Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Full Sized Vans
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Find me a web site on how best to care for the top of a full size van and I will agree with everything you say.
Man, it's is a job taking care of a van "roof". Washing the thing is not so bad, but if your into hand waxing, forget it!
Perhaps I should hire "xfiles" to come down here and modify my garage with some sort of "catwalk" system.
At this point, I am thinking two large heavy duty step ladders and a couple long 2x12's......
Still, I don't think you will have a problem in the long run. Mine should just wash off. I told them not to wash.
For other defects, the front headliner where it meets the rear headliner (behind front seat) has about a 4 inch tear at the front headliner edge,and it likely happened from pushing on the edge to make it snap into place (slightly visible only). The foam liner is broken at that very edge. So I think I will be pushing for a new one, gluing will not do because the cloth has to be able to wrap about 1 inch over the edge of the liner, and the tear is right on the edge. On hot summers, this edge tear would likely open up.
Also found what seemed like a few glue spots (1/2inch)on the ceiling near the barn doors for the rear head liner. I am deciding if I should do anything about that, live with it or not. Problem is when they remove that larger 12 foot headliner they may do more damage then good, or bend a few clips putting it back on.
Last defect involves a bit of buffing on the right front door and right barn door....nothing major. Rest of body was perfect. I'm picking it up on Friday.... so they can do the work. Don't have time to pick it up sooner ...and I am getting a bit impatient. LOL.
Interesting thing though, I am not sure but feel they upgraded to a newer dashboard....same design but much softer padding which gives it a more elegant look. Seems they also improved the rear cargo doors for fit. They use to be so tight (less then 1 mm gaps it seemed)on the outer edges, and now they left a good 1/8 inch or more.
Also new for this year was improved torque converter, handles, longer lasting brakes, ignition locks, radios.
One thing that I didn't like! They mentioned "weight tax", but they didn't know how much it would be till the mfr sets it. Well $540 is rediculous. Bet they charge me tax on the weight tax!
I liked the Chevy Dash much better than what Ford has. Trouble is, when push came to shove, I could not "find" a Chevy on any dealers lot, so the Ford came in much cheaper (that and the fact it was a new 2000 saved me even more money).
Had I needed to order, I would have gone with the Chevy for several reasons, one being the dash and another being the extra leg room in the front.
Remember this about rail dust......you won't be able to see it until it has already started to rust (months later). The best way to check for it now is with cellophane (spelling?). Another way is to put your hand inside a plastic bag and feel the surface of your paint and glass. The plastic will exaggerate any bumps (rail dust).
Myself, after learning what I did, you can bet the first step I will be taking with any new car is a chemical wash. Out of sight, Out of mind is not a safe game plan when it comes to "rail dust".
You might also consider "claying" with a non-abrasive clay as part of your initial "detail". However, I would check into the Ford Chemicals to "neutralize" the Iron particles first. Trust me, if your van shipped by rail, the rail dust is on your paint. If you can't yet see it, it is only because it has not had time to start rusting (that and the color of your auto may be hiding it, mine was white, so it could not escape).
Feel for the bumps, particularly on the horizontal surfaces (like that hard to reach roof). Mine is also on the small window ledges and hood of my van. The roof is the worst however.
Of course, all this only really matters if you plan on keeping your van for more than 3 years. Myself, I like to keep a car at least 10 (my Volvo is now 5 and won't be replaced until my van is 5).
Weight tax.....if I was in America I would be insisting the dealer show me the actual bill from Chevy. That is a new one on me. Must be a Canadian thing.
Guess you got to pay for that free health care somehow.
vguard
"Do any members have information regarding the long term effect of rail dust on the surface of a new truck?
Shortly after a purchase of a 01 Dodge Dally Pickup I noticed tiny rust spots all over vehicle even on the glass and plexiglass. To make this long saga short, Chrysler has buffed and clayed vehicle and much rail dust is still on vehicle. To compound this the roof and pillars of the truck are now badly scratched by their quality work and after reneging on a replacement truck Chrysler has blown me off.
I would appreciate any advice about treating the surface or is a repaint without stripping to bare metal a solution. Oh yea this is my last Dodge product"!
The problem is very real. BEWARE
"god bless chemicals and clay"
(will x-files resist?)
This link, while not specific to vans, has some great info (and products):
http://www.carcarespecialties.com/howto_articles.html
A neighbor has an attachment for his hose. It's essentially an extendable rod with a soft wash pad on the end that rotates when water flows through it. You add your car wash and it mixes like a lawn sprayer would. I wouldn't trust it not to leave swirl marks if the vehicle was real dirty, but it sure makes it look easy. I think you can get them at Kmart or Walmart. As for waxing, I've seen nothing, but maybe an orbital buffer on a pole would be something for a good entrepreneur?
My $0.02
Because they are repainting the roof, I will end up with not only a "rail dust free" roof, but more paint than the average van roof ever has.
Without a doubt, I will rig up something to get a good thick coat of wax on that roof, at least two times a year (if not 3).
The worst looking part of an old full size van is always the roof. People just forget about it I guess.
I was very pleased when the body shop told me they were going to paint the entire roof. For one thing, they give a life time warranty on any paint they shoot....which is much better than the Ford paint warranty.
Translation: lifetime warranty on my van's roof finish. (Provided I wax of course)
1) Before any primer is applied to the bare sanded
metal, it is treated with a rust eater. Metal
begins to rust almost immediately. Standard
procedure.
2) Priming metal- the best is Epoxy Primer!
All other primers that are lacquer, enamel
based allow moisture to go through. Epoxy is
so durable that you can drive the car for
months, so it's super for long term projects
such as antique restorations. You can even add
filler over the epoxy, then sand it, and epoxy
spray again. Urethane is also very tough on
lacquer primers (will blister), so epoxy is
the way to go. I found out this the hard way,
had to remove it off half my car, luckily
lacquer thinner washed it off very easily.
3) Final Finish- stick to urethane (including
clear coat). This you want in writing because
it costs about 2 1/3x more per quart. Another
friend of mine asked for urethane and got
enamel (they didn;t have a fresh air source
for the paint booth or bottled air). To avoid a
health hazard (stuff is deadly...it absorbs
through skin and can cause a heart attack and
permanent respiratory damage) they switched it
on him. Seems not all shops have the necessary
fresh air source, or bottled air, so they might
scam you. Lot of shops, especially do it
yourself places only use enamel based paint.
Urethane is so tough that it is considered almost as good as factory original baked on finish. My buddy repainted a limo recently. Well, I watched the job, and a 4 days later I went through the car wash with him (contact style wash)....and there was no damage, try that with enamel based paints. I then decided to paint my car in urethane myself. This stuff drys real fast chemically, enamels take forever to dry. Urethane is king of paints.
To test, acrylic lacquer thinner will not remove urethane, but will remove all other finishes including lacquer and enamels.
They have been shipping vehicles for years, why a rail dust problem now? I asked the salesman at my dealer, and non had heard of it. On Friday when I pick the van up, I will talk to the body shop guys there and let you know what's up!
You pay all this money, and it is interesting that both you and myself have had to deal with paint damage (scuffing in my case), or other problems. Have you had any other defects that you found? Well, I hope those guys know how to buff paint! My luck they will hit bare metal. They only have a deposit from me so far....LOL! It better look good!
My sales rep knew all about rail dust, although he never mentioned it "before" the sale was final. However, when I asked him what he knew about rail dust after the fact (by several days), his first words were, "It's a [non-permissible content removed] to deal with".
As for what type paint they are going to use, I have no idea. Man, this car purchasing stuff is getting more and more complicated every year. Not only do you have to follow the safety stuff...but you need an advanced degree in "Rail Dustology" and now it appeas a minor in "Auto Paintology" would not be a bad idea either.
If I could, it would be beer and pizza on me for everyone (Dplachta, Caviller, Mrnimmo, Vguard). Hey, would pizza make it across the border (Canadian Customs) or would the beagles working for customs get to it first? I probably would be charged a "weight tax" on the pizza. Hey, what is better for the waist line ....light or heavy pizza, and what happens if it falls over (roll over)? What is the safest way of "handling" pizza to avoid a lip injury? LOL
Seems digit 11 refers to assembly plant, and the first digit refers to country of origin (in my case code 1 or U.S.). The assembly plant was Oshawa, Ontario, Canada...placing it within 65 miles of my home. I doubt it was shipped by rail. Rail is usually for massive bulk, and trucks are used for breaking bulk (to final destination points).
Checking your serial number should be the first step in deciding if rail dust is a likely problem.
Here is the information for GMC (The eleventh character in your serial number denotes the assembly plant as follows):
B = Baltimore, MD
E = Pontiac East, MI
F = Flint, MI
J = Janesville, WI
S = St. Louis, MO
V = Pontiac, MI
Z = Fort Wayne, IN
0 = Pontiac, MI
1 = Oshawa, ON
2 = Moraine, OH
3 = Detroit, MI
4 = Scarborough, ON
7 = Lordstown, OH
8 = Shreveport, LA
Unfortunately I found nothing on Ford Vans in my 1969-91 Haynes Manual.
You can also look at the bottom of your window sticker. On the Ford version at least it has a spot for "final assembly point".
I bet your right, that yours was trucked in. However, it may have sat at a rail yard waiting for a truck and could have been exposed that way as well.
If it was me, I would order some of those Ford chemicals and do the wash myself.....If you want, I will get the exact part numbers from the body guy when I pick up my van Fri. I think he said it ran about 32.00 each (for 1 gal of each).
I am planning on buying them and re-washing my van in about 6 months, just to be sure.
Are you getting your van Friday? I am (well, getting it back anyway), and I can hardly wait.
Fords also also has a huge modern painting facility they built about 5 -7 years ago near Toronto (same area as Oshawa). I'm sure they have others.
I hope things turn out well with your vehicle. It's not right they put you through that, a repaint doesn't seem fair, you almost want to push the lemon law in their face.
Yup, I pick my van up on Friday at 11AM and will take it for a long cruise! Hope it doesn't break down on that drive. I am supposed to also have an appointment with an upholstery store for the front headliner to be replaced. I don't even like the idea someone will be tearing it apart, even though I have done this job myself. He better have CLEAN FINGERS! I plan on being there watching. LOL. As you can see, I don't trust others to do repairs, so I have always done my own.
Your right about it being called the VIN number, it through me off because that is what was used for the title, yet further down it uses the VIN designation.
Is the body guy doing a chemical wash now, or are you picking it up from a paint job on the roof?
I enquired about a GMC shop manual from the dealer. Seems they are now $210 CDN.....yikes! I wonder if there is any source on the net for manuals or a website with free downloads.
Good luck!
The ride is incredible, it is super quiet (once noise goes away), and rock solid, also the tranny shifts real smoothly. I was expecting some rattles, this thing had absolutely not even a single rattle, even held up over railway tracks. Now this brings up rail dust....seems you cannot rely on the VIN number for the assembly destination as we discussed. On the window sticker it showed final assembly was in Wentzville, MO. So I may have to deal with rail dust too.....give me a break!
The tranny specialist also felt that it was a seal problem, once the oil warms up, and oil distributes, the seal swells and the problem goes away. So he felt I was getting slippage of the clutch plates to make the noise that sounded like the dog house was removed.
How did it go with your van? Hope your pleased!
However, this does give you the chance to re-think the entire thing.....lol
Go look at the Ford Chateau....quad captains chairs...and the Ford Chateau, unlike the Chevy LT can be ordered in the 1 Ton version (E-350).
I can't tell you how much I love the quad Captains chairs with the one bench (seating for seven). It leaves a ton of room behind the third row bench seat.
Or, if you don't mind the half-ton, look at the Chevy LT....it has the quad captains chairs as well (they are so much nicer for adults to sit in than on a bench).
As for my Van, it looks great. It is a 100% improvement over what it was.
The brown specs are gone and the finish is now smooth as glass. I have been inspecting my paint from every angle (it is white, so it is hard to see many imperfections anyway), and I have to say, it looks and feels better than any new car finish I have ever had.
I have already started the process of hand waxing and let me say, once I have wax on the paint, it gets even smoother.
My roof (which was repainted) looks great as well. However, I won't be able to wax it for 90 days, so I will be checking it daily for "bird poop"....
Ask your dealer about the Chevy LT.......I don't know if you can get it in the heavy duty version however.
Bet your weekend plans are ruined !!!
They think the problem is the seals in the tranny (will know more on Monday). The problem is one single manufacturer (no competition) supplies all the seals for GMC/Ford/Chrysler and others. They make engine, tranny, axle seals, etc. It's not GMC's fault it seems. No way I am accepting a repair. If a alternator goes, they replace it and not overhaul it. I accepted an engine overhaul once before, and it didn't solve the problem, and it cost me on trade in. This time they better give me a new vehicle or new tranny or money back. It hasn't even been taken home yet!
Sounds like your dealer went out of their way to go the extra mile to make you happy. Sounds like your ready to start enjoying your new van. Sounds like my problems are just beginning.
http://www.gmc.com/savana/slt/comfort.html
Leather is optional.....Trust me, at least look at those quad captains chairs. I can stand up and walk back (between the captains chairs) right down the center all the way to the third row bench seat.
The only down side to bench seats is for adults on long trips. Those captains chairs are great for grownups.
However, as I read it, you would need to settle for the 1/2 ton (1500).
I could use some information as to where I can find these parts beside the parts dept. please e-mail me if you would!
chowini@mail.com Thanks a lot. P.C.
http://www.huskyliner.com/3180%20DOC.pdf
I ordered mine online from "Sporto Motoring" here:
http://www.sportomotoring.com/husky.tmpl
These Husky liners are really nice. They are "molded" to the exact dimensions of your floor area (for the Ford Econoline, that includes the hump on the drivers side). I never could find them local. On-line is the only place I had any luck. They are not cheap, but they are really nice. I ordered mine in grey, to match my interior color carpet. I think they come in black and tan as well.
These are liners, not mats, so they have a lip all the way around that keeps water, etc on the liner itself.
1. Never ever order if you don't have to! Buying
without seeing is asking for trouble, and they
hold all the cards (Mfr). It's a double edge
sword with passenger vans, because they are
almost impossible to find on a lot the way
you want it, so your tempted to order.
2. We have no LEMON LAW in Ontario! We have
a Canadian Motor Vehicle arbitration assoc.
They couldn't help me either, because they
deal with vehicles that are repeatedly breaking
down, or the same defect keeps recurring. Mine
is too new (under 35kms).
3. In there warranty book they have all the
options open to them. They can repair or
replace components with NEW or REMANUFACTURED.
Well, if they try a remanufactured tranny on
me there going to be up for fraud. A new
tranny can cost perhaps $4000, while rebuilts
easily go for $1500. My biggest concern is how
do I know I am getting NEW or REBUILT if they
should decide to replace it. With the plastic
still on the carpets and seats, they better
have the decency to give me a new one. Parts
departments normally only deal in
remanufactured goods, so I have to be careful.
The option of ordering another van is not possible, besides I do not want to wait any longer. Seems we both have had to accept certain defects, and to me repainting the body is not the same as new. In my book it is acceptable to replace defective component parts on a new vehicle and the vehicle can still be considered new. However, once you start painting the body you have lost the original finish, it is no longer as good as new. Seems the customer has to suffer, I hope I get a discount for some body dings (right door and the bottom drivers side of the van looks like it ran over a curb) even after the repaint....I doubt it though. GMC has the option of repairing all defects in sheet metal during shipment in their warranty, that certainly does not imply savings for me. The manufacturers have covered themselves from every angle. Your safest bet is buy off the lot, and even still you might miss a few things (like the rail dust which I have not yet had a chance to check out).
If this was the camera industry, how many people would buy a $2000 camera and then listen to a salesman telling you to "please wait while we first repair it" before you can take it home. Seems to me that if it is defective to begin with, we should be seeing a discount, but we don't!
I was also told the Consumer Protection Act here in Canada does not apply on vehicles, because when you order the vehicle you enter into a written contract. That's funny, I thought the contract would naturally imply a good vehicle for a good buck ($). Repainting in particular will never make it as good as new either, so a warranty sometimes is still not fair, sometimes we should be compensated for defects.
Thanx for the floor liner source Vguard. I found a few rolled up in the back of the van (you were right, GMC does supply a few with the van), likely enough to only do the front row. If there inferior I will be quickly ordering those floor mats you mentioned.
Sorry to hear you still have not been able to resolve your van issues to your satisfaction. I know how you feel. When I first discovered my problems (scratch on roof and rail dust contamination), I got this "sick" feeling in my stomach.
However, after an $825.00 visit with the private body shop my dealer uses (which Ford paid) and seeing the work they did, I feel much better. I hope you will as well, once they have fixed your van.
I agree with your feeling regarding new paint. I am very lucky that my new paint was the van roof, which is difficult to see anyway (and that it is white, the most forgiving color). I must admit, the paint on the roof looks better in many ways than what I have on the sides. I suppose the fact they were painting a horizontal surface makes all the difference in the world.
I can't help but think your dealer will do what it takes to make you happy. While some may advise you to take an aggressive approach, from my experience, the best approach is a reasonable one. No responsible dealer wants a customer to be unhappy (which only leads to bad press). Communication is the key to winning any situation.
Remember this, the dealership parts department will not care if your transmission replacement is new or rebuilt, since GM will be paying the bill. It is the GM rep, not the dealer who is in the position to make that particular decision. My goal would be to get the dealership on my side and help force the GM rep to do the right thing.
I really hope everything works out and your happy with your van when all is said and done.
Best of luck,
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Other bad signs I got a bad dealer, the manager makes me wait 3 mins before he arrives to the phone, then tells me he has a customer waiting....well what am I? This has happened 3 times now, I never seem to be a customer now that it is paid for! Maybe I need to do some media to wake them up (how my van was delivered). Bringing that up.....I arrived for pickup of my vehicle and found it with doors locked, hood open (not raised), and sitting at a 20 degree angle in mud(tires 2"deep in it) off the paved area of the parking area (used dealer section). After paying, my salesman never even followed me out to the vehicle to show me around or anything (gave me the keys and said bye). Well, that was what I came home with....1 key and left it at the lot. I expected something like them driving the van to the front of the store for me....shees! If I complain too much, I may end up getting bad workmanship later on (never know). I will be getting future service done elsewhere. Small dealer, small minds!
I checked out our legislation (real cute in Canada). We have a Canadian Motor Vehicle aribtration association (Camvap). Well, they deal in only vehicles with repeat problems, not new vehicles with 35 kms total. Also we have no grace period after signing....done deal! I hear in the US you get 30 days for a full refund! I get ZIP, Nill, thumb in nose and wiggle your 4 fingers kind of deal!~ GMC also in there warranty specifies all defects including PAINT, SHEET METAL, and other components are covered! Well, that tells me I have a fat chance in negotiations. So I am going to record and photograph everything, any other problems and I will go to CAMVAP, a process taking 70 days on average if I have fruther problems. Bottom line is I am accepting the vehicle (no choice), and have what needs fixing done. Then I want to enjoy it.
The pros....engine is good, steering/suspension good, love the ride, no rattles (rock solid), super quiet. I am not saying GMC makes bad vehicles, I just got a bad one with a few more defects (ding along bottom edge/tranny/headliner torn) then average on delivery. I will fill you in later once I pick it up. I'm telling them tomorrow to go ahead and fix the existing tranny so I can get it home real fast into that nice garage I fixed for it.
Sounds like your enjoying your vehicle. I hope to be at that same situation soon! The baloney we customers have to go through....SHEES!
I can't help but wonder if you would not be better served, having a different GM dealer fix your van.
It is all warranty work, so whoever does the work makes a profit from the service. Why enable the dealer who has treated you so bad, to make a profit from your misfortune?
I have never read anywhere that the "selling dealer" is required to perform warranty work. This could be a great opportunity to establish a better relationship with a dealer that actually cares about your experience. From what you have said, your existing dealer could care less !
Food for thought!
Based on my experience, the dealer (and sometimes the service writer) can make all the difference in the world. If you ever visit the "Chevy Express-GMC Savana reliability" message board, you can read about my experiences with a 1997 MC Savana 1500 van conversion (5.7L) and its transmission.
I went through a few transmissions during my 95,000 mile ownership experience. Each time I visited the dealer, I was treated exceptionally well, provided a loaner car for free (the first time the transmission went bad, I had a loaner van for almost two weeks - waiting for the GMC Rep. to approve the transmission swap).
This is the first time I have actually trusted a dealership service writer. This guy never fed me any bull, he knew and told me up front that I wouldn't get my van back for at least 10 days (the first transmission swap), and he called me with periodic updates. Being an amateur mechanic (4 years of auto shop in high school) I know most of the basics. I can usually tell when a service writer or mechanic is trying to feed me B.S., and I am very dissapointed when they do.
I sold the van and ordered a 2001 Savana 3500, 155" wb, 8.1L V8. I think the heavy duty transmission in this one will hold up better (I hope) so I can keep this one a lot longer.
Before I sat down with the finance department, the salesman came with me for an test drive (15 - 20 miles) & let me check out everything. The only thing I found was that the tow package didn't include the plug for the trailer lights (read the fine print, it only comes "pre-wired"). The dealer had one installed at no cost; the salesman actually agreed with me that it seemed misleading, if not plain silly, to not finish the job when you install a "factory tow package". If you buy a Tahoe, you get the plug from the factory, why not on the Savana?
I also recommend that you visit other dealers (if possible) and see if you can find someone who values your business. Maybe they'll sell you your next car someday...
Best regards,
rsmmac
As for the 3500 van, it is a heavy duty tranny (like what I got)...provided the seals are good in it (mine failed). Unfortunately they come from Freudenberg who has no competition, terrible work conditions, and my friend who works as quality inspector there said they let a lot of garbage pass! They are the exclusive manufacturer for Chrysler/GMC/Ford and others I'm told. Since there are approximatly 28 seals in a tranny, I bet this is a major reason why so many people have tranny problems. My tranny was spinning it's clutches and within 2 blocks the problem would go away as the seals swell up (always 1st gear while cold). Otherwise, this is the same tranny that is used in the 177 inch wheelbase commercial cutaway van trucks with GVWR of 12,000 lbs (Chevy commercial brochure). So that tranny should be more then enough for a passenger van carrying much less payload. I think we should have good luck with it, and I have been told by a tranny shop that it is the 1500 series GMC that is known for tranny problems. The heavy duty GMC tranny is supposed to be the best tranny made in North America. LOL....mine failed on the lot.
So far my dealer has accepted fixing everything, and I hope things work out well. I have the 3 year warranty on the tranny, and after that I really do not care anymore. I will go to the wreckers and find a tranny for $200-300 (or if I wish a rebuilt for $1500)and put it in myself...it's not a big job (1/2 dozen bolts at the engine, drop the cross member and drive shaft, remove the speedometer cable and one or two more things....that's it). No more arguing or thinking about it, I would rather just get it done. I also know nothing else will be damaged by someone else, or someone dent my vehicle like happened to my friend today. Seems the mechanic charged him for a brake job, while my friend is charging him for a body and paint job on the door after slamming the door into the car hoist pillar as the mechanic exited the vehicle...LOL. Nice big vertical dent! Ouch!
I don't know anything about Van. I found a Dodge Ram 1995 B3500 full-sized van, with 96K miles. It seats 12 passengers, 5.9 V8. Any one has anything to say about this model?
Thanks.
Kong
I know the Dodge 5.9L (360 cubic inch) has been around a long time, and is supposed to be a real gas hog in the new Durangos. Still, you might need that much engine with a 12-seater.
I recently had a 1990 Dodge 2500 conversion van with the 5.2L (318 c.i.) engine, which has been in production over 40 years. Great running rig. Bought it with 131k miles, sold it with 152k, and it seemed to have plenty of life left in it. The auto trans was acting funky, but it was a good-running, reliable truck.
ejp
Seems whenever I stop for any length of time (even a red light) that the loud noise begins and it takes much longer to shift into second (also makes a differential like whining sound. After 1/4 mile it's back to normal until the next red light. Sounds like it takes a short distance of driving to build up vacuum, and then when I stop for even a minute I have lost some of the vacuum. Since the tranny functions by hyraulics it sounds like a feasible problem. Their the experts, they can figure it out, I just know it' still not right, but now I have drove it and likely the clutch plates will have had damage from excessive spinning (or will very soon).
The supervisor was young, said he knows less then the tranny guy regarding trannys, yet he made the final decision...he was even half hour late for my appointment. Shows what I am dealing with! So it is going back. This time the idiot made the problem worse with the miles added on now.
Other then the tranny problem, the emissions/tranny/suspension/steering/ fuel and other systems seem to all be perfect. Rides great, very quite,lots pickup, and can't believe a vehicle so big has no rattles. I am starting to enjoy it finally (less one problem left)!
I was surprised with the gas mileage, although too new to calculate, it sure went a long way on a 1/4 tank of gas....I was impressed, and after 5000 miles will expect it to be a bit better yet.
By the way, didn't need any body work...that had me worried. Just leaving the bottom edge the way it is, it's not noticeable and I noticed others have the same imperfection. I can live with it.
I just got back from purchasing several cases of Mobile 1 synthetic oil. I plan on making the switch in the next couple days....any opinion on synthetics for full size vans "xfiles" ? (we need to keep the conversation relevant to full size vans or we will get booted off.....).
Regarding Mobil 1, I would wait till you're at least a couple of thousand miles after break-in before switching. I personally switched my vehicle to Mobil 1 5W30 at 3500+ kilometres on the odometer (break-in was at 1500 kms); it required 8 litres, or 8.5 quarts of the stuff. That was its 1st (unscheduled) oil change. Its 2nd oil change, this time scheduled, was done at about 16500 kms, and with Mobil 1 15W50, as approved and recommended by the manufacturer.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I have read the threads on synthetics and have also read Mobile's position on using synthetics at any time, but I am thinking now I will make the switch at somewhere between 1800-2200 miles (sort of a compromise between "day one" and "first scheduled oil change").
The bigger question for me is when to make the switch to the Mobile synthetic transmission fluid (a 14qt. job on my van = $70.00 for fluids).
The arguments for synthetic engine oil, when applied to transmission fluid, really show promise.
Trick is to find this stuff on sale.....I spent all day yesterday searching for retailers who would match Kmarts $4.00qt Mobile1 sale price (normal price $4.47). Of course, Kmart had none in inventory, but I was able to get AutoZone to match, so I picked up a few cases. It seems the Mobile1 filters never go on sale ($9.99ea).
oh ya.....FULL SIZE VAN (gotta make sure I include that in my thread).....
I have also read many times and even my dealer said to expect some improvement in gas mileage at the 5000 mile mark. I tend to believe this, and it implies further break in continues on for a while longer. One other thing, there is talk of break in oil, and from what I understand the difference is something to do with foaming agents....can't remember if break in oil has it or isn't suppose to have it. In my opinion it would not hurt to reach the 5000 mile mark.
Remember, machined parts need to "set". Even with my air compressor they said DO NOT change the oil too soon, because too clean an oil does nothing to polish the metal....you need some abrasive quality to the oil in the beginning (that black sooty look is necessary). Even the air compressor maintenance fellow told me if you change the oil too soon that the compressor will not break in properly. He said it's always safer to wait a lot longer then not enough. Were not talking about waiting till 25,000 miles, I just wouldn't worry about it till the van is really broken in well. It wouldn't hurt to go through two complete oil changes....say around 7000 miles.
By the way, I got GOOD NEWS...nothing wrong with my tranny. Seems GMC vans have the "loudest" clutch cooling fan for the radiator on this planet. I took out another van and it did the same thing, it sounds like an approaching bus with it on, and it whines too. This is one part I will replace quite soon with "aftermarket" parts. It even fooled the tranny man, luckily the supevisor noticed it. If it were not for test driving another vehicle I would not have believed him. Believe me this fan is downright embarrassing for noise. I am finally like yourself a happy camper! The van had NO MECHNICAL defects at all! Real surprise to me!
So although synthetics lubricate better, it's real advantage lies with non combustion type motors (electric motors). I would not stretch things too far between oil changes because the engine parts do not like fuel in oil which breaks down anything....it is really a cleaner. So freqeuncy is the key. Most oil starts failing at about 1500 miles, and 95% of the population does not change it this soon (nor do I). I change every 3000 miles and I got 400,000 miles (not kms) on my Tercel.....so I myelf am not even worried about synthetics. Synthetics though are standard on high performance racing engines to withstand higher temperatures.
I keep pretty meticulous mpg (kpl?) records and my mileage didn't plateau until around 15,000 miles on my Quest minivan. Anecdotal, but there it is....
Lots more oil stuff in the Synthetic motor oil message board (maybe too much!).
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Hey, what model year of Tercel did you have? How many miles you accumulate?
This attachment is generally used for cleaning walls by professional cleaners. It sure beats using a rag at the end of a pole and risking scratching your vehicle. The snaps hold it tightly in place and stay hidden to prevent any damage to the vehicle. It should make waxing the center of the roof very easy with a 5 foot stepladder. The shaggy booty is very durable, and you can wash ond re-use over and over.
I was lucky Vguard, I didn't find any evidence of a rail dust problem. Any rail dust that was there is now washed away with soap and rag.
My van won't seat more than 7, so I guess I am just running the normal "full size van" risk of rollover.
Of course, I drive like an old lady from Florida (or so my wife says anyway), so my risk of rollover is less than anyone, in any car!!
I'm not going to touch your post either, not even with a 10' pole with a shaggy cotton booty on it....
vguard, excellent question. The E350 is one of the ambulance conversion models, and this page doesn't mention anything about, say, suspension mods. They do require a block heater, which comes in handy if you're running around Tampa/St. Pete I guess .
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I think things need to be placed in perspective. A transport truck driver would consider a fully loaded 15 passenger van a lot safer then what he is driving. A transport truck takes a lot longer to stop, has incredible loads (loads that can even shift), takes risks shipping hazourdous or flammable liquids, and are dangerous to small car motorists, etc. We accept those vehicles on the roads, and the drivers are willing to drive them. It boils down to one thing>>>SLOW DOWN when you have a heavy load. Like anything else, act foolish and you will get hurt. Would you feel safer on a motorcycle? There is always risk!
As for myself, my extended van will only have 2 people on board, and rarely 3-4. I am not worried.I wouldn't enjoy driving it fully loaded with 12 passengers any more then I would enjoy a fully loaded car bouncing on the road with a suspension a bit weak for what it was really intended for. Most cars do not drive that well when FULL! Then again a motorcycle is not that safe either when there are 2 on board. The ability to avoid an accident is drastically reduced when you have a rear passenger (handling is terrible). Yet we see trucks/vans/cars/motorcycyles/bicycles on the road and we take our chances. When you consider that people take chances riding bicycles on the road, motorcycles, or bungee jump.....does it not make you wonder if safety is always what is most important.
Imagine his handling characteristics once he fills up his small SUV with his family/luggage/dogs, etc.
Notice I said I passed him.....trust me, I wasted no time getting away from that idiot.
This is where the full size SUV, pickups, and full size vans became popular to tow our largest toys. Mini vans can do some work with smaller trailers, and most cars cannot tow much more then a few cases (24's) of beer without the rear end dragging....LOL.
Bottom line, I think
Wish I noticed it sooner.
I read over your comments again and noticed that your rebuilt calipers FAILED! Well, that is a give away for contaminated front pads. The calipers leaked I bet and all over the pad on the one side of the vehicle. They replaced the caliper and not the pads...... that is the likely source of contamination.
Try Midas Muffler guys....they will always check your brakes for FREE. Ask for their advice!