I seem to remember some time back this discussion surfaced. At that time the outside mirror was deemed the culprit due to the shape and size. I would agree with Mike and try folding the mirror in.
I have had an odd noise occasionally, too. It is not coming from the mirror but from right above me on the driver's side. It's not a whistling either, it almost sounds like someone has thrown a handful of fine sand at the roof. It happens briefly only once in a while, and seems to be when there is a certain amount of wind and the car is travelling at a particular angle to that wind. I've removed the factory crossbars, but have Yakima roof racks. I haven't tried taking them off to see if it makes a difference, since I can't be without them anyway.
Does anyone know if there will be a refreshening of the 2003 legacy L wagon. While shopping for a 2003 forester, I happened to test drive a legacy L wagon and was impressed. It seems whenever I read reviews of the Legacy and forester that the legacy gets lukewarm reviews compared to good reviews on the forester. Is the legacy the "rodney dangerfield" car in the subaru lineup? Also, what sort of mileage are people getting with the legacy? Thanks, Bruce
Another suggestion for wind noise: try running the windows up with the doors open, then closing the doors. Perhaps a window not snugging up to a door seal is your culprit. Radio antenna or wipers might be suspects as well.
Hi, I am hoping to take my first long road trip in my 2001 Outback for Thanksgiving this year. I think I might need to get a cargo carrier for the trip. Does anyone have any suggestions about which one to purchase? I do not want to exceed the weight limit. Thanks, Julie
Thanks all for the responses. This is where I stand along with my conclusions. I'll be dropping by the service department of my dealership on Monday regardless as I've already alerted them to my concern. I've tried driving without the crossover bars, the dealer installed hood deflector (a must have in my mind) and with the mirrors folded all at separate times. The noise I'm concerned about never went away. My conclusion is that the tires, Bridgestone Potenzas, are making the noise. The noise is speed induced as to loudness and pitch so my fingers are crossed that I can rule out the drivetrain as suspect. Would anyone with an '02 or similar tires please chime in if this is occurring with you. Also, I'm open to all suggestions for good replacement tires (assuming this is the cause of the noise), especially quiet ones. Its important enough for me to swap out the tires if I can prove they're the cause of my noise.
you may be right, when I put michelin artic alpins on OB wheels for my 98 GT legacy (which come with RE92s) it made a noise which I thought was a vacuum leak, brought it back several times to the dealer, they could never figure it out and after 2 seasons I worked out it was only there with my winter tires/wheels.
I, too, have a 2002 Outback (1700 miles) with the Whistle / Whiney noise at 60-70 mph. The noise is noticed when the accelerator pedal is pressed and stops when it is released.
Messages #313 and #327 on the Legacy/Outback Problems and Solution thread as well #5501 and #5514 of this thread seem to be talking about the same symptom.
My dealer says its normal but I didn't hear it in a "loaner" that I drove.
Has anyone with the "sound" been able to get rid of it? TO me , it sounds like friction that shouldn't be there that could eventually lead to a problem.
I have never noticed a noise at 60 to 70 mph .I usually have my radio up so loud I can't hear anything .Next time I'm on the highway I try to listen and see if I hear anthing. 02 base wagon dark blue 9100 miles .
If your $25,000 car had a constant strong left pull, and the alignment settings were all "in spec", but at or near rhe low end, would you be satisfied?
Do I know better than the engineers? Nope. But I was one, and know of their constraints. When setting a spec, customer satisfaction and costs are often weighed against each other.
For example, a spec tolerance of +/- 10 units might result in a customer complaint rate of 5%, while a tolerance of +/- 5 units would have a comlaint rate of less than 1%, but cost the manufacturer $100,000 a year. Some decisions will go one way, some the other.
I drove a WRX again today, this one just got on the lot with 9 miles on it. This was the 4th WRX I drove. They let us take it out as a family with no salesman. I drove it for an hour. I concluded it is too loud, too much interior noise, too small for our family in the back seats as well as the cargo room. Plus, it was not too fun. I liked the short shifter this time, but the turbo never seemed to kick in. They had a Legacy GT on the lot in a sedan. I drove that one for the same twisty mountain road hour-long drive. WOW!!! I loved it. It sure does handle much better then the Outback's do! Just as well, if not better, then the OBS/WRX. It clung to the road and had a real good road feel that I felt really confident with going 60 MPH around corners with. No body roll whatsoever. Anyway, I am 100% sure this time. I am getting a GT wagon in Titanium Pearl, manual transmission with the Premium sound and a 6-disk cd-changer delivered on Wednesday (it’s my birthday that day too!) The perfect car for family and my sports car itch! Very happy with my decision! Heather
Good choice Heather! All we have to do now is keep bugging SOA for more power! Can't wait for that GTB wagon to replace my 98 in a few years! You're right about the WRX, its a little too small and ride is harsher. I almost couldn't get one as my better half said it had to fit our daughters cello and it was tight but it just made it! If you thought the stock 16 in wheels on the WRX were a little bumpy, don't ride in one with 17 in wheels! I think I could jar my tooth fillings loose over rail tracks now! WRX is definitely more sporty feel than a GT. When the engine loosens up and you get over 4K, boy does it go though! My GT is my daily commute car. My WRX my mid life crisis fun car! Congragulations, you will love your GT!
You are correct about the tolerances, and most dealers would do it out of courtesy, but technically it is in spec and if pushed hard enough they will not fix it.
The guy who is responsible for installing the oil drain plug in the oil pan on the H6 assembly line! The #(^$&@ thing must have been torqued down to about 120 ft-lbs!! I just got around to my first oil change on my 2002 Bean and that was the hardest part of it. Usually it's the oil filters that the factory installs that give the most grief, but not this time.
I put the Bean up on my 4-post lift and raised it up. Removing the access panel was easy enough, and changing the filter was a breeze. The drain plug is easily accessible but man, it was just about welded in there. The car is 7 months old and has 3700 miles on it. I took the time to wipe down any oil drips underneath and witnessed first-hand the sticky undercoating that is responsible for the "burning" smells we all got just after delivery. There was still some left on the transmission pan.
Anyway, just venting, since I'm sure I'd be fightin' a robot anyway.....
Get a good torque wrench with a long handle. Works like a charm on just about any bolts. I had to remove the 17mm bolts that held the tow hooks, they were also tight. Plus I could torque them to specs when reinstalling.
Bruce: I see the Legacy L as the bargain in the Subaru line up. You get the same engine from many pricier GT Ltd and OB Ltd models, all the space, the rigid chassis, the safety cage that aced IIHS tests, 4 disc brakes, AWD, and ABS. All the ice cream is there, and even some hot fudge, but not the sprinkles.
I paid $17.8k. That's actually less than a Camry, Altima, or Accord, similarly equipped and those are sedans with about 1/4 the cargo space and no AWD!
From a pure value stand point, in my humble opinion, the Legacy L makes the strongest argument in the entire Subaru lineup. Nothing can touch that price, not even close, with the same equipment. Nothing, there simply is no compeition. Well, maybe the Outback Sport. ;-)
Why aren't reviews glowing? Well, I love the Forester, but I'll admit it has easier competition. The Passat wagon is much nicer than a RAV4 or CR-V.
My Forester is lighter, more nimble and fun, spunky, trendy even. Our Legacy L is refined, quiet, and smooth. For personal use I'd still pick my Forester, but my wife prefers her Legacy by far.
Other comparisons? I'd pick the Forester for the city streets, the Legacy for the highway. The Forester if you have an empty nest, the Legacy if yours is full.
I've been lurking for a bit, but figured it was time to actually speak up now that I've "joined the Subaru club". I know it sounds rather trite on this board, but my path towards Subaru ownership was very similar to several others': I spent 7+ months researching *every* available vehicle that fit my requirements, including trying everything from the Hyundai through the Mercedes M-class (I decided that for my new vehicle I would throw all my bias out the window and start with a completely "clean slate"). The "finalists" were the Subaru Outback, the VW Passat 4motion wagon, and the Volvo XC (the Audi Allroad would've been on the list also, but since the price was so much higher than all the others I couldn't justify it). Needless to say the Outback ended up winning, although the decision was difficult.
I've always been a huge fan of German cars, especially VWs. In fact, I currently own two VW Golf GTIs (a 2000 GLX that is my "toy" and a 1991 8V that is being replaced by the Outback as my "daily vehicle"). Most of my friends were astounded that I picked a Subaru over a VW. To be honest, the Passat was a very nice vehicle, but I felt that the Outback was a better overall value (and I knew I still had my GTI GLX to "play" ).
As for the which model of the Outback to get, that was actually the hardest choice. I definitely wanted the H6 (wow, was a sweet power plant), so that meant either the LL Bean or the VDC. At first I was leaning towards the Bean, mainly due to the lower price. After several test drives between the Bean and the VDC (especially in the snow, which we get a bunch of here in Western NY) I fell in love with the VDC. Being one who enjoys the art of driving, the VDC also had a better "feel" (likely due to the 45/55 rearward-bias torque split). Knowing that the VDC had a "beefier" powertrain (e.g. the "torsen" differential) helped, and of course the McIntosh audio system just blew me away. The only real downside- as several others have mentioned- is the lack of a manual transmission (I haven't owned an automatic since the mid-80s). However, I'm finding that I don't miss it as much as I thought I might.
So, I ordered a 2002 Outback VDC wagon (Timberline Green- that truly is a sweet color) with all the options I wanted, and the rest is history...
I would also like to mention the dealership I worked with- Van Bortel Subaru (in Victor, NY). During my 7+ month research quest, I interacted with pretty much every different type of dealership imaginable: everything from the "pushy-don't-bother-me" types all the way through "I want to make this the best vehicle-buying experience you've ever had" type. Van Bortel was *definitely* the latter- in fact they were absolutely the best dealer I've ever visited! My first interaction with them went something like this:
[I'm climbing all over one of the Subarus on the lot]
"Hi, can I help you?"
"I'm just looking at the different models here."
"That's cool. I'll be inside- let me know if you have any questions. Here's a license plate you can use for a test drive. All the vehicles have keys in them already, so just slap this on the back of whatever you want to try, and bring the plate back inside when you're done..."
Wow! They've really got a great overall philosophy. In a recent thread here, some folks were talking about having routine oil changes done at a dealership- Van Bortel offers $10 oil changes for the life of your vehicle! Although I traditionally have done maintenance myself, it's hard to justify my time with such an offer (especially since time seems to be more and more a precious commodity!). They told me that they want to do business with customers again in the future, and so they expect to get the vehicles back as trade-ins. If the cars are well-maintained, they hold a higher re-sale value, so everyone wins long-term if they provide incentives to have you maintain your vehicle. Combine their incredible attitude with the best price around and you've got a situation where it's next to impossible to say "no". In short, I *highly* recommend them...
As a long-time VW owner, I've enjoyed the VW "community"; most VW owners are passionate about their vehicles, and you don't often hear folks say "I stumbled onto a VW lot and bought this car on a whim". Imagine my surprise when I found that Subaru owners have quite the community of their own, with a similar passion! Not only did I get a really cool machine, but I now have the opportunity to network with a new-found group of fellow enthusiasts!
Anyway, I just wanted to say "Hi" and thank everyone for participating in this forum. It's good to meet you all!
Took my 2002 OBW with 4400 miles into Jim Burke in Birmingham AL with the complaint of whistle noise at speed between 60-80mph when pedal depressed. They diagnosed problem as a Pinion bearing / ring gear problem. It has taken over 3 weeks for all the parts to arrive. I dropped it off today 5/20 for repair and will post outcome hopefully on Friday 5/24. The problem was there from DAY 1, I just didn't notice it until a couple of days after picking up the car. I'm wondering if SOA should be notified as this seems to be a problem with more than 1 or 2 cars. My advisor said that they have fixed another one with the same problem, Hmmmm?
and congrats on your new Outback VDC wagon! Thanks for sharing all the details.... Look forward to seeing you around Town Hall and hearing more about your ownership experience. Happy motoring!
As a former VW owner I can see how the decision process takes you to an Outback. I aslo had a lovely 91 GTi 8v which gave me immense pleasure. the blast you get from chucking a GTi over fast winding roads is somedthing you just can't replicate. However, the Outback is even more stable and dramatically more fun when things get slippery. Alos the brakes are better!
I had a VW Passat immediately before the Outback. Similar idea but different outcome. If I was back to continuous high speed freeway travel I would have the Passat. For the travellling I now do which can include sheep paddocks and other strange bits, the Outback is much better.
Look forward to hearing your views over time, particularly driven back to back with the Golfs
As another satisfied Van Bortel customer, I second your comments about that dealership. Not only have I had a great buying experience there, but by service experience over the past 2 1/2 years has been superb (I have a 2K OBW with 42K, purchased 11/2/99).
Before I bought my VDC, my finalists were the same as yours: Passat vs VDC. The engine gets smoother and more responsive as it ages. I love it for highway travel: very quiet, compliant ride, and the great stereo.
On the strong advice of my Subie dealer, I did switch to synthetic for the tranny and engine. you might talk to your dealer.
BTW, it looked lonely in the garage, so I added a WRX wagon to go with it. Now I have the best of both worlds.
Welcome! I too spent time with the Volvo & Passat before deciding on the OBW. Unfortunately, being realistic about my budget dictated either a Legacy L or base OB. Bought an '02 in Timberline back in September, and it served me well in our rather brief winter down here in the Hudson River Valley.
It's true, VW and Subaru owner communities have a lot in common. Both are passionate, almost cult-like in their loyalty. VW even had boxer engines for a long, long time, and cousin Audi has been into AWD for as long as I can remember.
Congrats and welcome, Geordie.
The VDC is really nice. VW will add stability control to the 4Motion next year, I hear, but it would have cost far more. You get strong value at Subaru.
I originally just got the stock cassette deck in my GT, 'cause I knew I would want a CD player (after you listen to CDs in the car you almost never go back to cassettes.) The stock head unit sounds good, when I put an eclipse CD head unit in, all of a sudden there was static on the radio. My friend said they get that complaint a lot, when switching from factory to after market units. Seems the manufactures lop the top end off the spectrum so that it is more pleasing to more people. It makes sense. My CD player stopped playing one day (they are not designed for highly repititios ejecting in the hands of two year olds), so I switched back to the factory unit - and it definitely did not sound as good. When I got my eclipse back (covered by warantee - weeee) I put it back in and wow, the high end of music came back. If you listen to radio the factory deck and the tweeter kit sound great. If you listen to a lot of CDs (loud) an after market deck sounds better than great. I chose eclipse because they use a security code over a removable face. It also does not transform the dash into the lights of vegas. Now I'll buy them again because of the warrantee. -steve-v
I am at 8500 miles on my base 02 OB. I cannot even stretch to find a complaint. It actually is a good vehicle for CA in general. North CA has Tahoe & rain, South CA has the Grapevine & Big Bear. I am not surprised that I am seeing more OB's on the road every day here.
One note - does everyone get pretty good service from their Subaru dealer? Renick Subaru/Cadillac in Fullerton provides me with such good service that I am starting to feel guilty! I think they are just a solid dealership and the Subaru owners benefit from the Cadillac level of customer service.
Sorry for cross-posting this, but I'm hoping that someone has resolved this issue:
I have a 2000 Outback wagon with less than 30k miles. It's my fourth scoober. I saw in some earlier messages that others were having the mystery burning rubber smell eminating from under the hood and somewhat through the vents. I don't live where the roads get salted, I haven't run over anything, and the car started this smell about two months ago. There are no puddles of oil or anything else under the car.
I've had the techs tell me it was CV boot leaks, but now that they've replaced both of them, the smell remains. I'm about ready to take my car in for the third time on this problem. There are no TSBs or recalls regarding the smell.
I have a 2001 OB and it had a whistling noise on the driver's side. Turns out the seal around the side view mirror wasn't installed correctly. A simple fix under warranty and I'm happy as a clam.
I don't know if anyone has posted anything like this, but I've recently noticed on my '02 base OB 5 speed, that the clutch shudders (and the Subie along with it) on gentle startups when it's wet outside. Of course I thought it was my driving technique, but I've been driving sticks for years, and I honestly don't think so. If I really feather the clutch, or do an abrupt engagement, it doesn't do it, but when I'm not thinking about it, it surprises me with the shuddering.
The clutch shudder seems to be a fairly common thing among 5 speeds for some reason. I had the same issue in my 2000 OB, and I was able to have the clutch replaced at 34,600 miles because I had service records from before 15K showing the problem.
Be sure to let your dealer know so there is evidence of it before 15K so that when it gets worse, they can replace it under warranty (before 36K). I have 42Kmiles now, and do not have the shudder [yet?].
I'm going to be replacing my wifes' Altima within the next 6-9 months and was looking for some input. One of the vehicles I'm considering is the Outback, LLBean with the 6 cylinder.
The local dealer, which is absolutely awful, seems less than interested in a sale and I've heard from several people that their service department leaves something to be desired. Does anybody know of a good dealership in the Madison, Wisconsin area (+/- 120 miles)?
I've also heard that repairs on a Subaru are very expensive, in particular the exhaust system. I'm not worried about the reliability, just what I can expect to pay for general maintenance items. I don't have the time or the tools to do repairs myself and don't want to have to take out a second mortgage to pay for a typical repair item. Have the costs that people have been experiencing within reason? Are they anymore than a Nissan or a Honda?
Thanks in advance.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Yesterday on the way home from work I noticed the hood deflector vibrating a bit. It ussually hardly moves at all. After I got home I notced 2 rubber little feet missing. I have replaced these things every 4 months or so. This time however the deflector rubbed on the hood leaving a nice mark. Hopefully I can get it buffed out. It didn't appear to go through the paint but just scuffed it up a bit.
Anyone else have problems keeping those rubber feet on the deflector? Solutions?
Had mine since car was new . 9000k miles later now problems . I take mine off every 2 washs . When you replace the rubber thingys make sure you really clean that spot . I rubbed a little alcohol on the spot to get the wax off too .
Try Aaron Hammel at Sommer's Subaru in Mequon, WI - just north of Milwaukee. I had a good experience with him on my '02 Outback. I calculated an offer based on Edmund's info, and he took it. Their number is 262.242.0100.
Good luck. I would definetely recommend an Outback. Especially up here in the frozen tundra.
Sounds like too much work. I live in Norhtern WI, so the winter is where I have the problems. The subie gets washed about 3 times a month to keep of the salt and its a bit cold to be trying to stick on rubber feet once or twice a month. Otherwise your suggestion is good and I had tried to do similar during the summer. My OB is 14 months old and 19K miles.
I don't know that Subarus are any more expensive than any other Japanese vehicle to repair. If that's a concern, I would suggest getting an extended warranty that would cover the vehicle for the length of time/mileage you plan on owning it.
Subaru offers several extended warranties (Classic or Gold), and you can choose your deductible, or have no deductible. It's your choice.
On my 4th subaru now (still have 98 GT Legacy and just got a WRX and had two 92 Legacys for about 100k each), repair costs are no more or less than on Hondas etc (had an Integra and Civic before and I'm from a Honda family). They are a million times more reliable than Audis ( but the Subaru dealerships have cheaper coffee).In latest Consumers Reports, Subaru tied Toyota for top place for least problems on newer cars, beating Honda. Never had an exhaust problem on any car. Only repairs have been engine leaks from camshaft seals (should not be a problem on new cars since they changed the material the gaskets were made from several years ago), engine sensors and AC. Also had problems with the air suspension on one of the 92s but no recent Legacys/Outbacks have that system anymore. Never had AWD /tranny problems/suspension problems etc. You won't regret getting an OB. If you don't need the H6 engine,get the GT, it handles far better than an Outback.
This has been a frequent topic, so forgive me if my response seems a bit summary. In my experience (2000 OB 5 spd.) the likelihood of clutch shudder/chatter is greatest when it is wet (though I'm not convinced "why"). Some folks report clutch chatter in all conditions, but its my sense that they like to take off under fairly low rpms (under 1200). Given the weight of an Outback and (possibly? probably?) the design of the hydraulic clutch, chatter seems inevidable if you don't take off with moderate to high revs (I use 1600-2000, depending upon grade and engine temp). Even still, on really wet days, a bit of feathering and the like may be needed. With my Forester I can take off with as little as 1000 rpms when the engine is warmed up, and have no shudder at all; but then my Forester weighs a good deal less. In short, I'm not convinced that the shudder is a defect; perhaps its just a condition of the design, easily overcome by using a bit more throttle on take off. But I remain open-minded. YetAnotherDave
We have had 2 Subarus in the last 10 years, a '92 Legacy (208,000 miles) and a '99 Forester (98,000 miles) and have found them to be very reliable. I have also had Toyotas, the "gold standard" for many people. We rebuilt the automatic trans on the Legacy at 176K, probably due to neglect in changing the trans fluid. Its electronic clutch pack at the center differential got tight after around 190K; an expensive repair we're putting off. There have been the usual brake jobs every 50K or so + replacement of timing belts 80-100K, radiators at around 150K with the Legacy. This is all normal high mileage car stuff. There have been a few minor, annoying electrical fixes with each car (Toyota beats this). BUT.. Neither Subaru has needed anything done to the exhaust! The older Toyotas tended to need exhaust work every 50k or so after a while. To me, Subaru is almost as good as Toyota as far as general toughness and reliablity go - and a better value because their overall design, character and AWD capabilities in every model. This puts Subaru at the top of the heap.
Comments
-mike
So, anyone else had THIS sound?
Kim
-mike
Bob
Cheers!
Paul
I am hoping to take my first long road trip in my 2001 Outback for Thanksgiving this year. I think I might need to get a cargo carrier for the trip. Does anyone have any suggestions about which one to purchase? I do not want to exceed the weight limit.
Thanks,
Julie
-mike
My rack actually is quieter with the box!
They have lots of room, lock, are waterproof, aerodynamic, open from either side, and look very good.
Messages #313 and #327 on the Legacy/Outback Problems and Solution thread as well #5501 and #5514 of this thread seem to be talking about the same symptom.
My dealer says its normal but I didn't hear it in a "loaner" that I drove.
Has anyone with the "sound" been able to get rid of it? TO me , it sounds like friction that shouldn't be there that could eventually lead to a problem.
I'd appreciate your comments and help.
Mike k
Do I know better than the engineers? Nope. But I was one, and know of their constraints. When setting a spec, customer satisfaction and costs are often weighed against each other.
For example, a spec tolerance of +/- 10 units might result in a customer complaint rate of 5%, while a tolerance of +/- 5 units would have a comlaint rate of less than 1%, but cost the manufacturer $100,000 a year. Some decisions will go one way, some the other.
Heather
You're right about the WRX, its a little too small and ride is harsher. I almost couldn't get one as my better half said it had to fit our daughters cello and it was tight but it just made it! If you thought the stock 16 in wheels on the WRX were a little bumpy, don't ride in one with 17 in wheels! I think I could jar my tooth fillings loose over rail tracks now! WRX is definitely more sporty feel than a GT. When the engine loosens up and you get over 4K, boy does it go though! My GT is my daily commute car. My WRX my mid life crisis fun car! Congragulations, you will love your GT!
-mike
I put the Bean up on my 4-post lift and raised it up. Removing the access panel was easy enough, and changing the filter was a breeze. The drain plug is easily accessible but man, it was just about welded in there. The car is 7 months old and has 3700 miles on it. I took the time to wipe down any oil drips underneath and witnessed first-hand the sticky undercoating that is responsible for the "burning" smells we all got just after delivery. There was still some left on the transmission pan.
Anyway, just venting, since I'm sure I'd be fightin' a robot anyway.....
Bruce: I see the Legacy L as the bargain in the Subaru line up. You get the same engine from many pricier GT Ltd and OB Ltd models, all the space, the rigid chassis, the safety cage that aced IIHS tests, 4 disc brakes, AWD, and ABS. All the ice cream is there, and even some hot fudge, but not the sprinkles.
I paid $17.8k. That's actually less than a Camry, Altima, or Accord, similarly equipped and those are sedans with about 1/4 the cargo space and no AWD!
From a pure value stand point, in my humble opinion, the Legacy L makes the strongest argument in the entire Subaru lineup. Nothing can touch that price, not even close, with the same equipment. Nothing, there simply is no compeition. Well, maybe the Outback Sport. ;-)
Why aren't reviews glowing? Well, I love the Forester, but I'll admit it has easier competition. The Passat wagon is much nicer than a RAV4 or CR-V.
My Forester is lighter, more nimble and fun, spunky, trendy even. Our Legacy L is refined, quiet, and smooth. For personal use I'd still pick my Forester, but my wife prefers her Legacy by far.
Other comparisons? I'd pick the Forester for the city streets, the Legacy for the highway. The Forester if you have an empty nest, the Legacy if yours is full.
Good luck.
-juice
Mike,
Sad but true.
-mike
I've been lurking for a bit, but figured it was time to actually speak up now
that I've "joined the Subaru club". I know it sounds rather trite on this
board, but my path towards Subaru ownership was very similar to several
others': I spent 7+ months researching *every* available vehicle that fit
my requirements, including trying everything from the Hyundai through the
Mercedes M-class (I decided that for my new vehicle I would throw all my
bias out the window and start with a completely "clean slate"). The "finalists"
were the Subaru Outback, the VW Passat
4motion wagon, and the Volvo XC (the Audi Allroad would've been on the list
also, but since the price was so much higher than all the others I couldn't
justify it). Needless to say the Outback ended up winning, although the
decision was difficult.
I've always been a huge fan of German cars, especially VWs. In fact, I currently own
two VW Golf GTIs (a 2000 GLX that is my "toy" and a 1991 8V that is being
replaced by the Outback as my "daily vehicle"). Most of my friends were
astounded that I picked a Subaru over a VW. To be honest, the Passat was
a very nice vehicle, but I felt that the Outback was a better overall value (and
I knew I still had my GTI GLX to "play"
As for the which model of the Outback to get, that was actually the hardest
choice. I definitely wanted the H6 (wow, was a sweet power plant), so
that meant either the LL Bean or the VDC. At first I was leaning towards the
Bean, mainly due to the lower price. After several test drives between the Bean
and the VDC (especially in the snow, which we get a bunch of here in Western NY)
I fell in love with the VDC. Being one who enjoys the art of driving, the VDC also
had a better "feel" (likely due to the 45/55 rearward-bias torque split). Knowing that
the VDC had a "beefier" powertrain (e.g. the "torsen" differential) helped, and
of course the McIntosh audio system just blew me away. The only real downside-
as several others have mentioned- is the lack of a manual transmission (I haven't owned
an automatic since the mid-80s). However, I'm finding that I don't miss it as much as
I thought I might.
So, I ordered a 2002 Outback VDC wagon (Timberline Green- that truly is a sweet color)
with all the options I wanted, and the rest is history...
I would also like to mention the dealership I worked with- Van Bortel Subaru (in Victor, NY).
During my 7+ month research quest, I interacted with pretty much every different type of
dealership imaginable: everything from the "pushy-don't-bother-me" types all the way
through "I want to make this the best vehicle-buying experience you've ever had" type.
Van Bortel was *definitely* the latter- in fact they were absolutely the best dealer
I've ever visited! My first interaction with them went something like this:
[I'm climbing all over one of the Subarus on the lot]
"Hi, can I help you?"
"I'm just looking at the different models here."
"That's cool. I'll be inside- let me know if you have any questions. Here's a
license plate you can use for a test drive. All the vehicles have keys in them
already, so just slap this on the back of whatever you want to try, and bring the
plate back inside when you're done..."
Wow! They've really got a great overall philosophy. In a recent thread here, some
folks were talking about having routine oil changes done at a dealership- Van Bortel
offers $10 oil changes for the life of your vehicle! Although I traditionally have done
maintenance myself, it's hard to justify my time with such an offer (especially since
time seems to be more and more a precious commodity!). They told me that they want to
do business with customers again in the future, and so they expect to get the vehicles
back as trade-ins. If the cars are well-maintained, they hold a higher re-sale value,
so everyone wins long-term if they provide incentives to have you maintain your vehicle.
Combine their incredible attitude with the best price around and you've got a situation
where it's next to impossible to say "no". In short, I *highly* recommend them...
As a long-time VW owner, I've enjoyed the VW "community"; most VW owners are passionate
about their vehicles, and you don't often hear folks say "I stumbled onto a VW lot and
bought this car on a whim". Imagine my surprise when I found that Subaru owners
have quite the community of their own, with a similar passion! Not only did I get
a really cool machine, but I now have the opportunity to network with a new-found
group of fellow enthusiasts!
Anyway, I just wanted to say "Hi" and thank everyone for participating in this forum.
It's good to meet you all!
-- Geordie
The problem was there from DAY 1, I just didn't notice it until a couple of days after picking up the car. I'm wondering if SOA should be notified as this seems to be a problem with more than 1 or 2 cars. My advisor said that they have fixed another one with the same problem, Hmmmm?
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
As a former VW owner I can see how the decision process takes you to an Outback. I aslo had a lovely 91 GTi 8v which gave me immense pleasure. the blast you get from chucking a GTi over fast winding roads is somedthing you just can't replicate. However, the Outback is even more stable and dramatically more fun when things get slippery. Alos the brakes are better!
I had a VW Passat immediately before the Outback. Similar idea but different outcome. If I was back to continuous high speed freeway travel I would have the Passat. For the travellling I now do which can include sheep paddocks and other strange bits, the Outback is much better.
Look forward to hearing your views over time, particularly driven back to back with the Golfs
Cheers
Graham
As another satisfied Van Bortel customer, I second your comments about that dealership. Not only have I had a great buying experience there, but by service experience over the past 2 1/2 years has been superb (I have a 2K OBW with 42K, purchased 11/2/99).
-Howard
On the strong advice of my Subie dealer, I did switch to synthetic for the tranny and engine. you might talk to your dealer.
BTW, it looked lonely in the garage, so I added a WRX wagon to go with it. Now I have the best of both worlds.
Mike
Steve
Congrats and welcome, Geordie.
The VDC is really nice. VW will add stability control to the 4Motion next year, I hear, but it would have cost far more. You get strong value at Subaru.
-juice
My CD player stopped playing one day (they are not designed for highly repititios ejecting in the hands of two year olds), so I switched back to the factory unit - and it definitely did not sound as good. When I got my eclipse back (covered by warantee - weeee) I put it back in and wow, the high end of music came back.
If you listen to radio the factory deck and the tweeter kit sound great. If you listen to a lot of CDs (loud) an after market deck sounds better than great.
I chose eclipse because they use a security code over a removable face. It also does not transform the dash into the lights of vegas. Now I'll buy them again because of the warrantee.
-steve-v
One note - does everyone get pretty good service from their Subaru dealer? Renick Subaru/Cadillac in Fullerton provides me with such good service that I am starting to feel guilty! I think they are just a solid dealership and the Subaru owners benefit from the Cadillac level of customer service.
So far so good.....
Matt
I have a 2000 Outback wagon with less than 30k miles. It's my fourth scoober. I saw in some earlier messages that others were having the mystery burning rubber smell eminating from under the hood and somewhat through the vents. I don't live where the roads get salted, I haven't run over anything, and the car started this smell about two months ago. There are no puddles of oil or anything else under the car.
I've had the techs tell me it was CV boot leaks, but now that they've replaced both of them, the smell remains. I'm about ready to take my car in for the third time on this problem. There are no TSBs or recalls regarding the smell.
Has anyone successfully resolved the issue?
thx for any info!
/PB
Al
I don't know if anyone has posted anything like this, but I've recently noticed on my '02 base OB 5 speed, that the clutch shudders (and the Subie along with it) on gentle startups when it's wet outside. Of course I thought it was my driving technique, but I've been driving sticks for years, and I honestly don't think so. If I really feather the clutch, or do an abrupt engagement, it doesn't do it, but when I'm not thinking about it, it surprises me with the shuddering.
Anyone else?
David
The clutch shudder seems to be a fairly common thing among 5 speeds for some reason. I had the same issue in my 2000 OB, and I was able to have the clutch replaced at 34,600 miles because I had service records from before 15K showing the problem.
Be sure to let your dealer know so there is evidence of it before 15K so that when it gets worse, they can replace it under warranty (before 36K). I have 42Kmiles now, and do not have the shudder [yet?].
-Howard
-mike
The local dealer, which is absolutely awful, seems less than interested in a sale and I've heard from several people that their service department leaves something to be desired. Does anybody know of a good dealership in the Madison, Wisconsin area (+/- 120 miles)?
I've also heard that repairs on a Subaru are very expensive, in particular the exhaust system. I'm not worried about the reliability, just what I can expect to pay for general maintenance items. I don't have the time or the tools to do repairs myself and don't want to have to take out a second mortgage to pay for a typical repair item. Have the costs that people have been experiencing within reason? Are they anymore than a Nissan or a Honda?
Thanks in advance.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Anyone else have problems keeping those rubber feet on the deflector? Solutions?
--Jay
Mike k
Good luck. I would definetely recommend an Outback. Especially up here in the frozen tundra.
David
Subaru offers several extended warranties (Classic or Gold), and you can choose your deductible, or have no deductible. It's your choice.
Bob
YetAnotherDave
We rebuilt the automatic trans on the Legacy at 176K, probably due to neglect in changing the trans fluid. Its electronic clutch pack at the center differential got tight after around 190K; an expensive repair we're putting off. There have been the usual brake jobs every 50K or so + replacement of timing belts 80-100K, radiators at around 150K with the Legacy. This is all normal high mileage car stuff. There have been a few minor, annoying electrical fixes with each car (Toyota beats this). BUT.. Neither Subaru has needed anything done to the exhaust! The older Toyotas tended to need exhaust work every 50k or so after a while.
To me, Subaru is almost as good as Toyota as far as general toughness and reliablity go - and a better value because their overall design, character and AWD capabilities in every model. This puts Subaru at the top of the heap.
John