I went from a 97 Prelude to an Outback, so you can imagine how much cargo space I gained -- the Prelude's trunk was like a mail slot! I have gotten tons of stuff in the back of my Outback -- a boxed Sony Wega TV (weighed 350 lbs), plywood sliced 4x4 ft (fit in diagonal), plywood cut 42" wide (fits between the wheel wells, 8 potted cypress trees, countless bags of dirt/mulch/etc, and all kinds of other stuff. When my wife and I moved earlier in the year, I was able to load the car up and it was awesome. Add the capability of a roof rack and the possibility of towing a utility trailer, and you have a vehicle that crosses the car/minivan/pickup/wagon regime pretty well.
Ed: I think Greg did consider the Forester, but the backseat is about as roomy as the Impreza, so I can't imagine it was any better for his son.
Greg: congratulations on your decision -- the CRV is a fine vehicle. The 2002 model is much improved over earlier versions and I was glad to see they finally gave it enough power. I commend your color choice too, though I was somewhat turned off by the seat cloth "graphics" when I looked at a CRV a few weeks ago.
One thing about Hondas -- the seating position (low seats, arms and legs out) and low beltline give the interior a nice open and airy feel with a great view. After owning 3 Hondas though, I actually appreciated the more "upright" seating of the Outback. I do agree with you about the impaired view out the Outback for tall people, however. At 6-1, the view is barely OK for me, and I can see how it would cause "ducking" for someone who's 6-3.
Let us know how you like the CRV when it comes in, and good luck managing your excitement -- I know it's not easy waiting for a new car.
Ohiogreg - congrats on your crv purchase. I too live in Central Ohio. It is nice to support the Home team here -- many Hondas are made in Marysville Ohio.
c_hunter - I am replacing a 92 prelude and considering outback wagon and crv! Just when you think you are original!
I am considering BOTH the CRV and the Outback and it is a tough choice. And I agree that it boils down to the interior.
Dollar for Dollar I think the CRV is a better deal at $22,000 than the other car I am considering - the LL Bean Outback for $28,000.
I've owned Hondas and Subarus (1979 Wagon) before and both are good cars.
On the CRV you gain a more functional interior and I would have to give Honda the edge in reliability and resale over Subaru. Being 6 foot 3 I appreciate the extra interior space.
The Subaru LL Bean outback has a richer interior (leather) with more features. BUT it does give up space in all but the driver's seat. Of course the big appeal of the LL Bean is the H6 and the all time AWD. Plus it has a quiet highway ride. A fairer comparison would be the H4, cloth seat outback which is about $23,000.
One thing I find in common with all Subarus is that the front PASSENGER seat is very CRAMPED in the legroom department. Just had a ride in my friends Forrester and it is the same story there -- even with the passenger seat all the way back there is very little room to stretch out my legs riding shotgun. Most of the time I would be driving but at times when the wife would take the helm on a long trip with me in the car I think I would be uncomfortable there.
Anyone else notice the lack of front passenger leg room on Subaru designs?
It may explain why Subarus seem to be more popular with women than men -- since women are generally smaller the smaller interior is less of an issue.
There have been a number of comments in the last 10 days. See posts: 3524,3545,3619 and 3634. I also had a 1996 Outback wagon with automatic and now have a 2001 LL Bean. The legroom in the 96 might be an inch better. I dislike both the old 96 and 2001 passenger seat legroom. On the drive side, my left leg cannot extend far enough to rest comfortably on the dead pedal and I find it rubbing/leaning on the door panel. It becomes annoying after 15 or 20 minutes. I bought the car based on the 96's bulletproof record and overlooked the legroom issue. No other nits to pick.
Hey guys, I am sorta new to this board. I have been reading here secretly (without being a member) for about 6 months. My wife and I are actively looking for a 2002 Outback Wagon and there are a few dealers nearby. Does anyone have any experience/info to share on central Massachusetts? We live in Winchendon, MA, which is near the VT/NH border with MA.. Near Gardner, MA or Rindge, NH. The "big city" nearest to us is either Keene, NH or Leominster, MA. We checked out Mountanview Subaru in Keene and they seem pretty cool. There is a Tristate Subaru south of Worcester that looks like the big dealer in the area but we haven't driven down there yet (it's about 1 1/2 hours away).
Any help would be great. We could probably get the same deal just about anywhere but I want to go back to the same dealer for service too. If Tristate gives us a great deal, we might have to buy it there but service it at Mountanview (only 1/2 an hour away). Has anyone had problems with getting service at a dealer where you didn't buy it? I guess that depends more on the dealer than anything... We just moved here and so far I've had a hard time finding a good Audi dealer (the Outback is for my wife).
Thanks in advance! Hopefully I can be an active participant here soon (I'm also on Audiworld if any of you are also fellow Audi owners). The AWD owners have to stick together, right?
Bozzy: good to have you join us! I have had no problems buying a Subaru at one dealer and getting it serviced at another. When I brought my 2000 Outback to a different dealer for servicing for the first time, they typed my info into the computer and it was no big deal. If you get the LL Bean, the first 3 years of maintenance are free (you get a coupon book), and this gives you even more freedom to choose where you get your service done, in my opinion.
Joseph (nowakj66): if you are coming from a Prelude, I think you will appreciate the Outback's handling over the CRV. I drove a CRV back in June 2000 when I was shopping around, and it felt like it was going to tip over on curves compared to the Prelude. Talk about night and day!! I later drove the Forester and then the Outback, and both handled great -- a happy medium. Not as good as the Prelude, but much better than the CRV (SUVs in general). I was reminded about the benefit of Subaru's car-based handling when test driving an Acura MDX recently. If handling and secure cornering are important to you, this is one area where the Subaru vehicles have an edge in my opinion.
You are right that a fairer comparison is between the base Outback and the CRV. They are about even in equipment levels, cloth seats, engines, etc. My first Outback was a base model, and I have always considered it to be a bargain for what you get. Another factor to consider is that you can get the Subarus for close to invoice, which knocks the price down another $2000 or so.
Regarding reliability, I was surprised to learn that Consumer reports rates Subaru on par or higher than most Honda models (this after being a Honda owner for many years). In terms of resale, Honda is probably better, but Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are all very good.
Craig -- thanks for the info. I find it interesting that many of us cross shop the same vehicles.
As for Honda CR-Vs being tippy feeling -- I was discussing the very same issue with my Honda dealer. He also came from a Prelude to a 2001 CR-V and had to get used to the tippiness.
The 2002 CR-V is of course an all new body style and they have addressed some of these stability issues via a wider track, longer wheel base and lower center of gravity.
I have not driven the original CR-V but the 2002 felt firmly planted. Kind of like a tall Civic.
That said I PREFER the Subaru Outback as a vehicle because it is not trying to be an SUV stylisticly.
I just may be pushed to a CR-V (on the low end of price) or a Toyota Highlander (on the high end) for a more roomy interior.
Resale on Subies is very good. I paid $19,200 for a 1998, and see them in the paper for $14-15k still (73% or more of its original value after 3+ years). So it's held its value remarkably well, at least a match for the Honda.
CR-V has aced reliability scores, but keep in mind the warranty is horrible - 3/36 with no roadside assistance. All Subies are above average and have a 67% longer powertrain warranty, plus free roadside assistance. I am considering an Odyssey and this is a huge factor in my decision.
Subarus have a great balance in many areas, like packaging/content, price/value, performance/efficiency, reliability/warranty, plus there's the full time AWD.
Having said that, you should consider all your options and choose what fits your needs best. The CR-V does have a versatile and roomy interior, but since space has become a high priority for me (2nd baby on the way) I may be pushed into a minivan.
I've been reading Subaru owner comments all over the web avidly for the past week during my decision-making process - yesterday the decision was made & this afternoon I'll be picking up my 02 LL Bean (Wintergreen - yum)! I know I'll love the car. I hope I don't rue the $$ spent. Especially since the Legacy GT was my second choice - near the bottom of the line or near the top of the line - go figure.....
It was the 3.0H6 that won me over. If only that was available w/o all the bells & whistles!
I've had Yakima racks for years, several different vehicles, so I have the bar & all the accessories (mostly kayak) I need. Is there any reason to go w/ the Subaru towers, as opposed to Yakima? Is the Subaru bar different? I believe (correct me if I'm wrong here) that Yakima makes the Subaru product? Any difference in quality/price, etc?
Oh, & speaking of bells & whistles, I do have another question. I may need to duck for this one. It's about that LL Bean badge..... Has anyone removed theirs? Any advice on how to do that w/o leaving a mark? Maybe I'll learn to live with it, but honestly, there are very very few advertising products I'm willing to endorse by wearing them, and advertising on my vehicle is.....well......let's just say I'd rather not.
Thanks to the PTB for providing such a great space for sharing of info!
No ducking necessary...my badges were gone the evening I brought the vehicle home!
Take a strong thin string (ie: waxed dental floss) and pull it tight...get it started under the lip of the decal. Once you have slipped it in there far enough, you can actually use your nails to start plucking it off. Any risidual sticky stuff (there shouldn't be any, but in case there is) can be removed by spraying some WD-40 on it and wiping with a soft cloth. This is done only after the decal/badge is removed. If you look on the photo gallery forum, you will see my wintergreen 01 bean with my 02 console modification!
Good luck....and congrat's on your choice of vehicle and color!
Juice said the L is the base Legacy but in Canada, at least, there is a lower Brighton edition. It's $2K CND less but is pretty well stripped so I don't know how many they sell.
For most decals and glued on badges, the easiest method of removal is a hairdrier. Aim it at the badge and slowly pull back. The glues are usually hot melt.
Remove any residual glue with WD40 on a rag and then wash off. Other glue removers that are very effective without hurting the paintwork are Citrus Oil (sold here as glue remover) or Eucalyptus Oil. The latter allows you to smell like a Koala for free and give your Outback the Real Aussie smell!
Interesting topic, badge removal. I have always removed the dealer badge from my cars feeling that they are not paying me to advertise for them. When I purchased my 2001 OB I expected to do the same. To my surprise the dealer actually riveted it on! Can you believe that, 2 rivets instead of glue. If I take it off it will leave 2 holes in the car! I wrote a letter to complain and they didn't even have the decency to respond. Well the dealer may think he is getting some free advertisement but believe me he is losing more business from me than the advertising is worth. I won't go back there for anything and I tell anyone who asks to go to one of the many other Subaru dealers here in Colorado. If anyone here in Colorado is considering Shortline Subaru, buyer beware!
I actually refused to take one car at delivery when I discovered that the idiot dealer had done the same thing, it is bad enough when they stick them on but to actually drill holes,well thats a rust spot waiting to happen.
I now inform the dealer at purchase that if I see any of his nameplates at delivery the car stays on his lot.
Count me in with Pat. I put in in writing (in the purchase agreement) that the car is to be delivered without any type of dealer emblem, plate, decal of any sort or the deal is off. I can live (for about the time it takes to drive home) with their disposable license plate holders.
Congratulations on the LL Bean, it's a great car. I agree with your assesment -- my ideal car would be the base Outback with cloth seats, all weather package, and an H6 with 5-spd.
Yes, Yakima makes the Subaru rack accesories. At one time, we had access to a Subaru dealer in TN that sold the Subaru badged stuff for less than you'd pay for Yakima, but now you pretty much get the best deal with the Yakima stuff (especially if you have your own crossbars). I bought a set of 4 Yakima "Double Cross" towers for $110, and used my old crossbars, lock cores, and the rest of my kayak and ski attachments. The Double Cross kit comes with new end caps for your cross bars.
I just checked the Yakima website and noticed two things: 1) the Double Cross is now priced at $115 (some of their web pages incorreclty list it as $155), and 2) they have a new mount called the Low Rider which looks a little more compact (also priced at $115).
I'll go to the local sporting goods store (where my friend works ) & hopefully will be able to trade a set of not-so-old towers for new ones. Can't afford much of anything at new prices now that I've spent it all..... ;-)
Anyone out there have any suggestions on a luggage carrier for the OB wagon with the dual sun roofs? I was looking for a carrier a little less expensive than the dealer's $400 one and don't want to damage the sun roof(s). When I got my OB, the salesman said to go to Sears and get one of their carriers. Has anyone with a sun roof actually tried the Sears brand or any others?
Anyone out there have the dog barrier and think it's worth the $165? My dog doesn't jump through, but if you are a back seat passenger when she's in the car you'll get your head washed. The Subaru barrier is of course a perfect fit and isn't a tension connection between the floor and roof, which seems nice. The price seems a little much, though.
Way to go, Pat. I debadged mine as soon as I got home. The sooner you do it, the less glue residue stays on.
You can reverse the license plate holders and use them as frames for the front plate.
Mayme: Sears has good ones, and the new ones are black and much better looking than the X-Cargo models. I've also seen carriers at Trick Trucks and at Pep Boys, so check local auto and truck parts stores. Both places even offered installation.
An LL Bean 5 speed would be sweet. It would even cost about $800 less. I hope Subaru at least goes to a 5 speed automatic soon.
Just thought I'd let you know that the debadging operation took less than 2 minutes, and most of that time was getting the dental floss from the bathroom to the car. Could not have been easier, and the minor bit of glue residue wiped off with a rag swipe. (Maybe I'll christen it with a drop of that Eucalyptus Oil). Hmmm.....I'll have to think of a name now. The Beaner doesn't quite do it....
And so far I LOVE this vehicle! Can't wait to actually GO somewhere with it!
Hi All! I am new to the list and have been an Outback owner for over 2 years. I do have a question that I hope someone out there might be able to enlighten me a bit. I have a 1999 Subaru Outback automatic with 72k miles. I purchased the vehicle with 10k miles and have enjoyed it from that point on. Here is my concern. When the car is cold (no more than 3 miles or so, or 5-10 mins of drive time) the transmission slips when shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear. The more throttle applied the worse the slip is. If the car downshifts from 3rd to 2nd (if entering a highway or passing), it "slams" into second with a loud "thud" or "bang". Something in the milk just isn't right! Now one thing I do have to mention is that the transmission has been slipping for 30k to 40k miles. However, it was hardly noticeable for quite some time, but has obviously been getting worse. The fluid level is at recommended level and had been changed around 30k miles. I plan to have it serviced during the month but wanted some other inputs as to what the problem might be? Any help or advice would be wonderful! Thanks!
Ted: go ahead and flush the ATF again. It's due for it anyway. Make sure the shop has one of those machines that forces new ATF in, and sucks the old stuff out. That gets all the old, contaminated fluid out.
Let's hope that helps, it's certainly the cheapest thing to try. A rebuilt tranny would run probably about $2 grand.
I always specify in the sales agreement that I won't take delivery if any decals or badges are added to the car after its manufactured. I reference the page number(s) in the sales brochure that shows front and rear views of the car without any "add on" badges.
We have the dog barrier and it works great. Our Cocker Spaniel would surely jump over the back seat and try to sit with us up front if the barrier wasn't there. She likes to sleep on her bed in the back when she's not busy barking at 18 wheelers. My wife is thinking that we should buy a dog car harness and have her restrained with a rear seat belt for her safety. If we do that we'll need to cover the leather seats so her claws won't scratch the seats.
Who changed your tranny fluid 30K miles ago and what fluid was put in? Sounds like the change coincided with your problems. I know some have reported smoother shifts when they migrated to synthetic ATF. Just a thought. Good luck.
I had a dog gate for my old car (the kind that work by compression between roof and floor $70 I think) and putting it in my gt, I did not like the idea of it pushing against headliner where the sun roof mechs. are. So I bought the subie one and it fits right (though over built) worth the money. I just had to modify it slightly for the child seat tethers (i.e. three holes). Someone had trouble inserting/removing tethers into the restraints on their wagon - here is my technique: insert the clip upside down - towards the back of the car, so that after it rotates around to the right angle, the spring and opening are facing down. just reverse to remove - no fighting. -steve-v santa cruz
I used my GT wagon to tow my VW squareback on a dolly to my fathers to replace the headliner. weight of car 2200lbs + 3-400 lbs for the dolly = much higher than 1000lb unbraked limit (don't try this at home kids) this was towing up and over the coastal range 30mi/1200' 50 mph curves -the car did GREAT! it was happy with 50mph up and 45 down. breaking was heavy but not bad. I don't want to have to doit again (not prudent as they say) but possible. -steve
I picked up the standard cargo basket. It comes with mounting clips for the dual crossbars on the LLbean that are standard. The baslet also has a spider bungee net. It cost about $115 through the dealer. I have used it twice with two large pieces of luggage and a cooler. The neat thing is the sides of the cargo basket have these little hooks that are just the right size to hold a hockey stick on each side! I don't have to have them inside the car when traveling.
Steve, Most tow ratings can safely be exceeded by 30-40%, engineers like to build in safety margins. I just finished towing a 5000lb trailer 350+ miles from Pittsburg to NYC with my trooper which is rated at 5K towing. I was doing 75mph up and down the hills of PA. I figure I could probably exceed it if needed but like you said you don't want to do it often.
purchased Winter Wheel package from TireRack (Blizzaks on steel wheels=$600 incl. shipping).
Arrived in four days: just in time for the Northeast's first nasty road event of the season (last Saturday).
Installed all four in less than 30 minutes, while the snow and freezing rain were falling, using only the OEM jack (and my trusty clicker torque wrench: the OEM lug wrench is only suitable for prying lids off of paint cans, provided they're not too sticky).
Drove to the grocery store for emergency-Christmas-cookie-baking-supplies by order of my wife and daughter. Only a few other cars in the parking lot: half of them were Outbacks!
Report: not so much as a twitch of slippage! Those Blizzaks are everything promised: they held the road like velcro even on slick turns. No major increase in noise or loss of ride comfort that I can (yet) discern. After struggling through two winters with the OEM tires (Wilderness) I KNOW for a fact I wouldn't have made it there and back without a lot of white-knuckle cursing.
Recommendation: If you live in snowy climes, BUY THOSE WINTER TIRES! In the end they're free! Yup, FREE! Figure it like this: In 8-10 years you'll go through at least two sets of tires. But with winter tires you'll be dividing the wear between the two sets and may not need to invest in any more before you trade up for that 2008 Exiga. The $200 for the steel wheels will reduce the cost of maintenance and possible replacement from salt-corrosion on your alloy rims; so consider that a wash as well! And the bonus is that you won't have to pay the deductible for all those winter accidents you'll now be avoiding. Oh, why did I wait so long. Don't be a fool...save yourself before its too late!!!
Oops, I let alittle Jacob Marley slip in there, Have a very safe and festive Christmas, YetAnotherDave
Just my 2 cents on the Subaru dog barrier...I hate the thing and have stopped using it. No matter how hard I crank that thing down, it will fall on top of the dogs if they lean on bottom of the gate (the part at seat level). I have asked both dogs to stop leaning on that part of the gate but they don't seem to understand me. Additionally, the gate has scratched the bejesus out of the plastic panels where they mount up. If you have small dogs, this may not be an issue -- but I have not had one car trip in the several months of gate-use that did not traumatize my dogs with a falling cage...it always seems to happen on the highway at 70mph or in heavy traffic -- any time where it is most inconvenient to quickly get to the side of the road to get the gate off the dogs. Wanna buy a used pet gate?! I won't be using mine...
Are the Bridgestone All-season M+S tires that come on the 2002 Outback good enough for snow? Did the OEM tires change at some point, we don't have 'Wilderness' Tires, I think they are Potenza M+S. The tread pattern on them looks pretty decent. In a related note, we brought home our new car last night! It's a 2002 Outback Wagon, Timberline Green, AT. Looks sweet. My wife loves it. Feels awesome on the road. We were very happy with the dealer, Mountainview Subaru in Keene, NH.
Any newbie tips I should know about? Like, for example, are those snow tires desperately needed? So far, the OEM's seem to grip pretty well.
Congrats on the new car, I am sure you will be very happy with it. I am on my 2nd Timberline wagon and like the color a lot, though I have strange dreams about that new regatta red color . . . .
The only newbie tip I will pass on is to check your tire pressure whenever the seasons/temps change, and make sure you either go with the recommended 30F/29R or slightly higher pressures to your liking, being sure to maintain that 1psi difference front to back (it evens out the rolling diameters so the AWD can sense slippage correctly). Otherwise, just go out and have fun with the car -- they are great for that.
As for your tire question, it induces a chuckle from me, not because it's funny, but because it reminds me of the Potenzas I had on a Honda which were laughable in the snow and rain, especially when they wore down some. I can't comment on how the 2002 Outback tires will perform in snow, since I rarely see any of the whitte stuff in VA. But if the Outback's Potenzas are anything like my Honda's, then I wouldn't expect too much. The Wilderness tires on my 2000 Outback were OK in the snow, but not anything great.
As Dave Peterson noted, good snow tires make a huge difference (on any car). if you get a lot of winter weather (as I did when I lived in MA) it might be worth the investment. Based on my experience with Blizzaks on a FWD car, I know the Outback would be awesome with those tires. They improve winter handling and braking immensely.
Jason - Congratulations on your new "baby". I wish you lots of luck. I too am waiting for the first good snow storm to check out the Firestones (and OB). Hopefully soon.
Craig - I was not aware that keeping the tire pressure in the back 1 PSI lower helps with slippage detection. Can you explain more?
I'm looking at a base Outback wagon, 5-speed, New York city area. So far the best price I've gotten is $500 over invoice; from what I've read here, this is high.Would appreciate it if anyone could give me a better idea what the price should be. Thanks.
I just picked up a Thule Evolution 1200 box this weekend. It is a new model that was aerodynamically designed. I have it on the Subaru aero cross bars and the entire set up makes no wind noise. This new design is great, it opens to either side with a simple turn of a key. A huge improvement over older boxes- it also looks really nice (painted ABS). It is long enough to carry skis, (5-9 pr., 12 cu ft.) I am not sure how it would work with your dual sunroofs, but I wouldn't think it would be a problem. It retails for $300 and was on sale for $238- about half what these used to cost a few years ago and almost twice as nice. If you luggage isn't a big cube then this box would be much better than those squarish boxes Sears sells. After picking it up my wife and I went on a mini 4 day ski vacation and on the way there spent one night at a campground. We put our skis and some gear in the new ski box, and some bags in the passenger seat. We then inflated a couple therm-a-rests and slept in the back with the seats folded down. It was very convenient and quite comfortable. I'm 6'2", so I put my feet up between the front seats for part of the night and then kitty-corner for the rest. It was slightly below freezing during the night, but it was fine with sleeping bags.
Subaru AWD systems detect slippage by "reacting" (mechanically or otherwise) to differences in rotational speed amongst the various wheels, which is why it's so important to keep the rolling perimeter consistent with the recommended specs. I am assuming the 30F/29R balance is required because of the vehicle's weight distribution, but it may be some other factor -- anybody else know?
I was inflating psi @ 32F/31R years ago. Now I have the psi @ 35F/34R. Like the handling better; and the ride, not much different from 32F/31R (tires = Michelin MXV4 Energy).
Comments
Ed: I think Greg did consider the Forester, but the backseat is about as roomy as the Impreza, so I can't imagine it was any better for his son.
Greg: congratulations on your decision -- the CRV is a fine vehicle. The 2002 model is much improved over earlier versions and I was glad to see they finally gave it enough power. I commend your color choice too, though I was somewhat turned off by the seat cloth "graphics" when I looked at a CRV a few weeks ago.
One thing about Hondas -- the seating position (low seats, arms and legs out) and low beltline give the interior a nice open and airy feel with a great view. After owning 3 Hondas though, I actually appreciated the more "upright" seating of the Outback. I do agree with you about the impaired view out the Outback for tall people, however. At 6-1, the view is barely OK for me, and I can see how it would cause "ducking" for someone who's 6-3.
Let us know how you like the CRV when it comes in, and good luck managing your excitement -- I know it's not easy waiting for a new car.
Craig
c_hunter - I am replacing a 92 prelude and considering outback wagon and crv! Just when you think you are original!
I am considering BOTH the CRV and the Outback and it is a tough choice. And I agree that it boils down to the interior.
Dollar for Dollar I think the CRV is a better deal at $22,000 than the other car I am considering - the LL Bean Outback for $28,000.
I've owned Hondas and Subarus (1979 Wagon) before and both are good cars.
On the CRV you gain a more functional interior and I would have to give Honda the edge in reliability and resale over Subaru. Being 6 foot 3 I appreciate the extra interior space.
The Subaru LL Bean outback has a richer interior (leather) with more features. BUT it does give up space in all but the driver's seat. Of course the big appeal of the LL Bean is the H6 and the all time AWD. Plus it has a quiet highway ride. A fairer comparison would be the H4, cloth seat outback which is about $23,000.
One thing I find in common with all Subarus is that the front PASSENGER seat is very CRAMPED in the legroom department. Just had a ride in my friends Forrester and it is the same story there -- even with the passenger seat all the way back there is very little room to stretch out my legs riding shotgun. Most of the time I would be driving but at times when the wife would take the helm on a long trip with me in the car I think I would be uncomfortable there.
Anyone else notice the lack of front passenger leg room on Subaru designs?
It may explain why Subarus seem to be more popular with women than men -- since women are generally smaller the smaller interior is less of an issue.
I also had a 1996 Outback wagon with automatic and now have a 2001 LL Bean. The legroom in the 96 might be an inch better.
I dislike both the old 96 and 2001 passenger seat legroom. On the drive side, my left leg cannot extend far enough to rest comfortably on the dead pedal and I find it rubbing/leaning on the door panel. It becomes annoying after 15 or 20 minutes.
I bought the car based on the 96's bulletproof record and overlooked the legroom issue. No other nits to pick.
Any help would be great. We could probably get the same deal just about anywhere but I want to go back to the same dealer for service too. If Tristate gives us a great deal, we might have to buy it there but service it at Mountanview (only 1/2 an hour away). Has anyone had problems with getting service at a dealer where you didn't buy it? I guess that depends more on the dealer than anything... We just moved here and so far I've had a hard time finding a good Audi dealer (the Outback is for my wife).
Thanks in advance! Hopefully I can be an active participant here soon (I'm also on Audiworld if any of you are also fellow Audi owners). The AWD owners have to stick together, right?
-Jason Boswell (Bozzy)
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SUVs
Joseph (nowakj66): if you are coming from a Prelude, I think you will appreciate the Outback's handling over the CRV. I drove a CRV back in June 2000 when I was shopping around, and it felt like it was going to tip over on curves compared to the Prelude. Talk about night and day!! I later drove the Forester and then the Outback, and both handled great -- a happy medium. Not as good as the Prelude, but much better than the CRV (SUVs in general). I was reminded about the benefit of Subaru's car-based handling when test driving an Acura MDX recently. If handling and secure cornering are important to you, this is one area where the Subaru vehicles have an edge in my opinion.
You are right that a fairer comparison is between the base Outback and the CRV. They are about even in equipment levels, cloth seats, engines, etc. My first Outback was a base model, and I have always considered it to be a bargain for what you get. Another factor to consider is that you can get the Subarus for close to invoice, which knocks the price down another $2000 or so.
Regarding reliability, I was surprised to learn that Consumer reports rates Subaru on par or higher than most Honda models (this after being a Honda owner for many years). In terms of resale, Honda is probably better, but Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are all very good.
Craig
As for Honda CR-Vs being tippy feeling -- I was discussing the very same issue with my Honda dealer. He also came from a Prelude to a 2001 CR-V and had to get used to the tippiness.
The 2002 CR-V is of course an all new body style and they have addressed some of these stability issues via a wider track, longer wheel base and lower center of gravity.
I have not driven the original CR-V but the 2002 felt firmly planted. Kind of like a tall Civic.
That said I PREFER the Subaru Outback as a vehicle because it is not trying to be an SUV stylisticly.
I just may be pushed to a CR-V (on the low end of price) or a Toyota Highlander (on the high end) for a more roomy interior.
CR-V has aced reliability scores, but keep in mind the warranty is horrible - 3/36 with no roadside assistance. All Subies are above average and have a 67% longer powertrain warranty, plus free roadside assistance. I am considering an Odyssey and this is a huge factor in my decision.
Subarus have a great balance in many areas, like packaging/content, price/value, performance/efficiency, reliability/warranty, plus there's the full time AWD.
Having said that, you should consider all your options and choose what fits your needs best. The CR-V does have a versatile and roomy interior, but since space has become a high priority for me (2nd baby on the way) I may be pushed into a minivan.
-juice
I've been reading Subaru owner comments all over the web avidly for the past week during my decision-making process - yesterday the decision was made & this afternoon I'll be picking up my 02 LL Bean (Wintergreen - yum)! I know I'll love the car. I hope I don't rue the $$ spent. Especially since the Legacy GT was my second choice - near the bottom of the line or near the top of the line - go figure.....
It was the 3.0H6 that won me over. If only that was available w/o all the bells & whistles!
I've had Yakima racks for years, several different vehicles, so I have the bar & all the accessories (mostly kayak) I need. Is there any reason to go w/ the Subaru towers, as opposed to Yakima? Is the Subaru bar different? I believe (correct me if I'm wrong here) that Yakima makes the Subaru product? Any difference in quality/price, etc?
Oh, & speaking of bells & whistles, I do have another question. I may need to duck for this one. It's about that LL Bean badge..... Has anyone removed theirs? Any advice on how to do that w/o leaving a mark? Maybe I'll learn to live with it, but honestly, there are very very few advertising products I'm willing to endorse by wearing them, and advertising on my vehicle is.....well......let's just say I'd rather not.
Thanks to the PTB for providing such a great space for sharing of info!
Jillian
The bottom of the line is actually the Legacy L, but even that is very well equipped (comparable to most competitors' mid-line models).
-juice
No ducking necessary...my badges were gone the evening I brought the vehicle home!
Take a strong thin string (ie: waxed dental floss) and pull it tight...get it started under the lip of the decal. Once you have slipped it in there far enough, you can actually use your nails to start plucking it off. Any risidual sticky stuff (there shouldn't be any, but in case there is) can be removed by spraying some WD-40 on it and wiping with a soft cloth. This is done only after the decal/badge is removed. If you look on the photo gallery forum, you will see my wintergreen 01 bean with my 02 console modification!
Good luck....and congrat's on your choice of vehicle and color!
-r
-juice
For most decals and glued on badges, the easiest method of removal is a hairdrier. Aim it at the badge and slowly pull back. The glues are usually hot melt.
Remove any residual glue with WD40 on a rag and then wash off. Other glue removers that are very effective without hurting the paintwork are Citrus Oil (sold here as glue remover) or Eucalyptus Oil. The latter allows you to smell like a Koala for free and give your Outback the Real Aussie smell!
Cheers
Graham
Cheers!
Paul
Phill
I now inform the dealer at purchase that if I see any of his nameplates at delivery the car stays on his lot.
Cheers Pat.
Ken in Seattle
Yes, Yakima makes the Subaru rack accesories. At one time, we had access to a Subaru dealer in TN that sold the Subaru badged stuff for less than you'd pay for Yakima, but now you pretty much get the best deal with the Yakima stuff (especially if you have your own crossbars). I bought a set of 4 Yakima "Double Cross" towers for $110, and used my old crossbars, lock cores, and the rest of my kayak and ski attachments. The Double Cross kit comes with new end caps for your cross bars.
I just checked the Yakima website and noticed two things: 1) the Double Cross is now priced at $115 (some of their web pages incorreclty list it as $155), and 2) they have a new mount called the Low Rider which looks a little more compact (also priced at $115).
Craig
I'll go to the local sporting goods store (where my friend works
Thanks.
Mayme Grim
You can reverse the license plate holders and use them as frames for the front plate.
Mayme: Sears has good ones, and the new ones are black and much better looking than the X-Cargo models. I've also seen carriers at Trick Trucks and at Pep Boys, so check local auto and truck parts stores. Both places even offered installation.
An LL Bean 5 speed would be sweet. It would even cost about $800 less. I hope Subaru at least goes to a 5 speed automatic soon.
-juice
And so far I LOVE this vehicle! Can't wait to actually GO somewhere with it!
Jillian
Thanks!
Ted: go ahead and flush the ATF again. It's due for it anyway. Make sure the shop has one of those machines that forces new ATF in, and sucks the old stuff out. That gets all the old, contaminated fluid out.
Let's hope that helps, it's certainly the cheapest thing to try. A rebuilt tranny would run probably about $2 grand.
-juice
Cheers!
We have the dog barrier and it works great. Our Cocker Spaniel would surely jump over the back seat and try to sit with us up front if the barrier wasn't there. She likes to sleep on her bed in the back when she's not busy barking at 18 wheelers. My wife is thinking that we should buy a dog car harness and have her restrained with a rear seat belt for her safety. If we do that we'll need to cover the leather seats so her claws won't scratch the seats.
Vince
Greg
Someone had trouble inserting/removing tethers into the restraints on their wagon - here is my technique: insert the clip upside down - towards the back of the car, so that after it rotates around to the right angle, the spring and opening are facing down. just reverse to remove - no fighting.
-steve-v
santa cruz
this was towing up and over the coastal range 30mi/1200' 50 mph curves -the car did GREAT! it was happy with 50mph up and 45 down. breaking was heavy but not bad. I don't want to have to doit again (not prudent as they say) but possible.
-steve
Most tow ratings can safely be exceeded by 30-40%, engineers like to build in safety margins. I just finished towing a 5000lb trailer 350+ miles from Pittsburg to NYC with my trooper which is rated at 5K towing. I was doing 75mph up and down the hills of PA. I figure I could probably exceed it if needed but like you said you don't want to do it often.
-mike
Hockey stick hooks? These guys know their buyers.
-juice
purchased Winter Wheel package from TireRack (Blizzaks on steel wheels=$600 incl. shipping).
Arrived in four days: just in time for the Northeast's first nasty road event of the season (last Saturday).
Installed all four in less than 30 minutes, while the snow and freezing rain were falling, using only the OEM jack (and my trusty clicker torque wrench: the OEM lug wrench is only suitable for prying lids off of paint cans, provided they're not too sticky).
Drove to the grocery store for emergency-Christmas-cookie-baking-supplies by order of my wife and daughter. Only a few other cars in the parking lot: half of them were Outbacks!
Report: not so much as a twitch of slippage! Those Blizzaks are everything promised: they held the road like velcro even on slick turns. No major increase in noise or loss of ride comfort that I can (yet) discern. After struggling through two winters with the OEM tires (Wilderness) I KNOW for a fact I wouldn't have made it there and back without a lot of white-knuckle cursing.
Recommendation: If you live in snowy climes, BUY THOSE WINTER TIRES! In the end they're free! Yup, FREE! Figure it like this: In 8-10 years you'll go through at least two sets of tires. But with winter tires you'll be dividing the wear between the two sets and may not need to invest in any more before you trade up for that 2008 Exiga. The $200 for the steel wheels will reduce the cost of maintenance and possible replacement from salt-corrosion on your alloy rims; so consider that a wash as well! And the bonus is that you won't have to pay the deductible for all those winter accidents you'll now be avoiding. Oh, why did I wait so long. Don't be a fool...save yourself before its too late!!!
Oops, I let alittle Jacob Marley slip in there,
Have a very safe and festive Christmas,
YetAnotherDave
I'm sure the snow tires are awesome. Nice price.
-juice
-juice
Any newbie tips I should know about? Like, for example, are those snow tires desperately needed? So far, the OEM's seem to grip pretty well.
TIA,
Jason B.
The only newbie tip I will pass on is to check your tire pressure whenever the seasons/temps change, and make sure you either go with the recommended 30F/29R or slightly higher pressures to your liking, being sure to maintain that 1psi difference front to back (it evens out the rolling diameters so the AWD can sense slippage correctly). Otherwise, just go out and have fun with the car -- they are great for that.
As for your tire question, it induces a chuckle from me, not because it's funny, but because it reminds me of the Potenzas I had on a Honda which were laughable in the snow and rain, especially when they wore down some. I can't comment on how the 2002 Outback tires will perform in snow, since I rarely see any of the whitte stuff in VA. But if the Outback's Potenzas are anything like my Honda's, then I wouldn't expect too much. The Wilderness tires on my 2000 Outback were OK in the snow, but not anything great.
As Dave Peterson noted, good snow tires make a huge difference (on any car). if you get a lot of winter weather (as I did when I lived in MA) it might be worth the investment. Based on my experience with Blizzaks on a FWD car, I know the Outback would be awesome with those tires. They improve winter handling and braking immensely.
Craig
Craig - I was not aware that keeping the tire pressure in the back 1 PSI lower helps with slippage detection. Can you explain more?
Greg
Greg
After picking it up my wife and I went on a mini 4 day ski vacation and on the way there spent one night at a campground. We put our skis and some gear in the new ski box, and some bags in the passenger seat. We then inflated a couple therm-a-rests and slept in the back with the seats folded down. It was very convenient and quite comfortable. I'm 6'2", so I put my feet up between the front seats for part of the night and then kitty-corner for the rest. It was slightly below freezing during the night, but it was fine with sleeping bags.
Craig
-Brian
Now I have the psi @ 35F/34R. Like the handling better; and the ride, not much different from 32F/31R (tires = Michelin MXV4 Energy).
-Dave