Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hi km99cobra. Unfortunately, I do not believe that Nissan is currently running any sort of official early lease termination program. The lease program for the 2003 Nissan Murano, or even the 2004 model which will likely be available when you are in the market, will probably be very different several months from now than it is today. I still would be happy to provide you with the details of its June lease program just to give you an idea of what this model's numbers are currently like. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to tell me what trim level you are interested in, i.e. the SL or SE, and if you need AWD.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Greetings sunnybmw. The dealer cash that BMW is currently providing on some 2003 3-Series and 5-Series models may not be used in conjunction with BMW Financial Services' special financing or lease programs. So, your dealer does not see any of this cash if you were to lease this car through BMW FS. You may find that you are actually able to get a lower lease payment by using the dealer cash to negotiate a lower capitalized cost and then leasing this car through another bank. The good news is that the lease money factor, residual value, and acquisition fee that your dealer quoted you are right on the money. This means that they aren't trying to add any hidden profit to your deal.

I just worked up a sample lease payment for you and according to my calculations, if you were to lease this 2003 BMW 325Ci (MSRP: $34,595 / Cap Cost: $32,250) through BMW FS this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be right around $420.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Howdy jratcliffe (I get sick of saying Hi or Hello all the time

). The S2000 certainly would be a fun car for the summer. Here is the information that you are looking for. According to the most recent information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2003 Honda S2000 through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00210 and 62%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

No problem, Tammyb6. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Thank </>you for taking the time to come back and let us know how everything turned out. Enjoy your new truck!

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jratcliffe · June 2003

Thanks car_man! I'm now engaged in a bit of an internal war:

Mature self: "Your current car is just fine, why do you need a new one? The S2000 has zero cargo room and you'll need a whole 2nd set of tires if you want to drive it on snow."

Inner child: "I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT!"

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Any time, jratcliffe. I know the feeling. My current lease is up at the beginning of '04. Typically, I would be in the market for a coupe, or perhaps even a convertible, with a manual transmission. However my wife can't drive a stick (on a side note, I taught her how and she actually was very good at it. Unfortunately driving one makes her too nervous) so I have to get something with an automatic. And we are starting a family, so I need 4 doors instead of 2. Oh well, there are lots of nice sedans out there. Hmmmmmm, perhaps, a third, sporty car - BAD inner child, BAD!!!!!!

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alanek · June 2003

Bill, How much should I expect to save a month on a 48 Mos,12,000 miles lease on a RX 330 with Performance, Nav and heated seats. (MSRP about 45,500) using The refundable Lexus Multiple security deposit. Also am I still better off with one of the other leasing companys you mentioned. In other words will I get the same rate from them without putting any money down.

Thanks again
Alan

mlattin · June 2003

Due to divorce, I can no longer afford to keep my '02 leased Xterra, the payments are close to $400/ mo and I'm now a single mom. (not to mention the $125 a month it costs me in gas). My payoff as of right now is $21,300 if my "leased vehicle is purchased by a nissan or infiniti dealership" The trade in estimates I've gotten range from 14k to 17k. So, average is around 15.5k. This leaves me $5800 upside down. I would love to be able to suck it up and stick out the remaining 4 years of my lease, but it's just too much.

My question is:

How much will be able to be rolled into a new loan? I'm looking into used cars around the 8k range, and can put about 2k down, for a loan of about 11.8k. Do you all think that a dealership will be able to work with me? Or will they not care and tell me it's my problem? I don't know what else to do.

Thanks,
Megan

mparker8 · June 2003

So as I said before, the dealer quoted me a pre-tax monthly payment of $375. The cap cost I provided you in a previous post had an error on my part. However, I put it back through leaseguide.com and $350.56 and with tax $371.59. I then e-mailed the dealer and asked for the money factor and residual number they used to come up with my quote and if anything was rolled into the lease. He replied: "Despite my reluctance to do so (I don't understand why that information is relavent to your bottom line) your rate factor is 3.5% and the residual is 46%." I then replied: "What I don't understand, is why you would be relutant to send me information that is very relevant to a lease. I have figured out the monthly payments to be ~ $350.56 and with tax ~ $371.59." And now to the part I need your opinion on, he replied "As GM Buypower Manager at Lou LaRiche Chevrolet we utilize a number of differrent criteria to establish a very fair selling policy to out Internet requests. These include a markdown of our available profit when quoting a lease payment. These quidelines are to insure that we are extremely competative in our market.
With that being said our ultimate goal is to satisfy all our customers whenever possible. If I could get my General Manager to approve your purchase without any finance profit would you purchase this vehicle? This would give you a cost of $367.00 a month plus tax, with a total of $389.12 a month. The term is for 36 months. Your cash COD assuming plate transfer would be $514.12. Your total rebates are still $1750.00." This seems better than leasing, and they usually say if it's too good to be true, it probably is. So Car_man, what is your take on this? Is there other questions I should be asking him?

Thanks a lot.

brianu · June 2003

Car_man,

After reading the leasing posts on this board for the last few months, and all that user 1234 posted about purchasing his Honda Civic LX Sedan automatic, I wanted to share my one of my wins from Houston, TX:

6/25/2003
2003 Honda Civic EX Coupe 5-speed Red (Daughters new car)
Term: 36 month / 12,000 miles

MSRP: $17,270
Invoice: $15,824
Sales Price: $14,834
Cap Cost: $14,834 + $550 acquisition fee + $927.13 Sales tax ($16,311.13)

Residual: $9671.20 (55%)
Money factor: 1.44% (.0006)
AHFC acquisition fee: $550
Sales Tax: 6.25% (on entire sales price $927.13 <--- Texas sucks!)

Monthly payment: $204.73
Down 1st month + Title + License: $385.73

I also purchased floor mats + wheel locks for 15% off Hondas MSRP of $89 + $49.95. They had them marked up to $102.50 + $55.95!

I will also receive three free oil + filter changes and the 15,000-mile checkup free.

I feel like I was able to negotiate a great deal thanks to this Web site!

Thanks again Car_man.

kyfdx · June 2003

I think you are misreading his reply... I think he is still talking about a lease.

regards,
kyfdx

mparker8 · June 2003

kyfdx, you know what, I think your right. I have that tendency to read stuff and only read what I want to read, so to speak. Once again, I have e-mailed him again for some clarification. He's extremely efficient in returning my e-mails, so if he hasen't gone home I should hear back from him in about a half hour.

amgrouchy · June 2003

Car Man, thanks for your quick response to my earlier email...you provide an invaluable service to buyers. That said, would the following lease scenario be reasonable in your estimation:

2003 330i performance package w/ various options
Cost of Car $ 41,198.00 (cars direct price w/ options)
Money Factor 0.0120%
Residual 62.000% (10,000 miles)
Tax 8.250%
Term 36.00
Actual Lease $15,655.24
Residual Value $25,542.76
cap reduction $5000

monthly cost $295.98
finance charge $80.09
tax $31.03
total monthly $407.09

Thanks in advance for your help. I plan on placing the order this week if the above calculations are accurate.

Best,

AG.

ncjudge · June 2003

Car_man,
If I can't swing the lease on the convertible, I'm looking at the Linear as a second option. Please give me the residual/money factor on a 9-3 Saab Linear, 5-speed, for 36 months/15k.

Is there any lease money on the Linear for June?

Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hi Megan. I am sorry to say that you are in a tough situation. Fortunately, you are going into this with your eyes open and realize that you are upside down on your current leased vehicle. Many consumers aren't able to grasp the fact that they are upside down on a lease very quickly. The exact amount of negative equity that you will be able roll into a lease or a loan of another vehicle will depend upon several factors, including your credit rating, the rules of the bank that is lending you the money, the cost of your next vehicle, and the amount of money that you are paying for it. Many banks are reluctant to loan much more money than the full MSRPs of vehicles. As a result, consumers are often able to roll the most negative equity into loans on vehicles that they can get substantial discounts on. So for instance, let's say that you are taking out a loan on a new General Motors product that has $4,000 consumer cash available on it. You may be able to roll $4,000 in negative equity + additional negative equity equal to the discount that you receive on this car into your new loan. Again the exact policies on this matter vary from bank to bank though.

Your least expensive option in this situation is to do the best that you can to continue making the payments on your leased Xterra. The longer you hold onto it, the less upside down you will be.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hey mparker8. Let me see if I have this straight, the salesperson who you spoke with said "This would give you a cost of $367.00 a month plus tax, with a total of $389.12 a month. The term is for 36 months. Your cash COD assuming plate transfer would be $514.12." (I assume that he is quoting you a lease payment for this car). Yet, you calculated a monthly lease payment of "$350.56 and with tax $371.59." It looks to me as though the lease that you were quoted is $16.44 per month more than you calculated it should be. Assuming that your calculations are right, I personally don't see how this is a good deal. Have you considered shopping around a little bit? There are tons of GM dealerships out there and the competition for consumers' business is extremely stiff. By comparison shopping a little bit, even by e-mail, you should be able to find out just how low dealers are willing to go on this particular model.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

You're very welcome, brianu. Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your lease with everyone. I hope that your daughter enjoys her new car

.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

I am glad that you enjoy this discussion so much, amgrouchy. You don't seem that grouchy at all

. This car's lease money factor is actually .00120, not 0.012%. Most banks, other than GMAC and Ford Credit, publish lease money factors for vehicles instead of interest rates. These money factors can be converted into approximate interest rate equivalents by multiplying them by 2400. It is difficult for me to evaluate this deal without knowing this car's full MSRP. This is an essential number in lease calculation. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on an identical car for you if you provide me with this number. When I look at your deal, the one thing that jumps out at me is the $5,000 capitalized cost reduction. In my opinion, this is way too much money to put down on a leased vehicle. I say this for two main reasons. One is that if your car is stolen and never recovered or totaled in an accident during your lease term, your insurance company pays off the bank that you are leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. Also, down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So, if you were to put $5,000 down on this car or make no down payment at all, its lease-end price would be exactly the same. If you want to reduce your vehicle's monthly lease payment and have the money to make a down payment, you would be much better off putting down multiple security deposits. BMW Financial Services currently allows consumers to make up to 9 security deposits on leased vehicles, with each additional deposit buying down the lease money factor. If you opt to put down additional deposits on this car, you better do so fast though because BMW is changing their MSD program on July 1st to make it less favorable to consumers.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hi again ncjudge. Here is the latest information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear Sedan through Saab Financial Services Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00110 and 53%, respectively. In addition to this special lease money factor, Saab is providing $1,000 lease cash on this model that may be used to reduce its capitalized cost. This program is only good through June 30th.

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amgrouchy · June 2003

thanks again car man! tell my wife i'm not so grouchy

i would like to order the car asap, however i need to understand the deal a little more clearly.

what would a lease payment look like for a 2003 330i with an MSRP of $42,245 and a negotiated out the door price of $40,000. The term would be 36 months and the mileage either 10 or 12k a year.

i do have approx. 5000 to put down on whichever proves more beneficial, additional security deposits, cap reduction, or combo of both.

what would be a good deal for this package? thanks again, i know i only have a few days to act!

jratcliffe · June 2003

Unless you get a notably better money factor by making the large downpayment, you're probably better off paying $0 down, and tossing the $5k into a savings account, and using it to make part of your monthly payments. You'll at least earn a bit of interest that way.

gteach26 · June 2003

If I may make a suggestion, it seems that based on your calculations you are comfortable paying $370 (tax included) for 36 months with $500 total out of pocket to lease your new vehicle. If this is correct, I would email the dealer and simply flat out tell him: "I'll be able to pick up the vehicle tomorrow if you will be able to lease the vehicle to me at $370 per month including tax, $500 total out of pocket, for 36months 36K miles." Based on what you stated so far, I think this dealer will have no problems accepting this offer. If they do not, then I agree with Carman that another GM dealer will -- that's assuming they do not go even lower! Good luck!

amgrouchy · June 2003

thanks for your reply jratcliffe, it is beginning to seem foolish to plunk down 5k with no return in sight. i am locked in to june rates with my dealer now, so i'll await car_man's calculations.

i am intrigued by saving money with a lowered money factor through multiple security deposits. i'm not sure how far you can push this option.

hopefully i'll stop dreaming and start driving soon!

kyfdx · June 2003

an extra 9 security deposits lowers the money factor by .0009. On the car you are looking at, figure the payments to go down by about $55-60 per month by making 10 security deposits.

regards,
kyfdx

multiplechoice · June 2003

Hi amgrouchy, you can apply up to 9 additional security deposits, each deposit will lower your money factor by .0001--however, come July 1, the program will change to max of 5 security deposits and the MF will decrease by only .00005 per deposit.

carman54 · June 2003

Today I leased one for 39 mos/12K with appearance package with no money down..just first month and tag, title.. payment is 275 plus sales tax.. I am very happy with the deal..Thanks for all the helpful info.

lawman10 · June 2003

Carman I want to thank you for all your help. I lease a 530i and I love it. What a car. I had an x type jaguar before and you can not even compare the 2. I was thinking about how much less my payment would have been if i gave a security deposit but the deal is done and I am driving the car so I guess I will just have to enjoy. Thanks again carman.

brissielocal · June 2003

Hi Carman

Could you give me the lease payment for the above vehicle for a 3 year 15,000 miles per year lease. The MSRP is 25,485 and the negotiated cost is $21,065. I would like to put zero down as per the advise on this board.

JoeSM · June 2003

Hi Carman, I'm trying to decide between a 2003 and a 2004 BMW 330ic on a 36 month, 15k/yr lease. The dealer refuses to give me the money factor and residual on the 2004 without running a credit check, which I would not allow. Do you have this information on the 2004 assuming top tier credit? Also, do you know if the multiple security deposit arrangement applies to the 2004 model? Thanks for your help again.

gene1980 · June 2003

Carman,

Thanks for all the good information .... this board has become addictive! I'm finally going to pull the trigger on a 2003 Lexus GX470 with Navigation, 3rd row seating and rear spoiler. The MSRP is $51025, Cap cost is $48000. I'm looking at a 42 month lease with 15K miles per year. I'm in Northern Virginia, just outside DC. Dealer has quoted me $750/month with $500 security deposit and $600 acquisition fee. The tax will run around $1440, which I'm assuming he did not roll into the lease payment. Can you verify the quote and provide residual and money factor? Also, any thoughts on going with 42 month ... is that too long?

final request ... can you explain the multiple security deposits I've seen talked about here. Are they useful and if so, how do they work?

Thanks again.

normalo · June 2003

Could you please specify what deal you got in the 530? Options, drive offs, montly payment with or without tax, mileage, and for how long?

normalo · June 2003

Carman,

I need the residual on Lexus es300 residual and money factor for 3yr/15K miles. Do you know when the 2004 model will come out? Would it be worth waiting for a better residual?
In regards to the BMW 5 series would it be better to wait until the next month July because they may have better lease deals like money factor or trunk money or is it better to get it this month because the residual might go down more next month?

amgrouchy · June 2003

i couldn't even imagine leasing a car without consulting this board.

would you post the july money factor and residuals on the '03 330i's when it's available?

lisalisa2 · June 2003

hi there, i was wondering if u could help me w/ some numbers. im trying to work on a deal for a '04 330cic MSRP 49,470, but cap cost is 47,470. 36 month 12K year. 64% Res. He gave me a MF of .00275 with payments of 668+tax. thats w/ 1800 out of pocket. does that sound right? also, im having a problem getting the lease approved by bmw, can i have a cosigner from another state help? thanks!

radar10 · June 2003

Hi Car_man, I am new to this site. Have read several postings. You are a great host! Could you please help me with MF and residual on 2003 BMW 325Cic(convertible) and 525I through BMWFS? Am looking for July numbers. Also...are the rebates to dealers continuing into July? My dealer said MACO costs are on his invoice from BMW. Is this true? If so, what is the dealer cost for this? My dealer also said that BMW roles an additional Acquisition fee into the lease pymts. Is $525 the actual cost for this?

Thanks, David T

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

HA

. You're very welcome, amgrouchy. Let's calculate a sample lease payment on the car that you described. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2003 BMW 330i with an MSRP of $42,245 and a selling price of $40,000 through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $475. If you were to do an identical lease of this car with only 10,000 miles per year, the payment would fall to around $463.

As far as the pricing on this car goes, you would probably be better off seeking feedback on it over on the Sedans Message Board, the Smart Shopper Message Board, or by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the new vehicle pricing section of this site.

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roxreps · June 2003

Carman,

How was your weekend? I have an interesting question. I'm about to sign ( I think it's a pretty good deal) a lease on an Audi Allroad 2.7T demo (4000 mi., loaded, for $40,455, MSRP is $47,634). Way back in 96" I leased a VW Jetta. My question is, can I have my security deposit waved by Audi since I leased from VW prior? Is this up to the descretion of the dealer? Does the loyalty issue apply, or am I stretching things a bit?

Also, while we're at it, based on a 39 mo. lease, 15K miles/yr., and a tax rate of 8.5%, what should my monthly lease payments be? Would a 36 month lease be a smarter move being that the residual is higher?

As usual, thanks so very much,
JB

mwertheim · June 2003

Hey Car_man - Do you have the numbers for Lexus for July? I'm looking at the RX330 Premium Plus AWD with Nav and ML, 12K miles per year, for 3 years. If you could quote 4 years too that would be great. Thanks for the awesome information you provide this board.

1234 · June 2003

I looked over your math for the EX Civic lease, the $927.13 Sales tax should not be added to the cap cost. The tax is calculated after you add your depreciation and finance fees. So with a MSRP of $17,270, a cap cost of $15,384 (incl acq fee), MF of .0006 and residual of 55%, your monthly payment would be $178.42, or $189.57 after tax. Carman, if one finds an error in the financial agreement after signing on the dotted line, is it easy to fix?

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Good morning everyone. Before I continued answering your lease questions this morning, I just wanted to make a quick announcement to let you all know that many brands' lease programs are scheduled to expire today, June 30th. As a result, anyone who has questions on a brand with an expiring program will likely be better off stopping back later on this week with a quick reminder for me so that I can provide you all with an idea of what the new July lease programs will be like. In the meantime, I will answer any general lease questions that you all have and also answer specific questions about lease programs that are not scheduled to expire until next week, like General Motors' and Ford's programs. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Congratulations on your new car, carman54. Enjoy!

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Congratulations on the new ride, lawman10! Thanks for taking the time to come back and let us all know how everything turned out. Enjoy

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hi brissielocal. Volkswagen's June lease program is only scheduled to run through today, June 30th. As a result, it probably would be better if I was to wait until VW's July lease program is available before I calculate a sample lease payment on this car for you. Please check back with me towards the end of the week with a quick reminder. I should have been able to take a look at Volkswagen's July program by then and will be more than happy to help you out. Talk to you then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hi JoeSM. I'd be happy to give you an idea of what BMW's current lease program is like. However, its June program is scheduled to expire today, June 30th. Since you will have to use its July program to lease your new car, I suggest that you check back with me in a few days with a quick reminder. That way I will have had an opportunity to take a look at its new July numbers. See you then.

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gene1980 · June 2003

Carman,

I querried you in message #7080 about the Lexus GX 470. I'm trying to finalize the lease today and wonder if you could give me the lease numbers for June. Please refer to message 7080 for the particulars.

thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

I'm glad that you enjoy this message board so much, gene1980. Lexus' June lease program is scheduled to expire today. As a result, you will likely have to use its July program when you lease this truck. I expect to have an idea of what its July program is like by the end of the week. Please feel free to re-post this message then and I will be more than happy to let you know what I have been able to find out. Talk to you in a few days.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Ah ha...you just slipped in with a message while I was answering your other question. OK, let's take a look at Lexus' June lease program for this model. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2003 Lexus GX 470 with Navigation but without the rear entertainment system (MSRP: $51,025 / capitalized cost: $48,000) through Lexus Financial Services this month for 39 months (I have not seen LFS' 42 month numbers) with 39,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $691. The monthly payment for an otherwise identical 48 month lease of this truck should be $640 or so. This truck's 42 month payment should likely be right in between the 39 and 48 month numbers that I just provided you with. I personally prefer 36 to 39 month leases of vehicles. However, given the fact that Lexus' bumper-to-bumper warranty on this model is 4 yr. / 50,000 mi. I really don't have a major problem with leasing one for 42 months.

Multiple security deposits allow consumers to buy down the lease money factor that is used to calculate the interest portion of their monthly lease payment. For each additional security deposit that is made, certain banks will reduce a vehicle's money factor by a certain amount. If you have the cash to make them, MSDs are a much better way to reduce vehicles' monthly lease payments than down payments are, provided that each additional deposit yields enough savings.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hello normalo. The lease programs for both of the models that you are interested in are scheduled to expire today. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what their July programs are like if you check back with me with a quick reminder towards the end of the week. Talk to you then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Hey lisalisa2. The lease money factor that you were quoted is much higher than BMW FS' base lease money factor for this particular model. This may have something to do with your credit score, if you are having difficulty qualifying for BMW's lease program. You should be able to have a friend or relative who lives in another state co-sign your lease, but the exact policies on this matter likely vary from bank to bank.

I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on a 2004 330Ci Conv. for you, but given the fact that BMW's June lease program ends today, it would make sense that we use its new July program instead. I should have had an opportunity to take a look at BMW's July program by the end of the week. Please feel free to check back with me then with a quick reminder and I will calculate a sample payment for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Welcome aboard, David T. Thanks for the compliment

. I haven't seen BMW's July lease program yet. BMW will likely publish it tomorrow and I should have an opportunity to take a look at it a day or so after that. Please check back with me towards the end of the week with a quick reminder and I will fill you in on what I have been able to find out.

BMW's base lease acquisitoin fee is indeed $525. It charges this fee on every single deal and there really is not any way to avoid it.

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