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Maxima 5-speed Problems
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As long as the car fails the neutral test at 2500 rpm, it has not been fixed properly.
I would call this update a "bandaid", but it is definitely not a fix.
Steve
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My observations seem to coincide with the NTB's stated elimination of fuel-cut 1800rpm and under. When rpms are around 1800 or less, I think I'm only feeling drive lash. But above 1800 I still feel the fuel cut, though it isn't as bothersome in that range.
I think I can now live with the somewhat 'fixed' fuel-cut problem, though I believe Nissan could have done better. For example, it's pretty easy to still achieve the fuel-cut in 1st or 2nd gear once I pass 1800 RPM. Because of this, I find myself up-shifting a little sooner to keep the revs low. Not a big deal so far.
A strange thing happened the morning after the NTB was performed. After starting the car cold and driving maybe 800 feet from my house, I experienced 2 severe 'bucks' in 2nd gear (which seemed like fuel-cut only worse). This never happened before and so far hasn't happened again.
On the bright side, the car is more driveable. I find that I can follow a car more closely around a slow turn without worring about the car acting unpredictably. I'm clutching a lot less in stop and go traffic.
I wonder what the other drivers are experiencing after driving the fix for a few days..?
pat
I'm pretty certain that this "fix" is the same one they did on my car.
It looks like Nissan has done nothing of any additional value from January 2000 until now!
Thanks
Mark
Why not dis-connect your "work-around" system, have the Nissan up-date installed in your car and give us your un-biased opinion...and then you can actually A/B the two fixes. I for one would be interested to hear the results. What about us automatic owners, I'm going in for service this week, should I ask about it. On another matter, it has gotten hot out here a few days [with black-outs too], my A/C seems to not get very cold , and it does that slowly, significantly worse then my 98 Avalon or 95 Max. Any comments...Speed you are in S. Fla., what do you think??
Duke
Mine cools just fine, but I do agree that it takes a while before the A/C starts blowing cold air.
I don't want to run the risk of messing up what is now working quite well. However, from the reports that I read, I am reasonably certain that it is the same update that I got many months ago.
Opimax,
I didn't notice that you have a CA model. I've been over and over that issue in my head (and while reading the service manuals), and I do not believe that it should have an appreciable affect on the driveability of your car that is different from non CA models. When are you due for a vist to KC? I might be out of town during the last part of May, but I'll be here before and after that time.
"The Electronic Throttle Control System has the potential for delaying "dethrottling" after releasing the accelerator following sudden, heavy acceleration. I have experienced this situation on four occasions. Lexus calls this a "hesitation," and their current position is that it is simply a characteristic of the car. I would recommend that anyone considering this car delay their purchase until the problem has been corrected."
Looks like even Lexus are having some problems and don't want to admit it. They use a "drive by wire" throttle system, and I know the Max will also be using it for the 3.5 engine so I have doubts that the new Maxima will have better throttle control with that system. I hope the Lexus doesn't have the same fuel cut severity as the Max, as that will rule out a possible contender/replacement for the Max. Things were simpler years ago without all of these fancy electronics.... lol
Dave Z
The IS300 is too small for me. In regard to the "drive by wire" problem, I had heard from a Lexus mechanic that there has been ongoing problems with the GS400 drive by wire system. As I recall, he said it was really "jumpy" and hard to control.
I am very worried that all manufacturers will go to a "drive by wire" system. Things are messed up bad enough already without the computer making even more decisions for us. This might very well mean the final and ultimate demise of manual transmission cars.
Where did you read about the throttle control problems on the IS300?
Due for a trip almost anytime, pick a date and I will verify it and we are on! I want to get the TSB performed soon, before I come out other than that, I'm on the way
Mark
I think two or three people posted about the throttle problems. How was the BMW you test drove? I believe it is also "drive by wire". Did BMW get it right? Maybe I'll have to look at the 330 instead.
On another note, after having the TSB, I have noticed that the car seems to drive smoother in 1st gear. I have not experienced a buck yet in two days. However, I also notice that when I am off the gas and just coasting/creeping in traffic in 1st that the RPM's stay stuck at 1000 RPM instead of about 650-700 which is where they were at before the TSB. Once again the car is "driving itself" and running away with the throttle on you, which is my major gripe. A car should slow down when you release the gas pedal, and not stay at the same engine RPM.
Dave Z
From your description, I had the EXACT same update done to my car 15 months ago!
In regard to the BMW, I actually test drove a 525 manual shifter. I am now left to wonder if the newest 530 model has the same problems as the Maxima. I'll have to go test drive one sometime.
Mike B.
My VR6 is drive by wire and I have no problems. Also, when an engine is drive by wire, a chip from an aftermarket tuner can tune the throttle to the way you want it.
The different P/N is probably necessary to properly calibrate the odometer and speedometer. I know exactly what you mean about the cutting in and out while on cruise control. That is a direct result of excess air entering the engine via the idle control valve.
My life is crazy... just when I think I have my summer planned, everything changes. I'll let you know when I figure out once and for all what my summer schedule looks like.
Kevin, anytime , couple weeks notice
Mark
All I can say is Oh My GOD! I just picked up a 2001 Maxima SE 5-speed. It's gorgeous, black with gray leather (Nissan calls it black), Bose, 4 air bags, etc. I've been driving a 1986 Toyota MR2, stick, of course, for the last 11 years - I still have it, only 109K miles. I've wanted a bigger car for a while and I've test driven dozens of cars over the last several years, finally I settled on the Max. Waiting for the '01 was also a factor, I didn't want the first year... And this is the first (of six) cars that I've purchased new. On paper there is little competition - and few with 5-speeds - and all cost more; 525i, GS300, 9-5, S80.
I can't tell you how disappointed I am with the drive-by-wire, fuel-cut problem. I noticed it when I test drove four different stick Max's, but I figured it was because I was used to the MR2 - which, by the way, still has the original clutch! After all, they all drove the same - it had to be me. But it was strange, I've mostly noticed problems due to the erratic idle/acceleration from first gear. It's hard to take off smoothly. After a few days of trying to adjust my driving style to be smooth, let's just say I'm like ONE with the MR2, I thought I'd look for other complaints. I found you. Devastating. How can this be? I wouldn't have believed that a car like the Max, with a similar engine for so long, could have this problem. But it does.
I have 135 miles on the car after five days and I'm scheduled for the TSB in two days.
With regard to the severity, I do notice all the symptoms mentioned above and well documented by bigk200, but I am quickly learning to control it. It happens to take a lot of the joy of driving stick out of the experience. At this point I hope the TSB at least fixes the 1st gear acceleration problem - I drive in stop and go traffic to work.
In summary, unless this (or another) TSB significantly improves the problems, I'm going to be very sorry I bought this car - even though it's that close to perfect and drives very well between 3000 rpm and full-boil. For 11 years, I had a ball driving the MR2 hard with only scheduled maintenance work, the Max has a lot to live up to.
I'll keep you posted.
Ed A.
P.S. I love the design of the www.nissanmaximaproblems.com web-site.
P.P.S. Either way, we should keep up the pressure until Nissan gets this right. If they sell 5-speeds, they should drive like 5-speeds.
Don't look for any miracles from the TSB... it really doesn't fix the real problem, but it might make first gear a little more liveble.
P.S. The 2000+ Maxima isn't really drive-by-wire because it still has a mechanical cable from the gas pedal to the butterfly. Even so, it behaves as though it is drive-by-wire because a lot of air is being bypassed through the idle control valve.
I am now not so sure that I want to have it done to my Max. I am also curious to see if maximizd or George had it done to their cars. Rich/George still out there?
I have observed that the lurching/fuel cut is still present in 1st gear. However, it now happens at 2000 RPM instead of at 1500 RPM. I also don't like how the car stays at 1000 RPM with your foot off the gas while coasting in traffic in 1st gear. My car used to stay at idle at around 700 RPM under these conditions before the TSB was performed. The only good part of the TSB was to help eliminate the bucking @ 1500 RPM, which is now replaced with the bucking @ 2000 RPM. I find myself in 1st gear at 1500 RPM more often then 2000 RPM, so it makes it somewhat better. However, if this is still felt in higher gears at this engine speed, people with complaints of the fuel cut with the cruise control on might still have problems. I never use my cruise control, so I can't perform that test to see. This TSB is not a "fix" or "cure", but simply a band aid.
Dave Z
Even though I want Nissan to pursue a complete fix, I have to say I'm much happier than before.
Mark
My left front rotor stuck the other day and it caused the car to shake just like an out of balance tire. I haven't decided yet if the rotor is warped... if it is, it is only minimal.
I also noticed the symptom mentioned above of not being able to control the revs as they dropped from 3000 rpm to idle while the car was parked. Although, I'm not sure this "test" directly affected the way I drove.
I never noticed any lurching in any gear at any rpm or speed. Maybe it is the way I drive.
The TSB was performed on my Max this morning. It took one hour including a road test with the mechanic and the service writer. They were both very pleasant. This was the first time the mechanic had done this TSB, although he had done other software updates on other cars.
I have to say, after driving the car for 20 miles in rush hour traffic, it seems fixed.
Every shift since I left has felt like a normal shift - nothing that would make me think something was wrong - in fact, quite smooth.
There used to be excessive vibration as I started out in first, but that is gone too.
Regarding the 3000 rpm test, the tachometer no longer drops like a stone from 2500 to idle, but drops from below 2500 to around 1500 then slowly down to idle. Again, I'm not sure it has affected my driving either way. And, the car still does not lurch or drive by itself in any gear. It drives quite well.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but I think I have discovered another variable that can explain why so many people have differing experiences with their cars. On the TSB, a table lists six different types of Maximas and 28 different "current" ECM P/N's. Essentially, if I'm interpreting this correctly, there is a different "program" for each Maxima variant, i.e., 2000 CA emissions w/small wheels, 2000 CA emissions w/17" wheels, 2000 Federal emissions w/small wheels, etc., AND there are several versions of each program for each car variant. For instance my 2001 Max with 17" wheels had three possible current ECM P/N's, -4Y910, -4Y911 or -4Y912. It happened to have -4Y911. The TSB calls for one of six new ECM's to be applied. For my car the -4Y913 was used. So, the six new software versions released with this TSB bring the total number of ECM's for stick 5th generation Max's up to 34! That may explain the differences that owners experience!
As a side note, it should also demonstrate that Nissan has been working on this issue since the car was released. I won't give them any credit for not persuing it more aggressively and not being any more helpful for those that have been dealing with it for long periods of time.
By the same token, there is no reason to believe they won't keep refining the software.
In summary, I'm satisified with the Maxima, it is gorgeous, luxurious, and now it drives well - and I'm encouraged to see Nissan works on these issues.
Now I'm going to put some miles on this car. If something changes, I'll keep you posted. I recommend the TSB.
Enjoy.
Ed A.
What are the chances that someone could get their hands on that CD with all of the updates? That CD is most certainly the holy grail that we are all looking for.
However, the electronic analysis device that plugs into the car is priced at $4,000... so even if a person had a copy of the CD, it would still require a serious monetary investment.
Naaa, I'm NOT gonna mess with my car, the less those Nissan "mechanics" get their hands on my car, the better. I've always maintained that my car, as witnessed by you and Dave and Jorge, does not exhibit this problem to the extent of causing my driving to be annoying. I have heard of too many horror stories where people try to fix something and end up having more, or different problems afterward. No, I am happy with the way my car drives, even though it may not pass the idle test, I have no problem with the way it responds. As I recall, you car was similar to mine, so I don't know if you want to mess with it either.
Dave, I know your car was behaving differently, so you may want to go for it. I don't enjoy going back to the dealer for service, so unless I really have a bad problem, I'll let it be for now and let someone else be the guinea pig! Good luck to you guys, and if you want to meet again to compare, give me a shout, or email me.
Dave Z
Mark
DC suburbs
opimax, we're in Queens NY, a bit of a drive from DC. Anyone else want to come is welcome.
Mark
Let me know what you all think.
Can someone tell me if the TSB is going to be any help?
Green
I've seen those other guys, we're all pretty slim anyway!
I had the ECU reprogrammed, and it obviously helps in traffic (1st and 2nd gear), there is a lot less bucking. I don't think it helps with smoother launches thogh. Also, the Fuel Cut is still present at certain RPMs. I would say that before the fix the car deserved an F with respect to low speed driveability, now it's maybe a C.
Dave Z
Interested in seeing the comparison report so I'll know whether to have mine done or not. So far it seems positive.
Another subject -- I switched the stock air filter to a K&N last Saturday. Noticed the K&N is half the depth of the paper filters and had two foam adapters to make that fit on the top and bottom of the filter to support it and make sure was a firm fit. Anyone else notice this? It bother anyone that has the K&N installed?
Do the new Maximas come w/ this TSB update?
And what does TSB stand for?
Is this enough of a problem that it would keep you from buying the car if you had the chance to do it over again?
When you do your test drive, concentrate on driving the car like a good citizen... ie. don't drive fast and hard. The "fuel-cut" problem is most noticed when you are just trying to control the engine with tiny amounts of power.
Try driving slow (20 mph) in 2nd or 3rd gear on flat ground. Try maintaining a steady spead on a moderate down hill.
(By moderate, I mean a down hill that hardly requires any enigine power, but you would at least like to match the engine rpm's with the speed of the car. A severe downhill will just kick right into the fuel cut, but a moderate dowhill will probably cause the car to cycle back and forth between too much power and fuel cut.)