Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

xwesx · October 20

andres3 said:
[....]Reasonable doubt.

Will be interesting how he testifies how near children were present. He might feel if they are present on Earth that makes it reasonable to issue citations. Hopefully the judge has a more reasonable interpretation.

All true. You are leaving it in the hands of a single person, though (the judge), so reasonable doubt doesn't technically come into play.

tjc78 · October 20

🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

jmonroe1 · October 20

@andres3, you’re a LOT more optimistic about your situation than I would be if I were you. When it comes to children’s safety, you’ll have a hard time getting any leniency from a judge/magistrate even if he/she was your cousin.

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to obey the posted speed limit than trying to negotiate your case. Whatever time you may have saved by going over the speed limit will be more than lost by going to court.

jmonroe

andres3 · October 20

jmonroe1 said:
@andres3, you’re a LOT more optimistic about your situation than I would be if I were you. When it comes to children’s safety, you’ll have a hard time getting any leniency from a judge/magistrate even if he/she was your cousin.

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to obey the posted speed limit than trying to negotiate your case. Whatever time you may have saved by going over the speed limit will be more than lost by going to court.

jmonroe

But I was obeying ultimately, as I believe I slowed down to 25, just obeying what the sign says rather than its arbitrary location. I know on a normal speed limit sign it's fairly presumed it takes effect at the location of the sign, but not when it says "when children are present". That if A then B caveat changes things drastically in my view.

andres3 · October 20

jmonroe1 said:
@andres3, you’re a LOT more optimistic about your situation than I would be if I were you. When it comes to children’s safety, you’ll have a hard time getting any leniency from a judge/magistrate even if he/she was your cousin.

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to obey the posted speed limit than trying to negotiate your case. Whatever time you may have saved by going over the speed limit will be more than lost by going to court.

jmonroe

Also remember it's not just about time saved, its about safety and less hazard exposure which multiplies exponentially over time. Less likely to be rear-ended or crashed into by not dawdling around.

Also, if you save 15 seconds a day that's multiplied by 365 days a year. Now I know you don't work every day but it's just an example of the multiplier effect. It's significant over time, and you don't get pulled over and face court battles every year (or at least so far, I've been able to avoid annual court battles).

andres3 · October 20

xwesx said:

andres3 said:
[....]Reasonable doubt.

Will be interesting how he testifies how near children were present. He might feel if they are present on Earth that makes it reasonable to issue citations. Hopefully the judge has a more reasonable interpretation.
All true. You are leaving it in the hands of a single person, though (the judge), so reasonable doubt doesn't technically come into play.

If I could have a jury trial I would. Of course that would likely mean raising the stakes.... @roadburner DA facing against you.... possible jail time. In exchange though you get an appointed defense attorney and a jury trial. Most likely if you hired a lawyer, there would be very little chance this goes to court I think. Half the fine no points and call it a day.

When CA and other States took away some due process for infraction traffic court cases it seems they wanted to keep as much resemblance of due process as possible and give you things like (no potential jail time and no DA showing up against you) in exchange for the negotiation. However, in recent decades, it seems they want to take away due process and give the people NOTHING in exchange. Well.... maybe not nothing.... they reduce the "video camera" tickets to typically pointless violations that cost you a fraction of what a real citation would. However, if a points involved, then it's close to nothing as the fine doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

explorerx4 · October 20

All I can think of is.

https://youtu.be/RvV3nn_de2k

snakeweasel · October 20

andres3 said:

Also remember it's not just about time saved, its about safety and less hazard exposure which multiplies exponentially over time. Less likely to be rear-ended or crashed into by not dawdling around.

Oh I would love to see a peer reviewed study that supports that.

jmonroe1 · October 20

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:
@andres3, you’re a LOT more optimistic about your situation than I would be if I were you. When it comes to children’s safety, you’ll have a hard time getting any leniency from a judge/magistrate even if he/she was your cousin.

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to obey the posted speed limit than trying to negotiate your case. Whatever time you may have saved by going over the speed limit will be more than lost by going to court.

jmonroe
Also remember it's not just about time saved, its about safety and less hazard exposure which multiplies exponentially over time. Less likely to be rear-ended or crashed into by not dawdling around.

Also, if you save 15 seconds a day that's multiplied by 365 days a year. Now I know you don't work every day but it's just an example of the multiplier effect. It's significant over time, and you don't get pulled over and face court battles every year (or at least so far, I've been able to avoid annual court battles).

————————————————-
Let’s keep it simple. I’m sure you, like everyone else, wastes more than 15 seconds a day doing normal daily activities. No one works to a time-clock that rigorous.

jmonroe

stickguy · October 20

I had a dentist appointment this morning and had to drive past an elementary school to get there, during arrival time (right at the end of it) so the school zone signs were flashing (meaning reduced speed limit). So I went through at 25 (well, maybe 28) and it is amazingly hard to go that slow.

explorerx4 · October 20

@stickguy,
In Ohio the school speed limit is 20 mph when school zone lights are flashing.
Quite a few times I've seen police radar set up along road going by the schools.

jmonroe1 · October 20

stickguy said:
I had a dentist appointment this morning and had to drive past an elementary school to get there, during arrival time (right at the end of it) so the school zone signs were flashing (meaning reduced speed limit). So I went through at 25 (well, maybe 28) and it is amazingly hard to go that slow.

————————————————
Just try to imagine how hard that must be for @andres3.

jmonroe

fintail · October 20

andres3 said:

xwesx said:
You should consider, perhaps, equipping your vehicle with a camera so you have undeniable proof of the reasonableness of your driving in this scenarios. It is hard to refute that in court, whereas the rest of it is all just stories.
That's a great idea. I used to run a dash cam, got lazy and procrastinating and having "mount" stickiness issues has delayed my reinstall on the newer to me vehicles.

Of course while I do feel traffic Officers will routinely perjure themselves in Court over minor infractions, they won't usually do so in a blatant manner.

For example: He might go off his notes on the ticket and state traffic was moderate to heavy under questioning. When cross-examined if there was traffic besides me in the left lane, he'll probably answer truthfully that he doesn't remember that level of detail. Therefore, my testimony doesn't get refuted by the officer and doesn't directly contradict them. Both can be true. Details matter. Showing the officer doesn't remember any details in Court but only knows what notes he took or put on the back of the citation is good for the defendant's case in my view. Reasonable doubt.

Will be interesting how he testifies how near children were present. He might feel if they are present on Earth that makes it reasonable to issue citations. Hopefully the judge has a more reasonable interpretation.

Use genuine 3M VHB tape, it seems to work best. Be sure to get genuine rather than knockoff, which does exist. You definitely need a dashcam as these things seem to find you.

WA has the flashing 20 school zone limit in many places too - I think my mom got nabbed once but talked her way out of it because of course. I don't risk it in a flashing zone - there are also some local parks with a 20 zone, but I am not sure how much they are enforced (as so much else is not post-covid).

stickguy · October 20

I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.

kyfdx · October 21

Stick shifts make it easier to keep your speed low. I never get out of 2nd, leaving my neighborhood

tjc78 · October 21

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.

Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.

graphicguy · October 21

explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
In Ohio the school speed limit is 20 mph when school zone lights are flashing.
Quite a few times I've seen police radar set up along road going by the schools.

Yeah...they are pretty strict about school zone speed limits around here!

oldfarmer50 · October 21

stickguy said:
I had a dentist appointment this morning and had to drive past an elementary school to get there, during arrival time (right at the end of it) so the school zone signs were flashing (meaning reduced speed limit). So I went through at 25 (well, maybe 28) and it is amazingly hard to go that slow.

Take a cruise through Albany where they reduced the speed limit to 25 throughout the whole city (this being the latest fad to harass car owners). But be careful of the speed cameras near the high school where the limit goes down to 20 and you get a ticket for 21.

oldfarmer50 · October 21

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.

They’d probably sell the data to the police and insurance companies.

ab348 · October 21

News today that GM is shutting down production of its Brightdrop electric van at its CAMI plant in Ingersoll, Ontario due to poor sales. They apparently are stacked up like cordwood in holding lots. Apparently they sold 7500 of them so far, while Ford and Rivian have each sold about 4 times as many.

graphicguy · October 21

sda said:
A2> @graphicguy said:

Miami was a University before Florida was even a state. It's Miami University....the first one.....the cradle of coaches...previous home of Ara Parseghian, Bo Schembechler, John Harbaugh, Dick Crum, Sean McVay, Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, and a host of others....THE IVY LEAGUE school of the MidWest. The Home of the McGuffey Reader. It just happens to be in Ohio!

Our motto..."To accomplish without being conspicuous"!

It is also the home to the founding chapter of Beta Theta Pi. It is a beautiful campus.

It is indeed. Many, many fond memories there. And, going back for alumni get togethers I'm reminded of it all the time. I enjoy just going to Oxford. The drive is beautiful also.

stickguy · October 21

@oldfarmer50 said:
Take a cruise through Albany where they reduced the speed limit to 25 throughout the whole city (this being the latest fad to harass car owners). But be careful of the speed cameras near the high school where the limit goes down to 20 and you get a ticket for 21.

Our son lives off western near 85. I avoid western at all costs for that reason.

andres3 · October 21

graphicguy said:

explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
In Ohio the school speed limit is 20 mph when school zone lights are flashing.
Quite a few times I've seen police radar set up along road going by the schools.
Yeah...they are pretty strict about school zone speed limits around here!

Speaking from experience?

andres3 · October 21

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
I had a dentist appointment this morning and had to drive past an elementary school to get there, during arrival time (right at the end of it) so the school zone signs were flashing (meaning reduced speed limit). So I went through at 25 (well, maybe 28) and it is amazingly hard to go that slow.
Take a cruise through Albany where they reduced the speed limit to 25 throughout the whole city (this being the latest fad to harass car owners). But be careful of the speed cameras near the high school where the limit goes down to 20 and you get a ticket for 21.

Speaking from experience too?

jmonroe1 · October 21

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.

————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe

kyfdx · October 21

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.
————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe

They also use the camera for autobraking, collision avoidance. Maybe, even rain sensing. I wouldn't want to cover it up

kyfdx · October 21

Upgraded to Windows 11 on my desktop. Haven't really noticed

jmonroe1 · October 21

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.
————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe
They also use the camera for autobraking, collision avoidance. Maybe, even rain sensing. I wouldn't want to cover it up

————————————————
I’ve been doing my own braking for years with no problems. Also avoiding collisions and I know how to turn on my wipers too.

I don’t need nannies to help me drive. I learned how to do that many years ago. I’ve heard stories where folks have hit someone telling their insurance company, “my car is supposed to make sure I don’t have any accidents, is this going to make my rate go up”?

And we share the road with these nitwits. No wonder our insurance rates are what they are.

jmonroe

andres3 · October 21

jmonroe1 said:

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.
————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe
They also use the camera for autobraking, collision avoidance. Maybe, even rain sensing. I wouldn't want to cover it up
————————————————
I’ve been doing my own braking for years with no problems. Also avoiding collisions and I know how to turn on my wipers too.

I don’t need nannies to help me drive. I learned how to do that many years ago. I’ve heard stories where folks have hit someone telling their insurance company, “my car is supposed to make sure I don’t have any accidents, is this going to make my rate go up”?

And we share the road with these nitwits. No wonder our insurance rates are what they are.

jmonroe

Sadly I must report that a child in my kid's very own school and 6th grade level (middle schools are grade 6-8 here) was killed by a car driver yesterday about 3-4 blocks from the school across a 4-lane arterial with a 40 MPH speed limit. Initial reports are that speed and alcohol were not factors. They hit 3 kids, killing 1 and hospitalizing the other 2. It's too early to draw conclusions but I've concluded the driver is at a minimum 51% at-fault here; likely distracted. The road is too flat and too straight for excuses. Many are blaming the City for not adding a cross walk painted lines or flashing lights (apparently 3-4 blocks is too far way from the school) so they don't get a 25 MPH speed limit when children are present either, not that 25 MPH would have made any difference for a driver capable of ramming 3 kids at 7:30 in the morning IMHO.

There's a signal light 1/4 mile to the left and 1/4 mile to the right, but kids cross at this intersection because it leads straight to the school and who wants to add 1/2 miles to their walk (though that's what my recommendation orders would be to kids trying to cross). There's stop signs only on 2 sides of the 4-way intersection. There is yellow warning "pedestrian crossing" and "intersection "+" signs that were ignored obviously. People said the sun can be in your eyes driving west in the morning (too fast for conditions then; as reduced vision from sunlight is a condition). I don't see how this driver shouldn't be locked up for a very long time short of these kids running out at the last second w/o looking.

I don't think adding stop signs is the answer. A pedestrian bridge is the right solution. Flashing lights from active pedestrian foot traffic is another.

We let my daughter start walking herself to and from school this year, but only because we are on the same street as the school 2 blocks away. As a parent I don't think I would have let her cross a 4-lane arterial alone yet only being in 6th grade. Still... unfortunate and so extremely tragic hitting so close to home.

tjc78 · October 21

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.
————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe
They also use the camera for autobraking, collision avoidance. Maybe, even rain sensing. I wouldn't want to cover it up

Correct, it is used for many other functions including the surround view camera and the feature that shows your live path while using the GPS. The video recording is a data/cloud service that I can see Mercedes charging for.

xwesx · October 21

Condolences, @andres3 . Such a tragedy, yet one I am sure all of our communities have experienced at once time or another. People always want to find something to blame that would have reduced the risk (read: Eliminated it), but the sad fact is that negligence was likely involved with at least one, and likely both, parties, and we cannot eliminate risk until we eliminate careless actions (in other words, never).

kyfdx · October 21

jmonroe1 said:

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.
————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe
They also use the camera for autobraking, collision avoidance. Maybe, even rain sensing. I wouldn't want to cover it up
————————————————
I’ve been doing my own braking for years with no problems. Also avoiding collisions and I know how to turn on my wipers too.

I don’t need nannies to help me drive. I learned how to do that many years ago. I’ve heard stories where folks have hit someone telling their insurance company, “my car is supposed to make sure I don’t have any accidents, is this going to make my rate go up”?

And we share the road with these nitwits. No wonder our insurance rates are what they are.

jmonroe

Well, we weren't talking about your car..

oldfarmer50 · October 21

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
I had a dentist appointment this morning and had to drive past an elementary school to get there, during arrival time (right at the end of it) so the school zone signs were flashing (meaning reduced speed limit). So I went through at 25 (well, maybe 28) and it is amazingly hard to go that slow.
Take a cruise through Albany where they reduced the speed limit to 25 throughout the whole city (this being the latest fad to harass car owners). But be careful of the speed cameras near the high school where the limit goes down to 20 and you get a ticket for 21.
Speaking from experience too?

Nope, not me but my son who drives ride share got three warning tickets during the early grace period. Normally I don’t go into the city except when I’m delivering cars to our branch office but tomorrow I’m going to the Kia dealer for a recall.

This is recall week for me. I just got the Mustang back from a backup camera recall. It was fine and all they did was wrap some more tape around the wires to prevent chafeing. I also got the can of fix a flat replaced as you’re supposed to do every five years. Amazing that last time I did that it cost $65. This time it was about $100. Inflation.

While there I noticed that the shop labor rate was $245/hr. WOW!

ab348 · October 21

kyfdx said:
Upgraded to Windows 11 on my desktop. Haven't really noticed

It’s still early. Give it time, it’ll bite you soon enough.

explorerx4 · October 21

@oldfarmer50,
Inflation, was that doulbe enterndre?

jmonroe1 · October 21

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
I'm surprised more cars don't offer a camera as a built in option these days. I would not mind having that. I can't see myself ever putting a stand alone one in. Of course, the manufacturer would probably save all your video just because they can.
Our Mercedes has one. You have to pay for the service to enable recording.
————————————————
They probably have it but you have to pay for it even though you bought the system. Sounds fair to me. If you don’t use it, put tape over the lens. You’ll probably get a “see dealer” message. Just for fun, try that.

jmonroe
They also use the camera for autobraking, collision avoidance. Maybe, even rain sensing. I wouldn't want to cover it up
————————————————
I’ve been doing my own braking for years with no problems. Also avoiding collisions and I know how to turn on my wipers too.

I don’t need nannies to help me drive. I learned how to do that many years ago. I’ve heard stories where folks have hit someone telling their insurance company, “my car is supposed to make sure I don’t have any accidents, is this going to make my rate go up”?

And we share the road with these nitwits. No wonder our insurance rates are what they are.

jmonroe
Well, we weren't talking about your car..

————————————————
And you better not have been, either.

jmonroe

xwesx · October 21

As this is likely to be our last snow-free day in Fairbanks this year, I thought I would share the lovely light on the Alaska Range before sunset…

This is the view from my office window. 😎

nyccarguy · October 21

@xwesx - WOW! Absolutely stunning!

@andres3 - I’m so sorry to hear this devastating news. That poor family!

tjc78 · October 22

@xwesx That is a great picture.

We have been having some great sunsets here in the Northeast. Here is one from last night heading down I95 about 3 miles from center city Philly which what you see to the left of the sun.

tjc78 · October 22

In case anyone is bored... here is my little vacation report on another forum.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3085154-quick-review-symphony-1012-through-1019/#comment-69394960

snakeweasel · October 22

@tjc78 said:
In case anyone is bored... here is my little vacation report on another forum.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3085154-quick-review-symphony-1012-through-1019/#comment-69394960

Looks like you had a great time. We did an Alaskan cruise in August. We loved it. I finally made it to Sitka.

nyccarguy · October 22

tjc78 said:
In case anyone is bored... here is my little vacation report on another forum.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3085154-quick-review-symphony-1012-through-1019/#comment-69394960

Looks like you had a blast considering the weather delays and port cancellations. Did you opt for the "drink package?" I've never been on a cruise, but always wonder if they are worth it. My wife and I are very light drinkers.

graphicguy · October 22

snakeweasel said:

@tjc78 said:

In case anyone is bored... here is my little vacation report on another forum.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3085154-quick-review-symphony-1012-through-1019/#comment-69394960

Looks like you had a great time. We did an Alaskan cruise in August. We loved it. I finally made it to Sitka.

Went over there to take a look. NICE REVIEW.

nyccarguy · October 22

Gorgeous sunset photo @tjc78. I was able to take a few dusk photos walking by the beach before my son’s hockey game this past Saturday night.

corvette · October 22

@nyccarguy - I've never been on a cruise, but I've always heard the drink packages aren't worth it unless you're planning on having at least a few drinks per day. Plus, I think most cruise lines allow you to bring a small amount of alcohol on board, or at least they used to, which might be all you'd want.

Fun fact, the steamboats in NOLA that offer two hour brunch/lunch/dinner cruises offer "drink packages" for the two hour cruise, which is the most NOLA thing ever. I think the package includes three drinks.

oldfarmer50 · October 22

tjc78 said:
In case anyone is bored... here is my little vacation report on another forum.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3085154-quick-review-symphony-1012-through-1019/#comment-69394960

That site is pop-up city but I’m glad you had a good time.

laurasdada · October 22

Nice review @tjc78. I've cruised thrice, enjoyed them all. Not much of a drinker, so have never purchased the drink package. The last Royal Caribbean cruise, the show was "Hairspray" and it was excellent!

We left the port of Miami in a bit of foul weather, but it was short lived. Our eastern Caribbean cruise turned to western due to weather activity in the scheduled region. So, instead of San Juan, PR and St. Maarten, we did Cozumel/Tulum. Excellent guide on the Tulum tour, full of Mayan knowledge and pride. I joked that the ruins looked a lot like my condo after a visit/stay from my son.

I started a trend on board, as I intended to bankrupt the ship of soft-serve ice cream, after a couple of basic cones I decided to up the ante. Went to a buffet, grabbed a 16 or 20 oz hard plastic cup and spoon and proceeded to fill it with the frozen gold. People noticed and, after being dubbed a genius, imitated.

When we went to Coco Cay, there was a "guard" at the ice cream machine who was handing out (too small) cones. I wonder if that was a new policy?

jmonroe1 · October 22

xwesx said:
As this is likely to be our last snow-free day in Fairbanks this year, I thought I would share the lovely light on the Alaska Range before sunset…

This is the view from my office window. 😎

————————————————
Great view but you gotta get those wires outa there.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · October 22

tjc78 said:
@xwesx That is a great picture.

We have been having some great sunsets here in the Northeast. Here is one from last night heading down I95 about 3 miles from center city Philly which what you see to the left of the sun.

————————————————-
Nice pic but you should have snapped it after you passed the billboard.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · October 22

nyccarguy said:
Gorgeous sunset photo @tjc78. I was able to take a few dusk photos walking by the beach before my son’s hockey game this past Saturday night.

————————————————
Now those are nice pics. Nothing to ruin the view.

jmonroe

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