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Comments
We have a 2000 OB and not only are the spark plugs non-platinum but they are "champion" brand. Champion make the worst spark plugs on the market. Our OB developed a "miss" will idling and after I found out the car had these plugs I insisted they intall NGK plugs. Never had the problem again. Something to consider. Otherwise, great car!
Live Happy,
Chris
Thanks
Glad to hear you are enjoying your Bean and don't have any problems.
Becky
So, does anyone know when the 2002 models are due into the dealers?
Shannon
But I ended-up buying a OB LL Bean - very satisfied.
$2,100 for 7000 miles, reasonable...
(I'm living in LA)
The 2000 OB uses the 2.5L SOHC Phase II engine which come with standard plugs. The standard plugs require a 30K service interval. The older OBs with 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine use platinum plugs because it's much more difficult to replace them on the older engine design.
The dealer needs to do his homework.
Ken
Bob
I noticed that you mentioned you were from Putnam County. My parents are considering buying either an OB or Forester (to drive on that darn Taconic in the winter), and I have been doing some research to help them out. They live in southern Dutchess County, so I was wondering what dealership you purchased your OB from and whether you would recommend buying from them. Thanks.
After reading about the alternatives which also included Ford/Mazda, Mitsubishi, VW and the Acura MDX, we drove the Honda CRV and Passport, Ford SportTrac (just for grins), Chevy Blazer (rental), Outback Wagon, Outback Limited and the LL Bean. A local car show made it easy to sit in the driver's seat, slam the doors, and just generally imagine driving each one. A great way to narrow down choices.
We liked the Outback from the first, but it wasn't until we did a back-to-back test drive comparison between the Lexus RX300 and the Bean that we made our decision. The Lexus was just too big and noisy, and it seemed that the engine had to try hard to push the vehicle around - and then we compared the prices! The decision was simple after that with no regrets (but why are so many others buying them?).
They are not platinum plugs in your vehicle. 30K should be the maintenance interval.
Ken knows his stuff!
Patti
Good luck,
Greg
Give your contours a little time and it will conform to the seat(if you know what I mean)...
OK, kidding aside, the seat will settle in.
Thanks
a 2002 Outback, and I'm trying to figure out if I should get the tow hitch and really ever tow
anything with it. The specs sheet says it can tow 2,000 lbs...but the owner's manual says you
can forget about the warranty if any damage is done by towing. The manual also says the towing
limit is really 1,000 lbs. unless the trailer has its own breaks, and guess what...most trailers
designed for 2,000 lbs. service don't have breaks. The single-axle flatbed utility trailers I've found weigh 600-700 lbs (steel construction, available at some U-Haul rentals and Home Depot rentals), and an aluminum equivalent weighs 350 lbs. Subtract out the trailer weight, and I'm down to 300-600 lbs of cargo capacity. What do I want to tow? 362 days a year, nothing. The other 3 days, maybe some yard waste, an old couch, or some sheets of plywood. So I'm not interested in owning a larger, gas-guzzling, lousy-handling truck/SUV with REAL towing capacity just for a hypothetical 3 hauls a year...I can rent a U-Haul truck for that if needed. The LAST thing I would want to do is damage the Outback to avoid a $40 rental fee a few times a year. So...should I count on the capability and convenience of towing with my Outback...or should I just rent a truck on those days?
As with "NYGreg", we also used Wappinger Falls Subaru/Toyota for test driving (twice), but they didn't get the sale because they wanted MSRP (back in December) and were totally unprofessional. We bought from Curry Subaru (also test drove twice there) in Yorktown. Got a great deal from a professional car salesman named Pete Acton, who has been there for 7 years and is a full-time NYC fireman. Nice guy. Worth the scenic drive down the Taconic for your parents.
My $.02.....
After all you are talking about a $250 hitch accessory plus buying(?) a $300-600 trailer. Thats around $600 min to buy the stuff (don't forget you will need a place to keep it). $600/40=15 days of rentals before you break even. So your looking at 5 years.
In addition you have the additional risk to yourself and your car involved in towing.
Its much easier to drive a big truck than a car + trailer, especially backing up!
With the trailer your always wondering "Am I overloading it" as opposed to "Pile it on" with a truck. I'd much rather abuse rental equipment than my own stuff.
No contest - rent the truck. Save the OB.
Same reason I bought the OB instead of another minivan - on those few days (out-of-town guests) I might need to carry 6 or 7 people - you guessed it - I'll rent the truck (van).
Cheers,
Ken M.
the sun roof and cup holder designs.
The dealer is now giving me a bit of a run around and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a stutter problem like this? Any suggestions as to what could be causing it? I'm meeting with the regional manager next week and I'm looking into my rights under the lemon laws of my state.
Thanks
Yes, it's frustrating that Subaru's tow limit, and restrictions, are so low. For some of us, that issue is at, or near, the top of the list for future product upgrades.
Bob
Having said that, I would not push it any further. Mulch is heavier than wood chips, so I'd limit it to one or two yards of mulch, unless you get a lighter aluminum trailer.
I do recommend a 5'x8' size. 3 yards nearly fills it up, so a 4'x8' would be a real squeeze. The 5" width makes it more stable, too.
Then again, renting may be cheaper. I had the hitch for the bike rack as well, so...
David: my cousin puts 3 kids in the back of his '99 Outback, and the 2000 models are wider. Go to photopoint, look for ateixeira@ifc.org's photo album, and I think it's under family photos.
Steve: inteference or not? I think the underlying question is about timing belts and service costs. The H6 has a chain and requires no changes. The H4 has a 105k mile service interval that is far longer than most (usually 60k). I believe my Phase I is non-interference, but the new ones are - but the bigger point is you should not stretch the already longish 105k mile interval.
Michelle: 1999->2000 means many changes. That's when the redesign came. The 2000 is wider, bigger, heavier, and has a stiffer structure. It went to the Phase II engine with a bit more torque, and the new style with the V shaped rear window some like and others don't. The new one aced crash tests, so if you afford one go for it.
-juice
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1400062
Then go to Forester Photos, and look at photo 18 for the 3 kids in the back seat. I suggest taking your actual baby seats to a dealer to try it yourself, however.
Under the Hitch album, photos 23-26 show the bike rack and the trailer I towed. Even the load of wood chips is pictured.
Hope that helps.
-juice
Here's a long shot but worth a try. Our 2000 OB 2.5, 5 spd developed a miss in the idle. The dealer couldn't figure out the problem. Turned out it was the spark plugs (champion). After installation of NGK plugs the problem went away. Good Luck
Live Happy,
Chris
The Legacy is bigger and more comfy. It's probably a better choice to haul passengers long distances, and for long commutes and such. The ride is very smooth with the long wheelbase, and the interior is more upscale. Got 2-3 kids? This is the one.
The Forester is far lighter and quicker with the same engine. The short wheelbase makes it more manueverable too, and mileage tends to be a little better from what I've heard. It's tall and boxy shape means a clothes washer fit inside, even with the box, which is handy. I find the height very user-friendly, and the extra ground clearance may come in handy. It's also cheaper.
But to each their own. I helped my cousin buy an Outback in '99, and my dad chose a 2001 Outback over a Forester S Premium recently because it was more comfy. I think you can't go wrong - we've all been quite pleased.
-juice
Jack
Also, this was back in 1998 when the Forester was new and the previous generation OB was starting show it's age. I personally just liked the way the Forester looked both inside and out.
If I were in the market today, I think the "lighter and quicker" would stand out more given that the new OB gained considerable weight. However, the overall looks and build quality of the newer OBs have improved too.
It still would have been a tough choice.
Ken
Yep, it's very frustrating.
Bob
I think the tow ratings here in Australia have a lot to do with legislation. My Outback tows beuatifully and I have towed both a caravan and more regularly a 6'x4' trailer. The trailer is 180kg empty (about 400lb) and loaded is about 500kg, the unbraked maximum weight for the Outback, I think. This particular trailer is built to my specs so is uprated for a couple of purposes but this is probably the best tow car and trailer combination I have ever had.
The braked maximum weight is 1400kg or about 3080lb. This is just under the weight of the Outback.
There are a couple of things which probably make Outbacks in Australia a better tow car. They are fitted with the dual range transmission which gives about 20% reduction on first gear for good pull away and the Limited version is fitted with a self levelling rear suspension. As a general proposition, towing is better with an automatic than a manual.
I would thoroughtly recommend the Outback as a tow car.
Cheers
Graham
A lot of people who end up with the wagon get an Outback for that SUV type look. I was happy to stay with the L Wagon. To tell you the truth, I feel more unique and anti establishment with it considering all the SUV/SUWs out there today.
It all comes down to what suits you the best. I didn't have to drive both because I was able to eliminate one just by looking. If you are not sure, drive both and go from there. You won't lose either way, they are all very good vehicles.
Dave B.
Forester is quicker and lighter feel. But also has a bit more road noise compared to the OB.
Look in the trunk area. The OB uses a lot more sound insulation and also a "doughnut" spare tire. The Forester uses a full size spare and leaves storage area.
I have the 2 kids and a 25 mile interstate commute to work.
I picked the OB after driving both.
--Jay
If we happen to get a second new car, I would get a Forester.
Greg
As to the self-leveling suspension, there's another feature I wish we had here in the States.
Bob
Well, based on Graham's input, I may go back to considering an Outback. That brings up another question. Maybe the DC wouldn't be a good tow car unless you can turn off the DC when towing.... thoughts? I hear the 2002 VDC. will have an on/off switch. Any truth to the rumors?
If I remember correctly, a VDC on/off switch is one of the confirmed features for 2002.
The best way to find out which is for you is to test drive both models. Both great vehicles, but they offer different driving experiences.
Ken
Ann
Ross
Good luck in your search,
Greg
US/Canuck towing capacity is 1000lb for a manual and 2000lb for an auto; why is this? I presume that the manual could also handle 2000lb but perhaps there's a clutch issue or something like that and Subaru want to protect themselves. But if, as someone says, the issue is also to do with legislation in the US, why do the Canuck cars have the same limit? Perhaps our legislators just slavishly follow the US example (although they didn't do that with daytime running lights...ours were mandated for the 1990 model year).
Luggage space in the Forester is simply not enough for our camping trips. Personally I don't like the square SUV type styling either, I'm a station wagon kind of guy (aargh! what am I saying?). They are the most practical of vehicles. But the Forester beats the heck out of toys like RAV4 and the totally useless Suzuki boy-racer Grand Vitara, which has less luggage space than most small hatchbacks.
I have never driven a Forester, but my wife has twice (dealership loaner) and she likes it, mostly because she finds it easier to park than the OB. It is shorter and she says it has better rearward visibility.
And I do find the Subaru people are fairly mellow, thoughtful and practical as a group. I read this before we bought and I thought, "What a load of BS!". But it seems to be true.
Back to Subies: I wasn't aware of the manual vs. automatic restriction, in terms of trailer weight. I know, here in the States, Subaru restricts towing to 1000 lbs. if your trailer doesn't have brakes.
Bob
Jack