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Comments
sold in WI. No major problems but some observations: Fuel economy averages 24 mpg. Seats
can be uncomfortable as only the bottom of the seat moves, not the whole seat as in many domestic cars. Steering wheel is to far from the
driver (I am 6'-0") causing a long arm reach. Armrests are useless to me as they are way to low.
Power steering pump SCREAMS at low temps (under
10 degrees). Dealer says this is normal. Alloys
wheel are starting to corrode around the center
inserts. Smell of burning oil at idle (not the
cosmoline/undercoating smell when new). Good ride
and handling. Anyone else have similar problems?
GAM
Of course I meant hitting the mountains...although there was so much hail yesterday it looked like snow.
Can I ask a silly question to y'all?
Did you keep the middle headrest on? I found it blocks vision from the AUTO-DIM MIRROR w/ Compass (a must accessory)so took it off and just chucked it in a closet...just curious thanks.
CF
Stephen
GAM: Your MPG is good, at least! I live in SE Wisconsin. My '00 OB doesn't scream in low temps. I haven't smelled any burning oil at all. I did get that undercoating smell - but only for the first few months of ownership. I take that back - I did get it once this year after a long drive at 70+ mph. Did you notice the oil smell after an oil change? Maybe they forgot to replace the washer that goes on with the drain plug.
-Brian
I change my own oil (it is so easy). There are no
leaks before or after the change and I wipe all the oil off the engine. There really is no place for it to drip on an exhaust manifold anyways. The
dealer couldn't find a problem. I must say the car is fun in the Wisconsin winter. I drove a Beano this week as my wife can't drive a stick.
Poor acceleration from a stop, but once you hit 3000 rpm it moves pretty good. Pretty steep price
though at $30,000. Dealer says sales are so-so.
And why oh why doen't Subaru offer privacy glass
as an option? It seems that with the outdoorsy type reputation they have, they would at least consider it, one to hide your camping gear, and two to keep your car cooler in the summer sun.
1. the power is excellent, so much better than the 4 in every way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Climate control didn't work as well as expected.
3. Love the new steering wheel
4. Seats are still too small and hard, just like the other Subarus hell on a trip.
5. I love the OB but it is just too small for me if the gear shift was on the column and that console out of the way to make room for your knee, I would consider.
6. I will buy the first one that Subaru makes full size, I feel they are a super product and can't say enough good about them,( that is if they get the mileage they claim in the h-6 my dealer said the only complaint they have had out of the ones they have sold is the very poor mileage, 18 is just not acceptable in that little small box, to give up that much room you should get something. OVERALL, IF THE MILEAGE IS AS IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE I WOULD ALWAYS GET THE LL BEAN OVER THE OTHERS,
Wait though they are coming with more deals and financing, dealers are advertising invoice and some invoice minus $500 they are quite expensive and everyone on here and the dealers them selves said Subaru is scrambling to pick up the sales with more incentavies.
GOSH I WISH THEY WERE LARGER.....
Just to make you feel homesick, I was in Sydney yesterday for a really good storm. Sort of like the great hail disaster of 1999 but we got rain rather than hail. A good day to be in an Outback.
Hope you are liking San Diego and the Outback
Cheers
Graham
-andy.
Given its weight, it really should have a larger (3.5?) H-6. The larger (but easier spinning) H-6 will certainly improve performance, and probably not hurt the gas mileage. Keep in mind, larger engines that loaf, often get better "real-world" mileage than smaller engines that are always screaming.
Bob
Becky: the rear spoiler is probably mostly cosmetic, but I can see how it would keep the rear window clear in some situations.
Don't overlook aftermarket tint. Mine was $170 for all 7 windows.
-juice
Do I need to get in here to keep the posts going? Someone mentioned a good point about Subaru's being so heavy and that killing gas. Looked into it and Subie's are definitely heavy. Could be a result of the safety issues. Strong cage and bars in doors etc. I have not gotten my accessories and Klassse. That stuff should be in next week. So I will have to wait til the following weekend to do it. I will be sure to post the results. Juice, apparently this Klasse works extremely well on the wheels too! Although there is no salt problem in CA! Here is a question. Do you guys think that the cars that are manufactored to be sold in CA and places with no salt have a cheaper version of rust protection? Or are all cars manufactured the same way? Thanks
Still, the weight penalty is not nearly as big as for Audis, for example.
It's probably not cost effective to use different undercoatings for each location. Besides, a lot of SoCal owners take their Soobs to the mountains. There is a lot to see out there!
-juice
PS Folks - let me invite you to join our Subaru Crew chat tonight at 9pm eastern, about 4 hours from now. We usually get about 7 to 9 regulars chatting away, with an occasional newbie popping in to ask questions. You are very welcome to come even if you're new or just shopping, in fact I can't think of a better place to ask a group of experienced owners about their Soobs. Go to the Owners Clubs topics, then the Subaru Crew folder, and follow the link at the top of that page...
owned it. Dealer thinks this should be a warranty
issue. I'm waiting 'till winter is over to see if
the other two wheel corrode. I've also just developed nasty creaking noise over certain types of bumps. It appears to be coming from the front
of the vehicle on only appears when the suspension is unloaded. Impacts with a bump does not cause the creaking. Any thoughts?
GAM
I think I know why the brakes squeek!!! A defect? Depends. If you look at the front of a Subie, you will see we have nice fog lamps in the bottom. If you look in front of other cars you will notice that there would be an opening there for air to be funneled to the brakes. I think the brakes squeek simply due to the accumulation of brake dust. If there were no fog lamps and a hole instead the brakes most likely would not squeek. Solution! Just hose down your wheels thoroughtly when you wash the car. And then make sure to dry the brakes before driving off. Should work!
Now here is a question? Why on Earth aren't fog lamps YELLOW like in every other country where fog is a problem. I have yet to see white fog lamps in Europe. In fact in Europe (france) some cars' headlights are yellow! Mercedes all come with strong yellow lights next to the headlights. I have turned on my Fog lamps and don't really notice much difference. You see more light on the sides. But I only notice a difference in driver's side...
Happy Friday!
Now, I need some general buying advice. I am planning to buy a 2001 Forester. I will trade-in my 1991 Nissan 4X4 pick-up. It has a cracked windshield and some minor surface rust on the exterior (over the tires). It also has 215,000 miles on it. No mechanical problems, though. Should I spend the money to fix the windshield and rust before trading it in, or am I better off just cleaning it up and using the repair money for the down payment? Thanks!
Sounds like you took care of the wheels. That's odd that the finish has eroded.
Anibal: That can happen to drums, but discs are exposed so any dust that accumulates will get scraped off next time you apply the brakes. That's why our wheels get dirty so quick, much more so with discs than drums.
For drums, each time you wash the car spray the drums from the bottom inner side. I do this routinely. The discs are self-cleaning, though.
Ironically, wetting the brakes can actually accelerate oxidation, so if you leave the car sitting after a wash, they'll actually squeek even more than usual.
Patti (from SoA) said that the pads have more metallic content than most, and so they oxidize and squeek, but only when they haven't been used for a while.
-juice
PS Jason: I would consider donating that car instead. They'll offer you nothing for it, so get a tax deduction and feel happy with yourself. I would definitely not fix anything on it.
Yellow fog lights do cut down on the glare reflected back from the fog droplets, but only because the yellow diminishes the light output somewhat. Effectiveness of fog lights is dependent on them being mounted low and having the correct beam shape (flat top).
In France, headlights have been yellow since the year dot, when no-one knew much about it. I assume this was to reduce glare from poorly designed reflectors. I used to have to put yellow plastic things over my headlights when venturing across the channel, partly to convert the left hand dip/dimming action to right-hand and partly to stop being flashed (no, not that kind) by other drivers. And yes, this did cause the high beams to point into the fields on the right hand side of the road.
What really bugs me about the OB and presumably all other cars here in N. America is that you can't have your fog lights on without the headlights, and the glare reflected back from the headlights is what you are trying to eliminate by providing fog lights to use instead. So the big butch macho look of the fog light equipped SUV is just a marketing gimmick.
And why do some people use them all the time, even when there's no fog? I once got a ticket for using yellow fog lights when it was not foggy. This was about 15 years ago, 5 years before mandatory running lights in Canada. But I already knew that keeping lights on at the front reduced accidents, so I used my fog lights rather than the headlights & tail lights because the drain on the battery was less (important when you have an old car with an old battery). Didn't impress the cop though.
Keith
Actually, fog lights in Europe are usually white. The yellow is a hold over from the French who for some arcane reason introduced yellow lights at some point. A lot of English manufacturers apped a French one (Marchal?). I gather that they are now white in line with EU standards. The yellow colouring actually reduces light output reduing their effectiveness.
When Brits travelled to Europe you used to have to paint the lamps a yellow colour before crossing the channel. This was an interesting exercise as you also had to instal cutouts to stop your left kerb aimed lights blinding drivers when you drive on the right side of the road. If you have a look at a headlight lense, you will see that there are sections which diffract the light in different directions and right hand drive lights have different cut outs to left hand drive. Some cars have a lever behind the lights to do a switch over. I think BMW did it by rotating the bulb about 15 degrees.
As to using fog lights in day light, this is a bad move. Fog lights are meant for fog and fog only. They tend to glare other road users and should not be used in substitution for sidelights or dipped headlights which are focused away from oncoming cars.
Rear fog lights, or more usually one rear fog light only, are routinely fited to European cars. They are a high intensity bulb intended to give greater warning from behind. Again they should only be used in fog as they tend to distract other road users night vision (they are very glaring) in normal conditions and do not allow following drivers to judge the distance perspective to the car sporting them, the differential in colour intensity between the sides of the car spoiling judgement.
As to using fog lights without headlights, the only circumstance where I have ever found this necessary was in an intensely thick fog where the headlights were flaring so badly against te fog immediately in front of the car That I could not see the white line on the road. I turned the headlights to park position and used the fogs with them. In general this is not however a good idea.
Cheers
Graham
-Dan
Subarus. The L.L. Bean throws in free scheduled maintanence for 3yr/36000 miles. Basically free oil changes and tire rotations for 3 years (at Subarus schedule).
GAM
Cheers!
Paul
Thanks for the weather report. I'm not missing those hot rainy, humid Sydney summers. I'm originally from San Francisco and am enjoying having a bit of winter after 9 years in Sydney.
I'm told that this is the coldest winter San Diego has had in awhile...loving the Outback thanks!
Caleb
I live in Fairbanks Alaska and a technical team from Subaru Japan was just here for about two weeks running cold weather engine tests on the LLBean. After reading that thread I assume the tests are probably related to the starting problem.
I plan to factory order a VDC this week and was wondering how widespread the problem is and if anyone has any more information on this?
I just looked at the Subaru UK site, they have 2.5 Legacys with VDC over there. So whay can't SOA put VDC in say a 2.5 GT?? They also have side airbags on ALL their cars there.
Have you bought your Outback yet? If you decide to go with a Thomason ad price, I'd like to hear about the buying experience - how long does it take to do the transaction and how was the experience. I would be careful about buying from a Washington dealer if you live in Oregon. You might not be protected by lemon laws in either state. I'm not certain about that, but I would check it out if I were you. Not that I think there is much chance of you getting a lemon, but there is always a small chance. I really like Wentworth Chevy/Subaru. I have bought two Subarus from them and helped my girlfriend buy a Forester from them and the experience has always been good.
-juice
I bought a Camry from Thomason and it was a lowball ad in the paper. When I got there they had the car I wanted at the advertised price. They naturally tried to sell me an extended contract and financing but no pressure. I gave them a check for the car and was out of there in about an hour.No complaints but my deals are always simple. No trade-in and cash. In fact, when I am quoted a price I go to the dealer with a check made out for the amount they quoted and I don't take another check or any money. They take it or leave it, couldnt be simpler.
I called Wentworth about the $26,888 LLB and they told me it was sold. They only advertised one at that price and didn't have anything else.
Thanks for the heads up about the lemon law. I will check into that. I do want to do business with Bud Clary because they are 35 miles from home, unfortunately in another state. I know there is no problem with not paying the sales tax. So what I am trying to do is get the best price from Portland and then take my check to Bud Clary with a reaonable hope that they will take it. They keep telling me they can match anything in Portland and I intend to put them to the test. In the end I owe no loyalty to any dealer but I well might tack on a few hundred to buy from Longview.
BTW, where are you located? Portland metro area?
I'll keep you posted. Good luck in selling your OB
Guy
The raised letter is actually "hollow" and the sides of the raised part are black while the top of the raised part is white. At the point where the side of the letter meets the sidewall of the tire the black rubber is sort of disintegrating and white rubber can be seen underneath it. The other tires are all fine, the pressures are all correct and the mileage is 10,000 km, all but a 100 km or so on paved roads.
I looked for evidence of kerb damage etc, but could see nothing, no scuffing or other marks, and the "Wilderness" on the same tire looks fine.
Anyone found the same thing? I know that these tires are not the same as the infamous Ford Exploder ones, but they are made by the same company.
By the way, tirewall wax does a fine job on the mudflaps.
Grahampeters: You must have lived in the UK too. But your suggestion of using park only doesn't work on my OB because turning the headlights off turns off the foglights too. I suspect that either in the US or in Canada (or perhaps both) there is some rule that forbids foglamps without headlamps, but I don't know this for sure. If there is no such rule a rewiring could be in order, but as Dannyka says, it is only in very thick fog or falling snow that foglights are worthwhile. The kind of fog we get here in Vancouver is not what I would call really thick. The kind we used to get in the UK actually stopped most people from driving at all, with visibility down to 10 feet or so. And those who did drive had to proceed at about 5 or 10 mph or they crashed anyway.
If your dealer of choice offers to match a Thomoson below invoice advertised price, go for it. The prices they advertise are incredible, that's why I asked about the buying experience. They can't be making any money on the car, so I was wondering if they made it tough to buy it if you don't finance through them or have a trade in that they can make money on.
My Klasse kit has arrived today. I am looking forward to putting it on the car over this coming weekend. I got the two bottles 1.) All-in-one 2.) Glaze sealer. I will wash the car on thursday or Friday night to let it dry overnight til the next day. I will attempt to put klasse on sat or sun if it doesn't rain. The instructions tell the user to attempt the half hood test! It seems the manufacturer is very confident of their product. I will see. I will also apply it to the wheels. Especially since the wheels on the OB ltd. are painted gold! I will definitely post the results!
Fog lights without headlights to me is not a good idea. It may let you see better in very dense fog. But it will make you less visible to other traffic!!! That might be the reason you can't turn them on without headlamps being on!!!
However, having said that, Thomason is continually advertising LLB's with MSRP of $30,920 for $27,388. Now having sudied this and talking to Thomason I know what options
that includes (sound upgrade and spoiler and that's it) I can live with that, tho to tell the truth I don't want the spoiler.
In any case $3532 off MSRP sounds ok to me. If I decide on an LLB and BUD Clary will give me that price I will probably go for it. Now I'm just waiting for the proceeds from an IRA to pay for the dang thing. Probably within a week I will make my move, assuming Bud Clary has anything in a color my wife wants (it's white this week)
Are you serious about the LLB? If so why don't you swing by Thomason and feel it out. Can't hurt to look (can it?). It's to far for me to drive just to satisfy my curiosity. I will if Clary turns me down but not until.
Keep me posted on your quest
Guy
I have a 2001 Outback Wagon, "regular" model not a H-6, and I've experienced this problem. Almost couldn't start in zero degrees when car was outside overnight. Someone advised me that there was a defective ECM issue but I haven't gone back to the dealer yet.
Don
We bought it a month ago and we love it. NOTHING can stop this car in a snow storm!
Cheers Pat.
Does anyone know about the extended warranty options available for Subaru's? Is it 7 years 100K? Or 10 years? Also, does anyone know how much this costs? It seems that you have until the regular warranty expires to make the decision. Thanks.
I got widely divergent quotes from 3 different Subaru dealers so it definitely pays to shop around. The one I'm going with quoted around $680 for 6/80000 with $50 deductible for the Gold plan. That's an outstanding value given that many dealers for other vehicles ask upwards of $1500 for comparable coverage. Apparently this is a very high profit item or some other companies aren't as convinced in the quality of their product as Subaru.
Fortunately for me the low bidder on the extended warranty is also selling OB's for $200 under invoice. So they're not trying to make their money on the warranty. (How are they making money?) You are correct, you can purchase up until the expiration of the factory warranty. You may be able to purchase the warranty from a different dealer than where you purchased. Again, shop around!
Similarly, if interested, you probably will find different pricing on Subaru's maintenance plan. Good luck!
Anyway his web site is www.autocost.com if you are interested.
Good luck
Guy