Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

theory2 · October 2004

Interested in Saab 9-3 Aero. I cannot find any info on rebates or incentives. Do any exist? Thanks.

renees · October 2004

I think I've got a good price on a 2005 Century with the 1SC Limited package -- $20772. This has the $3000 included. (I missed the Sept rebate of $4000 because I unexpectedly had to go to China for a month.) It just erks me that I missed the Sept rebates, so I'm wondering about waiting until the end of Nov or Dec to see if the rebates go up. But right now, there's only 5 vehicles within a 200 mile radius that I'd want. And Century is discontinued after a short run of 2005 models, built March-Oct '04 (is that the end of October?). Do you think I'm taking a big risk by waiting? Is this a popular vehicle that they'd all be sold in the next few weeks? Or should I take the $20772 car?

nortsr1 · October 2004

Does anyone know how many months you have to pay the monthly payment (if you take the rebate plus the 1500.00 finance incentive)...I would like to take advantage of both and then payoff the GM financial part as soon as allowed without a penalty of some sort????

senseless · October 2004

My opinion is the list of rebates on gmbuypower.com is misleading. They list 2 columns; 1 with low apr and then another without. What is unclear is in order to get the full cash bonus, you must finance with them at their regular rates, which are high.

My impression was that one option was with cut-rate financing and the other option was with cash or private financing. It may generate foot traffic, but I feel mislead.

boomer4593 · October 2004

Can I finance with gmac, take the bonus and then refinance the loan ?

robr2 · October 2004

Go to gmsupplierdiscount.com

Under the drop down marked "vehicle shopping" click to regional incentives. A new page should open up. Click your region and it will open another window. Listed there are the current GM incentives available to anyone.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hi theory2. Saab is providing incentives on the 2004 9-3 Aero Sedan this month. It currently has $4,000 dealer cash + a $1,000 cash bonus for Aero models ($5,000 total) or special lease support on this car.

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jdukie1 · October 2004

Does the amount of the rebate come off the sale price of the car BEFORE sales tax is calculated? OR... is the rebate amount deducted and then the sales tax calculated? Is this different than customer cash?

cartalk · October 2004

The actual application of the assessment of sales tax varies by each taxing jurisdiction.

However, typically a manufacturer's rebate is not considered deductible for sales tax purposes. This is because the purchaser is not entitled to the rebate until the vehicle is sold. The purchaser is simply assigning in advance the cash rebate to the dealer as part of the purchaser's consideration in buying the vehicle. A documented manufacturer's rebate stipulates that the rebate must be assigned to the dealer by the purchaser and the dealers gross retail income will reflect the amount of the rebate, therefore, the rebate would be considered taxable for sales tax purposes.

Regarding dealer cash, a manufacturer's price reduction is considered deductible for sales tax purposes. This is because the manufacturer is actually reducing the selling price of the vehicle through dealer cash. The dealer (seller) does not receive the amount of the price reduction as consideration. A dealer's price discount is also considered deductible in determining the amount on which sales tax is charged. The selling price is reduced by the dealer's price discount or dealer cash. The dealer (seller) does not receive the amount of the price discount as consideration for the vehicle sale.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hi renees. Generally speaking, manufacturers' incentives on products increase as the model year progresses. Having said this, there is no way to know for certain what sort of incentives GM will offer on the 2005 Buick Century after its current offers expire. Its current round of incentives on this car is scheduled to run through November 1st. I personally feel as though GM will at worst continue, if not enhance its customer cash on this car when its next program is introduced, but this is only an educated guess. So, incentives-wise, you probably don't have a lot to lose by waiting. You just need to decide if there are enough '05 Centuries out there for you to get one that you like if you wait.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hey nortsr1. I am sorry to say that I do not know what the required minimum number of payments that consumers must make on their finance contracts if they go through GMAC to get the additional bonus cash that General Motors is providing. You may be able to find out the answer to this question by placing a call to GMAC's customer service center at 1-800-200-4622.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

You are absolutely right, senseless. In my opinion, the way that GM has worded its ads for this program amounts to a tame version of the old bait and switch. GM has always listed its cash and special financing offers in two columns and consumers could choose one or the other. Now the cash column says "up to" or something along those lines, but I am sure most people who look at it just assume that the listed amount is the cash alternative to the special financing rates. Advertising $5,000 cash on a vehicle to pull consumers into the showroom and then saying oh yeah you need to finance through our bank at an unusally high rate to get the full amount is somewhat deceptive.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hi boomer4593. I am sorry to say that I do not know what the required minimum number of payments that consumers must make on their finance contracts if they go through GMAC to get the additional bonus cash that General Motors is providing. You may be able to find out the answer to this question by placing a call to GMAC's customer service center at 1-800-200-4622

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hello jdukie1. While different states calculate sales tax differently than others, generally speaking dealer cash incentives are considered to be manufacturer price adjustments and are not taxable, while customer cash incentives are taxable.

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senseless · October 2004

It's amazing, Car_man. I research, read, study, discuss and they still fake me out in the end! It makes me start to appreciate Honda's stubborn no rebate policy.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Yep, Honda's got a funny policy about incentives. Instead of giving consumers thousands of dollars back on every vehicle they decided to build products that people actually want.

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kyfdx · October 2004

Exactly.. good post.

ua01682 · October 2004

Does anyone know an easy way to calculate TTL before going into the dealer? I will be buying the car in Houston.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hi ua01682. The various charges that you mentioned vary from state to state. I do not personally know the exact amount of each in your specific area, but you may be able to find them out by visiting one of the following Web sites: Texas Department of Transportation or Texas Taxes.

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linksavage2 · October 2004

Hi Car_man -

Glad to see you're still here - you've helped me greatly in the past and I'm back for more!

I'm in Dallas and want to purchase a new 2004 Eddie Bauer Expedition - I am trying to figure out how the current incentives work.

What's confusing to me is the cash back and incentive financing and which is the best deal right now for someone who wants the lowest possible monthly payment. Can you help?

Thanks!

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Thanks linksavage2

. Let's take a look at the incentives that are currently available on the truck that you are considering. I believe that right now, Ford is providing 0% financing for up to 5 years and 2.9% for 6 years OR $4,000 customer cash OR 1.9% financing for 3 years, 2.9% for 4 years, and 3.9% for 5 years plus $2,000 customer cash on the 2004 Expedition. If you finance or lease this truck through Ford Credit, there is an additional $1,000 bonus cash on it. Unknown to most consumers, Ford is also providing a dealer stairstep program on this truck this month that gives them an additional $750 on most Expeditions. This information will be useful when negotiating your deal.

If I was in the market for this truck at this time, I probably would finance it through Ford Credit at 0% for 5 years, which would also qualify me for the $1,000 Ford Credit bonus. On expensive vehicles, like the Expedition can be if one loads it up, consumers usually come out ahead by taking 0% financing instead of the cash alternative, assuming that they hold onto their vehicle until the end of their loan.

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nortsr1 · October 2004

Do you know how the above works and "what type of discount" this certificate allows a person to have???It is my understanding that GM employees are allowed to have "two" of these certificates a month up until December of this year and then can give them to relatives or friends for their use???
I saw some reference to these on another GM car club website but can not get anyone to respond to this question?? And can they be used in conjunction with the GM card points.They have been used in conjunction with the rebates and finance incentives.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

I am familiar with the "GM in the Driveway" program, nortsr1. Through this program, select General Motors employees receive vouchers that they can give to friends. These certificates allow the holder to purchase a new GM product at the supplier purchase program price, which is 4% to 4.5% over the GM employee purchase price. The exact supplier purchase prices of vehicles are listed right on their dealer invoices. Any vehicle purchased through this program would be eligible for all available customer and dealer incentives, including any GM Card points that you have earned.

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nortsr1 · October 2004

Would you happen to know what the percentage off MSRP is the GM employee price. The dealer told me that the GM employee price and the supplier price are one and the same??? He stated that the difference in invoice price and supplier price is only about $100.00??? By taking the certificate deal...do you know if it is similar to the Ford X Plan?? whereas the dealer cannot add any additional fees such as advertising fees, extra documentations fees,etc (except for TT/L)??

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Nortsr1, the GM employee and supplier prices definitely are not the same, but I am not sure exactly how much below MSRP the employee purchase price is. If you have the actual "In the Driveway" certificate, you may be able to log into the www.gmsupplierdiscount.com web site. Doing so should give you a much better idea of the price that you would have to pay to purchase the exact vehicle that you want though this program.

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nortsr1 · October 2004

Thanks, will do.

ashacg74 · October 2004

I am a recent graduate and have already bought a Camry with the $400 rebate. I wanted to buy a Corolla for my wife, does anyone know if I am still eligible for another $400?

KCRam · October 2004

Generally speaking, yes but only if you own the car. If your wife's name will be on the paperwork as owner, then she must qualify for the rebate. Toyota Customer Service would be a good phone call to make to be sure.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

You're welcome, nortsr1.

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ryan94 · October 2004

I have been to the GMBuypower website to find out what the latest Cash Allowances are for the consumer. I am looking to purchase a 2004 Suburban. The Total Cash Allowance comes to $6,000 (for Texas). Pretty tempting.

I was wondering if anyone knows the "Top Secret" Factory-to-Dealer incentives for a 2004 Suburban 1/2 ton LT 2wd? What is GM paying Joe Blow's Auto Dealership to move the 2004 models and make room for 2005's?

nortsr1 · October 2004

Carman,
Please read my post under the Wagons forum..PontiacVibe title (last post dated today)

jensmiler · October 2004

does anyone have any idea as to whether or not GM will offer some good incentives on 2005 models in November? I am a first time buyer, and am trying to get a good deal...most of the 2004's are picked over, and I am considering a 2005....but dont know if I should wait til November or not...as you can tell, I am truly a novice! thanks for any advice.....

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hello ryan94. The only dealer incentive that is available on the 2004 Chevrolet Suburban right now is the "Instant Value Certificates" that General Motors is giving its dealers this month. Dealers are given a certain number of these $500 certificates and can apply up to three of them towards the purchase of a 2004 model. They won't have enough of these certificates to use them on every deal, but if you know about them you may be able to negotiate a better deal than you would have been if you didn't.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hey Nortsr1. If you have an incentives-related question, if would be easier if you were to cut and paste it into this forum. This will allow everyone who visits the Smart Shopper Forum to benefit from our conversation. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Greetings jensmiler. Generally speaking, vehicles incentives increase as the model year progresses. General Motors has been steadily increasing its incentives on most 2005 models. It is impossible to say at this point exactly what its incentives program will be like in November, but if I had to make an educated guess, I would say that it will be at least as aggressive as it is now, if not more so. If you are not in a hurry to get a new car or truck, I personally feel as though you don't have much to lose by waiting until next month to buy.

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hamed · October 2004

Hello, I hope someone can help me. I just bought a 2004 Intrepid and I gave a $1000 down payment. Now, the sales person calls me the next day and informs that he just found out there was rebate and that he could not change my monthly payment because he had to ajust my sales price (raising it) because he couldn't lose any more money on the car. Now another sales person told me that either he truly didn't know or that he was including the rebate already in the "deal" he was giving me and he later found out he actually had to state it in writing. Either way I believe I was lied to. Furthermore, I was told to come by the dealer because the paper work was "filled out" wrong. What should I do? And, how do rebates really work? I need assistance please.

ryan94 · October 2004

Thanks Car_man

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Let me get this straight, hamed. The salesperson who you bought your new car from called you after your purchase to tell you that there was an additional incentive on it that was not factored into its price, but you can not have it. If your car's paperwork was filled out wrong then your deal may not have been finalized. It's difficult to tell exactly what is going on here, but whatever it is would leave a bad taste in my mouth if I was in your situation. The one thing about this story that does not make any sense is that the main incentive that DaimlerChrysler is providing on this car right now is $4,000 dealer cash. Either this money was taken into account on your deal or it wasn't. It hasn't changed in a while so it is very unlikely that your salesperson would have been confused about it. If you are happy with the price of your car, go back to the dealer, but be very very careful not to let them change its price.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

You're welcome, ryan94.

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hamed · October 2004

Thanks, I'm going today to do exaclty that. As far as the paper work I had signed it but they informed us the "bank" had returned them because they were filled out wrong. Again thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

You're welcome, hamed. Be careful and good luck.

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bluesky2 · October 2004

We are planning to buy a KIA Sedona in the next few weeks. On the 2004's the September rebate was $4,500, but we missed it. The October rebate is $2500. Should I jump for the $2500 or wait for November to see if the rebates are even better? Is there any way to find out what the new rebates will be? We can buy the vehicle any time after the middle of next week.
Rebates on the 05's are currently $1500. Do you think they will go up significantly as the weeks go by?

scott31 · October 2004

Carman, I know I asked this on the other board. I need additional info. Are you aware of any cash back (either to the customer or the dealer) for a Dealer Demo Phaeton? I have hard rumblings that if a Phaeton Demo is available, then there are additional incentives available for it.

Basically I guess I need to know ALL Phaeton incentives for the DC metro area, no matter how obscure, etc.

kd270 · October 2004

iam looking to purchase an fx 35 with some options the edmunds price came out to $42750 i will be putting down(my tradein) almost $15000 and i have good credit i want to know what to expect to pay since i will be financing the rest of the cost of the car.. but i gotta get the price down besides i heard about holdbacks and want to know how they affect my purchase...please some1 tell me what i gotta do to get a good deal since i been screwed twice before when purchasing used cars. thanks

rroyce10 · October 2004

....... I wouldn't worry about the holdback, it's not a profit center of any kind .. most dealers will discuss rebates, discounts, etc etc, but holdback might get you sent home for bad behavior .......

What type of vehicle do you drive that you "know" it worth $15,0 .? - who knows, it might be worth $12,0 .......................

Terry.

ua01682 · October 2004

Edmunds explains holdback(s) very well - see http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

This site can also help determine use car values.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/index.html

Take postings with a grain of salt. Good luck.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hi bluesky2. You are talking about the $2,000 conquest cash incentive that was available on the 2004 Kia Sedona in September that is no longer available in October. It's surprising that Kia would just eliminate a $2,000 incentive on a vehicle like that, but it wasn't as though everyone qualified for $4,500 on it and now there is only $2,500 on it. The additional $2,000 conquest offer was only available to owners of competitive models, including the Chevrolet minivans, DaimlerChrysler minivans, Ford minivans, the Honda Odyssey, the Mazda MPV, the Nissan Quest, and the Toyota Sienna. If you do not currently own one of these models then you would not have qualified for the additional $2,000. Unfortunately, it is impossible to predict what a manufacturer will do with its future incentives with 100% accuracy. If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that Kia's customer cash on this van will at least remain at $2,500, if not increase slightly in November. The problem with waiting to buy one is that I am sure that the supply of leftover Sedona models is quickly running out, especially now that the 2005 version has been out there for a couple of months. The longer you wait, the more at risk you are of not being able to find a model with the exact combination of color and options that you want.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hi scott31. Many manufacturers provide dealers with additional cash incentives on demo vehicles. This additional money helps to lighten some of the financial burden that is associated with having vehicles for consumers to test drive. It is very possible that there is some sort of demo allowance on the VW Phaeton. Unfortunately, I do not know exactly what it is if there is one. I can tell you that this incentive would be on top of the $5,000 dealer cash that is already available on the 2004 Phaeton.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2004

Hello kd270. While it is good to know how about dealer holdback, most dealers will not dip into it to make deals. In fact, mentioning it during negotiations usually only serves to make them fall apart. While you should not mention holdback during negotiations, you should mention any available cash incentives that you are aware of. Infiniti is currently providing its dealers with $500 closeout certificates that they can use to help sell their remaining 2004 FX35s. Up to three of these certificates, $1,500 total, may be used per deal.

You should be able to get a good idea of what sort of price you should pay for this model by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the New Vehicle Pricing section of this site. You also should stop by the Prices Paid forum and visit the following discussion "Infiniti FX45 / FX35: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". There you will find other community members who have either recently purchased or who are in the market for this model. They should be able to give you feedback on what sort of price to expect.

Once you have an idea of what sort of price you should pay, you need to figure out what your interest rate will be. It is in your best interest to get pre-approved to finance this vehicle, either through a credit union, a local bank, or one that does business over the internet, before negotiating with dealers. Getting pre-approved serves two purposes. One, it gives you an idea of what sort of interest rate to expect. And two, it often motivates the dealer that you are working with to match or beat the rate that you already have.

When you know the price that you should pay and the interest rate that you can expect, you can plug this information into the finance calculator that is available on the following page, Edmunds.com Loan Calculator to get an idea of what your payment witll be like.

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montanafan · October 2004

I don't know about demos, but there is a story headline at Automotive News today that says there is a $10,000 dealer cash program on the Phaeton. Need a subscription to read the story, so not sure if it is everywhere or on demos or non-demos. The dealers may what to move the car. so they could be forthcoming with any and all incentives. Good luck.

Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

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