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Comments
Thanks
-juice
-Dave
Is this vehicle realible & is the 2.5 engine powerfull enough for everyday city driving.
Is it recommended by Consumer Reports.
I look forward to comments.
--Jay
(I did a brief 10k review - check message #2715)
Ron
Subaru ownership is contagious. I bought a '98 Forester, then my cousin liked it and she bought a '99 Outback. My dad liked hers so much that he bought a 2001 OBLtd. Now my little sister is shopping and the Legacy L is on her short list...we'll see.
Mine has only been to the dealer for a single recall. Other than that, no problems. My cousin has only had scheduled maintenance. My dad went in once for a brake squeek, but it turned out to be no biggie.
He does have lots of mechanical failures - on his Taurus. ;-)
-juice
I've heard that Dollar rents Foresters out of Seattle, but I can't confirm that.
Ed
I'm glad we did. Go to Edmunds' "Volvo V70 Wagon Experience" chat room and check out recent #s 350, 351, and 352. True war stories say so much (thank God for the Internet - and Edmunds!)....
Venture inside and you'll find no less than seven interior colors, including fake aluminum grab handles whose paint had worn off on the one I test drove. OK in a Tiburon, but in a Volvo?
That plus the pillars are so thick that it has some big blind spots, and the price is too high. Top all that off with a suspension that never really settled down in hard turns, reminiscent of a Buick, and you should have no remorse whatsoever.
OTOH, the non-XC Volvos are much nicer, with more sensible interior color schemes and none of the brown/blue cladding. No AWD, though.
-juice
Sounds like the trailer hitch will go on my '02 without a 'hitch'. I want to buy a light duty trailer for getting the lawn tractor in for service, transport supplies home from Home Depot, etc. Things I used to be able to do easily when I owned a Ford F150. Small wagons like my old Corolla and the OB are great, but who wants to put 500lbs of CCA pressure treated lumber on those new seats???
Nobody with alarm kit experience? I assume that one must pick up some wiring harness points in the center dash area. I reviewed the scanned images that ORIGINALBITMAN posted some weeks ago for radio installation (thanks for the link, Bitman). Same basic procedure?
To NYGREG: Yes, we are as good as kin.... I leased my wife's 2000 Ford Windstar from Colonial Ford-Subaru. Excellent sales/service experience, at least on the Ford side. Trust me - I know. The Ford knows the way to the dealer only too well. Got to go back again today to pick it up and return their free loaner. Had one of their cars for 5 weeks last year when the tranny suffered repeated soft fails. I originally intended to buy my OB from them but 1) it is a bit too far away, even with the loaner car offer. 2) After Sept 11, I felt the need to buy local, if at all possible.
Question: Any suggestions about getting to the center diff dipstick on H4 automatics? I can snake my hand in and grasp it along the firewall, but cannot pull it out completely due to the positioning and inflexibility of both my hand and the stick itself. Would removal of the air cleaner assembly help?
BTW: In answer to another posted question, I rented an AWD Legacy Wagon from Hertz at SEATAC (Seattle) a few years back.
Steve
Photos from the event are here.
-juice
http://www.remarcable.net/misc/legacy_outback/gallery/video/volvo_filmen.mov
Also see
http://bilnytt.spray.se/frame_index.asp?mode=nybil&usepage=nybil%5CVolvo+XC+mot+Subaru%5C
Basically, the XC does really badly on an offroad track when compared to a Subaru Outback Legacy. With and without something being towed.
I'm sure other things like tire condition may come into play, however I would expect these tests were conducted fairly.
Is this a case of testing where the Subaru's system would inherently (for some reason) do better?
I'll also post this on the Outback Legacy forum
Subaru(s) are a direct competitor for Volvo, Audi & VW. Of course we all know this. My point is that subaru costs thousands less than volvo, audi & VW but provides us an extremely reliable & long lasting product.
In my opinion, subaru wins over v, a & vw anyday when u look at how many thousands subie costs.
Often times I get irritated when magazines compare audi & subie, and say subie has cheap interiors........I am not willing to pay 10k more to get better interior material !
http://www.remarcable.net/misc/legacy_outback/gallery/xlated.html
Thanks for the link; I've visited Mark's page but missed the Volvo XC vs. Outback comparison.
sweet_subie: I completely agree!
..Mike in MD
..Mike
At some point, I'd like him to practice braking in a safe place with and without ABS, since not all cars he may drive have this. Is it possible to safely and temporarily disable the Bean's ABS by pulling a fuse (or similar easy maneuver)?
Thanks,
Andy
I test drove a new XC a while back and shared my impressions, you'll recall I didn't like it much either. In fact, I'd take my dad's 2.5l OBLtd instead, any day. The Volvo is soft, has an unsettled suspension, and has mixed-message styling (7 interior colors). Price is high and reliability leaves a question mark, to boot.
Volvo AWD, if indeed that was an AWD model (they do have FWD now), is just pitiful. No torque to the rear wheels at all? That's exactly the situation where you would need it, too.
But the bigger question is this, how did they get an automatic 2.0l 156hp Outback to reach 62mph in just 7.7 seconds? And if that's the case, bring that engine over here to the USA, please!
-juice
Greg
Volvo's again: IMO, it is hard for someone to admit that their $38K+ car has problems, even if they are the nuisance quality type ones. The V70 car (at least the one I test drove standard V70 not the XC) sway a lot when hitting a curve that it felt like an old bus turning. Subaru, from past owner that I met at a hockey game, have said that the powertrains can last forever. This owner had the problem of a rusting car (it was a 1986) but the powertrain was original at 200K miles.
This means you now have the option to access this discussion from either one of these message boards. Hope you enjoy discussing this subject with participants from both of these message boards. Happy Motoring! ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
Thanks to all who replied with advice/feedback. It's appreciated. There is another car I am considering (which will remain nameless), and the people on that message board are much less friendly. Anyway, I dont think my search will kick into high gear until around the new year, but I am doing all of my homework ahead of time. Basically what I want is an H6 sedan (non VDC), probably in Wintergreen, and I will add on the very cool compass/auto-dimming mirror and security system upgrade. I wish they made a dark blue sedan! My second choice after wintergreen is white. Now I just gotta get used to the idea of having a car with gold emblems and wheel accents! (I swore that would never be me, but the Sube wears them well I have to admit). All the sedans I've seen lately have been VDC's, I wonder if its hard to locate a Non VDC one? Can these cars be special ordered? Anyway, any more dealer tips or general experiences, I'd love to hear them. I'll add my email address into my profile if anyone from my area wants to drop a line to discuss the car in more detail. Thanks again all...-D
Wait until early next year and the price will only get better. You can special order, but by then supply should be pretty good.
-juice
Check out www.fitzmall.com, where I think the VDC sedan is already being sold at invoice (including add fee). I used the fitzgerald's price to negotiate (without any hassle) about the same price for a VDC sedan at a dealer close to my mom's in NJ. We ordered the car (with auto-dimming mirror and security system), and it came within 6 weeks. Good luck!
-juice
she received the recall for the front springs on her '98 Legacy L Wagon.
Yes, I was aware of the recall over a month ago through the Subaru
on-line message boards I belong to. They was not sure it would effect L
wagons or if it extended down south as far as New York.
The problem seems to be that SOA (Subaru of America) spec.ed out a
coating for the front coil springs that was not corrosion resistant
enough. In New England and apparently NY. where road salt can wreck
havoc on the under body of vehicles, they have had concerns that if the
spring rusted enough it could break, resulting in a puncture of a front
tire! This would be a lawsuit ready to happen for Subaru, if someone
lost control while this occurred and crashed!
The problem is this, the recall only entails installing a shield on the
spring. This shield prevents a broken spring from puncturing the tire,
it does NOT prevent or rectify the corrosion problem with the front
springs. Seems GM might be using some of there "dirty" money fingers at
Subaru to boost profits and reduce Quality
I did hear that one owner in New Hampshire brought his Subaru in for the
recall in the Tech. and he looked at the springs and they were BADLY
corroded. The dealer agreed to both replace the front springs with the
new improved version AND install the recall shields! This is the
situation I would like to see for you. If there is a known problem with
these springs we don't just want a temporary solution that we will have
to deal with 2 years down the road. We want the problem rectified the
way it was suppose to be from the factory!! Wilton Subaru is a good
dealer they should help you, and concur with you on this one. If they
do not, let me know and I will let the list know about this one.
Greg
Joel: thanks for the heads up but cross-posting is a no-no. I've seen the same post several times now.
I bet that 20 years from now those springs will be in a junkyard somewhere with only surface rust.
-juice
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I didn't even consider these beast for several reasons:
1. Everybody and their grandma has one, call me a maverick but I can't see being like the rest.
2. They are too big to fit in a garage. I have a garage that holds two cars and keeps them out of the elements as much as possible. All repeat ALL SUVs in my neighborhood are parked on the street as they are too big or too difficult to maneuver to get them into a standard new home construction garage that easily holds an Accord and a Subie OB with additional stuff like bikes, hockey gear, lawn equipment, etc.
3. Gas mileage sucks, across the board. My neighbors were requesting seizure of several oil producing nations so as to preserve low gas prices when prices went up last year. Bragging about "15 mpg with the A/C on".
4. Most are poorly constructed. I rode in a 2000 Ford Expedition (Yes, expedition), it rattled worse then my old 1984 chevy cavalier. I was afraid to tell the owner that quality was terrible.
5. Handling, enough said.
6. They are and will always be a hybrid. Never taking advantage of the advancements in car or truck features because they hybrids slapped together in a break room during lunch.
and lastly,
7. Space. It not as much as you think when you get inside.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
1) So what?
2) My buddy lives in a town house and his Trooper fits in his garage w/o a problem
3) Gas milage sux, but try towing a 3500lb boat trailer with your subie, it just wouldn't work, trust me i've tried
4) You rode in a FORD. They are not quality vehicles, sub-par at best. You are making a judgement on 1 SUV out of 100s
5) My trooper handles just fine. Most state's speed limits are 65-70mph, maybe 75. You shouldn't be weaving in and out of lanes no matter what car you drive
6) My Trooper is not a hybrid, not based off any pickup truck. Was always built as an SUV. Lots of room inside. 4 guys + camping gear for a week + 3500lb boat. Try to do that in an outback (I did try)
7) See #6
I'm a big subie fan. Almost bought an OB or Legacy wagon, but it just didn't have the power/space/towing I needed.
-mike
The 2 Bean's I test drove had a single CD player integrated with the radio. When I ordered mine, they could only find them with the 6-CD changer which sits below the radio in what was a storage area. I have no need of a 6-CD changer as I don't find removing and inserting a CD a problem; I'd rather have the storage space. By the way, I think the radio/CD player sounds excellent.
Andy
I agree with your arguments. SUV's make sense for serious camping / boating / off-roading. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people that own them do non of those things, and I would say that that is probably about 90% of those on the road. Most buy them because they are trendy; now that is stupid. If I was a serious camper, I would be embarrassed to be thought of in that light by so many. At least, buy a Hummer and leave no doubt that you are serious, or maybe a 350 series deisel truck.
Mike
Excuse my ignorance please, but what does the linking of this and the SUV board actually mean? Is there now one board.
I am not a fan of SUVs either and didn't consider one. Most of the one's I see are not used the way Mike uses them. They mostly go to the grocery store or other local errands and are driven too fast (and badly) in the snow by people who think AWD vehicles stop faster than others. I am sure that there are people like Mike who need them for their special abilities.
Andy
PS: I've seen a trooper pull a hummer out of a ditch off-roading.
-mike
I again agree with you. This is a free country; people should have the right to buy what they please. The only thing that really bothers me is the gas guzzling part; I really think it is irresponsible to waste energy. A car getting 22 MPG will use 300 less gallons a year over an SUV getting 15 mpg. At the parking lot at my grandson's soccer game, it seems that about every other vehicle is an "Eddie Bauer" Expedition.
Anyway, that is why I care because so few do.
Sorry, for getting off topic of this thread.
The other Mike
A ford festiva carrys 4 adults (supposedly) and gets much better milage than your 22mpg car, same can be said for the metro, and civic. Do those people have a leg to stand on against say a subaru with AWD that burns more gas due to the AWD system?
-mike
I have no problem with people justifying several mpg difference in the normal car range for comfort, handling, family room, safety or whatever. mpg differences in the 20+ range is not nearly as significant in gas useage as in the low teens.
Regardless, we just need to agree to disagree. I will continue to believe that it is really dumb and wasteful for a suburban family to be bouncing around in their truck to be trendy; you see it differently. so be it.
Mike
But I have a serous question to ask of the forum, what is the oil filter number for the H6 engine? And, do any manufacturers make one? I can't find a cross-reference for the H6 engine in any auto store. Thanks.
what does the linking of this and the SUV board actually mean? Is there now one board.
No, the boards remain separate. You can access this specific topic from the Station Wagons or SUV boards. This configuration broadens this topic's visibility. Perhaps some favoring an SUV will see this topic and consider a vehicle they hadn't considered (Subaru). I think it's a good thing.
..Mike
..Mike
But, at least with one of my cars, I found a solution. In my Miata I can actually see ahead of an SUV by looking under it! ;-)
-juice