Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • tocatoca Member Posts: 147
    Trade in value on an '03 w/ 5K miles on KBB is 20,500. Private party is 23,385. Adjust up slightly for '04 model.

    However, since I'm buying as "new" and not used I qualify for the special financing rate and incentives. Still, probably can do better if I just tell them I want to buy used and get a used car price.
  • subarunewbiesubarunewbie Member Posts: 1
    We are in the market for our first Subaru. We would like to buy a used model that can handle towing (2000lbs for 500 miles through the mountains, from Berkeley, CA to Nevada and back). We've heard different opinions in regards to what is better: a manual 4 cylinder engine or a 6 cylinder automatic.

    Would love to hear your opinions, experiences and advice.
  • vetmatsvetmats Member Posts: 71
    My two cents,

    I have owned both a 2000 manual 4 cylinder outback and I currently own an automatic 6 cylinder Outback. I haven't done any towing with either cars, so I can't comment on that.

    But I can say the H6 is much much quieter than the H4, especially at highway speeds. The H4 runs at around 3500 rpm and the H6 runs at around 2500 rpm at highway speeds. Also the H6 has approx. 40 more horsepower.

    All in all, the H6 is much more enjoyable to drive. Especially on long trips.
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Newbie -

    I'd vote for the H6 with auto tranny. The extra torque and horsepower will be very useful towing in a mountain environment, and most folks seem to have better luck towing with an auto - rather than trying to finesse the clutch with the extra load.

    Having said that, I have a 2K H4 with a 5-speed that I've been very pleased with in terms of performance and economy - but I don't tow with the car. But hey, as cheap as gas is in California, why would you care about lower mileage and the requirement (recommendation) for premium fuel in the H6?!

    Cheers from Seattle!

    Ken M.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Either is fine, the 4 cylinder is geared shorter and pulls nicely.

    But yeah, I'd still pick the H6, it's over-engineered for a job like that.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    You are definitely better off with an auto-transmission for towing. It's not easy on clutches -- you have to slip them more than normal. With an auto, it's no big deal, the torque converter soaks it all up.

    So I'd say H4-auto or H6-auto. Personally, I agree that the H6 would be better for all the reasons mentioned above.

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    with my '02 OBW H4 auto. When full, acceleration is a bit leasurely, but still adequate. The H6 might be nice for moving off the line. But once underway, the H4 pulls just fine.

    Steve
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I forget who, but I had heard someplace that it is always better to tow with an automatic tranny rather than a manual. It's supposedly is easier.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure it's easier with an auto. When I borrowed Bob's trailer and those wood chips were wet, they felt pretty heavy. You could smell the clutch slipping, a little.

    Then again, I still have the original clutch at 60k miles.

    -juice
  • ckfreundckfreund Member Posts: 24
    When I was recently having service done at the dealer, the mechanic said that the spark plugs should be changed every 30,000 miles. Does anyone else have them changed that often? My 1998 Ford Contour only needs them changed every 100,000 miles.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    30k on the shorter ones.

    The contour may have them in a difficult place to reach and therefor have a longer change interval. My Trooper has 100K plugs but I changed them out at 70K anyway.

    -mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I had mine changed at 30K. Went from Champion to Bosch. I'm at 60K now so I'll probably change them over the next few months.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have my original plugs still at 60k miles, and at 25mpg average it's hard to argue with that. I am about to change them for the first time, though.

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    You didn't mention which model OB you have - but if you're thinking of changing the plugs yourself, go to post #7778 which I wrote about a year ago after I changed them in my H4. It should make the job go a bit quicker.

    Cheers from Seattle...opening day - Go Mariners!

    Ken M.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm about to do that myself, but what do you mean by 5/8" plug socket (7/8" max OD), is that two sockets? OD is outer diameter, right?

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I still had the original NGK Platinums in my '96 OBW when I traded it with 128,000 miles.

    I actually bought new plugs at 60k miles but never got around to installing them.

    Plan to replace the original Champions? with NGK coppers when my '03 OBW hits 30,000 miles.

    DaveM
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now *THAT* is funny. And honest.

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Juice -

    Yep - OD is outer diameter. I recall that the access sleeve down to the plug was a pretty tight fit for the 5/8" (official size) socket - and that it had an OD of 7/8".

    Have fun - run that washer fluid reservoir down near empty if possible.

    Ken in Seattle
  • vermontavermonta Member Posts: 2
    Had an '02 with no problems - got a good deal on an '04 and bought it. The very day I got the car I noticed/felt a minor shudder/vibration in the front end when accelerating slowly from a stop. The dealership said that this was just a new car and needed to be broken in. During the second week of ownership I was coming to a stop to turn around and go in the opposite direction. I came to a full stop, shifted into reverse and stepped on the accelerator and there was a clunking noise and perceptable movement/ shudder of something transmission related underneath and up front of the car. I then shifted into drive and stepped on the accelerator and the same noise and shudder occurred. I have not had a similar experience in the 9,000 miles since then, HOWEVER,there is still a minor shudder/vibration in the front end when accelerating slowing from a start and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, when I am at a full stop - with wheels turned to the left for a left hand turn - when I step on the accelerator, slowly, the right front wheel feels as if it is slipping or not grabbing initially.This is not typical of any other '04 that I have tested. The service dept. and lead technician tell me there is nothing "out-of-spec" and if there is something wrong - I'll have to wait till it outright fails--------------because, it is too expensive for them to take apart and search for the problem. I've called Subaru headquarters and they replied that when they contacted the dealership the response was that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the car. Any suggestions as to what the problem may be and what I may do to get Subaru to stand behind this six month old car? The dealership is not interested in keeping me as a customer.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    A front Differential.

    -mike
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Subaru chat starts in ~45 minutes.

    Link is on the left.

    Steve, Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Make sure your case is registered, even if it's just a "customer says" case number. Get that case number from the 800 folks.

    Can you replicate the problem on demand, every time? If so I'd ask the service writer to take a quick ride with you to demonstrate that there is indeed a problem.

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Don't let them (the dealer or SOA) give you the "nothing's wrong" two-step. This is exactly what lemon laws were designed for. If you're not familiar with your state's program, contact the VT State Attorney General's Office, as they typically oversee the program.

    Every time you encounter a problem, document the problem (feel free to do the sorts of things that bring on the problem), take it to the dealer, get a copy of the work order, and note what (if anything) was done. After doing this three times (typically), you're able to invoke a lemon-law dealer buy-back to replace the [presumably] defective vehicle.

    Don't waste any time doing this - there are usually strict time and mileage limits (you'll likely have to "pay" for the miles you put on the car - in the form of a reduced buy-back payment).

    Good luck!

    Ken in (incredibly warm and sunny) Seattle
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    After doing this three times (typically), you're able to invoke a lemon-law dealer buy-back to replace the [presumably] defective vehicle.

    I believe it's applicable if the problem adversely affect the driveability, safety, and/or re-sale of the vehicle.

    Take Juice's advice.

    -Dave
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    it has to be within a certain time period, not just 3 occurences. It could be during 1 month, varies by state.

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Usually it's within 12mo/12K miles. 3x for safety items, 4x+ for non safety items.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I knew there was a time frame for it, just wasn't sure if it was 1 month. 1 year it is.

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Also that's only a "general" rule, they vary from state to state.

    -mike
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    This is an odd question... I have an 01 Outback Ltd and have noticed a few new details on the 04's. Did they change the lettering to silver for the "Outback" and "Limited" logos? Is this the last of the old style- make a little change type of move?

    Just curious!

    Signed,
    ...still longing for a 6 speed V6 VDC Wagon...
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Yup and Yup. :)

    They also introduced more monotone colors and some with black (unpainted) bumper and side skirts.

    DaveM
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Not likely on subies, unless they get a clone. H6 they have, but no Vs

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Different wheels too. I can't believe Dave forgot that, he was the one that pointed the wheels out to me! ;-)

    Typical last model year changes, i.e. small stuff.

    -juice
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    Sorry, meant the H6. Any chance of a manual shift in the future?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Rumor has it they have mated the 6MT to the H6 in Australia. Hopefully we'll get it in a year or 2. I think the biggest problem is that the 6MTs are in short supply right now.

    -mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    might be here just in time for me to buy one. :)

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's that one special edition overseas with that combo, so we could see it. It would likely be a high-end (read: pricey) model, though.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    at the moment is a "prototype" destined for Europe, Oz, & NZ. Latest word is next fall for those markets. Hopefully we'll see it too.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Oops! You caught me sleeping juice. :D

    DaveM
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I'll start saving now.
  • ericp3ericp3 Member Posts: 1
    Just picked up an 04 OBW MT5 last week. Traded the 00, quite a few improvements, clutch, brakes, no more thump from the front when turning over a bump. Monotone (Titanium Pearl) with black under the bumpers and rocker panels.
    Model in Canada is called Outback Premium, and has quite a lot of extra goodie for $500 over base.
    6-cd in-dash changer, 9 speakers, twin moon roofs, body coloured mirrors and door handles, leather wrapped wheel and shift knob, and 5 spoke wheels, (appear to be the same ones that are on the anniversary edition.
    Specs appear to be same as the Limited, but without the leather seats, and available as MT or AT.
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    Agreed..I will start saving now as well! I purchased my Outback used (ahhh, sorry, "pre-owned") so not as many choices ;) Seems as though everyone in New Englad with low miles has an automatic!
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Finally got around to trying out an 04 H6 Outback, to give me a feel for to how the 05 H6 OB may drive. Let me preface this by saying I have only ever owned MT cars, and maybe need more time to get used to an autobox. But have to say I was underwhelmed. Seemed to be a distinct lack of torque, compared to what I was expecting (OK the last subie I tested was the MT Forester XT), and the autobox disconnects you somewhet from what the motor is doing. I had forgotten how much I dislike the hesitation/lag when flooring an auto car, and the wait and mechanical gymnastics it performs while it decides what to do and what gear to do it in. I heve driven the Forester XT auto, this was much better...

    So I hope that the "new" H6 provides:

    - more low down power, a noticeable butt dyno difference from the revised motor with 250hp/220 ft/lbs, and reduced weight.

    - a real ability to feel more involved via the 5 speed clutchless Sportshift, hope this is something useable rather than a neat marketing feature.

    - generally hope it's fun to drive.

    Why am I even considering an 05 OB H6?

    Over MT turbos - much better mpg, long term reliability (?), relaxed lower rpm cruising, long term license preservation...

    Over Forester - enhanced safety, towing ability, rear legroom, handling (?), bigger trunk (dog crate + kid stuff + camping stuff), better interior, better paint (I hope), maybe better resale.

    Over Legacy - ground clearance and approach/departure angles

    JP
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Don't expect too much from the sport shift. I have never driven one that felt any different than manually moving the gear selector around. Some people think they are like a manual transmission, but they don't even come close. You still have a fluid coupling (torque converter) and that adds a lot of lag and slop into the power transmission.

    Audi offers an automatic "manual" transmission with auto-clutching and gear shifting. It's very intelligent, and can even blip the throttle during upshifts and downshifts. Picture it as a manual transmission that can shift faster and smoother than any human. When you engage the driver controlled shifting mode on that, it does respond like a real manual (except you don't have to worry about the clutch pedal). That is something I could live with!

    I will say this about Subaru's current auto transmissions -- you have to get accustomed to their behavior. Driven normally, my Outback H6 is very leisurely and shifts like a turtle. If you get agressive on the throttle from a dead stop (which invokes the transmission's "power mode"), the car is downright snappy off the line, and the shifts are more abrupt. Some cars have a button on the shifter to engage the power mode, but Subaru does it based on throttle action.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I sampled SportShift in the 2.5GT. It's better than some of the slower-shifting ones I've tried like VW's and Volvo's, but not *nearly* as good as the Porsche Tiptronic on the Boxster.

    Still, worthwhile, I'd gladly pay the extra $200 or so it costs over a regular automatic.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Dunno, but my race car has a '96 4EAT and seems just fine on the auto-x and road courses. I plan on caging the Impreza L as well as putting in a turbo unit and race it next year in road racing. We'll see how it holds up!
    So far it has almost 6K track miles on it and no problems at all.

    -mike
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Wow, haven't been here for months - lots to read!

    Had to nip over to Missoula, Montana last week and took the Legacy. It's no longer an unlimited speed limit in MT, but I couldn't resist the urge to see what the '97 Legacy's top speed was with my bike rack up there. Deserted freeway, 4 mile visibility, fresh Michelins, etc. So I floored it for over a mile and got it to an indicated 107. A while later, I was on a downhill with similar conditions and floored it. What's this? The car has a fuel cutoff at 110 MPH! Interesting. It also shut off the cruise control master switch. To be sure, I duplicated the test.

    IdahoDoug
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, your bike rack passes the test! :o)

    -juice
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    Got a recall notice last Friday from SOA regarding possible defect in cruise control system in H6 and WRX/STI model.

    Alland
  • docrock143docrock143 Member Posts: 18
    Hello all...I just purchased a 2001 Subaru Outback Limited sedan...48K miles on it, real nice shape. Mostly going to be used by my teenage son.
    At any rate, I notice when filling the gas tank (let's say from Empty), that it takes around 30 -45 seconds or so for the gauge to read "Full".
    Is that normal? Does something in the tank need adjustment?
    Thanks for any info.
    Best regards,
    Alan
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    what color? welcome to subie-land! :-)

    Join the discussions in the Subaru Crew threads and the chat tomorrow night.

    -Brian
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