Subaru Outback VDC

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Comments

  • brucel1brucel1 Member Posts: 8
    I was elated that I picked up a 2001 Outback wagon VDC for $1,300.00 below invoice; however, with only 200 miles on the car I hear a rattle noise from the front of the engine. I used an automotive stethescope to pinpoint the noise and hear it occassionally from the front engine cover where the timing chain assembly is. The noise is most noticeable when accelerating or decelerating at about 2,500 rpm. I have owned the car for 5 days and went back to the dealer. They said, if there is a problem, it would be a warranty issue and that there is no way I would get another car for that problem. Has anyone else experienced this type of noise? What recourse action do I have as the car is still new?

    Bruce
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Could also be a loose exhaust shield. Just have them tighten it up. Certainly nothing so extreme to require a complete replacement vehicle, IMO.

    For example, I just read that the BMW X5 has been recalled 9 times. I thought the Escape was bad with 5 so far, but the X5 takes the cake. BMW would probably gladly take any of them back because they can't meet demand as it is.

    -juice
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Bruce, What brand is the automotive stethescope and where did you buy it?

    Thanks.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • brucel1brucel1 Member Posts: 8
    The stethescope is about 15 years old and was purchased from Snap-On. Snap-On is sold through independent dealers in large trucks.
  • brownwjbrownwj Member Posts: 19
    In the Legacy Outback town hall there was a question posed by an outback owner asking if anybody ever heard about Subaru having a problem with a solenoid in the automatic transmission. A mechanic (Described as friend) recommended that the solenoid be replaced at 60K check up. Supposedly, the bad solenoid can cause transmission to fail and you wind up with an expensive repair. Nobody ever answered him either positive or negative.
    How about any of you Subaru reps. Is this a concern that should drive us to replace it even if we are not having a problem.

    This may not apply to the VDC, but I have an LL and I believe it is the same transmission. Also for info I average around 25 mpg in mostly suburban/city driving.

    I also concur with the shifting back and forth in gears on hills especially if you are in automatic speed control.

    My rear hatch door was very hard to close to get the door open light out, so I took it to the dealer and they adjusted it and now it closes fine.
  • edcoak2001edcoak2001 Member Posts: 23
    Brucel1 - I too had an annoying rattle near the front of my engine. Turned out to be a bad bearing on one of the timing chain tensioners. During repair of the problem, my engine magically seized up - resulting in Subaru installing a brand new engine (at about 4000 miles). Check out my posts #604, #638 and #642 for all of the details.

    I promised the board that I would update after my engine replacement, but have been delinquent. After a total of 2 weeks + 1 day, we got our VDC back with a brand new engine and nothing more than a 'sorry' from the dealer or Subaru of America. Yes, they gave me a loaner - but nothing like making a half-month worth of payments for a VDC while driving a base model. I tried to talk them out of a bike rack for my misfortunes, but with no luck (IMO, I think 'sorry' is not enough in this situation).

    In the meantime, we have racked up almost 2000 trouble-free miles on the new engine, and all previous comments about lack of road noise and the great McIntosh stereo hold true.

    Craig in Seattle
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Your loaner should have been a rough equivalent, or at least an LL Bean model. Did they at least agree to extend your warranty? At least give you 5/60 on the powertrain from this point on, instead of from the purchase date?

    Glad to hear it's back on the road, and in your driveway. I guess the H6 is an interference engine!

    -juice
  • edcoak2001edcoak2001 Member Posts: 23
    Juice -

    Yep, the powertrain warranty was effectively re-started from the time of repair. The loaner was given out to us on day 1 thinking that it was only going to be a 1-night keeper. After a several days, we realized we weren't getting our baby back and asked for an equivalent. The answer was 'no', even with repeat requests.

    Sure would like to hear was SOA found out in regards to the engine mysteriously seizing after the dealer replaced the tensioner (Patti - any words that you can share???). My bet is that the timing chain was put on out of phase with the other and they found out on first attempt to crank that it is an 'interference engine'.

    I'll be curious to see if Brucel1 is suffering the same problem we had...

    Craig in Seattle
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't even want to think about all the racket that must have made. Bent or broken piston rods, broken valves, a mess. RIP, H6.

    Glad to hear SoA re-started the warranty.

    -juice
  • anthony_chenganthony_cheng Member Posts: 12
    While installing a bike rack on the roof of my '01 VDC, I accidentally scratched one of the black crossbars on the roof rack. The scratch is not that big...but I just want to cover it up to prevent rust from happening.

    The Subaru parts department says that they do not have a touch paint for this part of the car.

    The person I spoke to in the parts dept suggested that I match the black color as best as possible and use spray paint to repair the scratch.

    Any suggestions? What "shade" of black is the cross bar? Is the color, matte or glossy?

    Thanks

    Anthony
  • dukephotodukephoto Member Posts: 49
    I finally joined the club last Thursday when I picked up my VDC. Already have 700 miles in it (I think I'll just put a bed in the back and sleep in it).
    I know somewhere back in this thread was information on when to switch the oil and tranny fluid over to synthetics. At the risk of being repetitive, could anybody fill me in? It's a long thread to run back through. Would be nice if there was a search engine to find things written previously, but probably just wishful thinking.
    Can't wait for it to snow!!
    Also, does anyone have any dealings with Sharret Subaru in Hagerstown, Md or Winchester Subaru in Winchester, Va? Is one service dept better than the other?
    thanks------ Dukephoto in Martinsburg, WV
  • edcoak2001edcoak2001 Member Posts: 23
    Anthony

    The cross bars are aluminum, so no need to worry about rust. Under normal wear and tear, aluminum won't corrode so to speak, unless you plan on getting near a lot of salt-water (I've got plenty of scratched aluminum mountain bike parts that have held up to years of abuse...). If the scratch isn't very big, I would pull out a black permanent marker and use that to fill in the scratch. I think you'd be surprised at how well it'll work...

    Craig in Seattle
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    you guys just reminded me of the trim problems the legacys had in the early 90s, the black on the metal trim around the windows used to flake off all the time and expose chrome. IIRC they actually even had a recall and would change it for you though my dealer had used a permanent marker to great effect on my car before they had the recall so I never had it changed - I was a little worried about those frameless windows then and worried that removing the rubber trim etc to change the metal would mess up the seal.
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    Dukephoto,
    I'll tell you what I was told and what I did. It was recommended by my dealer that I change my tranny fluid to Redline (their choice), particularly on the VDC, as soon as possible. I did it at about 1000 miles. Most posters on various forums seem to go along with this recommendation.

    My dealer, as did many posters, recommended to wait until about 15k miles to switch the engine oil. Many other posters said to switch as soon as possible since modern engines didn't need a protracted wear in period for internal part seating. I actually switched to Mobil 1 at 6000 miles with the blessing of the service manager; upon questioning, he really didn't see any reason to wait.

    The bottom line is that you can find many expert opinions to justify almost any time frame for changing, but almost all agree that for long term ownership, switching does make sense. I just decided to go with my gut feel and did it quickly.

    Mike in Texas
  • ventanabikeventanabike Member Posts: 11
    Hey juice,

    Did you ever get that high performance custom Folgers exhaust tip on your Forester chrome plated...?? Just checking in for an update.

    I'm still shopping, still shopping, still shopping...hey, some new colors for 02 Soobs, now things are getting interesting. Been going out and driving the competition and then swinging back by the local Soob dealer after whatever I test drive to see if I still get velcroed to the driver's seat of whatever OB happens to be on the lot.

    I need to figure out how to generate real cash flow in my new career as a full-time potential purchaser test-driver....

    Two weeks ago I drove an MDX (believe it or not), last weekend it was a SAAB Aero wagon (what a hotrod....), next weekend, after all my Honey-Doos, we are hitting the Toyota dealer, which coincidentally is just down the street from the Soob dealer...

    Later guys,

    Jesse
    Citrus Heights
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats, Dukephoto.

    Jesse: no, but it adds 15hp and resonates so loud that it sounds like you're driving through a tunnel.

    image

    You're shopping some pricey competition. Nice to have the Soob in that kind of company.

    -juice
  • asfan1asfan1 Member Posts: 4
    Can someone please explain to me the difference between Audi's Electronic Stabilization Program(ESP) and Subaru's VDC system. Is one superior to the other?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The name, basically. Both work by applying the brakes if wheel sensors detect you aren't going in the direction intended.

    It's interesting because Audi used to have torsen differentials, which are better than Subaru's VC setup on the manual tranny. They abandoned that and went with a simple open diffy. That allows the traction control to manage both axles.

    Subaru also allows the T/C to manage both axles. Letting the electronics do the work means less weight and cost, and it's more sophisticated. The trade-off is that the brakes may slow your momentum if you are racing.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    My wife and I are extremely happy with our LLBeanH6 we purchased 2/1/01. We were seriously considering the V70 wagon at the time (let's face it - it looks much better than the Outback), but several Volvo owning friends kept advising us to stay clear of the V70, especially the XC. We probably value reliability the most out of all ownership experiences, so we went with Subaru.

    I'm glad we did. Go to Edmunds' "Volvo V70 Wagon Experience" chat room and check out recent #s 350, 351, and 352. True war stories say so much (thank God for the Internet - and Edmunds!)....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even with the brown cladding crawling around the grille? Yuck. The plain V70 is far nicer.

    -juice
  • yellowbikedonyellowbikedon Member Posts: 228
    I also own an LL Bean wagon, bought last October. Other than replacing the fuel sender chips and the ECM, the wagon has been trouble free for 9,000 miles. I average between 21-22 mpg with mostly city driving and a bit of I-95 here in Florida. The air conditioning is on full time and I have a bike rack on top of the roof. This is my third Subaru ('92 SVX and a '96 Legacy Outback) and it has met or exceeded all expectations. My number one priority has been reliability and then ease of carrying bicycles inside. I haven't been disappointed. I admit I'd love to convince my wife to buy a WRX but, with only 30,600 miles on her '97 Impreza, she claims the car is hardly broken in yet. We both love to drive around our "community" here in Boynton Beach, among the Lexus, Camray, Infinity, Mercedes, and Chrysler owners and just plain smile. With over 1,500 families, I think there's only four Subarus here. Time to spead the word.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With all the beaches, you can promote their traction on sand.

    -juice
  • brucel1brucel1 Member Posts: 8
    Last week I brought my car back to the dealer that sold it to me and explained that I have an engine noise from the front part of the engine at around 2,500 rpm. They kept the car overnight and drove it around stating that the car is fine and they could not hear any unusual noises from the engine compartment.

    I lost faith and confidence in my dealer's service dept. and brought the car to another Subaru dealer. This dealer said the same thing that they could not find anything wrong with the car or hear any strange noises from the engine compartment. I told them to keep the car overnight and drive it again in the morning. They called me the next morning and said that they found a problem with the timing chain assembly and that they are going to replace the timing chains, gears, and tensioners. My car won't be back to me for almost two weeks. The car has 250 miles on it and these miles were accumulated by driving the car to and from the dealership and the dealer testing the vehicle. This really sucks. I'll keep everyone updated as the saga continues.
  • edcoak2001edcoak2001 Member Posts: 23
    brucel1 -

    Sorry to hear, hopefully yours goes smoother than ours - took the dealer a week just to get the new tensioner from Subaru (not to mention a week after that to replace the engine after botching something up during the repair...). Sounds to me like Subaru has a legitimate design and/or manufacturing problem on their hands.

    The good news is that all has been well in the 2000 miles since. Beyond this problem, it really has been a wonderful car. Good luck and keep us posted.

    Patti - Haven't heard much from you lately. Any comments about this timing chain tensioner problem?

    Craig in Seattle
  • petpal2petpal2 Member Posts: 4
    My wife and I are in a process of purchasing 2002 VDC. We're also considering putting in an aftermarket navigation system (alpine DVD based) since Subaru does not offer as an option. Has anyone out there put one in your outback? Could someone give me some words of advice? Any links to pictures would be nice... The only concern we have is how clean the installation will look and any possibility of problems with vehicle warrenty.
    -Jack
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Patti regularly checks Town Hall, Owner's Clubs, Subaru Crew, General Maintenance & Repair so you may want to post the question there. Though she checks here when she has time, the best place to ask her questions is Subaru Crew, M&R. (click the link at the top of this page)

    ..Mike
    Community Leader, Subaru Crew

    ..Mike

  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Unless they can't get the parts that is a one day job, or two at the most. Even fed-ex from Japan would only take a day or two. Am I missing something here?

    Greg
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    Your not missing something, subaru is missing something, an inventory of parts and an efficent distribution channel. My local dealership only orders parts once a week. If you don't want to wait for that order then YOU get to pay the extra shipping. Not that it really helps because it usually takes 2-3 weeks for a part ANYWAY. Once I needed a replacement hose for the emissions system. It seems that nowhere in the US could there be found a small piece of thermally stable rubber with a 30 degree bend in it. It took over a month to get that part in from Japan.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    But in the case of a timing chain, it is costing Subaru money with the loaner car and such, not to mention customer sat. Fed-exing a few parts is an insignificant portion of the cost of fixing the car. I'm suspecting dealer problems here since they might be able to charge SOA more if they have the car in hand for an extended period of time. Patti?

    Greg
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Jack- wouldn't you lose the McIntosh by installating the Alpine (in-dash) Navigation?
    I don't own a VDC, but I'd considered getting the Alpine on my '98 OB. I got a Garmin Street Pilot III instead for probably considerably less than the Alpine. Also, I get to switch it back and forth between the '98 OB and '99 OBS.
    My take on the Street Pilot - haven't gotten lost yet.

    -Dave
  • petpal2petpal2 Member Posts: 4
    Dave - I talked to a few car stereo places and they said the install can be done as an add-on to existing equipment. The monitor unit will need to be mounted just likes a cell phone and DVD unit itself will go underneath the passenger seat (our concern is how it's going to look relatively to the dash). Losing that McIntosh system is not an option for us since we love that unit so much. We love the way DVD based Nav operates in Acura TL (another one we're purchasing beside the outback). I wasn't impressed with other systems such as the one use by Hertz for their rent a car fleet but haven't seen Garmin either to be able to make a judgement on it. I suppose I could just buy a car likes the MDX and be on the waiting list for 8 months and paid close to 40K?? but I'd rather go for the Outback...I owned 2 subarus in the past and loved them, beside I don't really care for SUV anyway.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Just to let you all know, as of today, this discussion topic is now also linked to the SUV message board; appropriate since the Outback is an SUV-alternative vehicle.

    Happy posting,

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    The McIntosh has a BIG and warm (hot?) amplifier under the passenger seat on the VDC. That's how it gets the massive and clear sound. Better not plan on putting anything under there.
    Theo in Colorado
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Jack - Hmmm I've not seen the unit you spoke of, but my guess is the screen would be ~6" and the mounting the screen would need careful consideration. That, with my imagination (I don't have much) I'm picturing the screen -
    if mounted low, (a) would be inconspicous; (b) may obstruct access to McIntosh; (c) get in the way when shifting; (d) not good to look down at screen while driving.
    if mounted higher, (a) flow of dash contour may be disrupted; (b) disrupt airflow from vent; (c) still obstruct access to McIntosh and other controls; (d) still would have to look down at screen, and right hand may block screen...
    I guess you'll have to sit in the VDC to get a feel. Try cutting up a cardboard and play with the placement.
    As for warranty, I don't think there would be any if the installer knows what they are suppose to be doing

    -Dave
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    While it is true that fedexing parts might be cheaper than a rental car (It sure seems like it would be to me) they may not be set up for that. I don't know the specifics of the Subaru parts distribution system but through a friend of mine I have gained some insight into another manufacturing/repair operation on a car brand that shall remain nameless to protect the guilty.

    Sure there is a spare spocket floating around in the US somewhere, probably many at the factory. But if your inventory controls are not set up to record or make it availible it will just collect dust where it is not needed. In order to be "efficient" and "cost effective" you want to warehouse as few parts as possible, make a few numbers of large batches of requests for parts (saves on shipping and warehouse personel). All of these measures tend to pile on top of each other and lead to most unexpected delays and expenses. But the accounting system is usually not set up to report those excess expenses or if it is they don't get charged against the weenie that caused them.

    Case and point
    A number of years ago at UT Austin they were running low on disk space for one of their computer operations. Every time the disks would fill up (despite the best efforts of the computer personel to clear things off) the system would crash, some rebuilding would be nessecary and it would cost somewhere around $3000 in extra labor to get things running again. This was happening on a weekly basis and other important things were not getting done. So the computer dept in question went and submitted a PO for some extra disks. The would be in and installed and up and running by the end of the week, problem solved, life goes on.

    BUUUTTT some bean counter realized "Ah, if we put out a competitive bid for the disks and the hard drive controllers seperatley we can save a buck or two" and dug up some regulation to the effect of requiring that. So rather than having the problem solved by the end of the week they had to wait 2-3 more weeks and ended up with hard drive controller made by company A and disks by company B. For those of you who deal with tech hardware you know that just because the label says they are compatable doesn't make it so. The end result was well of $10K in extra labor costs, weeks of down time and a flakey system until the whole mess was replaced a few years later. All that for a net savings ot $300 on hard disk controllers.

    But you see that $10K of labor didn't come out of the budget the bean counter was responsible for (materials purchases) so at the end of this whole sad affair he was patting himself on the back and strutting and crowing to his boss for saving $300. Heck, he probably got promoted.
  • axmeat1axmeat1 Member Posts: 2
    I have been going through the online inventories of various dealers, there are lots of Beans but hardly anyone has a 2002 VDC. Are the VDC selling so poorly that the dealers are not ordering them?
  • dukephotodukephoto Member Posts: 49
    In speaking to a salesman while looking for my 2001 VDC, he told me that a small percentage of what Subaru produces are the six cylinder models, and of that amount an even smaller percentage are the VDC model (most are Beans).
    Since the dealers sell alot more of the 4 than the 6 cylinder models, they probably get some priority in production.

    Duke in Martinsburg WV loving his car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think among H6s it was 80% Beans, 20% VDCs. Can anyone confirm?

    -juice
  • dukephotodukephoto Member Posts: 49
    If I remember correctly, only 12% of the total Subes are 6 cylinder, and 80-20 was the breakdown on that percentage.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru sold 170k last year, so that would mean roughly 20400 H6s. Now that I think about it, 20k sounds real familiar.

    So, we would then have 16k Beanies and just 4k VDCs per year.

    -juice
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I have had my VDC for 3 months now and have been waiting to see another one so I could honk and wave for the sake of comraderie, but haven't seen another one yet. I didn't even see one in Colorado where the hills are swarming with Subies. My conclusion is that there are not a lot of VDC's out there.

    Actually, I am not sure that Subaru is really that interested in seriously moving up the luxury food chain. I believe they perceive the VDC to justify its cost from superior technology. When they really put a unique and highly finished interior in their top end model (sans plastic), then I will believe they are serious about the near-luxury class. Until and if, they will probably just offer a small percentage of VDC's.

    Mike
  • andyw1andyw1 Member Posts: 8
    My dealer said, while I was looking at 2002 Bean's (I bought one), that the VDC soon would be available only on order, rather than in dealer stock. I haven't heard anything else about this.

    Andy
  • dukephotodukephoto Member Posts: 49
    Drive on over to West Virginia, I'll be glad to honk and wave back!
    I've been doing the same (looking for a VDC on the road) for 4 months now, and that sure is a long dry spell.
    I did alot of research before plunking down my 28 grand, and I feel that anything close would be alot more $$. Granted, I would probably get a nicer interior, but I couldn't really go for more money just for the interior. The interior wasn't the key- AWD, traction control, The VDC were what I paid for.
    Oh yeah- That Mac cranking out the Dead at max volume doesn't hurt either. You'll never read about me complaining about road noise.
    Dukephoto in West by God Virginia
  • vdchawkvdchawk Member Posts: 40
    Here's a long distance HONK to you from New Jersey!

    Keith
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I don't think that Duke heard the honk with the Mac at max volume.

    Duke, do you really play that thing cranked all the way up? I haven't had the courage to do that although I do play it pretty loud. It is really an exceptional system.

    Mike from North Texas
  • pduboispdubois Member Posts: 73
    I know you are all very reasonable people (buying an OB is proof enough) but I cannot resist to place a little hearing health plug here!

    Unfortunately, in my audiology practice I have seen too many people (usually teenagers) with permanent hearing loss for driving their cars with super loud music systems.

    Enjoy the Mac but save your ears, particularly on long trips (the risk of hearing loss is a function of sound pressure level and length of exposure). The last thing we want is to add "Subaru Induced Hearing Loss" to the list of diagnosis!

    ;)

    Pat.
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    I've seen a handful, besides ours. But not a lot. Ours was the only one that the dealership we bought from ever sold. Two months later, they were out of business (Eastern CO plains).
    Theo in Colorado
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's cool that they are rare. It adds a certain mystique. And you don't see yourself coming and going.

    Look at the SVX. Those still turn heads.

    -juice
  • dukephotodukephoto Member Posts: 49
    When I said "max volume", I did NOT mean turned up all of the way.
    I have no doubt that the speakers would blow if the amp were turned up all the way.
    And my ears too.
    The few times I go to see live music nowadays (especially since the birth of my daughter), I always plug my ears with tissue or cotton. Too many years of rock shows NOT doing that has already cost me a portion of my hearing.
  • esqknightesqknight Member Posts: 78
    I know this is a wagan forum, but since it is also VDC -- was wondering if anyone has heard anything good or bad about the VDC Sedan new for 2002.
This discussion has been closed.

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