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Comments
1. I have not tried Zaino yet, but I have the check written and the envelope stamped, I just forgot to mail it today.
2. I have a garage full of waxes and other products I've tried. My favorite so far, Mother's 3 step and an orbital buffer. Now for anybody who's tried to wax a full size truck with a hard tonneau knows, it's a lot of damn work. The mothers process is time intensive and very labor intensive. The results are quite nice though.
3. In reading SBW, I noticed a couple of comments about swirl marks and hazing. In reading the Zaino site, everybody seems to have glowing remarks. I don't remember seeing a post in either site where somebody had a bad experience with Zaino.
4. Now just assume that if a SBW user and a Zaino user were given a clean garage and as much time as needed to clean and polish similar cars and they both came out the same, If the Zaino were easier to apply and lasted longer, it'd be an obvious decision. It also seems as if alot of the SBW users complain about getting swirl marks. Maybe it's the wax, maybe it's the method.
Now, being as I am new to everybody here, I think the arguement as I've seen it so far comes down to this.... The Zaino vs SBW is almost like a Chevy vs Ford or an America vs foreign arguement. There is no clear winner as each consumer has different needs and different tastes. So your winner might be my hated loser etc.
I look forward to trying Zaino on my new vehicle and if I am unimpressed, I will switch back to my previous brands.
In the end, all we're talking about here is car wax guys, I mean come on!!!!!!!
The problem and opportunity with a Porter Cable is the relative skill of the operator. It goes without saying that neither Zaino or any SBW protects against improper operation of a "buffer."
To me the use of wax/polish etc etc. vs Zaino comes down to a few things based on a few assumptions. Bang for the buck and effort and ability to last for up to 6 mo. or longer.
If you have a buffer, use it with a good polish and/or glaze to get rid of all your existing scratches and swirl marks, and then 'Z' your car. Claying is also advised, at least once. The ultra smooth finish after polishing and claying will make the application of Z go much faster and easier. I used Eagle One's "Wet Look" on my car as a glaze, and then clayed it for a super slick surface. A year later, it is still really smooth and slick. Z5 will take care of any small marks you may pick up. As long as you wash your car yourself instead of going to a dreaded car wash, you can stay swirl free, and have a glass-like finish.
As you know, a buffer is not recommended with Zaino, once you have removed the swirl marks/defects.(establish your baseline).
If you have established your baseline with other than Z products, it is a good idea to do a wash with Dawn. (blue liguid dishwashing detergent) That washing will serve as a chemically neutral surface so the Z-1 doesn't have to work as hard.
When I was using the normal waxes, I had lots of swirls. And even with Zaino, I'd get those spider webs. In my case, I had used a less than clean towel to remove residue. The dirt in the towel must have contained some hard particals such as metal rust. Such dirt will scratch any paint, clear coat, wax, or polymer. The trick seems to be to keep the newly coated surface free of dust and to use really clean 100% cotton towels made in USA. When using Zaino, please wash and dry your car first taking care to dry it with a clean towel without using much pressure. Don't buff it dry. And then use Z6 prior to another layer of Z2. The Z6 will help remove residual dust and lay down a smooth surface. And then apply the Z2 with an applicator pre-moistened with Z6. Use very light overlapping strokes. When dry, again use very light strokes with a very clean towel to remove the residue.
But if you've managed to collect some swirls (spider webs, etc.), the best cure is Z5 which really will fill in those swirls while laying down a good layer of Z. It really worked for me.
The real structure is that it is against the law (EPA) to apply paint that is more durable. The net effect is that we are stuck with less durable paint.
The reference paint in 1978 was a paint called Dupont Imron? (car paint, JET BLACK to boot) I had two 80 cu in aluminium dive tanks painted with this product and after 30 dives (salt, clear water and intense sun, in FL) not even so much as a swirl mark. (applying that today is probably a felony)
Normally, if I intend to use Z-2, I apply it after a wash. Then, occasionally but not always, I apply the Z-6. Ideally, I apply Z-6 several days after a wash and INSTEAD of a wash -- if the car is very clean and if I first remove any dust layer (NOT DIRT), using a California Duster or a clean towel (100% cotton, of course!). That way I retain the clean surface and prolong the "just waxed" look. My biggest problem is the frequent separate wheel wash to remove the build up of brake dust.
If I'm not mistaken, Sal recommends the Z-6 after the Z-2 or Z-5, but please set me straight if I'm wrong.
What problems did Zaino give you that these other superior products did not?
Name some of these better products...I've tried just about everything I can find. So far Zaino has been the best. Easy on/off, superior protection, and excellent mirror like finish(unlike wax, which gives a greasy feel and does not last thru a rainstorm or high temperature).
I am always looking for a better product though. I won't continue to use a product if I(you) can show me something better. I am not compensated for using Zaino. It is not exactly cheap, but it is well worth the price. Name some better products to try. I will try anything within my budget up to $80 per can of wax.
Has anyone clayed again after the original treatment - say a year later?
I know several people who clay their vehicles every spring.
The only time I clay is if something won't wash off. First thing I try is full strength Z7 applied to the area with a cotton swab. I let it sit for a couple hours and often the stuff just washes off. If that does not work I will re-clay the affected areas.
Actually, I used a slightly different procedure last year. It was a bad winter for my car with all the road salts, etc. 'Had a whole collection of swirls and spider webs. So after a really complete washing (Z7), I clayed the car again and then washed it a second time. I then applied Z1 and then Z5. The results were dramatic. I then waited about 24 hours (the next day), and used Z6. And finally, I applied a coat of Z2. After drying and residue removal, I even used my Z6 again. It was worth it!
Again, there's no need for Z6 after washing and before using Z2. My mistake. What I'll do sometimes is wash and dry the car and then use Z6 when I'm not applying Z2. And about claying each spring: my car a lot of road / brake dust and road salts during the winter. Even after a good wash when the car looks absolutely clean, there will be some embedded tiny brake dust particals present. Although my car "looked" clean after washing last spring, my clay bar picked up a lot of dust. Talk about junk on your wheels, right now my car looks like a bar of calicium chloride and my wheels are completely covered with that junk. Oh for a warm day!
I'm into my sixth decade and tend to drive cars that handle well (as opposed to those that: 1) look like they might handle well or 2) other people think handle well), so how the car looks isn't the priority it might otherwise be. I often go six months without even rinsing the car off. That's less likely for me now that rinsing off pays better dividends.
Point being, if anyone is still reading this forum who doesn't already have an opinion of Zaino, don't get the impression that only zealots use it. I'm not and I do. It works.
My kids were laughing at me today when I took the Stang out and it came back with mud spatters! It's been in the garage for a week becuase of all the snow and crap on the roads but I HAD to take it out! Can't wait for a nice day for a wash and
Z!! I'll be glad when things settle down here:-)
I do not like heavy handed tactics.
I think the community can usually "police" itself.
I like spirited discussions.
BUT... sometimes oxygen and acetylene find their way into the same room and you know what happens.
So. Enjoy your nice clean board and let's keep it clean.
BTW, I DO NOT want all of you posting: "I'll be good, it was just the other guy..." Just get over it and stay ON TOPIC.
Thanks for all the recent posts that were on-topic.
bnormann
Host
Maintenance & Repair Message Board
Specifically, the detail wax and gloss enhancer.
An additional hint: tell your dealer NOT to apply any wax or "hand glaze" to your car. They tend to do that sort of thing. In fact, the first time you wash the new car prior to claying (and using Zaino), I'd use liquid Dawn in water to wash the car. That will remove any wax residue and road oils. After claying and applying Zaino, only use Z7 as your car wash.
Don't get me wrong, I'm just guessing from the info I've read here and at the Zaino site.
And I don't believe the detail wax is abrasive. I could be wrong.
TC
I do know that ALL of the Zaino products were developed by Sal Zaino. Z6 (Gloss Enhancer) is a case in point. The 3M "Detail Wax" is a wax, not a polymer like Zaino's Z2. And because Zaino's Z6 must work with Z2, it had to be developed separately just for Z2. Many companies which produce wax and detailing products have their own gloss enhancer products. Its a natural that car owners would wish to freshen up the finish.
Again, because the Zaino product line is based on polymer chemistry, these products were separately developed to work together and are unique.
I have another newbie-ish question for the experienced clayers. Why do you dry the car off before and after claying? Isn't it just going to get wet again anyway when you lube it up? Plus the 2nd dawn wash (followed by dry) should take care of any water spots correct?
My impression was the following:
Dawn wash, rinse, clay (lube sections before claying), rinse, dawn wash, rinse, dry thoroughly, Z1, Z2. Note that the only time I dry is after the 2nd dawn wash. This way I dont use up as many towels for drying and I get the whole process done faster. Please shoot me down with the reasons why this isn't advisable. Thanx in advance for any responses.
But I tend to believe that using clay on a new black or dark colored car would pay dividends. On a light color or white, claying may be an overkill for us lazies. I really liked Post # 1176 by cdnpinhead, although most of us who post here are probably a bit less laid back about car care.
"Claying" is a very effective way of removing such dust. Try claying a (quote) "Clean" just washed car that has been exposed to the highway elements for a year. You'll see an interesting collection of 'stuff' in the clay. By claying once a year just before re-applying Z1/Z2, you'll leave a really clean surface without any embedded rusting dust. This should make it easier for Z2 to protect your clear coat. And your Z2 layer should last a bit longer too.
Didn't clay the roof before laying down and I can feel the residue underneath. Lookin' at it, you can't tell. But feel it, baby. Feeeel it.
Just do small sections at a time and use lots of lubricant. I like Meguiars Final Inspection since I'm a stockholder in Meguiars eventhough they are a family-owned company and are not traded publicly.
pjyoung - Some people don't have the self-control to stay away.
Some think all I use is Meguiars and that I'm a sell out to them. In reality I only use one of their products currently; Final Inspection.
And apologizin' goes both ways. I'm man enough.....
Maybe I'm just not fussy enough, but in my own case I still think claying is an overkill. My car gets limited use and is garaged every night. I also keep it very clean with regular Z-7 washes.
By the same token, I have no doubt that claying works wonders in removing embedded dirt and grime and that claying dark colored paint pays great dividends.
My ML is garaged and washed (usually) every 1-2 weeks. I did clay it when I put my first coat of Zaino on, but my question is how often should I be claying? The hood seems to be in the worst shape. The paint is still slick and smooth, but I can feel tiny bumps on it here and there.
Chris