3rd gear and you take 2nd instead of 4th that will happen.
I know that during a test drive I can tell whether or not I will like the car and whether the power is an issue. I have never let what someone told me about a car influence my decision. I buy what I like and make sure I like it before I buy it. And if something comes along that I like better .. I buy it as long as the deal is right but I make sure I like that car before I buy it too. Good part about this is that even if I want another car I'm never in a car that I absolutely hate therefore I am never forced to take whatever is available to get me out of the car I'm in so therefore I never hate my cars or feel like I could've gotten a better deal.
I never said that people shouldn't post their problems. It just seems that a few of the more recent "problems" have been related to preference rather than an actual problem with the car. I simply said that mazda should drive another Civic LX to see if his car did have a problem. Then you started some long diatribe and here we are.
Reliable: Why don’t you check the number Recalls and TBSs for the Civic using Edmunds Maintenance Guide. Although some are nonsense, it’s still a lot. Maybe some more serious TBSs are not released? Hope not.
Potholes: IF the alignment will be off after 20 potholes, does it matter whether I intentionally hit them or not? The final result is the same, alignment off after 20 potholes. Oh, did I mention that my car has been in twice for alignment in the first 8 months. It’s out of warranty now so I don’t bother to take it in again. I was still OK with the car at that some so it has NOT been purposefully over any potholes or curbs both before & after the service. Even now, I still tried to avoid potholes cuz I couldn’t stand the bumpy ride.
Shifting: Is there a rev limiter? It won’t work when downshifting? Wow that’s great news. But how many times have you mis-shifted before. Throughout the years of driving a stick, I don’t remember mis-shifting from 3 to 2 unintentionally. Don’t you know it’s different to shift from a 3 to 2 because you have to pull it to neutral, then to the left and down to 2. It’s not like shifting from 3 to 4 or 1 to 2, which you pretty much just pull it all the way down. But I believe some ppl are different cuz they don’t know how to drive, especially those that worry too much about mis-shifting. I agree that if I mis-shifted and the engine blows up, it’s my fault. But what if I have NOT mis-shifted and there are problems. Will it still be my fault? I bet you the answer is still a yes from the manufacturer and its fans. Oh well, I guess I should stop complaining.
Safety. We have a standard. It's the only one we have. So we have to rely on it to tell us which cars are safe. Using this standard it has shown the Civic to be one of the most reliable small cars in the market. We are in the Civic forum. If you think there is another car that is more safe then maybe you should buy it. And you might even mention it here. Sure there are variables in any equation. But arguing the unknown is ignorant if you don't have data to support yourself. It's all hypothesis. The only constant is that the people who do this for a living say the Civic is safe.
Reliable: All data says the Civic is just as if not more reliable than nearly any other small car. Sure there are TSB's and a couple of non reliability related recalls but overall what car is better? If you like that car buy it. If you don't what's the argument. The only car that comes close is the Protege.
Pothole: Not even worth mentioning since potholes are to avoided and alignment getting knocked out isn't a reliability issue nor is it covered under warranty since it's maintenance. You can run through all the potholes you want. It's your car and your money.
Shifting:The rev limiter can't stop the momentum of the car from over-revving the engine. If you are going too fast for 2nd gear the momentum of the car will destroy your engine if you mis-shift. If you don't mis-shift you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure Hondas reputation for reliability is based on the fact that most people don't mis-shift. And in that, Honda engines run a long time.
Enjoy your Honda.
Look I'm really not gonna get into it since there is really nothing to discuss here.
Everyone does not have their own standards. There are only 2 sources of crash test data in the US. The Civic did as well as if not better than any other small car. You got others I'd like to see em.
If you miss a shift at redline and go into a lower gear you'll toast your engine. No rev limiter will help you. And the dealer will say it's your fault the pushrod is stuck through the hood.
If the car is pulling to the side from the moment you drive it off the lot there is an alignment issue. If it starts 6 months after you buy the car it's gonna be up to you to prove you didn't practice a WRC rally move into a ditch.
It's that simple.
1. Are you happy w/ your Civic?
2. Does the vin# start w/ J, 1 or 2?
3. How has service been at Honda dealership
4. What maintenance/ repair have you had to do
to your Civic? Amount you paid?
5. Any problems/troubles you are having? (hard
start, erratic gas gauge, etc.)
Thanks to all!
2. My VIN starts with a S .. the Si is built in England .. other Civic starts with a 1
3. Haven't had to take either in for service at the dealer yet .. but the times I have been to a Honda dealer with other cars haven't been that bad.
4. Oil changes are about it .. we use Syntec oil and it's $45 using a Mobil 1 filter .. haven't had any repairs yet except a windshield on the 02 SI
5. No problems to report .. both are running strong without a glitch as have all of the other Honda/Acura products we've owned.
Yes, I have a 2002 Civic SI. I appreciate that
it is very smooth, solid with a firm ride, and
decent handling. It runs on regular gas and
I get 28+ MPG in mostly highway but pretty
agressive driving, like 80+.
Its front suspension seems very sensitive.
More than just a "road-feel" issue, if you get
my drift. Read on to hear about my experience.
2. Does the vin# start w/ J, 1 or 2?
Oops. I typically can't send email from
outdoors ;-) I think they are all made in
England (the SI) so that should answer it.
3. How has service been at Honda dealership
They have been very polite, but .... they
haven't been accurate with me, they performed
a service but replaced my tires with a
different brand at a lower speed rating,
without asking me nor informing me. They didnt
clean up the tires/wheels when the changed
them. This may be good service ;-), but I
don't think so. They haven't asked me about
my service experience either. I can say the
service department seemed to work very hard
and were polite to everyone there while I
waited for my car.
4. What maintenance/ repair have you had to do
to your Civic? Amount you paid?
Had all 4 tires replaced on a brand new SI
after the dealer simply couldn't get the car
to run smoothly.
One tire had to have failed their tests since
they wrote fail on it, although they claimed
they couldn't figure out what was wrong. They
asked me to accept the car and drive it for
a few hundred miles to see if it got better.
(Funny, this was after they had "failed" a
tire through some exhaustive attempts to
balance them).
They later
replaced ALL tires (Michellin Pilot MXV4) with
a different model (H-rated Michellin Energy
MXV4) but I didn't figure this out until say
a while later. Could be trying to
cover up a little suspension issue, but I
haven't had the time nor inclination to make
them change ALL 4 TIRES AGAIN back to the type
that the car came with.
The car runs much more smoothly, although at
a few speeds you can feel slight wiggling
especially if you have one hand on the wheel.
Gripping it with two hands makes the problem
feel like it goes away mostly. Running faster,
like up at 80+, the thing smooths out.
Its a pretty minimal vibration although
somewhat disconcerting, hopefully its not
going to become very pronounced if I put on
some performance wheels/tires this summer.
5. Any problems/troubles you are having? (hard
start, erratic gas gauge, etc.)
When gas is low, the car has to turn over a
number of times to start it.
Wind noise is pronounced.
Road noise is pronounced.
Vibration due to high "bass" levels in music
from left rear of car. I haven't tried to
figure this one out yet.
Vibration from the front roof above the
front right visor. (The SI has a moonroof).
The visor contacting the roof exacerbates the
vibration.
Thanks to all!
I should say in summary, that I got the 2002
Civic SI under 16000 including delivery. (Not
including taxes). I think its a very nice car
even with its minor irritants at that price point
and that I very much enjoy driving it. It is
very peppy and performance feeling and for the
price I think it is a great competitor to a
2002 Focus SVT which probably sells even cheaper
right now.
minor nit:
Consumed a quart in the first 1000 miles. I
absolutely follow the break in reccomendations for
you honda fanatics out there. For the rest of
you I appreciate you sharing your experiences
if only to hear another point of view.
fun factor.. 2001 LX.....5
2002 Sir....10
P.S. thanks for the info from prior posts about the MXV4's.
I do wish that the steering was a little more settled (ala my 99-00 Civic SI) but it is still a good enough highway car and is not a pain to drive at high speeds for 8 hours + at a time.
Can I just say that those seats are awesome?
I have to say I loved my '98 Civic Hatchback, but I am not happy with my '02 Civic LX Sedan at all! I had a baby so I needed a 4-door. I bought it last April.
The first problem I found was that the car downshifts heavily when coasting down a hill while riding the brake a little. It totally freaked my husband and I out the first few times it did that. I am told by a mechanic friend it's some sort of tranny/solenoid issue that needs to be fixed.
The next thing is my car wouldn't start. This happened about 6 times so far and I had plenty of gas. The dealership told me it could happen from driving and shutting off and then starting soon after, but it wasn't that either.
Then, the rubber seal above my windshield is buckling. It's all wavy and looks terrible.
Then just yesterday, we had a small snow storm. I forgot to put my car in the garage, and I'm glad because now I know I have a leak. We were leaving for church and I come out to find a puddle on the passenger-side carpet the size of my head! It was dribbling from the engine wall or something.
There are also a few things that could be designed better. Like the knobs for the temperature, air direct, etc. From the driver's side, you cannot see the little icons that show the arrows of where the air will flow because the icons are away from the driver and the knobs hide them. Example: I cannot see the arrow pointing to the feet. And I am a 5'7" tall female. Also, the radio is too hard to reach. It would be better to place the knobs mentioned above under or above the radio. I think that's how my other Civic was. Also, the notch for the visors is on the opposite side of the side I try to grab. I am right-handed. It would be nice to have a notch on both sides so I could pull the visor down more easily. The outer mirrors are weird too. They sit at an odd angle, like they're not parallel to the road. IN order to use the mirrors, my 6'3" husband has to angle them and they max out, so to speak, so he can see okay but not any farther than that.
The last thing I want to mention is that I constantly get pulled over by the police in this car for no reason, or a very lame reason. I usually have my 6-month old in the back and I'm a good driver. I think I've been stopped about 6 times and never got a ticket. They just think I'm a kid or something. My car is black so that probably doesn't help. Once I was stopped by 2 cops and they were shining their lights in the car only to find myself, my husband and my son who was 8 weeks old at the time coming home from a family friend's house! They were very apologetic as you can imagine!
So, that's my feeling about my car. There are things I like but the problems spoil it, and I'm really not sure I'll trust Honda again. I never thought I'd get such a bad car. Like I said I loved my '98.
Thanks for listening. Any suggestions? Will Honda listen to my plight? I'm getting nowhere with the service dept. I have only had this car 7 months and bought it new.
Christine
Please would love to hear more positive stuff about the newer Civics?
Anyone else have something to share? The Good, Bad and the Ugly..
Thanks again..
Some thoughts:
+ Maintenance has been fine, been doing it all at the dealer, so far in 10k+ miles, only has needed scheduled maintenance (I'm following the severe conditions schedule).
+ Two problems initially: The alignment was very slightly off-center (no pulling, just straight ahead was a bit skewed) when I first took delivery of the car, which was realigned under warranty. And in the cold weather, the A-pillars rattle, which I solved by stuffing some packing material between the plastic cover and the windshield.
+ The car handles well, is much more tossable than a 2000 Accord I have driven extensively and understeers near the limit. (But watch out, the OEM tires lose a lot of traction on wet surfaces.) Steering feel is communicative and best-in-class IMHO, though some enthusiasts might find it a bit heavy. The suspension is a bit harsh and does not absorb bumps as well as the Accord, likely a factor of the short wheelbase and the handling 'bias'.
+ Not too much power in the engine, but it gets you where you need to go. In the EX VTEC, the best power comes on between 4-6k, but I usually drive between 1500 and 3000rpm to save gas. As it has been noted before, though, it's not a fast car-- low end torque in this light car feels weaker than the 150hp 4 cylinder in the Accord.
+ The length of the car makes it easy to park, but it's hard to see the end of the car out the back window. Once you get used to it, it's not too bad-- I am usually farther from cars than I think.
+ I actually like the control placement, with the three dial knobs closest to the driver and the radio along the same plane. All the A/C and radio controls are at the same level as my hands when I'm driving, and I don't have to look down to find them.
+ I get approximately 32-36 miles per gallon on 65% highway, 35% city driving. As high as 39, as low as 29 (below 30 just once). I usually go about 350-400 miles on a little more than 10 gallons between fill-ups.
+ The paint is pretty thin, I scratched it by putting my laundry basket on the trunk! I'm more concerned about vehicle operation and efficiency, but this was pretty annoying.
+ I carry people around a lot, and the rear seat is acceptable. People say they like the humpless middle seat, but I never ride back there, so I wouldn't know.
Before I bought my car, I was considering the Protege, Civic, and Elantra (new Corolla hadn't come out yet). I was planning on getting a Protege, but after driving both it and the Civic, I felt that the Civic cockpit was more roomy, I liked the fit and finish of its interior, and the Civic has an advantage in fuel economy and steering feel. I didn't like the vibrations coming through the wheel of the Protege, or its tiny sunroof. Supposedly the Protege is better handling-wise, but I didn't drive either car hard enough to distinguish a difference, and the Protege does ride a little better. The Elantra I drove, and it's not too bad, but I liked the overall feel of the Civic. It was hard to get over the low price of the Elantra, though...
IMHO, in this class, I'd think if money was top priority, go with the Elantra... Corolla and Civic are nice overall packages, the former being more comfortable and the latter being more driver-friendly. The Protege is, according to C&D and others, the most driver-friendly car if you really want a good handling car. None of these cars are fast, though... The fastest cars in this segment would probably be the Mazdaspeed Protege or the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, which are a couple $K more. Or heck, splurge for the Impreza WRX for a real thrill.
Conrad
***shaking my head....sorry***
Have you done something to your car to attract the cop's attention?
For example, I know cops HATE dark tinted windows. They can't see what's going on inside.
I just can't see how a certain kind of a car can cause this unless it's a Ferrari or something?
BTW If you care about the performance and fun factor, but not the resale value
I know it sounds silly, but that's what I have been experiencing!
Christine
first of all, thanks for the reply about slow starting ignition. I DO have to leave the key in the ON position for 5 sec, then ACC. Starts fine after that. (design flaw, IMHO.)
now, a new problem (I guess I just love to b****
some background data:
1. yes, I do check the PSI of the tires. constant 30-31psi per tire.
2. I live in Boston. Weather has been in the low 30's recently.
3. these past two weeks have been 65%/35% highway/city. very little stop and go.
4. I've changed my oil no more than 2 months ago.
5. I typically use the radio and heater while driving (5AM drives to work are starting to hurt =(
6. I follow the flow of the traffic on highways = 70-80mph. I never come close to red-lining on accelerations (most I've gone accel to is 3500rpm, usually i drive around 2000rpm)
7. my car is relatively light. just myself (160lb), a box of donuts, a few dress shirts in the back seats, and some jumper cables,etc in the trunk...hmm..that's it
any tips/advice???
thanks!
karl
I always assumed it was mostly due to stop and go traffic in the city. Once, I think I found the gas mileage (mpg) to be disturbingly low 20's.
But the advertised claim is 31 mpg in the city so is 25-27 mpg in the summer and 22-24 mpg in the Chicago winter normal? Thanks!
It's a silly question, I know, but sometimes people don't realize that it is "difficult" to determine MPG based on most people's filling habits, which include pumping a little extra past the cutoff-- pumping past the cutoff can add enough gas to disrupt MPG calculations by 1-3 MPG because adding even a quarter of a gallon of gas past the cutoff would add 10 miles or so. For example, if you run 300 miles and then put 10 gallons in to the cutoff, you'd calculate 30 mpg, but if you put in 10.25 gallons (past cutoff), you'd get 29.3 mpg... 10.5 gallons becomes 28.6...
So when calculating MPG, you want to try to normalize for things such as differences in gasoline, amount you put in, gas expansion, etc. So you might want to try to use the same gas station, filling up at the same time of day after driving a fixed amount (say, filling up at the same gas station on the way to work), and filling only up to the automatic cutoff. And then doing this 3-5 times and averaging the result. Obviously, you won't be able to account for every factor, but this should give you a better picture of your gas mileage....
So if you're doing that, and you still get crappy mileage... try driving at the speed limit for a tank or two and see if that improves your mileage, or taking off from a stop slowly (not letting the engine rev above, say, 3500 rpm). I found that there's a big difference between driving at 60mph and driving at 80mph, and a big difference when I'd rev the engine to 5000 rpm from stops and when I'd rev to 3000 rpm... the difference was about 5-7 mpg...
Conrad
I'm starting to have regrets. Before you buy
this car, take it out on the highway and get it
up to 70 mph or so. It is not a quiet or relaxing highway cruiser. A very buzzy motor
making lots of noise (3500rpm @ 70mph) & a vibration I can feel through the floor. This car is not for highway trips. Starting to think I should have bought the Sentra SER or just have spent the extra bucks and gotten the Accord or Altima. It would have been worth it.
i usually stop filling at the automatic cutoff point. i have been trying most of the tips you've suggested, save driving at the speed limit :P
so driving 60 vs 80 eats up 7mpg??? wow, i'll keep that in mind for the next few weeks.....
As you notice by the mileage, it is driven a lot, daily commute is 90 miles each direction, all Interstate. I cruise at 76 MPH for 70% of the drive, 70 MPH for the remainder which is a construction zone. I live in Georgia, drive to South Carolina everyday.
The car has been dealer maintained at the severe intervals, other than that no other work on the car and no modifications. I got rid of the Firestones at 6000 miles and have been riding on Michelin X radial Plus since that time.
Mileage. I end up filling up every two days. At one point I thought that I could tell variances in mileage between different brands of gas but, my recent observations are that automatic cutoff on fuel pumps are not consistent from pump to pump. I allow the nozzle to automatically cut-off while I clean the windshield and then manually fill it until it cuts off again. I usually find this only adds a few tenths of a gallon more to the tank, but have had one nozzle that overflowed onto the ground as I was manually topping the tank. Here are some recent numbers that would tend to indicate that you must take a longer term view at MPG. Easy for me since I drive the same everyday, probably harder for most others.
4.362 gal 49.17mpg $1.33
7.987 28.83 $1.33
10.474 38.36 $1.34
10.871 37.46 $1.30
10.306 35.58 $1.33
5.976 35.07 $1.3
11.163 37.41 $1.30
9.936 35.74 $1.30
4.259 36.08 $1.28
11.577 34.95 $1.28
10.281 35.71 $1.27
These are all consecutive fillups and as you can tell some variance exists. What led me to think about different pumps being the main variable are the first two entries, obviously on the first one the tank wasn't filled and on the second one it was. If you average these two together, it gets back in the ballpark at 39mpg. The mileage on the first entry was 214.5 miles meaning that the pump left the tank about 1.2 gallons short based on an average of 39mpg. This is extreme, but I've seen it to a lesser extent in the past when filling the tank from a half empty state.
The long term average is 36.76mpg on these figures which I consider to be pretty good considering the speed at which I drive.
Of course as has been mentioned there are a lot of other variables such as shift points (between 3500 and 4000 rpm for me), tire pressure, etc. that might affect these numbers.
Other thoughts, it is an economy car. I haven't driven the competition in this price range so can't speak about their wind and road noise. I can compare to my parents Crown Victoria which I drove last weekend. Wind noise in the Civic is less and road noise is more. I think road noise is a Honda issue, a coworker has an Accord EX V6 which also has noticeable road noise. Not an issue with me, I normally ride alone, radio on, sunroof cracked open. Even when I am driving with someone else, none of the noise is pronounced enough that normal conversation is a problem. As someone else has mentioned here before, sometimes it is nice to turn off the radio and just listen to the noise.
Engine noise, again, not totally isolated, but not pronounced either. My cruise is around 3750 RPM and I find the engine noise present but more in a comforting kind of way instead of aggravating.
Rattles, plastic shrinks in the winter time and on roads that are tar and gravel they are pretty pronounced, in the summer not as noticeable. I've never tried to track any of them down other than the rear tail-light rattling on the rear deck. Dealer looked at this twice and eliminated it on the second visit. Outside of that, keeping the door and sun-roof siliconed eliminates noise from those areas as well as just being a good idea.
Overall, I find the Civic is the car that I thought it would be when I bought it. I put 50K miles a year on it and need it to make it to 250K miles. At this point, I haven't seen any reason why it shouldn't.
I think it is the right car for what I need, but that is personal for each of us to decide. Yes, I'd rather drive an Accord or an RSX on the commute but my present situation points more toward economy purchase price and operating budget. I'm thinking RSX or Accord V6 Coupe next time around knowing that there is more expense there. Decision point will be my financial situation at the time.
As I've said before, analyze your needs and make a decision. If I didn't blow through the warrantee so quick I'd probably consider some of the Korean imports for their high mileage high time warrantees. I just don't have a high confidence level that they have a good chance of making it to 250K miles at a low expense to me.
As long as the way I use the same method to fill up my tank every single time, whether I stop when it shuts off or squeeze in a little more, the measurement should be valid. Consistency is what's important.