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Audi allroad



  • I've read up on the tires and it sure seems that the Michelin is by far the best tire for our applications. Noted in Mark's comments as well - thanks. I hope they're as good as all the comments say they are - they're not cheap, but not the most expensive - thank goodness.
    Question - why go down in face size and more width vice less width and taller tires ie 235x60x17...obviously 17 can't change. Does the 5mm increase in wall change the computer that much? Conversely, would going down to a 50 from 55 be a problem?
    On to guys tell me no mods are allowed that they would void any warranties and yet Mark says that the stiffer suspension and torsion bar are ok'd, as well as reducing the mm's of the shocks... I sure would like the stiffer torsion to prevent some of that roll that you get setting up a turn.
    Does someone have ground truth on this?

    All ears...
    oh, I just did my first service at 12k, switched to Mobile1 - I love my car even more after coming back from a business trip in a rental. Wow! I just like to sit in it and feel and smell... even my cat likes to sit in it. What a great vehicle.

    Burnin'-off OEM tires Tony
  • I have '03 2.7, automatic - absolutely love the car, but am experiencing slight vibration/wobble in the steering wheel at speeds of 45 mph and above. I have the Pirelli OEM tires, 21k miles. I leased the car used in April w/16k miles - looks like it was an Oct. '02 delivery car and I just started experiencing this vibration with about 20k miles. It does seem to vary based on cargo weight (less vibration w/more weight). Had a balance and rotate done at a local tire shop where I've done business for years - they are going to re-check next week. Having read the forum posts on these tires, my question, probably to Mark: Is there anything other then the tires that could be causing this? In looking back, Post #125, mentions replacement of a Transmission Control Module on earlier models as it relates to a "wobble" problem. I'm working with the tire shop, as they rotate/balance for me at no cost, and at some point I will replace through them with the "right" tires for this car. But, I will go back to the dealer on warranty if this may be related to something else. Thanks for any input.
  • All my fellow allroad forum participants here and all over many of the Audi chat rooms here on the Internet seem to be in mostly unanimous agreement -- it is a tire thing.

    The allroad OEM tires are 225 x 55 x 17" N/S tires (N/S stands for not good for any season) that have been soundly and roundly trashed as being, um, "AWFUL!" I did test drive the allroad with these tires, of course, but now at 20K miles on my 03 allroad have not ever driven one mile with the OE tires mounted.

    My first 19165 miles was on factory wheels -- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S size 245 x 50 x 17; now with aftermarket Audi Rs 6 replica 18" wheels, I am on 245 x 45 x 18" Z rated UHP tires.

    I do not experience the wobble.

    However -- if you have the factory standard or sized OEM tires w/21K miles on them, I would urge you to get new tires and have them balanced at the Audi dealer and have, simultaneously an all wheel alingment. Then, inflate the front 245 x 50 x 17" tires to 38 lbs and the rears to 36 lbs.

    This, should take care of your problem.

    And, to repeat, the tires should be mounted and balanced and the all wheel alignment at the dealer, not a tire store!

    Good luck. You will be amazed at the change in your allroad SPORTS SEDAN.
  • As many of you know, the northeast got hit with a lot of snow this past weekend. We had about 18 inches at my house in northern NJ. My mom has an A4 3.0Q got stuck in the driveway when we tried moving it so that we could clear around it. I wanted to know if anyone has any experiences with the Allroad in deep snow (1 foot plus)? How much extra ground clearance does the air suspension provide?

    My dad has an ML320 and was considering an A6 3.0, but after this storm feels he needs an SUV. I really want him to get an Audi, but the allroad looks like his only possible choice now. I appreciate any info anyone can provide.
  • Even those SUV's on stilts can get stuck in deep snow. It is rare for an Audi quattro to get stuck -- I would assume that it had OE tires, not dedicated snows, hmmm?

    The allroad used to list one of its qualities as a top level ground clearance equal to a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I dunno if this has been surpassed since 2002 by the Jeeps. Even if there are higher ground clearances on some SUV's (the Touareg will "go to 11" with the optional susension, for example, as will the Cayenne), the allroad is tough to beat the other 361 days of the year when that much snow on the highways is not an issue.

    I have never gotten my allroad stuck -- and I don't plow our driveway, period. And, my wife doesn't get her TT stuck, as long as I take a couple of runs with the allroad first.

    This is not an anti SUV rant, the allroad is quite capable when compared with many other truck based SUV's but it is not a substitute for a full-on truck based SUV. But the sales training my dealer went through put the allroad up against Land Rover, Range Rover, Jeep, Lexus, Infinity and Acura MDX -- and of course it was compared with the Mercedes M class and the BMW X5. My sales rep told me the only "car" that was unable to complete the torture test (somewhere in Virginia) was the BMW X5, and he also said that only the allroad and the X5 truly felt "competent" on the ON-Road (more sporting car challenge) test.

    Of course, Audi put this test together -- but it was not claiming to be THE BEST SUV -- it was sort of claiming to be the BEST hybrid between a truck based SUV's off road capabilities and a luxury sports sedan. Indeed, in this case, the allroad IS the Swiss Army Knife of Cars.

    If you must have a Suburban or a tall boy Touareg or whatever, well the allroad is probably not for you -- however if you need a mostly high performance sports sedan that can go on "all roads" then this thing is for you.

    It may get stuck in the deep snow -- but not readily. Most (96%) of the folks who buy an SUV NEVER go off road -- funny they buy SUV's for station wagon like capacity and all wheel drive. Audi (as one of the pioneers) has been producing this type of vehicle for over 20 years. They know how to build 'em.

    Stuck once in the snow with the quattro -- oops, but if it were a conventional front or rear wheel drive only vehicle, well it would be stuck a whole lot more.

    And, besides the allroad can be had with a 6spd manual!

    Try one.
  • Hi all, just am about ready to purchase an 01 allroad. This car is fully loaded minus the unneeded GPS system and has 25K on the odo. Just a quick question though, what are the differences (besides On Star and no third row seating) between the 01s to the 04s. They seem to hold value fairly well, especially for an Audi that has in the past been less than decent in fighting depreciation. It seems that I can get an 04 for about ~45K where <32K gets a 01. Is there any benefit of the newer car? They seem to look the same in and out...
    Thank you for any input
  • Hi all, just am about ready to purchase an 01 allroad. This car is fully loaded minus the unneeded GPS system and has 25K on the odo. Just a quick question though, what are the differences (besides On Star and no third row seating) between the 01s to the 04s. They seem to hold value fairly well, especially for an Audi that has in the past been less than decent in fighting depreciation. It seems that I can get an 04 for about ~45K where <32K gets a 01. Is there any benefit of the newer car? They seem to look the same in and out...
    Thank you for any input
  • . . .is this 01 allroad Audi assured; and is it a tiptronic? If it is not Audi assured, beware of the potential of high maint and repair costs. If it is a tip, be aware that the concensus is that this transmission has some "bad habits" -- tip lag being the first and foremost; I call the tip the "power-sucking-life-out-of-the-engine- transmission." If you must have an automatic and want a used Audi, go with an 03 since it will have both the S mode tip and the replacement brake rotors.

    The 01 and early and mid 02 allroads had rotors that were, well, prone to frequent problems.

    The changes between each model year, per usual Audi, were numerous and subtle. For example, the 02 had a heated steering wheel the 03 and 04's do not (only in the V8).

    In-Dash 6disk CD changer is in 03 and 04 allroads.

    On*star in 2003 was easily found, even though it was announced in the 2002 brochure, there were few of them (if any) available.

    The navigation system, to address your other comment is far from unneeded. This is a safety feature, a convenience feature and drivability feature -- no, really -- especially if you drive EVER in places in which you are personally unfamiliar. You are navigated without taking your eyes and hands off of the road -- you spend more time on the business of driving rather than finding your route.

    On*star and the integrated Audi phone and multi-function steering wheel and the voice response and Virtual Advisor functions that go along with it make it another safety and convenience feature. Parktronic, too, is one of those things that I once thought were unneeded -- the only thing I can think of that is unneeded is the solar sun roof and I don't recall if it is still an option for 04. The sat radio is new for 04 and many find it fantastic. Phat Noise is avail for earlier allroads, however, and that may be "poor man's" sat radio -- a 6 disk CD changer is hardly a bad thing, tho.

    To recap -- 01 may have some reliability issues that were cleared up in newer models; but 25K miles on an 01 is "young." 04 will be more reliable (or better said, probably more reliable); sat nav is almost a necessity, hardly unneeded, unless you never stray from familiar routes; the tiptronic is marginal even now (it is OK in the allroad 4.2 V8) but at least now it has a sport mode which reduces the lag, but does nothing to counteract the power sucking that seems to accompany the tip.

    The 6spd is a blast to drive.

    Whatever 2.7T you get, you should be aware that the OEM tires and their OEM like replacements are, in a word, awful. They should be replaced with 245 x 50 x 17" UHP (all season or no) tires or 245 x 45 x 18" tires and new wheels.

    All versions of this car (by that I mean all model years) are good, some have had issues resloved which means that the 04's probably will have lower total cost of ownership, minus the lease payment differences of course.

    No one knows, but I would speculate that the TCO of the 2001 (assuming a 36 month used car lease) would be comparable to the TCO of an 04 on a 36 - 39 month lease. Peace of mind, in other words, has value.
  • Think I got your point on the Tiptronic trans. That does seem to be an issue all across the board. I, nor my wife, were bothered by the Tip. She has the same transmission in her other car for the three seasons --a 98 911--although the shifting for some reason is much smoother on the Porsche I'll agree. This is not a sports car by our standards, more of a car to get thru the pacifid northwest winters in, go skiing, have for long family road trips etc. (this will be replacing our MB E320 4matic wagon that we have put over 400K on and are finally seeing the age of the old girl) It would be a hard sell indeed to convince her to get the 6 speed.
    As for the rotor issue...what are the problems? I did notice ancient non-vented brakes in the rear! Are they over heating in harsher driving conditions? Is there a fix?
    This car does have the heated wheel and a 6 disk changer along with the single disk in the dash. Maybe it was an add on the PO did to update. It is also fitted with 18" allroad wheels with 245 SO3s on them -- they will be quickly replaced with the 17" as I feel the 18" is a bit too low profile for a car of this type for us. Too much trail and gravel road with large pot hole driving -- we live in what could be considered "no where". And the last thing we want to worry about is a bent rim!
    We had the nav system in the MB, and I have it in one of my other cars and used it for the first week. Never even touched it after that. We relly never leave our known least by driving. I can see it for a frequent traveler or someone who lives in a more urban area.
    So, if I understand correctly, here is the list of items I will have to do without on an 01 v. spending the extra 15K for a new 04:
    On Star, updated brakes, sat radio, Tip S, and no third row which we find nice for the kids sometimes.
    If Im correct, I do not see the reason to go for it. This is a Audi certified car so has close to 80K left on the warrenty...better than the factories new warrenty I think -- unless I pay extra. I am not a subscriber to leases. My feeling is, if one does not have the money to buy something, buy something else!
    To clear up things though and a few questions: what mjr reliability problems can I expect? Is there something I should have the dealer check out before I have the car delivered? Why the wider tire for the car? does the 225 tire cause a problem or is it the tire type (allroad) that is the tire issue? I was thinking about 205 type like on the avant A6. better grip in the winter...
  • . . .but I must leave you with the advice I received first from my boss (in 1976) and subsequently from my CPA -- "buy what will appreciate, rent [lease] what will depreciate" -- buying cars is like burning twenty dollar bills to keep warm.

    Thank god or someone for their residual calculations which thus far (I am 52) have always saved me money.

    I have had 25+ Audis I paid cash for one of them -- a 1987 5000CS turbo quattro. It depreciated so fast, it would have been cheaper to burn paper money to heat my house (and I live in Cincinnati) when I traded the car in.

    Perhaps the way to do it is to buy "almost new" as you are doing.

    I feel much better for you knowing that it is an Audi assured vehicle. I urge you to consider that there is a petition to Audi of America protesting the tip transmission as a safety feature issue.

    Read it for yourself @:

    You may find the following excerpt of life saving value Dear Audi of America:

    "We have noticed significant hesitation when we launch the car from a stop. When the car is completely stopped, and the driver steps on the gas pedal, a lag of 1-3 seconds is observed. Within this time range, the car just idles as-is without moving forward. The same problem happens when the driver attempts to accelerate from 10-30. Using the S mode (if equipped) doesn't completely fix this problem.

    We consider this to be a safety hazard for both allroad drivers and other people on the road. A common scenario is that when a driver attempts to merge onto a main road, an intersection or freeway and anticipates smooth acceleration, nothing happens and the car is prone to being rear-ended or sandwiched.

    We understand that this problem only occurs in cars equipped with the Tiptronic transmission. In addition, this problem is not specific to the allroad, but also other Audi models with the Tiptronic transmission. We conclude that this has nothing to do with the "turbo lag" of the 2.7T engine as some dealers incline to believe. "

    There is a software update that can be applied that forces the transmission into Sport mode which does REDUCE the tip lag effect.

    Food for thought.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,238
    For someone such as Rennmann911 who appears to keep his vehicles for such long periods/high miles, there is no way a lease would look attractive. I'm a CPA and I'm not a proponent of leasing for the masses. Someone who positively plans to turnover vehicles quickly (such as markincincinnati) and/or someone who can deduct the payment can make the lease work out to their benefit. And generally you need to be talking about expensive cars if you're really looking for a cash benefit.

    I typically keep luxury cars for shorter periods of time and title them in my business so leasing usually works out as beneficial in some regards. My latest Audi was bought from a guy desperate to get out of a loan payment and I bought it for a song. Figured I'd keep it a year and turn it once the trade-in caught up, but I like it and might keep it longer. My run-of-the-mill cars get bought with cash. I keep them for longer periods of time and I don't want to be at the mercy of a dealer if I want to toss the vehicle prematurely for some reason.
  • Not sure I see a big "lag" as the artical states on the tip lag. The trans does shift a slo different than the Porsche equivalent, but seem fine to me. I do notice that one needs to be gentle on teh throttle to yield a smooth responce though, and some may be inclined to mash the gas too much. This mashing as I have now felt does have a "lag"type affect. If there is a chip or update to change the shift map though, I would be interested.
     Also looking at the benifits of chipping the engine as well. This is the first turbo car I have had in a long time (my last one was in 89 -- a Porsche 944 TurboS), and there were frequent problems with reliability and turbo longevity v. the newer lower boost turbos of today. I have seen great performance benifits of chips in turbo trucks and cars and am interested in what would be a good one to look at. This is, of course, nowing that I tend to keep these cars until they are no more fun to drive (eg 150+K miles. Thank you all for the input as I have just had this car delivered this am and am planning a 300mi jont thru MT and BC this holiday...time to check out teh fun features. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.
  • Looking for companies whole sell aftermarket seat covers for the rear bench seat. Like to cover the seat in the winter around here...keeps the kids muddy boots off the interior and the juice spill to a minimum. Any ideas? Tried teh run-of -the mill aftermarket one from teh local auto shop. Will not fit, not to mention worried how it may affect the airbags.
  • sfinersfiner Posts: 1
    I have had an allroad for 2 years now 27000 miles on it. overall nice to drive .occasional turbo lag with auto tip.Terrible german made goodyears which feathered and vibrated at 15000 miles. Replaced with Michelin pilots and had dealer realignment at same time all with much improvement.-Must purchase with extended waranty as suspension work, trans repair etc bills will make you cry.Purchase another ?possibly, v8 in short supply.May go to s4
  • If you are contemplating a new allroad, consider this: the 2.7T with tiptronic transmission is the source of much criticism (from its owners). Indeed, there is a petition to Audi of America claiming the tip is unsafe. I would not personally go that far.

    The tip transmission, as far as I know (and I have had four of them) is smooth, reliable and overall is probably right up there with competing class cars (which is not too much of a stretch since Audi sources the transmission -- as does VW, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, etc etc etc). The tiptronic, steptronic, manu-matic transmissions of late (5 years or so) are attempts to simulate manual transmission "control."

    These transmissions and the "system" in which they operate are so-called drive by wire systems. That is there is an analog to the human command (pressing the accerator pedal for example). This analog attempts (and typically does OK) to mimic the responses that systems that have direct physical links have. Again, they do "OK."

    In the allroad with the tip the complaint is that there is a delayed reaction from the moment the command is given to when the command is carried out. This split second or sometimes multi-second delay means, for some of us, that it is necessary to anticipate when you want maximum acceleration, for example. One half of a second even at a relatively slow speed can be 20 or more feet -- this is the so-called margin of error under certain circumstances.

    The issue is compounded somewhat in this application (and in others from companies other than Audi) by three additional performance detractors: 1.) final drive ratio -- it is HIGHER (lower numerically) in the auto transmission (this means that the transmission forces the engine to turn more slowly and typically this means that the engine cannot deliver as much "power" to the drive wheels) Note: the final drive ratio is higher in the auto transmission in an attempt to improve fuel economy since auto transmissions typically waste fuel since they are not "direct" shift (like a manual transmission or a true auto-manual such as the new DSG designs); 2.) "turbo-effect" -- this simply means that this turbo, indeed any turbo has a point (measured in RPM's) where the engine is starved for air and thus is not at optimum torque -- translation a multiplied effect of the transmission's inherent characterstics, e.g., as noted in #1 above; 3.) the tiptronic is computer controlled and it is a "learning" transmission -- this translates into the possibility of the transmission being able to adapt to the driver's style over time versus its main "boot" program (which in the tip in this situation seems hell-bent to upshift prematurely in an attempt to improve fuel economy).

    OK add these three things together and you get "tip-lag" -- apparently somewhat mitigated by placing the shift in "S" mode which keeps the engine at a higher -- more responsive -- RPM range longer; and, apparently further mitigated by improvements in the software and perhaps even the speed of the CPU that controls it in the 2004 versions.

    I am not an engineer and not even technical enough to know what the differences are -- but I did test drive both the 2003 allroad tip (2.7T engine) and a leftover 2002 S6 Avant (which only comes in tip, in the US). The transmission in the S6 "behaved" in "D" mode "as if" it was directly connected to the accelerator pedal. My buddies who have test driven the RS 6 report similar sensations.

    Something "ain't right" about the allroad 2.7T when it is connected to a tip. I had a 2001 A6 4.2 and it was "mostly" free from this tip lag. But it would fight to stay in second gear if I slowed to a rolling stop and then without shifting down I would press the accelerator and the thing would shift up to 3rd gear rendering my 300hp A6 to a turtle-start. This could only be countered by fully flooring the accelerator, which would then reward me with a lunge forward. Generally I like to lunge forward, but when all I wanted was brisk acceleration, it seemed there was no middle ground; all or nothing if you get my drift.

    The 2.7T allroad apparently even today when equipped with the tiptronic frustrates some drivers all the time and all drivers some of the time. I do not know if this is the case with the allroad with the 4.2 engine.

    Finally, when equipped with every possible option, the 6spd allroad 2.7T when compared with the tiptronic (only) 4.2 allroad is $5,000 less, has sexy and important 18" wheels and tires and a power actuated steering column and is, according to Audi's own published data less-quick in the 0-100kph dash.

    The difference is .1 second -- but the cost for a 99% identical vehicle is hardly trivial.

    The lesson, if any, here is to take three seriously long test drives, if you are considering this wonderful car -- and yes I said "wonderful."

    Our allroad is one of over two dozen Audis my wife and I have owned since our first Audi in 1978 -- and even including the 1997 A8, this is the best, most versatile, fun, safe and comfortable Audi ever. Ours is a 2.7T with 6spd manual every possible option, upgraded wheels and tires (RS 6 18" with 245 x 45 UHP tires), rear sport anti-sway bar and high performance BPV's -- we had the fenders and bumpers fully painted and after discount the car was still "only" $50K with all the extra cost items. This makes it still over $4k less than a tiptronic allroad with the 4.2 V8 which sees our tail-lights.

    You probably will not hate the tiptronic -- although the ire of owners all over the Internet on this subject has reached a level of shrillness over the past 12 months that is "impressive." The point is test drive all the allroads -- you may find the 6spd allroad to be the best car you've ever driven.

    It is darn close to being the "swiss army knife" of cars.
  • tagnewtagnew Posts: 3
    Mark, you really reinforce for me why I want a 6 speed allroad to replace my 2001 1.8 avant. Had a 91 200 20 valve avant (which was a fabulous car until the electricals started to get weird) so know the value of a stick teamed with a great engine. Reasons for hesitation- dealer only has tips, so no test drive. The gas hog factor. Buying the last year of a body style- dealers saying my 01 1.8 avant is only worth 16-19,000 because it's a discontinued body (although nearly perfect). But if the allroad goes away, and nothing really replaces it, and a stick can only be had in an a4 or tt, wouldn't a 6 speed allroad hold value well? I still can't get an answer about whether a full size spare can be made to fit. Actually liked the tip more than I had expected, but wouldn't settle for one. The preferred lease looks pretty attractive, although I haven't seen any hard numbers. So...waiting for clarity.
  • . . .my dealer, for reasons unknown to me, has always had 1 (sometimes more than 1) stick shift in stock since the allroad came out. He also seems to always have 1 allroad 4.2. Of course the 6spds I have seen at the dealer were usually stripped to the bone of options (perhaps "they" thought the reason to get a 6spd is you are looking for a stippie?)

    In any case, I ordered mine, full-boat (all options avail in mid 2002 for a 2003) minus the auto trans and minus the solar sun roof, had it fully painted (arranged by the dealer prior to my picking it up); had new tires put on it before I ever drove it and had both the on*star and factory phone activated. When I picked up my 2003 allroad it was, essentially, "perfect." Later, when my first set of tires (Pilot Sport A/S in size 245 x 50 x 17) needed replacement at 19,000 miles I upgraded the wheels to RS 6 size 18" -- the dealer did everything for me here too.

    I ordered the A6 PSK rear anti-sway bar (the so-called sport upgrade) and Bosch Sport Turbo By-pass valves -- all arranged and installed at the dealer.

    My point in all of this is -- IT IS POSSIBLE with just a pinch of patience to get EXACTLY what you want and to test drive the 2.7T with and without the tip and, presumably, ditto the 4.2.

    Note: in my comments, I mentioned no first-hand allroad 4.2 experience -- perhaps if you, for whatever reason, resign yourself to a tiptronic transmission, you should at least give the 4.2 a good test drive. Perhaps the tip-lag has been banished or is not an issue in this configuration.

    And, before you protest the price, hear this: the 4.2, like the allroad in general, is not setting the world on fire, sales wise (I have NEVER seen one [a 4.2, i.e.] on the road in a city with 2 Audi dealers and at least a reasonable chance of seeing an allroad at least once a week (other than my own)) -- sooo, the unsubstantiated rumor is that the allroad 4.2 MAY be (has been) discounted more heavily than the 2.7T. This probably will not make up the vast (in my opinion) price difference for a 99% identical car -- but if forced to have a tip, I would certainly strongly consider the sweetest V8 I know, the Audi 4.2 -- the sound is so intoxicating!

    Now, if the tip lag is a drag in the 4.2 -- fughetaboudit!

    Finding a 6spd 2.7T 2004 allroad (for your dealer) will not be difficult. They may not want to do it, but they can. And, if the ONLY way they will get a 6spd allroad for you to test drive is with your more or less promise to buy it -- find another dealer.

    And to repeat -- the anticipation of ordering a new one equipped exactly as you like it is kind of like getting a new car TWICE. First when you place the order, then 3 or 4 months (perhaps less) later when it arrives.

    If, as the rumor mill states, either 2004 or 2005 is the final (current name) allroad and I could TODAY get out of my lease (20 months to go), I would TODAY get a new allroad with another 3 year lease and, presumably, love every mile of driving.

    At this point in my lease, this is not practical, financially speaking. At 24K miles, I love this car, hence my desire to reload if I could for a new one.

    And dispite my disdain for the tip, I would AT LEAST give the 4.2 a test drive.

    I keep hoping there will be one last model year (2005) and that the excellent 6spd tip will be made available, at least in the V8 allroad.

    I know, dream a little dream for me. . .
  • tagnewtagnew Posts: 3
    Keep checking this forum, but no posts for eight days. What gives? Is interest in the allroad waning as we expect the end of production soon? I still see nothing out there with the appeal of the allroad- safety ( both through handling prowess and passive ability to withstand impact), styling, lux factor, great traction system and availability of a 6 speed. I realize the 2.7 is viewed as a dated engine- emissions and efficiency not up to latest standards, but there is nothing else with all its attributes that is any better in that department. FYI there is a good article in the latest NEW YORKER about the illusions of safety the average SUV buyer labors under.
  • There are forums all over the Internet -- this one, for whatever reason, is usually pretty quiet.

    There must be two classes of allroad owners: the fanatics who mod their allroad "extensively" and the 100% stockers.

    I fall in the middle, although I would be classified as a "passionate" Audi owner/advocate.

    Seems like a lot of folks want to talk about price and that is OK, but, you may be right, even that has waned as perhaps the allroad remains a secret car -- at risk of becoming invisible.

    I now see more Touareg's than allroad's in Cincinnati. Also see plenty of Cayanne's -- haven't seen a Phaeton yet and even see more S6 avants than allroads.

    Someone ask me the other day how I liked my A6 -- which is understandable -- but wrong.

    Shock -- the clerk at the 7-11 asked how I liked my Audi SUV! I'll be up and about again soon.
  • Mark (and anyone else for that matter)just went to the dealer and inquired about the sport BPV that, from another thread, is supposed ot be avail from the dealer. THey had no clue to this or the 200 installed price of sport sway bars. Any part numbers?
  • The Swaybar and bushings are separate items and are from the Audi parts catalog for an Audi A6 sport suspension (rear sway bar only). It is often called the PSK mod, since that was the code for ordering an A6 with a sport suspension.

    The stock rear sway bar on an Audi allroad is 15mm in diameter. The sport version is 18mm -- these silly three millimeters lessen the body's roll during hard cornering, keeping the car more level than without it.

    Couple this with lower profile 17" or 18" tires (on appropriately sized wheels) and at least a -10mm lowering of the allroad's suspension effectively making level 2 about where level 1 is and lowering level 1 to an even more sporting height (I lowered mine -12mm).

    The sport BPV's came from Hoppen Motorsports, they are on the WWW and I purchased the BPV's from him -- both the BPV's and the sway bar and bushings were installed by my dealer.

    The sway bar was around $120 and the installation of the swaybar and BPV's was about $100.

    I also had the dealer lower the car via the computer and realign it -- no charge.

    I had new wheels and tires shipped to the dealer and they also mounted and balanced 4 18 RS 6 Sport replica wheels and 245 x 45 x 18" UHP tires.

    Have a blast.
  • So, after looking at the web site(nice stuff), what does the SBPV do exactly? Is there a raise in performance? How about adding a test pipe' to the system and rid the exhaust of the cats? This used to be a great fix and I would expect in turbocharged cars would make a big difference. I live in a emission free area so sky's the limit with this... :)
    I understand the sway bars, this turbo stuff is quite a bit different though. My last turbo was quite a while ago.
      I may check into lowering the car once winter is over, then have them raise it next winter again... if its that easy (do they need to realign every time?)
    Thanks for your help. We are enjoying the car and have to laugh now at the SUV crowd (which we were in for awhile with our ML430) Now my little girls car.
    The fit and finish is top notch -- even compared to our E class and 911 (the ML can't compete) --this could not have been said of Audi in previous years.
    The capability of this car on and off road (we have had a few snowy trail excursions) is phenomenal. if the ML were not lifted a bit with larger tires I might say better than the Benz. Surely a car that will last awhile in our household. I think the only car/SUV that can compare or ??? is the Cayenne S or Turbo...but for quite a bit more cash and the look is questionable. Not to mention the stabs I would get from my local PCA buddies! Thanks again.

    Oh BTW, has anyone had any issues with the speakers? I seem the hear a buzzing when the bass kicks in (in the door speakers) I have the Symphony system and I will say that the system seems to lack compaired with competitors. I think I heard the buzz in other allroads and A6s as well on test drives...
  • Sport By Pass Valves add a subtle boost to performance -- the boost sticks around longer because the SBPV's have a stiffer spring.

    There also is a subtle sound change a bit more VROOOOOMMMM under full throttle acceleration. There are no chip / warranty issues; but there is also nothing near the effect of a chip.

    The lowering is a one time deal -- about -12mm and 1 all wheel alignment do the trick. Unless you seriously go off road, there would be no reason to undo it.

    When we have piles of snow, I set the thing to level 3, on freeways when snow is not an issue, level 2 and on the "twisties" (and no snow) level 1. I have used level 4 1 time to park in a "corn field" that had been set up as a parking lot for a concert.

    Expect a mild but discernable performance change with the SBPV's -- don't expect a transformation.

    The lower profile and higher performance tires, wheels, sport sway bar and lowering will, however, be a handling transformation.

    If you want a power transformation, your least expensive route is a chip from APR, MTM, AWE or others. Some folks, swear by the chips -- I don't feel the 6spd needs one, especially with the SBPV's.

    If you have a tip, you may want to consider a tip chip which helps with the problems associated with the transmission, the so-called tip lag.
  • Mark thanks for all the info. I just ordered the exhaust system from Hoppen along with the SBPV. I am also looking for some 18x9 inch wheels for summer use.
    I am not a fan of chips --they seem to confuse the engine mgt. sys at times on my truck (check eng light comes on). Also, the parameters of safety in the engine would be closed in. I have not seem much on a tip-chip though. that might be interesting as there is a bit of 'thinking' that trany does when driving styles change. If this is the same developed trans as on the Porsche, there is much to be improved on the speed and programs of shifts.
  • jma37jma37 Posts: 5
    Mark, I'll direct this question to you since you seem to be "the man" on this allroad site:

    Lease on my 2001 X-5 is expiring end of April and I've really got it down to two choices: Volvo V70-R and an allroad 2.7T (want to get 6sp after reading your posts but worried about sitting on the clutch in Long Island traffic, as well as a manual learning-phobic wife). Loved the Volvo @ the test drive, but have always admired more the allroad exterior styling and interior (I know not the most important things when leasing a new car, but still...)

    Anyway, a big red flag has come up. My dad is the owner of a 2003 allroad 2.7T tiptronic. His car has been in the shop constantly, due to a malfunctioning of the air suspension system. Not sure of the details. Apparently the springs are "flimsy" and break easily, he uses the car in fairly rugged terrain with some frequency and often adjusts the height as he needs it. A rep at the dealership said--at his own job risk, I suppose--that this is a known problem on the car, as well as on the suspension of the A8-L!.

    I've driven his car and really loved everything about it, but I worry about things like this when I've also read reports (JD Power?) of Audi's reliability ratings being on the lower side of average. What info can you provide on the subject of the air suspension? Many thanks.
  • . . .I have had no suspension issues, period. I have virtually had no issues at all with this car and I am now at 25K miles.

    I urge you to post your questions and concerns in other forums too. There are several all over the Internet.

    I have read of some issues, yes, but most of the issues were with the 01 models. The air suspension that the allroad uses has evolved to such an extent that the technology is the basis for the Audi A8, Porshce Cayenne and the VW Phaeton and Touareg (and rumored ditto for the upcoming Audi Pike's Peak.)

    100% bullet proof -- nope, nothing is. But Audi has a great deal of experience with the technology. Now, the allroad is for all roads and perhaps some "off roads."

    I consider my allroad the most capable car I have ever had -- but I do not think it would be a substitute for a "Rubicon Trail Tested" Jeep, or other similarly designed vehicle.

    It is in my opinion more capable than an X5 in many ways, except for its towing capacity.

    I would get another one in a heartbeat.

    I would NEVER have any European car without the full faith and credit of the manufacturer's warranty (either the original 50,000 mile warranty or the extended to 100,000 mile version)!
  • jma37jma37 Posts: 5
    A belated thanks...The sales mgr. at my local Audi dealer aknowleged the problem being more prevalent in the 2001 models as you indicated, and he had heard of it to a lesser extent in the 2003 version. Said the problem was fixed in the '04s. Details of the actual problem were too technical for me, I'll admit.

    Test driving the 2.7T tip again, didn't notice too much hesitation--still seemed plenty quick to me. Out of curiosity, do you know the 0-60 difference between the tip and the 6-speed? I read different things.

    BTW, my sales rep. also said that the price difference on a 39-mo. lease, if I took a 6sp, would be marginal. Wonder if he could possibly be trying to push the tip over the 6sp? But since I can tell how much you prefer the 6sp over the tip, if he's being up front about the price, are there reasons other than smoother acceleration (not that it isn't an insignificant reason) to choose it over the tip? Choosing the latter eases the burden of driving in traffic (I do every day) and having to worry about my wife having to drive the car in some cases...
  • 0-100kph 6sd = 6.8 seconds.

    0-100kph Tip = 7.3 seconds.

    Interestingly, the 4.2, tip only, is 6.9 seconds time to 100kph. And it's $5k more.

    The allroad 4.2 was the answer to a question no one asked, IMHO. But, nothing sounds sweeter than that V8 engine, so I CAN see the appeal. I just wish it had a lower final drive ratio so that it could be the quickest allroad on the road.

    With the railing against the current tip transmission, I would probably not buy any 5spd tip at the momemnt.

    The 6spd tip and the DSG, however, are horses of a different color.

    Prediction, 2005 will see the 6spd tip start a move into the Audi lineup (currently only in the A8, S4 and 180HP TT front track.)
  • jma37jma37 Posts: 5
    Unfortunately, the 4.2's appetite for fuel is stronger as well!

    You did write buy, not lease, the 5sp tip. Was that intentional, or is it just linguistics? I am interested in a lease. And again, although I enjoy the manual, I can't ignore my soon-to-be 80 mile round-trip commute which will be mostly in heavy Long Island traffic.

    Interestingly enough, the lease cost estimate I received for the 6sp vs. the tip was identical.

    Thanks for the numbers!
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