Lease Questions - Ask Here

ct_yank · February 2003

Carman,
Thanks for the quick response to my post # 5613.
The Maxima that I am looking at is the 2003 SE model for 3yr/36000

Thanks again

nlkleinberg · February 2003

I'm bleary eyed from trying to "learn" leasing and have two small questions that I'd love to have the answers to. Given their nature I don't even know where to BEGIN to search for this information (hope they're not dumb!)

1. What happens if a signed lease agreement contains inconsistent information? That is, suppose a Cap Cost, term, MF, residual, monthly payment, various fees, etc. are clearly specified in the lease contract but something isn't figured correctly; e.g. if the cap cost, mf, residual etc. are taken as correct then the payment has been incorrectly calculated or, of course, vice versa? What "rules"?

2. I love the warranties that offer free scheduled maintenance but worry that dealers sometimes do the "minimum" necessary. If I lease a vehicle (and don't plan on buying it back) whose responsibility is this? That is, as long as I bring it to the dealer when scheduled (and have not ignored clear problems in between) can I be liable for problems at lease end? Other than wear and tear, if I return it with an oil leak, noise, etc., as long as I've had it in for the appropriate service (routine and for these specific problems) would I be responsible for any necessary repairs?

Thanks in advance for any info or pointers to resources.

=NLK=

mgobluejoe · February 2003

Hello Carman,

Well, about 30 days and counting left on the 2000 Taurus and back it goes (yeah!). Anyway, we're looking at an Accord LX/EX auto for a 36 month lease at 15000 miles a year with 0 down and only start-up fees. Thus far, I've gotten prices of (including 6% tax) $317 and $306 for LX models. And, $340 and $356 for an EX. I was wondering what the residuals and MF does Honda Financial use? These prices seem decent to me (the Taurus is $330 and now most are throwing out upwards of $340 for an '03) but I've only seen 3 year/36000 mile leases advertised.

Thanks,
Mgobluejoe

icdchess · February 2003

Car_man..
You mentioned special finance rates from Honda starting this weekend. Do you know if it's 2.99% on the CR-V. Looking to make a deal this evening unless it's less. That's what my dealer said but I do not automatically believe them ever,.
Steve

njcarguy · February 2003

Car_man,

Do you know the Feb lease rates (residual % and Money Factor) for a 2003 Lexus ES 300 with Navigation for 3yr, 12K miles/year & 39month/12K per year. I am in NJ if that matters. Also do you know if Lexus charges a bank or acquisition fee for this model?

Thank you for your help.

NJCarguy

rivertown · February 2003

In most leases, the lessor is a bank or the manufacturer's financial arm, right? Yet, most leases are arranged or sold by the dealership, right?

My question is - Does the dealership receive a commission from the bank or manufacturer's financial company for arranging or 'selling' the lease?

anonymousposts · February 2003

river: When we were thinking about leasing our Accord the dealer told us there was an extra kickback for every lease that they did. Not sure if that is standard across the board or not though.

alexi1 · February 2003

Hello Car_man. I was wondering if you could tell me the residuals and money factors for Honda CR-V front wheel drive lease based on 36/39months and 10,000 miles per year. Thanks very much for your help.

jpatrick4 · February 2003

Hi Car_man,

Patrick again. Does Ford have new numbers for 2003 Ford Focus ZX5. Need numbers for Lease for 2/3/4 years @ 12,000 miles. For Zip Code 14072. It looks like the changed the Cash Back on Lease from $1000 to $2000 (ford.com)? Did the lease factors change? Is there any Cash Back for Lease loyalty? And are the RV the same? Thanks Jason.

Patrick

rivertown · February 2003

It sort of made sense that there would be some sort of sales fee for selling a lease.

Do you have any idea how it's calculated?

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

You're welcome, ct_yank. Thanks for the additional information on the Maxima. If you were to lease a 2003 Nissan Maxima SE through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00204 and 52%, respectively. In addition to this lease program, Nissan is also providing $500 lease cash on the 2003 Maxima that may be used to reduce its capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi NLK. Leasing can be confusing. However, if you read a lot of the articles and posts that are available here on Edmunds.com you should be able to figure out the basics rather quickly. Your first question is a toughie. If some sort of inconsistency between what your lease contract says and how your monthly lease payment was actually calculated is discovered I suppose that your contract would be void and that you would either have to return to the dealership that you got your car or truck from to sign another contract or return your vehicle.

In answer to your second question, many free scheduled maintenance programs that manufacturers offer consumers were actually initiated because of leasing. Let me explain. Many manufacturers' captive finance companies were leasing vehicles to consumers and finding that lessees were not performing enough routine scheduled maintenance on them. As a result many of the vehicles that they were getting back off-lease were in rough shape. In response to this, they instituted free scheduled maintenance programs. These programs both serve as an enticement for consumers to purchase their vehicles and also assure them that the leased vehicles that they get back will have been properly maintained. If you lease a vehicle that comes with free scheduled maintenance, you almost certainly will not be required to perform any additional maintenance to it. In fact as long as consumers change the oil in their leased vehicles on a semi-regular basis, banks almost never give them a hard time for not having performed any other sort of maintenance on them, provided the vehicle does not have any major problems when it is brought back. You should be able to have the specific example that you mentioned, an oil leak, repaired through your vehicle's factory warranty. If you have this sort of problem, make sure to have it addressed before your vehicle's warranty expires.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi Mgobluejoe. Let's take a look at Honda's current lease program for you. If you were to lease a 2003 Honda Accord EX, without navigation through American Honda Finance Corp. for for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, I believe that their current base lease money factor and residual value should be .00230 and 59%, respectively. Their numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2003 Accord LX 4-cylinder would be .00230 and 58%. The LX V6 residual value for this term and mileage would be 57%. If you provide me with the full MSRPs and purchase prices for the deals that you have been quoted, I would more than happy to calculate a few sample lease payments for you. I even could work a few payments for you using Edmunds.com True Market Value numbers instead if you would like. Let me know. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hey Steve. In your neck of the woods from February 13th through the 18th, Honda is offering consumers who qualify for their top credit tier 2.99% special financing for up to 60 months on all models, including the 2003 CR-V. If you qualify for their top tier, make sure that they give you the 2.99% rate. Dealers are allowed to mark up these new rates by I believe as much as 2% to add additional profit to deals.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi NJCarguy. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Lexus ES 300 through Lexus Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00180 and 56%, respectively. A 39 month lease of this car would have the exact same factor, but its residual value would fall to 54%. Lexus Financial Services charges a lease acquisition fee of $600 on all of its leases.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Greetings alexi1. I would be more than happy to help you out. If you were to lease a 2003 Honda CR-V through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years their base lease money factor should be .00230. This truck's 3 year 12,000 miles per residual values should be 58% for the 2003 CR-V 2WD, 62% for the 2003 CR-V EX 4WD, and 61% for the 2003 CR-V LX 4WD. I am not exactly sure what AHFC's 10,000 miles per year residual values for this truck should be, bit if they offer 10k leases their residual values are most likely around 1% higher than the ones that I just posted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hey Patrick. you were to lease a 2003 Ford Focus ZX5 in your area through Ford Motor Credit this month for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease rate and residual value should be 6.50% and 53%, respectively. Their numbers for an otherwise identical 3 year lease should be 6.25% and 46% and for a 48 month lease should be 7.0% and 38%. If you are going to use this information to calculate sample lease payments, remember to convert these percentages into approximate lease money factors before doing so. In addition to lease lease rates, Ford is also providing $1,000 lease cash that may be used to reduce the capitalized cost for leased vehicles. As far as loyalty cash goes, Ford is providing all current Ford Motor Credit lessees with $750 owner loyalty cash on the 2003 Focus if they lease one through Ford Motor Credit for 2 or 3 years.

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jpatrick4 · February 2003

Thanks, Car_man,
But, Ford dot com have $2000 cash back w/ lease in Zip Code 14072. I even tried to plug in another Zip Code to see if the $ amount would change and it did, ZipCode 22332 came up $1000.
And my dealer told me only $500 lease loyalty? Who should I believe?

msp_guy · February 2003

Hello CarMan,
I was looking through old posts and saw that you recently pegged the Audi rates for an A4 3.0 Quattro at .00165/56% for 36mos and 12k. On Saturday I was quoted .00235/54% for a 36mo or 39mo w/ 12k. They told me that the rates were just changed on Friday 2/14. Are they trying to pull a fast one or can you verify that the rates have changed (in Minnesota)?

Also - can rates be significantly different in different regions of the country? If so, what would be the major disadvantage of ordering from somewhere else and drop-shipped locally (other than a PDI fee at the local dealer).. ?

Thanks!

div2 · February 2003

I've heard that BMW FS has some attractive subsidized lease rates for the Three and Five Series sedans-in particular the 525i and 325i. Do you have any information? Thanks in advance!

spencer13 · February 2003

Hi CarMan -

Could you provide the money factor and residuals on a 3 year/36,000 mile lease for the Highlander. We are considering both the V6 4x2 Limited and the V6 4x2 SR5 if that makes a difference. And we live in the Phoenix area.

Thanks very much!

nlkleinberg · February 2003

Hi Carman:

At the risk of being redundant, thanks for taking the time to reply.

The reason I asked the first question was that I swore I read a post on this board in which a buyer said he had signed a lease contract that specified a Cap Cost, term, MF, fees, etc. as well as a payment. After driving off he found that that monthly payment was higher than the properly calculated one FROM THE DATA SPECIFIED IN THE LEASE AGREEMENT and was told he was obligated for the payment "agreed to". My thought was he could say he was obligated instead for the Cap Cost, fees, MF, term he had "agreed to". The only logical thing under those circumstances, I had thought, was for the lease to be void. I was wondering why he was obligated for the payment.

The second question was asked because I was envisioning a problem (e.g. oil leak) extant at the time of lease termination. My feeling was that, as long as I had the scheduled maintenance performed, this was the leasing company's problem, not mine (i.e. I wouldn't have to see a proper repair through before I would be allowed to return the vehicle).

=NLK=

alexi1 · February 2003

Hello Car_man. Thank you very much for the Honda CR-V info. Would you be able to also tell me the residuals and money factors for Honda Element EX 2WD based on 36/39months and 10,000 miles per year. As Always, thank you very much for your help.

fastpaul · February 2003

Car man: I am reading with interest the postings re: leases. I also read the Edmunds lease calculator and tried to apply it to my existing "special" lease on my now 18 month-old Audi A6 2.7T. The problem is extracting the money factor from the numbers on the lease. I came up with .00174. My pertinent numbers are: MSRP-$45250; cash $2000; Capitalized cost-$43460; residual-$22172; depreciation-$20129. To get the base monthly payment(48mos X $530/mo) they added a "rent" charge of $5323 to depreciation...Could you run these #s. I'd like to know if "special" means the same as "hosed"! Thanks in advance for the help

onlyonce · February 2003

Car Man: I was quoted the following for a VW Passat GLX lease 48 months / 12,000 miles.

MSRP 29,325
49% residual
27,929 purchase price
.00195 money factor
$387 / month
$339 doc fee and $56 new tag included in lease payment
$575 acquisition fee and first payment due at signing
$350 disposition fee

Can you please offer your input on the following questions?
1. When I asked for a quote if the mileage increased to 15,000 miles per year - the money factor was increased. Is that normal?

2. I did a search for passat in this forum and you mention something about $500 dealer cash. Is that a kickback to the dealer - or is that to me as the buyer?

3. If I drop the lease down to 42 months/52,000 miles - would the money factor be better? (I seem to recall seeing a previous post somewhere indicating that VW Credit was offering a great rate on leases up to 42 months.)

Sorry for all of the info and requests. I've been trying to get this info from the dealer (who has otherwise been pleasant to deal with) and I having trouble getting clear answers. You are the absolute best resource for someone who just wants to understand the variables before parting with his money.

Best Regards,

JJ

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hmmmmm, jpatrick4, from your zip code I thought that you were in the New York area. The incentives that I provided you with informaiton on were good in the New York region through a couple of days ago. It certainly is possible that they have revised it over the past day or so. As one might expect, with the blizzard that we had yesterday I am a little out of the loop right now. Let me do some digging for you today (literally and figuratively

) and see what I come up with. Please drop me a reminder and I will let you know what I have been able to find out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi msp_guy. I was in the loop on Friday, before we had all of this snow, and I did not hear anything about Audi revising their February lease program. I am almost positive that I would have heard if they did something like that. Not to mention the fact that even though manufacturers occasionally enhanced their lease programs prior to their scheduled termination dates, they almost never make an unscheduled change to their programs that would make the lease money factors worse. I will double check today, but it definitely sounds as though your dealer is marking up Audi Financial Services' base lease money factors to add additional profit to your deal, and then lying about it to cover up what they have done.

Audi used to have significant regional variation in their lease program, but over the past several months they have had one consistent national lease program for most of their models. The only disadvantage of purchasing a vehicle from another dealer and having it shipped to you would be the potential hostility that you might face when you bring your car in to your local dealer for service. Given how profitable service departments are, I highly doubt that they would turn away your business completely, but they might not give you preferential treatment in terms of scheduling.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi div2. Yes, BMW does have a fairly attractive lease program on the 325i and 525i right now. If you were to lease a 2003 BMW 325i or 525i through BMW Financial Services prior to the end of the month, you can take advantage of their special lease money factor of .00150 for leases of up to 42 months in length.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi spencer13. I haven't seen Toyota's exact lease program for the Phoenix area, but I can tell you that every single area that I have seen their lease program for has a special lease money factor of .00170 for up to 36 months for consumers who qualify for their top credit tier. Their national residual values for 36 month, 12,000 miles per year leases of the 2003 Highlander 2WD and Highlander Limited 2WD should be 60% and 57%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hey nlkleinberg. I am not a lawyer, but I have to agree with you that if a consumer's lease agreement contained different data than was used to calculate their monthly lease payment their entire deal would indeed probably be void. I remember the post that you are referring to and if we are thinking about the same one, I have a sneaking suspicion that the individual who made it was lying about the entire situation in an effort to get a rise out of some of our community members.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

You're welcome, alexi1. I am always glad to help. Here is the rest of the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Honda Element EX 2WD through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00230 and 59%, respectively. Their 39 month numbers for an otherwise identical lease should be .00230 and 57%, respectively. I do not know if AHFC offers 10,000 miles per year leases, but if they do I suspect that their residual values for one would likely be about 1% higher than their 12,000 miles per year numbers.

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spencer13 · February 2003

Hi CarMan -

Thank you for your help in providing the info on the Highlander. I have a follow up question that I'm hoping you can help with.

Yesterday I spoke to a salesman at the Toyota dealer and he told me about a special lease they have on the SR5 highlander. Specifically he said it is a 39 month lease with a money factor of .000210 and a residual of 42%. I challenged him on the low residual, but he didn't really have an answer for me. Just wondered if you've seen anything like this from Toyota before? We're not sure what to think of it! A low money factor does not seem like such a good deal if they are going to lower the residual so much.

By the way, I did verify the MF three times with him as it seems quite low!

Thanks again!

div2 · February 2003

Thanks!

msp_guy · February 2003

Car Man,
So if I'm using .00165/56% for 36mos/12k as my basis, are those the correct numbers for the A4 3.0 Quattro? Would they be the same for 39mos/12k, or would the MF increase or the residual drop? Also - what are Audi's acquisition and termination fees & are they ever negotiable (like for exclusion!).

BTW - mind if I ask how you have access to all this info for ALL makes & models? You're a huge help, but I fear that I may have to prove to the dealer why I feel their MF/residual is incorrect. And I'd like to say more than "this really nice forum host on Edmunds told me so." Know what I mean? Clearly this information is not intended to be broadcast to the public, otherwise it would be readily available to everyone. That, unfortunately, puts us at a disadvantage when trying to prove the dealer is marking it up because they'll just question our sources.

Thanks again! Just trying to close this deal on acceptable terms.

rivertown · February 2003

I hope Car_Man has a better answer for you, but if he doesn't . . . consider this.
Just mentioning the correct numbers should be enough to get an honest salesguy back on track. If you have to go further than that, it seems to me that you're trying to 'force' honesty. How much of that are you prepared to do?
You could always shop the lease with other dealers. Shopping can be easy with the net; you don't have to get locked into some weird negotiation; and you might find a dealer where 'games' aren't on the agenda.

rxke · February 2003

Hi Car Man

Could you please tell me the money factor and residual value for an A4 1.8 quattro sedan in NY.
10,000 and 12,000 miles per year for 36 or 39 months.

Thank you

msp_guy · February 2003

I agree. I'm starting to scout other dealers outside of my city in case I need to do this. There are 2 Audi dealerships in my town and they're both owned by the same company. Ideally, I'd like to secure the deal locally so I don't get the run around later when I need to service the vehicle and also would like to get the free service loaners. Otherwise, if I buy out of town there's no telling what kind of treatment I'll get from the local shop.

But I think it goes w/out saying that if I feel I'm getting treated unfairly during the sale, there's little chance of me buying from that dealer (regardless of what local perks may be available).

I'm confident that if I have the accurate numbers in hand when I go to make the deal, the dealer's true character will show. I'm hoping for the best & thanks for your feedback.

magpie64 · February 2003

Looking for residual and m/f for 2003 Trailblazer Ext.For 36 and 48 month lease.Also any incentives at this time in the NY area.Getting crazy prices from the dealers.Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi fastpaul. The lease money factor that you came up with in your calculations sounds as though it is very close to what Audi was offering on the A6 2.7T a year or so ago. It is a very good lease money factor. Looking at the numbers that you provided me with, I have a feeling that the factor used to calculate your monthly payment is even lower than the one that you came up with. I think that you did fine. Enjoy your car

.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hello JJ. Don't worry about all of the questions. I am glad to help. Vehicles' lease money factors have absolutely nothing to do with their mileage allowance. I have only seen a few rare cases where vehicles' mileage had any impact on their money factors and all of them were awhile ago AND Volkswagen was never a company that did this. I have a feeling that your dealer is trying to pull a fast one on you.

The $500 dealer cash that Volkswagen is currently providing on Passats sold through Volkswagen Credit's special financing and lease programs goes directly to the dealer to use as they please. They are not obligated to share this cash with you, but it should significantly enhance your bargaining position. You should not have any problem getting a 2003 Passat for very close to if not right at dealer invoice right now.

The Passat's lease money factors would decrease if you were to lower your lease term to 39 months from the current 48 months that you are interested in.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

You're welcome, spencer13. The person who you spoke with was either misinformed or not being very straightforward with you. It is impossible for Toyota Financial Services to have a 39 month residual value as low as 42% on any 2003 Highlander. Given the fact that Toyota is providing lease money factor support on the Highlander in most of its regions, it does not surprise me that they have attractive money factors on it in your area, but I am not sure what to think about this whole residual value situation. Individual dealerships usually do not have any authority to alter banks' base lease residual values so it is difficult to say why they quoted you such a low resid. Perhaps you should comparison shop at another Toyota dealership in your area to see what sort of lease parameters they quote you. This will give you a good way to find out exactly what is going on and also provide you with another reference point as far as pricing goes.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

No problem, div2.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

The 36 month 12k numbers that you are using are right on the money, msp_guy. Audi Financial Services' 39 month lease money factor would be exactly the same, but their residual value would drop 2%. Audi's lease acquisition fee is currently $575. Unfortunately, this fee is not negotiable unless Audi is running some sort of special promotion waiving it and they are not right now. I believe that they have a $350 lease termination, or disposition, fee. I don't know if that figure is negotiable, but I suspect that it very well may be if you were to get another Audi when your lease is up.

I am not aware of any source that allows the general public to look up lease money factor and residual value data. Sure dealers may try to cast doubt upon the information that I have provided to you, but I can assure you that it is definitely correct. As long as you are persistent in your efforts to get them to use Audi's base lease money factor and acquisition fee you should be successful. Remember, the ball is in your court. You can always threaten to go to another Audi dealer if there are any in your area or tell them if they don't stop playing games with you that you will lease a completely different make alltogether.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Greetings rxke. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Audi A4 1.8T Sedan with quattro through Audi Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00175 and 60%, respectively. Their 39 month 12,000 miles per year lease money factor should be exactly the same, but their residual value would fall to 58%. If you were to lease this car with only 10,000 miles per year, the aforementioned residual values would be 1% higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Good morning, magpie64. Let's take a look at this truck's lease program. If you were to lease a 2003 Chevrolet Trailblazer EXT through General Motors Acceptance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease rate and residual value should be 3.5% and 51%, respectively. Their 4 year numbers for an otherwise identical lease should be 3.5% and 43%. When calculating a lease payment for this truck, remember to convert these interest rates into approximate lease money factors by dividing them by 2400.

As a side note, General Motors is currently running a dealer volume bonus program on most of its SUVs right now. This program can provide dealers who qualify with up to $1,000 per truck, but they are much more likely to get $500 per unit. You can use this piece of information to your advantage when negotiating the price of your leased Trailblazer.

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msp_guy · February 2003

Thanks, Car Man!

Time to sharpen my pencil. I'll let you know how things work out.

rivertown · February 2003

Lease acquisition fees are characterized as 'non-negotiable', and I'm sure that's true as far as the paperwork is concerned. But . . .
If the lease acquisition fee includes a commission/fee/whatever paid to the dealer for arranging the lease, isn't the dealer able to lower the price of the car by that amount in order to make a deal? So, I'm asking if the lease acquisiton fee doesn't give the dealer at least a little more negotiating room.

vinyljunkie · February 2003

I need the residual rates for the following models:

LX 4cyl
LX V6
EX with leather 4cyl
EX V6

Is there anyone here that can help me?

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

You're welcome, msp_guy. Good luck in your negotiations.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Rivertown, dealerships make very little money from banks on leases that they do not mark up the lease money factor or acquisition fee on. Leases are more of a tool that dealers use to sell vehicles rather than a profit center in situations where they have not marked anything up. If there is no lease cash available on a vehicle, captive finance companies only pay dealers a small amount, like a hundred or two, for leases. This definitely is nothing that would significantly enhance one's bargaining position.

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