Honda Civic: Problems & Solutions

fmbob

I am NOT a mechanic by any means, so please stay with me.

Wife owns a '94 Honda Civic, 1.5L which just turned 30,000 miles. Friday night she told me the car was not acting right and blowing white smoke from tail pipe ... she said it started doing this after it had warmed up a bit. Yesterday, after car sat all night, I started it up and drove it up the road a bit. Noticed within 5 minutes or so that the temp gauge was up near the top red mark ... also at that time the car started hesitating etc. and the bright white smoke then started to come from the tail pipe. Got car right back home and shut it off. No warning lights came on, only the temp gauge showing overheating ... the radiator fan did NOT activate ... when puffing the bright white smoke from tail pipe, it smelled like antifreeze ... noticed also that no heat was being produced thru vents. There IS coolant in the plastic reservoir and radiator showing OK on the marks ... oil and transmission fluids fine also.

Before I take it in for repair, does anyone have
any idea as to what MIGHT be the problem???

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ... Bob

bobs5

White smoke out of the tail pipe is a bad sign, this usually means a head gasket went bad.

Check the level of coolant in the radiator, instead of the overflow reservoir.

btroy

Don't drive it in. Have it towed. It may still be fixable, but overheating the engine again could make things even worse.

fmbob

Thanks fellas for the response. I did have the car towed into the local Honda dealer yesterday .. head gasket as you both said ... to the tune of like $580 ... unless they find MORE wrong with it. Not being a mechanic, I guess my other question would be: why or what would make the head gasket go bad on a vehicle that just turned 30,000 miles and is not abused???

Thanks again ...

de Bob

bobs5

There may have been a defect in the gasket.
Stuff happens.

We had a 1979 Datsun 310 with a 1.4ltr? 4 cyl.
It lunched the head gasket around 30k miles.

greentrees77

I have a 90 Civic, 230,000 miles, that I'm trying to nurse along at minimum expense. Have a coolant system problem, I keep bursting hoses, on my third in a week! The system isn't showing that it's running hot, it appears to be getting overpressured. I replaced the radiator cap, and the overflow line is clear. In fact, the coolant overflow reservoir has been empty when I have checked it after the hoses burst, as if it is sucking back coolant as it loses coolant out the leak?

Perhaps the new radiator cap is bad? I can't see how this system is getting overpressured!

Any insights would be appreciated.

bobs5

WOW that is a strange problem.

Which hose/s are bursting? The radiator or heater hoses. Is it the same hose each time? How long after a new hose is put on, that it bursts?

The radiator cap is working by your description.

Maybe the thermostat is bad?
Maybe something is getting clogged up like a heater core or the radiator?

I would think it would take great pressure to burst a hose. Hope it is not a bad head gasket which is allowing the compression force of the engine into the cooling system.

Good luck

kt2

For the people in topic #797 acceleration noise, I have a '99 civic LX. I tried the corolla as you did before I bought the civic. Unlike you I found the corolla to be noisier than the civic and the drivers seat in the toyota would not go back far enough to make my legs comfortable and I am only 5ft.10 1/2in.tall. However if I were to buy another one I would look for one that was made in Japan rather than the U.S.A. When I got the car the door panel clips were loose on the drivers door and the torsion bar that holds the trunk open had a broken retainer clip so the trunk wouldn't stay open. Also the timing belt was sqeaking so they had to replace the timing belt tensioner. I guess the Japanese still build better cars than the americans. Believe me I hate to admit it. Oh ya the alternator also had to be replaced all taken care of under warranty. I now have 20k on the car and have so far not had any more problems. From all of the good things I have heard about Honda, I was a little disappointed that I had to return to the dealer several times for service. It's a fun car to drive and one of the few cars I've owned that you can drive for 3 or 4 hours straight and not get tired of it.

txxt

Hi there,

Just got my 2000 Honda Civic LX with AT few days ago. The roaring sound during acceleration makes me crazy. I Just talked to a Honda service and I was told this is probably by a logic system installed for going up/down hill but this happening during normal drive on flat road. I will have a service to take a look but is anyone experiencing the same problem or this is normal.

Thanks.

jaubrey

This is response to greentrees77's bursting hose problem.

My suggestion might be a little late but ....

Before I bought my '98 Civic Honda, I owned a 12-yr-old Subaru. As the car was old, things were breaking down. When I started having to replace hose after radiator hose, a mechanic told me I shoulda replaced all of them a while back and all at the same time. As soon as one hose ruptured and was replaced, he said, another would burst. And sure enough, that was what happened. Something to do with pressure and worn-out hoses.

My Subaru also had a radiator that needed replacing because some of the rusted flukes had been bashed in by a clumsy mechanic (who didn't bother to tell me about his gross stupidity) a while back. No doubt that was part of the problem, so was the thermostat that quit.

You might also want to check the thermo resistor, or whatever it's called. It looks like a spark plug and it gauges the engine's temperature (or high heat). If it needs replacing, it could give your engine a false reading as to whether it's reached its optimum heat range (plus 500 deg. F).

isellhondas

I suspect the thermostat may have stuck in the closed position on your Civic. When this happens, unless it is noticed and the car is quickly shut down it will cause the engine to overheat.

The first thing to go will be the head gasket.

Since you continued to drive it in that condition, you are fortunate no real damage occured!

akapla01

I think I got a lemon. I have a 2000 Civic EX 4 door. There is a clunking, creaking sound coming from the passenger side front suspension area. It has been in the shop for 2 days (this is the 2nd time) and they still can't find where the noise is coming from. Any ideas? The noise can be heard when the car is moving very slowly and you encounter any sort of bump in the road. It is especially noisy if you turn the steering wheen to the left and then to the right and then to the left, etc. while going about 5 MPH. Help!!!! Also, the trunk leaks! Anyone had any similar problems?

Thanks...

spokane

As you probably know, these symptoms could be associated with many of the suspension components. Possibly even the wheel hub or brake assembly. However, if the shop has done a careful visual check and the wheel bearings and brakes function normally, I would first suspect the "Damper Mounting Base." That's Honda's name for the thrust bearing assembly at the top of the spring. The spring and strut assembly must be removed and dismantled to replace this item but it's not a big job.

Trunk leak? Get inside the trunk with a bright light and have someone spray water around the trunk seal, rear window, wheel wells, and beneath the trunk area (if necessary) until you see the water. The dealer should have done this but, if he hasn't, you can thus be very specific in your water leak complaint.

Both of these problems are solvable; you certainly should not have to live with either of them. Good luck.

galina1

My 1999 Honda Civic dx is still under warranty. I have a reoccuring problem with the malfunction indicator lamp going on, usually after I get gas. It's been in twice to the dealer and it has gone on again the very night I picked it up from them (when I did not get gas). They claim it is a loose gas cap and not a big deal.
This week, my oil light went on and my car lost all oil! This happpened in an instant. I towed it in to them and they claim it was a faulty oil filter and that no damage was done to the engine. They refused to show me any documentation of them checking the engine, or even let a mechanic test drive it with me. I am totally freaked out and afraid for the long term life of my engine. The service clerk basically stated that "no one had a crystal ball" I took the car and drove it for three hours and it SEEMS to be okay.Any advice on how to approach this issue.

spokane

If the diagnostic trouble code is for incorrect fuel tank pressure, it probably is not serious and could be poor fit of the filler cap. However, it could also be a vacuum problem, electrical problem, or several other things. Remind them of these possibilities as a method of getting them to defend their diagnosis. The shop manual details the troubeshooting procedure for each trouble code. Even though your problem may not be serious, you should insist on having it repaired. Their explanation may be correct but this is the type of problem that a poorly-motivated shop may try to avoid dealing with.

I presume your oil filter ruptured; that would cause very rapid loss of all the oil. If you stopped the engine immediately when the oil-pressure light lit, there is likely to be no damage. A physical check for internal engine damage is not practical but it is suggested, in case you do later need proof of responsibility, you obtain: (1) a record of who provided and installed the filter which ruptured, (2) the ruptured filter if possible, and (3) dealer's written description of the failure mode. In the meantime, monitor the sound and "feel" of the engine, oil consumption rate, fuel economy, engine coolant temperature. If you see significant deterioration in these areas, report it to the dealer ASAP. If you don't get a favorable response, I would next get a reputable independent garage's assessment. Armed with this information, calmly ask your attorney how to proceed.

Hopefully, the above data-gathering is only a form of insurance and your engine is OK. Good luck.

PyroCPU

Yup, my 99 Civic EX coupe has a trunk leak too. Water sits in the spare tire well only after a thorough hose-down wash of the car though. I sent the car to the dealer for warranty repair, but they didn't care to lift up the @#$% carpet and check UNDER it. I think it's a leak between the bumper and the body.

I'm also having clunking noises from the right rear suspension, but since I've lowered the car with aftermarket springs, Honda wouldn't cover it.

cdt

hi all
I just bought a 93 civic DX,It is a really good car (only 67k miles on it). but i run into a trouble after stupid forget turn off the light last week. the battery run out. A freind help me to recover the power without any difficult. The problem now is that the radio system stop work now!! the manual says that it need a code to reset the radio system. But i do know where can i find the code. Please help me out!!
it is really surker to drive a good car without music.

caprirooster

Hi CDT,

You will have to bring the car to the dealer and let them pull the radio system out to look for the serial number. From there, they will be able to look up the security code, at the same time you might as well as them for the plastic card that contains the code.

greentrees77

Well, here's a very belated thanks to those who responded on my radiator hose problem. Had three burst in a week, but replaced those, and the radiator cap for good measure, and have been fine since. I guess that jaubrey's mechanic was correct, and that old hoses can go one after another like that.

This car has been unbelievable. The interior and body have been thoroughly trashed by a flood, and a far to close encounter with an uprooted freeway sign in a real bad storm (separate incidents)in the last couple of years, and I've been severely neglecting maintenance, but at 233,000 miles it's still running great.

I'm planning on replacing it with another Civic soon, and am interested in those reporting problems with the new models. For those reporting problems, please keep us updated.

Also, I'd like to re-iterate aklapa01's comment. Whenever I've gotten into one of those hassles about warranty repairs, I've never gotten any satisfaction in bitching at the dealer, but have done very well complaining to corporate. If you have a problem with your Honda, stop arguing with the dealer and contact American Honda.

mikeand

I have a '92 Civic, 1.5 liter SOHC engine, with 80,000 miles on it. I have changed the oil and filter every 3,000 miles and had all other service done on schedule done a former Honda dealership shop foreman. A few months ago, oil consumption jumped from nothing to a quart every 200 miles. The car still runs good, and only smokes when the RPM is up. I used to work on small block Chevies and the first thing I thought of was valve guides. I asked my mechanic about it and he said that these engines don't wear out valve guides, but do break oil rings. I pulled the spark plugs and two of them were coated with oil ash, but it seemed strange to me that that engine could break two oil rings at the same time. Then I noticed that the cylinders affected were #1 and #2 which are the closest to the PCV valve connection on the FI intake manifold.

Is it possible that a bad PCV valve could cause this much oil consumption? Many thanks for any help.

bill11770

if the radio is the original radio on the car, all you need is the VIN number. Go to the honda dealer and they should be able to get you the code from the VIN number

rogerrabbit

I have a 2000 Civic LX 4Dr sedan with the same symptoms or "creaking suspensions" from the rear suspension area. Thanks for the posting which I will no use to have dealer fix the problem.

caprirooster

In response to your suggestions, I have already had the tires balanced and rotated at NTB and I also watch the technician turn the tires on the rim. So far only one bad rim which ended up on the rear wheel. My car still shimies at high speed. I guess I'll have to drop the car at Honda for them to diagnose the problem. There is a creak coming from the front passenger wheel when turning or going over speed bumps which does not happen consistently. So I am pretty much trying to nail down the cause.

Thanks for you help and input!

auburn63

Your welcome and good luck, have them try and swap the 4 tires if they are willing. Again good luck..

flyer9

I'm on my 6th Honda and the newest member is hard to impossible to start on short trips (4-10) miles or out of the garage to wash and back in. The next
day it will be hard to impossible to start. the dealer says to give it some throttle and that this
is not uncommon. I'm no mechanic and from the sound of the answer I got, neither is the service manager at the dealership. Anyone else out there with the same problem?

auburn63

We have had some 6 cylynder cars with that problem for which there is no fix, as of yet. I know that the winter fuel they are using in alot of the states is causing some problems also.Other than that you may have a valve that is too tight causing a slight loss of compression.
What model is it? I can try and research it better knowing.

flyer9

It's a 1.6 liter sedan. I could understand the winter gas trouble if there was some consistency. 30 days worth of driving and 5 hard starts with no common thread on any of them. Any advice would be appreciated. It might be time to take it to another dealer and get a fresh point of view.

r2mr2

Hello, has anyone had problems taking the key out of the ignition after moving shifter into park? I had to reshift and shift back to "P" to get the key out.

caprirooster

Hi Auburn63,

I read in the Accord forum that you are located in NY, where exactly??

BTW, I had found out the problem with my Civic... I have a leaking front passenger strut. Also would you mind if I ask you to confirm this two part numbers:
51605-SR3-013 Right Strut Unit
51606-SR3-013 Left Strut Unit

Thanks,
Capri

auburn63

Actually in Nj, near the middle on the shore.As far as the part numbers I will check them on wednesday and let you know..Glad you found your problem...

auburn63

I forget what kind of car you had so I did a reverse look up and these parts are for a 1994-1995 Civic 4dr DX,LX,EX,ABS stick and auto.Price wise Honda suggested retail is 102.92. Does this sound about right?

auburn63

I havent seen any in our area however if it didnt get fully into park the first time then that could explain why it happened. The circuit must see the park signal in order to release the key. If it continues to happen take it back to the dealer maybe in your area it is common and will be a no brainer for one of the techs..Good luck

caprirooster

Thanks Auburn63!

I have a 94 Civic EX and the price is about right. By the way, is there any differences between the struts used in the 94 Civics against those is the later years especially in the EX trim??

I had talked to a third party shop that had mentioned something that the engine mounts from the 94 model is different than that after 96, in terms of better mounts. I am hoping you can shed some light on this.

auburn63

I dont really know but I will try and find out. Being that I work at the dealer I dont have much experiance with swapping parts we always use what the application calls for.They are different in construction but will they fit ......I will try and check. I can usally tell by supersetions of part numbers. If they dont then I dont try but if the old does change to the new then they are the same..
As far as the struts go I doubt it because they did make a bracket change on the struts and I think that I have been down that wrong road before thinking that I could and couldnt...I will try and check..see ya

PyroCPU

If you let the ignition key sit in the "ON" position for several seconds before turning the key to "START," you may get better results. This way, the fuel injection system will have had a chance to pressurize and send fuel up to the engine. It also lets the car's computer adjust for other variables (temp, etc). Also have the dealer check for the idle air control (IAC). If you take a look at your throttle body, you'll see a flathead-screw recessed into a hole. That screw adjusts the idle, allowing air into the engine at idle. If that's too tight, the car may be a little hard to start.

spokane

I have also encountered the problem of removing the ignition key. The problem is likely associated with the "A/T Gear Position Switch" located alongside the shift lever beneath the console. It's possible the switch has a faulty terminal but far more likely that the switch position simply needs to be adjusted. This is a straightforward procedure covered in the Honda shop manual, Electrical chapter, under "A/T Gear Position Indicator." Good luck.

pat455

In order to keep similar discussions in one place, I am copying and reposting the following from another topic:

#0 of 0: Honda Civic Power Door Lock Problem (denisme) Wed 12 Apr '00 (12:43 PM)

Asking for help on a 93'Civic Lx sedan which the
power door locks stopped operating a few months
ago. Started out with intermittant failures on the
PDL,sometimes they worked,sometimes they did
not.Now nothing works.None of the doors lock or
unlock,either with the drivers door switch or the
respective door switch.Looking at the Haynes
manual,I tried to measure voltage at the back of
the drivers door switch,0v on either wire.Ground
wire is good(tested with multimeter).The fuse is
good also. Anybody have any suggestions?

Anyone have any thoughts on denisme's problem?

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

auburn63

If you have inspected all fuses under the hood and inside the car and all are good then you probably have a bad control unit for the PDL.One other area you would want to check is to wiggle the wires inbetween the door jam on the front doors coming out of the door side. These wires sometime loosen up the connectors and or break due to all the openings and closings off the doors.I will look at a manual and try and get back to you if you need more help..

spokane

If fuse #6 (20A, located in the under-dash fusebox)is OK, you will need to remove the driver's door panel and check circuits at the PDL control unit. This unit is located just above the radio speaker and attached to the door by two screws. Disconnect the seven-wire connector from the control unit and verify that the black wire has continuity to ground. If a poor ground exists, check/tighten the grounding terminal located in the driver's door sill; just beneath the plastic sill cover. Next connect the voltmeter between ground and the White/Green-Stripe wire to verify that you have battery voltage.

Assuming the above are OK, but your symptoms are unchanged, the most likely problem is a faulty switch in the driver's door. To check this, reconnect the control unit wiring and disconnect the door-lock switch. On the 3-pin switch harness connector, (A) jumper the black terminal to the Green/White terminal momentarily; the doors should lock. Now (B) jumper the black terminal to the Green/Red terminal momentarily; the doors should unlock.

If both (A) and (B) produced the desired result, replace the switch. If either (or both) of these checks failed, it's a near certainty that the control unit needs to be replaced. Good luck.

denisme

Thanks to spokane and auburn63 for helping me locate a corroded connector in the wire harness as it enters the drivers door from the body. I cleaned out the connector,retaped the harness and all works now!

bishopk99

My car is poltergeist...can sit at a light at
perfect idle speed - - - then "bam" jump'in
off the line. On the freeway, very intermittent
but can feel it. No help from mechanics both from
honda and outside. One suggestion is a fuel line
"bubble"??? C'mon...been going on for 18 months
now.

background: 1988 civic DX 1.5 ltr. 4 spd A/T.
109,000 miles.

any help or suggestion...tranny is fine..works
(when it wants to) like a champ. Just don't
want to get raped on the cost to fix.

reply: bishopk99@yahoo.com

P.S. owner of a new 00 Accord V6 EX (Vtec)
and my poltergeist car, really loved this
site!! great info.

thanks,
Kev

seaf

Yes the manual does say about 10-15 seconds is enough, but I'd like to be safe and wait about 30 secs - 1 min. The difference in pollution between waiting 15 secs and 60 seconds is probably negligeable. I would advise against idling for 10 minutes before driving away though.

As for VTEC, I haven't driven a VTEC civic, but from what I hear the VTECs actually give you a burst of power at higher RPMs, and the non-VTECs just revs loudly but not much power develops.

auburn63

Denisme glad we could help yo out and that you were able to pin point it and fix...

Bishopk99, Is there anything more you can tell us about the problem...like is it possible the ac could be on and set too high.Is the car in gear, not in gear,and how high do you think it is going(rpm wise)? There is the possibility of a bad ground by the thermostat housing and also I remebber something about the wire going to the air control valve? I will have to check on that one and what the causes were it has been a while since I have seen those. I will check on tuesday when I return to work..Sorry it cant be sooner but hey I have off a few days and I try to not think to hard about cars:)....see ya

anonymous

For some more info and what was posted in reference to my '88 civic DX A/T the following is
a brief history.

Never had a problem....10 yrs worth, simple stuff
like alternator and tires, brakes..what you would
expect from a 10 yr old car.

However, while deployed to the persian gulf, my wife (by my recommendation) took the car accross the street for a blown radiator hose. OK, fine..
(now the car has no A/C (light on, but does not engage)) idle speed at start and "poltergiest" times, flies off the line, intermittently...this
was in '98. RPMs up to around 5 grand guestamate as there is no TAC.

I came back and found she took it to honda and
they could not diagnose the problem..sure..
it is intermiittent...I received 280.00 worth of
motor mounts due to excessive motor vibrations..
(not too bad, probably needed them sooner or later), but problem not fixed. Came back...
I did a 90,000 mile service, and they told me
I needed a new muffler...replaced everything
from the manifolds to the rear. Worked good
for a time with the new muffler and pipes,
but the polergeist is back.

Honestly, I have been driving it only. I put the
car in neutral at lights and baby it. I will get into a little bit of extra cash in June and want to get her fixxed up right but don't want to get
raped on cost (yes sir, you need a 3,000 tranny).

To me, it sounds simple...fuel line?? computer idle chip?? the O2 senor and exhaust has already
been checked out fine.

Hope this helps....

Reply to here or to bishopk99@yahoo.com

Any help appreciated.

Kevin.

P.S. My 10 day old EX VTEC Accord V6 is a
dream, take it on a mountain road to feel the
wishbone! (like I did on Saturday).

Kev

auburn63

As far as the Ac goes you may want to check the power wire that goes to the compressor. The wire mounts down to the compressor and tends to break at the first hold down area. Disconnect the connector near bottom of fan(I think it is a red wire single pin)then pull up on the wire on the compressor side and see if it comes out of its shield covering.
As far as the idle if the ac switch is coming on but no load from the compressor then this could be a problem for the idle. However if no ac on at time of problem it sounds as if the idle control valve and or its wiring is defective. It is about the only thing that can cause an idle surge like that. Unless a coolant temp sensor is sensing cold motor while warm. I forgot to check on the year of the wiring problem to the Idle control valve so I will try and remeber tomorrow.Just as a verification this is a duel port injection model correct. Thats the one that looks like a GM throttle body style with two injectors in the front of it. I will check back tomorrow...

bishopk99

Whoa,
Lost a post during the save to favorites page...

anyways...auburn63, thank you so much for your
quick reply.

Yes, my CIVIC is a dual port fuel injection system. And as well since the maintenance from
a non-cert'd honda tech...from my wife's first
occourance is the genisis of my problem this
wiring problem is probably on the money. As
all of this happened at the same time. Living so
close to a "cheaper labor evironment has its
disadvantages"

Please let me know the last info and I can
assist the tech's at my honda dealership with
the diagnosis.

BTW, for all the honda voyers...I have driven in
young guys cars doing "wheeleeeeees" off the line
in the fastest cars in Southern California...

Absolutely amazing web site with such technical
support that I am lost for words.....

92 octane keeps it tame...at least for know...
(always put 92 in the 88 civic.....) and

Can wait till the extra money comes in.....to
make my CIVIC right.

Thanks and waiting for your reply..........

Great site...Recommended it to 3 honda owners
today at work.

Kev
Bishopk99@yahoo.com

auburn63

Ok there is a Honda bulletin #91-031 which covers rough idle and or erratic idle problems. This could be a cause of your problem.All 88-91 civics with 1.5 liter dual point injection THRU vin:
1hged3...ml011574(sedan)
2hged6...mh512869(hatchback)
Jhmed3...ms031565(sedan)
and some others but yours should be within that vin range being that it is an 88.
It refers to a bad ground for the throttle angle sensor.To repair it you remove the existing wire and install a new one that goes to ground at the hold down bracket for the wire harness.Part number for the wire is 32105-PM5-315 ask for the bulletin for installation instructions. This should be cheap enpugh to try so start there. If it doesnt fix well we will have to try something else..Also you want to make sure your coolant is full and bled of air.Should see a bleeder valve up fromt by hose..Good luck

legalese

I have a '93 Civic LX with 110,000 miles. Want to
keep it until student loans paid off, and Acura CL
goes below MSRP. I noticed that in the past
month, my speedometer has been acting erratically. It occasionally jumps all over the map. This happens at various times, speeds, and length of driving. I notice nothing different with the way the car responds, except that it seems to be jumpy when in cruise control when this happens--which makes me immediately turn off the cruise control. The only major problem in this car's history is that I had to replace the distributor a year and a half ago. Otherwise, I've been pleased with the performance and reliability. Any thoughts on what the problem could be would be greatly appreciated.
Nothing worse than walking into a mechanic's shop
and saying "my car's broken" -- cha-ching!

auburn63

It sounds like the speedometer is going bad. The other thing to check would be the condition of your speedo cable but if it is not noisy then it is probably still good.If it acts up regurarly then you could also check the odometer and see if it is acurate while the speedometer is erratic.If it is they use the same sensor and cable so then it would definitly be the speedometer head.Good luck

caprirooster

Hey Auburn,

What is the machine that all Honda dealers use to check balancing of the tires? I know it is a Hunter but not the ones you typically find at NTB but more like a high speed balancer??

BTW, my vibration still exists. I have tried to get NTB to allow me to swap the tire but to no avail. According to the Honda dealer, my balance is fine and according to the folks at NTB, the rims are out of round (purchased January 00). I am at a lost since I hate the vibration but I am also broke that I can't afford to pay for all 4 Michelin's Energy MXV4 Plus tires while tossing out the old Yokohama's (only 10,000 miles plus since I bought it).

So what do you think my options are at this point?? The car drives straight and vibrate like crazy. Dealer/s (two of them) say it is the tire and not the rim and I have seen NTB put the rim without the tire on the balancer and it does wobble and is out of round. (Sigh)

Anyhow, thanks for all your input and patience with me.

ultra

If anyone lives in the Denver area and are looking to buy any sort of Honda, stay away from Planet Honda. My story: My wife and I test drove a CRV from Planet Honda. This was the first time we drove one. We made it very clear to the salesperson that we were not interested in buying that day, but were looking to do something in about 3 weeks. Everything went fine until we were almost back to the dealership. The salesperson asked us why we wouldn't buy that day. We said we were waiting for our tax refund so that we could put down a larger downpayment. He said we should lease instead of purchase. I informed him that we keep our vehicles more than a few years. This pressure from him kept up even after we returned to the dealership. He even asked us after we told him "no" several times if he should get the CRV all cleaned up for us to take delivery that day! We just walked away. That night we emailed the dealership our experience with this salesperson b/c we had talked to someone different several months before and had a totally opposite experience. The dealer's response was to have the internet salespeople contact us, who never addressed the problem we encountered, but were very eager to sell us a vehicle. We were contacted 3 different times by the internet salespeople.

There are several other dealers in the Denver area who do not use high pressure sales tactics. We purchased our CRV from Fisher Honda in Boulder. Ask for Suzi Smith or Craig Sweeney.