Lease Questions - Ask Here

tgp1810 · March 2003

Car_Man posted this a few posts up:

"If you were to lease a 2003 Lincoln Aviator Premium AWD through Ford Motor Credit this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease rate and residual value should be 4.50% and 47%, respectively in most parts of the country. I would be aware of any consumer or dealer cash incentives that are available on this truck, however unfortunately there are not any at this time."

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Hi djocks. Don't worry about the repeat post. Lexus has some very attractive deals on the 2003 RX 300 right now. I would be more than happy to assess the deal that you have been quoted for you, but I am going to need some more information from you first. Ideally, it would be great if you could provide me with this truck's full MSRP and selling price. If you are unable to get that specific informaiton for some reason, at least fill me in on what options the truck has and if it is 2WD or 4WD. Remember than consumers are free to negotiate the prices of leased vehicles, just as if they were paying cash for them. It is important to know exactly how much money you are being charged for the vehicle that you are leasing. This information will allow you to see what sort of deal you are getting.

Out of the other vehicles that you are considering, I would say that the Audi allroad and the Volvo XC70 probably have the most attractive lease programs right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Hello howparlaw. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 BMW 325i or 330i through BMW Financial services this month for 3 years with 10,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 62%, respectively.

As far as the Lexus ES 300 goes, if you were to lease one through Lexus Financial Services for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their current base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 56%, respectively. I don't know what their 10,000 miles per year residual value for this car should be, but my guess is that it would be 1% higher than the 12,000 miles per residual value.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

That's great news, aggieque. Congratulations on your new truck. Enjoy!

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Greetings gandl. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Nissan Murano SL FWD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00231 and 55%, respectively.

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nlkleinberg · March 2003

Hi Car_man:

Thanks for your M5 data and the info on the balloon note, I'm going to do some research.

Hate to take advantage of your generosity, but when you get around to it (i.e. your next round), could I have the numbers for:

Jaguar S-Type R, 24 & 30 month, 12,000mi./year + Acquisition/Disposition Fees

Infiniti M-45, 24 & 30 month, 12,000mi./year + Acquisition/Disposition Fees?

Don't ask me how I came to look at the M5 and these two.

Appreciate the info.

=NLK=

djocks · March 2003

Car_man, Thanks for the info. You really do a service in here and I appreciate it.

Here are the conditions of the Lexus Rx300. I do not have the MSRP but it was 4WD, premium package, heated seats, no navigation. He referred to it as the "standard northeast set up."

The original offer is for $1005.00 out of pocket, $499 a month plus tax,title etc....

Questions;

How much more wiggle room do think there is here and if it is possible what would you set as a target monthly? (I know you might not want to include that information.)

I am interested in possibly buying it. Do you think the dealer would be more or less inclined to discount more for a purchase than a lease?

bapples · March 2003

I was quoted $712 per month on a 42 month lease- 12k per month- on an Aviator Premium with both a dvd entertainment and Navigation package.No taxes are in the monthly payment-no money down.Dealer claims he's selling the vehicle 1000 above dealer cost but since I own a GM car there is a 1000 rebate offer.So actually the deal is at cost supposedly.Does 712 sound right given these parameters?He claims an interest rate at 5% and a 47% residual.
Thanks for your help
bapples@aol.com

sprtan · March 2003

Car Man,

I just got back from the Porsche dealer and was quoted the following lease money factors and residuals (15K miles): 36 mo. .0025/55%, 48 mo. .0024/49% through Porsche Financial Services.

My question is do you know if this the retail rate or the "buy rate" money factor? If it is retail, do you have any idea of what the "buy rate" may be?

Maybe it's me, but given current interest rates, as well as, their stated competition (BMW), I thought that both the residual (low) and the money factor (high) seemed off.

If you have already covered this, I apologize in advance.

Thanks.

clpurnell · March 2003

Could you Give me MF and residuals on the following MDX models. for 39,42,48 mo 15k per

MDX Touring
MDX Toring + RES(DVD)

cstabile · March 2003

Just wanted to say Thanks Car_Man. I leased my '03 Passat GLX over the weekend and I am very happy! Your advice as to the pricing was very helpful. And your mf and residuals were spot on. Of course, they tried to play a few games, but when push came to shove, they backed off and agreed with the mf and R% that you provided on this forum.

I truly believe you saved me hundreds and hundreds of dollars (if not more).

Thank you very much!!!

Anyone interested in the specific dollars can find that info on my post of today in the "Passat Pricing" thread.

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

No problem, Squirrel. It's difficult to say when I will be able to get a hold of the Subaru lease program. Generally speaking, the fewer dealerships a manufacturer has, the tougher it is for me to get its incentives information. I have been able to get informaiton for most manufacturers, but some things slip through the cracks from time to time. I can help you out with the Audi information that you are looking for though. If you were to lease a 2003 Audi A4 3.0 Sedan with quattro through Audi Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00165 and 56%, respectively.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

You're welcome, nlkleinberg. Jaguar introduced a lease program on January 24th that was scheduled to run through April 30th. However, I am hearing rumblings that they may have made some revisions to the program that they have initially released. For now I will provide you with info on the program that they published on 1/24. If you were to lease a 2003 Jaguar S-Type 4.2L R through Jaguar Credit this month for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00305 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 30 month lease should be .00305 and 54%. As you can see, Jaguar is not currently providing any lease support on this model, so even if they did enhance their program, it is unlikely that its numbers have changed. As far as fees go, I believe that Jaguar Credit's lease acquisition fee is presently $495 and their disposition fee is something like $395.

I have not seen Infiniti's 24 or 30 month lease program for the 2003 M45, but I can provide you with information on its 3 year numbers. If you were to lease a 2003 Infiniti M45 though Infiniti Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00144 and 54%, respectively. IFS' lease acquisition fee should be around $495 and I believe that they have a $350 disposition fee. I believe that Infiniti has some lease cash available on this model as well.

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jhk_db · March 2003

Car_man: Thanks for your prior response (#5743). I am now dealing with another VW dealer. From the other messages on the board, I see that the money factor for March is still .00140 (and VW is still offering $500 to the dealer). Can you provide me with the residual for a 39 mos lease at 12K (not 15K) miles per year?

Right now, my quote from the VW dealer is $800 out the door and $455/mos (incl. 6% NJ taxes). From what I can tell, I think it's a better deal for them than for me and I'd like to come up with a counter-offer. Thanks.

borg1of2 · March 2003

Hi Car_Man,

I have noticed that when someone asks to see if there lease offer, i.e. $499/Mo, is a good deal, you indicated that you needed to know MSRP of the vehichle. I thought what mattered was the price you negotiated on the car which then becomes the basis for the lease calculation. Is this correct? Does the MSRP in this case matter, or is there something with the difference between MSRP and negotiated price that also plays a factor in determining lease numbers. I have seen internet lease calculators ask for MSRP and then negotiated price, so I guess there is something to this point, but I don't understand what it is?

Your assistance in clarifying this for me woule be appreciated.

kyfdx · March 2003

The residual is always calculated as a percentage of MSRP. Your negotiated price is very important, as the depreciation you pay is the difference between cap cost (negotiated price, plus fees, etc. minus the residual

kyfdx

mfullmer · March 2003

My two cents worth:

Since the Cayenne is a low-volume/high-demand vehicle, I doubt Porsche is going to be giving any special lease incentives/subsidization on it. From what I've seen of their other vehicles, they are usually pretty conservative when it comes to residual. Don't know about the rate though.

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

No problem, djocks. Let's see if we can calculate a sample lease payment on a similar truck for you. In your last post, you mentioned that you are interested in a 2003 Lexus RX 300 4WD with the premium package, heated seats, and no navigation. According to the information that is available here at Edmunds.com a 2003 RX 300 with Two-Level Heated Front Seats and the Premium Plus Value Package w/o Electrochromatic Mirrors should have an MSRP of $38,735 and a dealer invoice price of $34,135. Given the fact that the new RX is due to arrive in showrooms in the not so distant future, let's say that if you shop around you should be able to get this truck for $750 over invoice. You may actually be able to get one for less than that, but we'll be conservative for the purpose of this exercise. OK, so let's say that you were to lease this truck through Lexus Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per. According to my calculations you should have a zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment of right around $441. As far as the money that is due at lease signing goes, you would have to pay this vehicle's first month's payment of $441, a lease security deposit of $450, and an acquisition fee of $600 for a total of $1,491. This should give you a good idea as to what you should be spending to lease this truck.

If you decide to purchase instead of lease, you should be able to negotiate an even better deal price-wise because Lexus is providing dealers with $1,500 dealer cash on 2003 RX 300s right now. This cash can not be used in conjunction with their special lease or financing programs though. If you opt not to lease, but to finance through Lexus instead, you can take advantage of the 3.9% special financing for up to 60 months that they have available right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Hi bapples. Let's work some numbers and see what we come up with. According to the information in your post, you are interested in leasing a 2003 Lincoln Aviator AWD with both the DVD entertainment system and navigation. According to the information that is available here at Edmunds.com, this model has a full MSRP of $49,655 and a dealer invoice price of $45,506. So according to my calculations, if you were able to lease one at dealer invoice through Ford Motor Credit for 42 months with 12,000 miles per year your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be around $636 or so. Keep in mind that Ford's lease program on this truck may vary somewhat by region, but the payment that you were quoted still sounds to me as though it is a little on the high side. You may want to comparison shop at a few other Lincoln dealers in your area to see what sort of quotes they give you to lease a similar model.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Hey sprtan. You certainly are an early adopter, the Cayenne just arrived at dealers this weekend. It certainly sounds as though you are dealing with a straightforward dealership, because the lease money factor and residual value numbers that they quoted you are right on the money. These numbers are from Porsche Credit's base program and they aren't marking them up at all. You are correct in that these lease money factors are nothing to write home about, they are equivalent to 6% and slightly less, but given the fast that the Cayenne is a brand new model and that Porsche hates to provide any sort of incentives whatsoever on its vehicles anyways they aren't surprising.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Clpurnell, here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Acura MDX Touring through American Honda Finance Corp. for 39 months with 15,000 miles per year its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00220 and 57%, respectively. The 48 month 15k numbers for a 2003 Acura MDX Touring should be .00205 and 52%, respectively. The lease money factors for a 2003 MDX Touring with the rear entertainment system should be the same, but I believe that the residual values would be 2% lower.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

That's great, cstabile. Thanks for taking the time to come back and let us know how everything turned out. Congratulations on the new car and ENJOY!

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

You're welcome, jhk_db. You are correct, the lease money factor and dealer cash that I provided in earlier posts are still available on all 2003 Passat models, excluding the GLS 1.8T Sedan. Volkswagen Credit's 39 month, 12,000 miles per year residual value for a 2003 Passat GLX Wagon w/4Motion should be 52% through March 31st.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Hi borg1of2. In order to calculate a lease payment on a particular vehicle, one needs to know its full MSRP, in addition to its selling price. The following link will take you to an explanation on how to calculate lease payments and will show you why this number is necessary: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

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bapples · March 2003

What do you think would be a good lease figure on the Aviator with DVD and Nav.36 months-no money down-with 2750 back to the dealer from Ford and 1000 additional because I own a GM car.These seems to be the current deal.
Thanks again
Bapples@aol.com

ngkiyan · March 2003

Carman,
please post the MF and residual for FX35 rwd. Are they different or lower than the awd?

tgp1810 · March 2003

Carman,
Can you please post the mf and residual for a 2003 Envoy SLT awd.

Thanks,
Travis

sadatx · March 2003

Greetings Car Man,

I've been quoted a monthly payment of $357 for a 2003 Accord (4 cyl w/ automatic) LX. The terms are 36 months, 15 miles a yr, with abt $1500 down. The money factor is .00230 and the residual is 56%. The price of the vehicle is $18,331.00.

Do you think this is fair? I'm in Chicago.

Thanks!

the_heidi · March 2003

Carman,

What are my risks if I buy down the money factor on a BMW lease by using multiple security deposits? Can I lose this money if I total the car or will gap insurance cover this? I can save $50 a month by putting down $5000 in security deposits on a 36 month lease on a 525. This seems like great return on this money as long as I get it back.

Heidi

ifkristen · March 2003

I did my homework, and haggled for .5% over invoice with the dealer on a new Altima 2.5S, base with no options, five speed. This paticular dealership has "advertising costs" (what garbage)

Basically the price works out to Edmunds TMV. I'm getting $500 for my trade (a '95 Galant with 100K and LOTS of really unpleasent issues) The payment calculator is right within a few dollars. NMAC's current quoted money factor is .00345, not .0032, as shown on the Edmunds calculator...

I'm paying TT&L upfront (Texas requires taxes on lease be paid out of pocket, at lease signing) All said and done, I'm out the door with $1500 out of pocket, down one cruddy Mitsubishi and with a new Altima at $270 a month/48months/12K a year. I got them to add on a few other small things because one of their salesmen was very rude to me, and got caught red-handed.

The car is being delivered on Friday, and no papers have been signed. If I've missed something, please let me know!

skobola · March 2003

You should not fear about getting in the multiple security deposits. You should get your money back at the end of the lease, provided that you kept the car to the BMW standards (no bad scratches and such damages, for which you should be penalized anyway). But as long as you pay for all the damages, if any, the sec. deposit should be given back to you. You are also covered with the GAP, which I know very well, as my car was totalled.
I have also found that the return on the sec. deposit is pretty good, especially in the current economy, as lowered lease price gives about 15% return per year.

deejay16 · March 2003

I am interested in leasing a 2003 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro and am not convinced the dealer is giving me any kind of deal.

This is where they are: 39 mo./10,000 mi. lease with $4295 down for $439 a month. Those terms don't seem all that good, especially after they tried to charge me $450 for the standard 16" wheels.

Here is where I would like to be: 39 mo./12,000 mi. lease with $3000 down for $350-$380 a month. Do you think that is unrealistic on my part?

I live in Rhode Island and appreciate any information you can provide me with. Thanks.

ogbuffguy · March 2003

my uncle was thinking of getting a C230 kompressor sports sedan or a C320 sports sedan, what are the rates for them on a 36 month/15k miles a year lease in southern california?? thanks....

footie · March 2003

I know it's a long way from Texas, but the starting point for a price on any Altima at Turnersville Auto (mid NJ) is $400 UNDER invoice. I suspect that they have advertising costs too.

check their website and call the number to sign up for a user ID and password to the 'internet specials'

Good luck

multiplechoice · March 2003

Hi Car_man, thanks again for answering all of these questions on this board. I'm sure all of the "posters" are very grateful for this info. Anyways, I'm helping a friend out, he is interested in a BMW 745Li. What is the MF and residual values for a 36mo. 15K/yr lease? We are in So. Calif.

the_heidi · March 2003

Carman,
Can you tell me how much each additional security deposit effects the money factor an a BMW lease. I suspect that my dealer may be using this opportunity to raise the initial money factor on me. Right now we have a money factor of 0.0015. By placing an additional 9 security deposits we can get the money factor to 0.0008. We are suspicious because this dealer did not want to give us the 0.0015 MF initially. Thanks to your information, we knew that they were trying to mark up this rate. We have heard that each security deposit should buy down the MF by 0.0001. If this is correct, then my dealer is marking up the initial rate to 0.0017 (the initial rate they offered us) before applying the additional security deposits.

Thanks,
Heidi

djocks · March 2003

Car_man,

Thanks for the help. My wife drove the MDX, RX300, All-Road and Murano and decided on the Murano (Surprisingly).

The lease packages were not very good on the Murano. In fact more expensive than the quotes I was getting for Lexus. But after a long day and three different Nissan dealerships I finally heard numbers I was happy with on a purchase.

A black on black leather SL with every option except Nav. for $3000.00 a '97 Accord and $501.74 a month for 60 months and the extended 6 year warranty. A total out of pocket of $39104.40 over 5 years. The biggest factor was the value they were giving us for the Accord. It had 107,000 miles on it and although in great condition was involved in 2 mis-haps. The financing rate was 2.9% which was great. We are very happy with it. I was shocked my wife was so attracted to the styling but it is really is a cool looking car.

Thanks again for the help, ultimately it came down to what my wife really wanted.....doesn't it always?

Djocks

careercarguy · March 2003

I am not familiar with the reduction amount for a multiple security deposit with BMW Financial, but in general if the manufacturer has a subvened lease rate or finance rate the dealer cannot mark it up.

I would simply ask the dealer what the starting money factor is and how much the reduction per additional security deposit is. They should walk you through the process.

It seems improbable (but possible) that a dealer would mark up a money factor by 1/1000 of a point. The difference is negligeable to the dealer.

the_heidi · March 2003

From experience, I have found that many dealers mark up the finance rate from the manufacturer's finance group (thank you car_man) In this instance, the two point markup results in a total value of $500 over the life of the lease. This is not negligible to me or the dealer.

Hankr · March 2003

It seems that lease-residual information would help me in my purchase decision, to project how good-or-bad the depreciation hit varies from one choice to another. But I don't fully-understand residuals.

Question 1
Are residual-percentages applied in lease agreements based on MSRP or negotiated Selling Price? If based on MSRP, then the "real" dollar-cost of depreciation calculation must be adjusted for discounts and rebates.

Question 2
Car_Man, can you kindly provide me with 3-year, 15,000 mile-per-year residual percentages (preferrably not from sources where leases are subsidized) for the following (all 2WD, ManualTX):
Ford Focus SE Wagon
Ford Focus ZX5 Comfort
Suzuki Aerio SX
Toyota Matrix XR
VW Jetta Wagon GL TDI
Mazda Protoge5

Many Thanks

kyfdx · March 2003

are always based on a percentage of MSRP.

kyfdx

kyfdx · March 2003

in order highest to lowest residuals on cars that you listed..(CARMAN can give specifics)

toyota
vw
mazda
ford
suzuki

Hankr · March 2003

... So for a purchaser, the Ford or Suzuki, even with their lower residual percentages, could actually have lower 3-year dollar-value depreciation because they sell at big discounts and rebates and a residual applied to MSRP means nothing on its own.

Thank you; this is just what I wanted to know. Car_Man's residual-percentage specifics will give me the missing data I need to calculate real depreciation costs.

careercarguy · March 2003

I must apologize if you thought I was not taking your post seriously. My point was that in most cases a dealer cannot increase the rate on a subvened rate by the manufacturer. Clearly .0015 is a subvened rate.

You are correct in the fact that a dealer may mark up standard lease rates or finance rates, but if a manufacturer says you get 2.9% APR if your credit score qualifies, the dealer cannot charge you 3.9.

The point to my response is to ask the dealer what the money factor is and have him walk you through the calculation of the multiple security deposit buy down. I am not sure if it is .00075 or .0001 reduction per additional deposit.

Have a great day!

jak001 · March 2003

Carman,the information you provide is great.Thanks.I'm thinking of leasing 2004 Sienna xle Do you have resid value and mf for 36,39, and 48 months 15,ooo per year.Also,I doubt if its out yet but if you have figures on 2004 lexus rx330 let me know.Thanks

ifkristen · March 2003

Today was "THE" absolute day the peweter, non-optioned, manual Altima was supposed to arrive. Guess what? Not even on its way! Some song and dance about some garbage. This was the 2nd or 3rd car they'd promised me, and the 3rd time they hadn't delivered.

I was so disgusted- and uneasy- that I demanded my deposit check back. More song and dance, but I got the check.

Had called a VW dealership about a bid on a Passat. He made his offer: $285 mnth/$1000 trade/$600 additional DP/$1600 TT+L/10K/year, 48 months.

I then went to the nearer dealership (the one in town) that had offered me $300/mnth, 12K/year, same $$$ terms. I told them the competing dealership had told me $285/mnth, 12Kyear, same $$$ above. After much discussion, they agreed, and were able to get me into a car the exact color and way I wanted it (a white Passat GL with gray interior)

Using the edmunds calculator, it would seem that I did allright for myself. Calculator indicates $293.06/mnth (changing TTL to zero, because I paid up front, because Texas requires it upfront. Ug), and I settled out for $285.

Anyone think I missed anything? Regardless, I feel extremly satisfied. It's a little late now, but this is the first time I've ever negotiated a new car, so if I missed something, let me know for next time, and I'll chalk it up to experience!

numeromano · March 2003

Carman,
Maybe you can help clear up some confusion on my end after you gave me the March numbers for a 2003 Aviator AWD Premium on a 36mo_15k per year lease. You said 47% res and 4.5% apr, plus $1,000 conquest cash for a Jeep owner. Edmunds is currently also showing $2,000 marketing support, factory to dealer for this car ($3,000 total). My dealer is only reflecting the $1,000 cash and offering 6.75% apr with 47% res. When I go to the lincoln.com site and use their lease calculator, the apr figures to 6.75%. As you can imagine, the extra 2.25% and no $2,000 moves this lease rate way up. Can you clarify?

For those interested in this car, you might want to check the dealer inventory on the lincoln.com site. FYI, there are over 50 in the Kansas City market and the one I have been looking at has been there since at least early January.

lmm540i · March 2003

Car_Man

You mentioned in an earlier post that the X70 had an attractive current lease program. Could you please let me know the MF, residual and other lease support that is currently available. Thanks.

skobola · March 2003

Heidi, that dealer is trying to pull a fast one on you. Each security deposit should reduce the MF for 0.0001, and you are allowed to do a maximum of 9 security deposits. Careercarguy is wrong by saying that dealer cannot increase rates on a subsidized lease - they can do whatever they want, as long as you agree with it. In other words, they could sell you a lease at a higher rate, which would then not make it a BMW-subsidized lease but something else. It would be in your interest to insist them sticking to the subsidized lease. Currently, BMW FS offers a MF of 0.0015 and residual of 62% for a 3 yr/30k miles lease, and that is the lease that they advertise. I believe that this is a pretty good deal. I just leased my 325i with a MSRP of $30,020 for $361/month including 7% Florida tax, with 9 sec. deposits. The car was discounted to $29,000 but then they added the $725 lease initiation fee, which made that the car was discounted for $295. It was still a good deal, as I had to replace my smashed Bimmer, so I did not have time to play games with them, and the lease came to be about $20 less than what I was paying before for a Bimmer that was $28,220 MSRP.
I hope that you will make a good/fair purchase based on this information. Good luck!

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2003

Hi everyone. As you may have been able to tell, I have been away on vacation for the past several days. I would appreciate it if those of you who still have questions about leasing that you would like to have answered would re-post your questions, thanks and talk to you soon.

Car_man
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