Subaru Legacy/Outback

tidester · February 2003

Don't worry - Fibber's fibbing! :-)

This is a very friendly group!

tidester, host

otis123 · February 2003

I'm the one who relayed the comment from my Subaru mechanic...he stated that the H6 engine is the most trouble-free engine he has ever seen, so far. He works in a Ford/Subaru dealership.

We have 38K trouble-free miles so far. Need to get new tires, though...starting to slip on the snow. If it didn't have AWD I'd be in the woods by now...

Ralph

bat1161 · February 2003

Congrats on the fine choice! You will definitely love the car. The H4 works beautifully.

Mark

kens · February 2003

Tamara,

Good buy! Congrats.

How deep is the scratch? If you can, try not to use touch-up paint -- it's very difficult to blend it in properly. The key to fixing scratches and chips is to start with the least abrasive method and then work up. I would first try and see if the scratch is light enough to be hidden by some wax. If not, try some polish or swirl remover. Anything more than that, you may want to consult a professional depending on what your tolerance is for perfection.

Ken

toboggan · February 2003

Geeze, you must have the 6 cylinder. I haven't tried to redline in 5th gear yet (51,000 miles). Usually either have bike racks on top in summer or ski box and "Q" rating tires in winter. Maybe I'll see how fast it will go when it gets warm again. Have not gone 140MPH since my '65 AH MkIII (when I was young and crazy).

MNSteve

paisan · February 2003

Yes my SVX has a 3.3l H6 along with some very long gearing. Top speed is allegedly 155, though I haven't gotten past 140 yet. Theoretical top speed if you could get to redline in 4th is 193mph, but there isn't enough power to do that.

-mike

ccampbell4 · February 2003

Our remotes have been getting weaker and weaker over the last several months. There are places I go regularly where they don't work at all because of radio waves from towers, etc. This is very annoying. Any ideas what might be the problem? Maybe it's the batteries, but our Rodeo remotes are strong as can be after almost five years. The Outback is only a year old. Anyone else have these problems?

ateixeira · February 2003

One of my remotes didn't last very long. The other seems to be better. It probably is the battery.

-juice

angiep1 · February 2003

Hello, I am look at buying a used Outback. The selection is rather limited in my area (ohio). We have found 2 possibilities: 98 Limited with 52,000 miles for $12500 and a 99 Basic with 63,000 miles for $11500 (with a new CD player). Is the 11000 miles less on the 98 worth $1000? Or is it better to go with the newer year and more mileage? Leather seats and the other extra stuff included in the Limited is not that important to us. Any opinions you want to share would be appreciated.

This will be our first Subaru - we are dedicated Honda fans that want an all-wheel drive wagon. We already have a CRV and love it.

ateixeira · February 2003

It's close enough that here's a tie-breaker I would propose:

Has the '99 with 63k miles already had the 60k service, with receipts to prove it? That'll save you $600 or so. If it's been done, go with the '99.

If not, you'll have to do it right away, so your costs jump up. Also, it means the previous owners was *not* careful about doing service on time, so I'd avoid it entirely.

-juice

nygreg · February 2003

is also worth more due the the MY. Same powertrain on both (I believe?). With a used car it really comes down to $$ and how well the car was cared for. Do they have service records? If you open up your search area, perhaps you can find more choices. I am surprised to hear that Subarus are not popular in Ohio (or people don't want to part with them).

Greg

kens · February 2003

Try checking the wirless entry head unit in your vehicle has it's antenna properly positioned. I'm not 100% sure where it is in the OBs, but in my Forester, it's located under/behind the dash right past the hood release. The antenna should be pointing up.

I'd go with the MY99. Most of them have the hybrid engines with Phase I headers but Phase II shortblocks.

Ken

hammersley · February 2003

My remote still works, original battery, 3 years later. It's a bit weaker (range-wise) compared to the fob on my wife's keychain, but she rarely uses hers. Maybe I should just switch 'em when she's not looking!

For extra range, try holding it up to your chin, with your mouth open, then push the button. Yes, indeed, you may very well get some strange looks, but it does impress the kids, and it really does work!

(Rehearsing for the info-mercial segment on "Whose Line")...
Cheers!
Paul

mjmille7 · February 2003

I replaced the battery in mine after 10 months, but think now it wasn't the battery but the cold. When the temps drop below zero, the thing doesn't want to work.

tchase1 · February 2003

I'm caught in a dilemma over buying a new CRV or Outback. If you had to make a choice between the 2, which one (new) would you buy and why? I know you haven't bought the Outback yet, but why do you want that now that you have a CRV? Maybe because you like them both, as I do?

Please reply--or anyone else who might have insight into this.

mfsb · February 2003

Both of my remotes have been very weak from day one. Sometimes I have to be right next to the car for it to work. I have never seen another car with a remote that performs this poorly.

Bill

kens · February 2003

I also do the point-remote-under-chin trick to get the extra distance. I don't think you need to keep your mouth open, though. ;-)

As for the CR-V vs. Outback, it really depends on what you're looking for. Both vehicles are wagons with the ability to do light duty off-roading. The CR-V will ride taller, but trade off cornering stability. The OB has more floor space, but gives up the high ceilings.

Some other things to consider:
- The CR-V's AWD system is part-time only
- The OB will be remodeled soon (some say as early as this summer)
- The CR-V is based on a Civic, the OB on the Legacy

Test drive both -- that's the only way to really know.

Ken

c_hunter · February 2003

I test drove the original CR-V back in 2000, before I bought my Outback. I thought it was pretty anemic and had terrible handling. Otherwise, I liked it. I have several coworkers who love their first-gen CR-Vs.

Before we bought my wife's Forester in August 2002, we drove the new CR-V. Definitely had more power than the original CR-V, and handled better than the original (though it still leans like an SUV). We did not like the interior of the new CR-V -- seemed very low-budget with Fisher-Price styling cues.

Comparing the Outback to the CR-V, I would say the Outback has a definite edge in handling, power, and comfort while cruising down the highway (less noisy too). The CR-V feels like a jacked up Civic, while the Outback definitely feels more refined and car like. But, the CR-V is bigger and a little roomier, and that may be important to some people.

I think the defining issue is how both vehicles drive and how that fits in with your personal preferences. I know people who love their Outbacks, and I know people who love their CR-Vs. So clearly, both vehicles are appealing!

Craig

ffsteve · February 2003

I've found the remotes for our Outback to be OK for range, but think that difficulties in actuating the locks are more a problem of contacts in the switches than range. I get pretty good range, but sometimes must squeeze and squirm the button a bit to get it to work.

One time I parked where the remote simply did not work, no matter where I held it, or how I pressed the button, until I was standing right next to the car. Didn't try opening my mouth though. I thought the battery had failed (after less than two years), but at the next stop 5 minutes later full range returned. I intend to return to that same place and see if the failure returns.

Steve

angiep1 · February 2003

Thank you for the input comparing the 98 & 99 Outbacks. Both cars are coming off a lease and neither have service records. The 98 (52000 miles) was under warranty until the lease was up. I am not sure on the 99 (63000 miles). The dealer is saying the Limited package is a $1,000 value. Would you agree?

We live out in the country so that is probably why my selection is low... or that no one wants to give theirs up.

I am definitely not the person to ask for a comparision on the CRV vs Outback just yet. We like our CRV because of the all wheel drive, higher ground clearance and flexible space. Another driving factor for us was Honda reliablity and wider selection. We are pursuing the Outback for our second car mainly because my husband has this burning desire to get one...no, really because we wanted an all wheel drive wagon for space reasons. We didn't like the Forrester and didn't want his and hers CRV's, which left the Outback as our best choice.

Angie

wrxsoon1 · February 2003

Angie,
Your husbands name wouldn't be Steve, Dave or Mike would it? LOL!

You'll have to read the Meet the Members board to find out what I mean. ;-)

-Ian

hypov · February 2003

Kind of odd that both cars do not have service records.
Do you have their VINs available? If do, contact SoA @ 1-800-SUBARU3, tell them that you're looking to purchase and ask if they could pull any service record available in their database.

-Dave

nygreg · February 2003

I feel the CRV compares more to the RAV4 and Forester. The OB more with the A4/Passat 4 motion and Volvo.

Ian - LOL!

The FOB range could be designed to be short for security reasons. If someone gets your FOB they could just walk around the parking lot trying to find which car is yours. A short range limits that ability. My Sienna will re-lock the doors after you open them with the FOB if you don't open a door within x seconds.

Greg

ateixeira · February 2003

My wife was shopping for a new car last year, and we tried both of these, and actually ended up with a Legacy L.

The CR-V finally got a decent engine and has a super-roomy back seat. It's cute and Hondas hold their value well. Crash tests are finally up to snuff for this generation as well.

On the other hand, they still do miserably in rear bumper basher tests, and front leg room was lacking for me. I could not get comfortable. Plus it's a little loud and doesn't handle very sporty. Finally, the rear door opens and blocks the curb, Honda didn't reverse it from the Japanese version.

We drove an LL Bean Outback and it was better in every way, though we decided it was beyond our price target. It was my pick but my wife wanted to spend less than the $26k or so at the time.

Enter the Legacy L, which compared to the CR-V handles better and rides more quietly. It addresses the bumper and the tailgate issues. Safety, fuel economy, and acceleration match the Honda, but it costs way, way less. We paid $17,827 for ours and added a moonroof for $900, while the CR-V EX would have been about $21k.

No regrets. Subaru offers a 67% longer powertrain warranty, and you get 3 years of roadside assistance vs. none for the Honda.

-juice

david55838 · February 2003

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has walked around his Outback clicking away to no avail. The dealership has been no help - saying 'That's just the way they are'. Other cars with remotes have performed much better in all circumstances. Could it be the placement of the receiver under the hood?

David

paisan · February 2003

My guess would be the batteries. Since it works for some people and not for others. That is the biggest variable.

I know my SVX remote doesn't have the same range as my Trooper one.

-mike

angiep1 · February 2003

Thanks for the Subaru phone number. I was able to get the dealerships phone numbers that the car were serviced at. Found out the 98 was well maintained with regualr oil changes, tire rotations, etc. The dealership I called regarding the 99 only had on record 1 oil change and a new transmission at 50,000. The service man said they have had problems with 99 transmissions so this was not unusual. Has anyone heard about such problems?

Angie

ateixeira · February 2003

Autos? No, those are nearly bullet proof. Failures are rare.

Still, I'd get the well maintained '98.

-juice

ladywclass · February 2003

I drove all kinds of small SUVs (since that's what I THOUGHT I was in the market for) before buying the Outback. I found nothing with the legroom and comfort of the Outback .. including the CRV ... felt 'cramped' to me ..
however ... the pseudo stepsons' mom has a CRV and they seem to love it .. lol
(her legs are SHORTER than mine!)

ateixeira · February 2003

The CR-V's front seat felt a little cramped to me, too. Not enough leg room. But the rear seat is cavernous.

-juice

nygreg · February 2003

you seem to have enjoyed writing that post!

hypov · February 2003

angiep1 Feb 12, 2003 4:49pm

Angie-
I second what Juice said.
go with the '98.

-Dave

lucien2 · February 2003

We shopped both models too. At the time we were both driving SUV's and liked the commanding view. But we were also driving "old school" trucks with stiff, cargo-oriented suspensions that did a more than adequate job of taming body roll (at the expense of ride comfort). So the CR-V and the RAV4 were both on the list of potential replacements. We didn't care for the RAV4's anemic power and buzzy cabin, so it was off to the Honda dealer.....our impressions were similar to those above. Decent space, pretty well laid out, annoying right-hand-drive bias to the rear door hinge. But the test drive killed it for us; like riding in a plam tree during a hurricane. Too much lean and squishy understeer. The Outback made a much better fit for us. In retrospect I probably would have gone even farther and gotten a Legacy wagon instead. I just don't need ground clearance at all anymore, and would rather have the handling.

nygreg · February 2003

Oops. Just trying to add a little levity. Hope I didn't offend you.

Greg

tchase1 · February 2003

Most of what you said I was thinking or feeling. The OB has the upper hand, but then this is an OB forum, too. If you were truly unhappy with the OB you probably wouldn't be here.

It's petty of me, but if only the OB had a cassette along with their CD, I wouldn't hesitate. I hate paying that much for a car and having to go out an add another piece. I have a great selection of blues tapes, and have to listen to them when I'm driving alone (my wife vetoes that when she's with me). Any ideas on an inexpensive but cheap cassette insert? No, I'm too lazy to install myself.

P.S.Lucien--we have a Legacy LS (95). Even though I haven't been disappointed with my choice, I have always wistfully looked at the OB when it drove by. Much more pleasing aesthetically.

hypov · February 2003

Tom-
I offered to swap my CD/Tape/Radio/WB for that in the OB Tamara was gonna get. She hasn't decided on taking it up.
So I'll extend that same offer to you if you're interested.
If you're in NYC, we'll install it.

-Dave

ateixeira · February 2003

Tom: Pat found a take-off WRX 6CD+cassette player today for $80. Actually that included speakers, even!

Don't sweat the stereo, while that bargain is a bit unusual, you won't spend more than $150 to get everything you want. I installed two of them myself, it's not hard.

Or just accept Dave's generous offer. Don't worry, I've met him, he's not an axe murderer. LOL

-juice

tamara6 · February 2003

Hi Dave,

Sorry, I guess I didn't tell you. Our new OB is a 2002 and it has the cassette player. I thought you wanted the radio/cd player from the 2003 OB.

We'll probably go with adding in the Subaru cd player (horribly expensive though it is), just so we can have it all (am/fm/wb/tape/cd).

Tom, we know just what you mean about having a tape player. My husband and I both have tapes we only listen to in the car. It was important for our new car not to loose that functionality. (Actually, our old car already lost it - the tape player went out. So it is GREAT being able to listen to our tapes in the car again).

Gosh, I love this car :-)

Tamara

c_hunter · February 2003

If you get the Outback Limited or LL Bean, it comes with a CD/Tape/WB radio in a single 2-DIN unit. Actually pretty nice.

Craig

dude · February 2003

I'm not sure if somebody covered this topic before but I just wanted to share my experience. While I didn't run out of gas, I came very close and what I noticed is that automatic transmission dropps gears pretty frequently in this case. I was pretty scared when it happened because I thought my grear box was going bad and made it very dangerous driving the car. However, I was able to get to the gas station safely and fill it up.

hypov · February 2003

Well Tamara,
Actually I'm not in need of any of them.
I offered to swap my AM/FM/TAPE/CD/WB unit since you'd mentioned that what you were looking at did not have a tape player.
Glad that all turn out fitting for you.

-Dave

hypov · February 2003

Leonid-
Dangerous because of a transmission going bad,
or
Dangerous because of what the transmission is doing?

-Dave

ateixeira · February 2003

Tamara: glad to see you join our ranks, even more glad to hear you're happy with your Soob.

Keep those tanks at least half full while it's this cold, or you'll get condensation. Try to make a habit of filling up early.

-juice

paisan · February 2003

I'm not sure I understand your post. Could you clarify?

-mike

tchase1 · February 2003

Dave--Thanks for the offer, but we live in Oregon. We will be heading out your way in the fall, but I suspect I won't be able to wait that long. I know, $150-$200 is not much in comparison to what I'm paying for a car. I'm just a tightwad and lazy.

Anybody--Any suggestion on make of tape player? Will I need to add an pre-amp?

I enjoy music so much that a little extra would be worth it to me.

kmclean · February 2003

Howdy, All,

Coming up on 30K with my 2K OB Ltd (H4). I plan to do a couple of the easy maintenance jobs myself, including the plugs. The manual suggests several recommended plug types (I plan to use a top-line platinum plug), but doesn't mention the gap setting (I had copied it down from a way-earlier post, but would appreciate a more definitive source).

Appreciate the help!

Ken in Seattle

ateixeira · February 2003

Whoa, Tom, you'll want to check this out:

http://cartalk.cars.com/Tools/survey-results-rc-top-bot.pl

Go to 1998. It's rather amazing, but they list the 1998 CR-V as the single vehicle with the highest repair costs for that year. Bizarre because it's reliable.

Any how, this is the slam-dunk you may be looking for...Outback made the top 10 list for the lowest repair costs.

-juice

awdnewbie · February 2003

Hello, I have an 02 Bean with 3500 miles that is used in NJ and is always gararged, I have noticed that my rear muffler and pipe to Cat have a large amount of rust. Does anyone else have this issue. The dealer will be called on Monday . Thanks.
Mario

kens · February 2003

Interesting link, juice. Who would have known? I wonder if that factors in the fact that rear-end accidents can cost more to repair with the CR-V? But then again, it's not on the list for '99.

Ken

jfl · February 2003

for 2000 Legacy and Outback: 1.0 - 1.1 mm (0.039 - 0.043 in)

Tightening torque: 20.6 +/- 2.9 N.m (15.19 +/- 2.14 ft-lb)

Recommended plugs were:
Champion RC10YC4 or RC8YC4
NGK BKR6E-11 (the -11 is the preset gap)
Nippondenso K20PR-U11

The recommended plugs are not platinum.
(Information from 2000 Service Manual.)

When I changed mine, the most difficult thing was removing the wire boots.

Jim

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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