Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

prayerfor · August 2005

I'd love some feedback on this situation I ran into yesterday.

I'm sitting in the finance manager's office closing on a new 2005 Pathfinder 4x4.

Both Edmunds and NissanUSA.com indicate that on this particular vehicle, the manufacturer-to-buyer incentive in effect right now is $500 cash AND low APR financing (3% up to 36 months).

Now the folks at the dealership get "program sheets" sent to them by the regional office every month or whatever, detailing the incentive programs available through Nissan. Their sheet indicates it's $500 cash OR low APR financing!!!

The two websites are clear as day that it's AND -- the two can be combined (in fact *must* be combined, according to Edmunds).

The dealer program sheet unambiguously states OR.

The deal hangs in the balance here. We scratched and clawed over the last few hundred already, so I'm not inclined to take it in the shorts for an extra $500 on this one.

The finance guy said he'd get things sorted out today with the regional and/or NMAC HQ folks, but still no word.

Advice please!!!

marywilson · August 2005

Hi Car_man:

Can you tell me what does GM's conquest incentive is all about?
Where can I read up on it?

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi hunt4car. Edmunds.com has a handy financial calculator on this site for just this sort of question. Click on the following link to check it out:m Decision Calculator: Low APR vs. Cash Back. You never mentioned how long the 1.9% rate was available for, but I assume that it is 36 months. If you don't sell your Camry before the end of the three year loan, going with the 1.9% rate will save you more money than going with the $700 customer cash and financing at 5%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hello prayerfor. The $500 customer cash that Nissan is currently providing on 2005 Pathfinder 4WD models is definitely compatible with the 3.0% special financing rate. Either your dealer is mistaken or they are trying to pocket the $500.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi marywilson. By definition a conquest incentive is a cash incentive being offered on a particular vehicle by a manufacturer to the owners of competitive products, either anyone who owns another brand's product or to the owners of specific products on a designated list of vehicles. The only model that I believe General Motors currently has conquest cash available on is the 2005 Pontiac Vibe.

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frankyg · August 2005

With the gas prices skyrocketing, will the Big Three increase the incentives on the '05 models? I'm in the market for a 2005 Durango SLT and the current cash incentive is $3500 and it expires 9/6/05. Should I wait it out till after the 6th and see if the rebate goes up?
Are their currently any manufacturer to DEALER incentives on the 05 Durango's?

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi frankyg. The traditional Big 3 automakers have already increased their incentives on 2005 models quite a bit by running the Employee Purchase programs that they've got going on right now. It is difficult to say if DaimlerChrysler will increase the customer cash incentive that it is currently providing on the 2005 Durango for the month of September. I personally don't think that you have anything to lose by waiting to see if it does increase. If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that it will at least stay the same, if not increase next month. The main thing that you risk by waiting is not being able to find a Durango with the exact combination of options and color that you want. In fact, DaimlerChrysler has already increased its incentives on this truck recently. About two weeks it added a $1,000 bonus for consumers who finance or lease an '05 Durango through Chrysler Financial. It is not currently offering any dealer incentives on this model.

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nortsr1 · August 2005

program runs out (supposedly Sept. 30th), do you believe that any of the 2005's that are left will somehow get incentives "added" to help the GM dealers sell same??? (for example, right now the 2005 Pont. Vibe has a 1000.00 rebate in addition to the Employee discount price) (I am not including the Conquest $1000.00 incentive, as I know you need to show ownership to a non-GM vehicle).Yet it might be possible that they increase this rebate to $2000.00????
I believe I had read somewhere in one of these forums that at some point, GM pays the dealership $4000.00 for any unsold (in this case it would be the 2005's) vehicles left on their lots. I don't know when that happens???
Any answers for all of the above??? (I know the 2006 Vibes are already on the dealer lots and listed on their websites.)

frankyg · August 2005

Thanks very much Car_man, you have been a big help.

I'm in negotiations w/2 dealers on an '05 SLT "G" pkg. right now.

qbrozen · September 2005

hmmmm... strange, but edmunds lists no incentives for '05 S40s and V50s ... yet, i can go to carsdirect and their price for a V50 is WAY below invoice. So can you tell me what incentives there are for these cars? Unfortunately, carsdirect doesn't list the '05 S40 at all.... so I'm stuck with no information. Can you help me out?

thanks.

frankyg · September 2005

Looks like you were right. Rebate on the '05 Durango has stayed at $3,500 and has been extended to October 3rd.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

That is a very good question, nortsr1. I suspect that most of GM's desirable 2005 products will be pretty well sold out by the end of September. It is difficult to say at this time whether it will extend its employee pricing offer, offer enhanced cash incentives on leftover models, or both. Generally speaking, vehicles incentives increase as the model year progresses. If you are a gambling man and don't mind taking the risk that you will not be able to find the exact Vibe that you want in October and that GM's future incentives will be more agressive to help unload any remaining leftover models (I suspect that there is a good chance that they will be) then you may want to wait. I've never heard that GM dealers are going to be paid $4,000 for any leftover 2005 models that they have remaining in inventory.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

You're very welcome frankyg. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hey qbrozen. I'm not sure why this isn't listed in the incentives section of this site, but Volvo is currently providing $2,500 dealer cash on 2005 S40 2.4i and $2,750 dealer cash on 2005 T5 and AWD models. It has $2,750 dealer cash on all 2005 V50 models in September.

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rushme · September 2005

The Toyota clearance event ends today. Do you think that the special financing (3.9% for 60 mo) will be extended into Sept.? Will I be able to get a new 2005 Highlander for less later in the month?

Thanks!

qbrozen · September 2005

Thanks.

now i went back to price it out and edmunds is showing the $2500 dealer cash, as well as an additional $500 to the customer for using volvo finance. So that's $3K total on the S40i.

Unfortunately, that's still about $20K for a stripped base version, which I don't think is worth it. Oh well.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi rushme. I don't know the details of Toyota's new September incentives program yet, but I suspect that its offers on the 2005 Highlander this month will be at least as attractive as they were in August. If you post a quick reminder in this discussion for me in a few days, along with the state that you plan on purchasing your Highlander in (Toyota's incentives vary by region), I will be happy to tell you what its new incentives are.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

No problem qbrozen. I personally agree with you, the S40 is a little too expensive for what you get.

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burrsr · September 2005

Hello Car_man. I am hoping you have APR information on BMW CPOs. I am looking specifically at a 2004 X5 over 48 mos. The dealer I have been working with indicated 6.9%, but many banks can beat that. I was under the impression that BMW FS offered much more attractive interest rates on their CPOs, more in the range of 2.9-3.9%. Any help is appreciated!

frankyg · September 2005

I've had zero response at the Prices Paid, Buying experience forum and was wondering if someone could offer advice on this deal? '05 Durango SLT "G" pkg., heated front seats, Family Value group, towing pkg. MSRP $38,795. They are offering me $14,800 for my trade, a 00 Dakota Quad cab, leaving $23,995 + 9.5% tax & tags for a total of $26,342, less the $3500 rebate for a price of $22,842.03 out the door. (Employee pricing on this vehicle is $30,842)
They took the Employee Pricing off the table when I offered my trade and are working off of the sticker price, $38,795, making It look like they are giving me more for my trade. Is this common practice by Dodge/Daimler Chrysler? Are they still making out from the manufacturer in the Employee Pricing by collecting that rebate and not offering it to me?

By the way, Employee pricing on this vehicle is $30,842

dino001 · September 2005

My understanding is that participation in employee pricing is voluntary. However, if participated, they would not be able to hide this from you as there is some paperwork to sign (with employee price disclosure). What they might try is to get you commited to the number and then give you paperwork which reflect the number, but components are such that they may collect the fee anyway. Looking closer at your numbers things simply do not add up: $30.8-$14.8 = $16. Even assuming tax on higher amount (as in some states cash rebates are like manufacturer coupons - taken off after tax), it should come to something like $18K, not $26. It is simple: either you are not geting $14.8 for your trade, or your are paying full MSRP. If we start with employee pricing your trade looks like you are getting in proximity of $7-8K for the truck. Now, I do not know how much your Dakota is worth - look up for trade-in values to get a ballpark. $14.8 seems high, but certainly $7-8 is low. Three words - RUN, RUN, RUN! They not being straight with you and chances are it will only get worse when you commit. No other Dodge dealers in the neighborhood?

The trade thing is exaxtly why most advice places say you should not do. Do not let them talk trade before you get hard on paper commitment to the purchase price. Same with finanancing, btw.

frankyg · September 2005

Yes, they are subtracting my trade, $14,800 from the FULL MSRP of $38,795 leaving $23,995 which is the taxable amount at 9.5%, leaving a total of $26,274 + $67.50, minus the $3,500 cash rebate for an out the door price of $22,842.

By the way, current KBB trade in value on my Dakota is $9,800. Using that figure w/the Employee pricing it comes out like this in New York state:

$34,342 minus $9,800 trade in for a taxable amount of $25,542 + tags for a total of $26,941 minus the cash back rebate of $3,500 which equals $23,441. That is $599 more than the price above of $22,842. What am I missing here???
(The rebate comes off after taxes, thats why I added 3,500 back on to the Employee price of $30,842)

dino001 · September 2005

Well, than it means they may be offering you a bit more for your trade than KBB. KBB or any other books is only a guide, not a bible. So it may be an OK deal, as for what it is. I just don't like their "cheating" the numbers. My guess is you gave them strong and lasting impression of being very attached to your Dakota, so they decided to "smoothen" the transaction by making you believe the're making you a big favor by "giving" almost 15 grand for the truck and worked their bottom line backwards. There are so many other components they can still shave you (financing, junk fees, junk options, extended warranty and so on) so the info is not even close to say finally if your deal is bad, OK, good, or great.

qbrozen · September 2005

if you give all the details on your trade (SLT? 4x4? 4.7liter? miles?), i might be able to help you better.

In any case, I'd tell them to please use the real numbers based on employee pricing. Its just too easy for them to scam you by generating this imaginary garbage.

frankyg · September 2005

Location: Upstate NY
Year/Make/Model: 2000 Dodge Dakota Quad cab Sport
Body Style: 4Dr
Engine: 4.7 liter 8cyl
Driveline: 4WD
Mileage: Only 42,800
Color: Red
Options: Alloy Wheels 15" sliding rear window
Condition:
Exterior: Very Good Condition - 2 dings, slight vertical indentation in front bumper from a light pole; paint excellent -red- control arms & ball joints replaced under warranty/recall 12/04, brakes good. serviced at dealer every 3,000 mi
Interior: Great Condition - Non-smoker, no fading dark gray cloth
Tires - new BF Goodrich 5k miles ago

qbrozen · September 2005

well, seeing as how you are in NY, I think you will be subjected to Galves pricing, like I am here in NJ.

I just plugged in the info (power windows, right?) and it came back with $10,675.

With the damage, I could see them MAYBE going as low as $10k. I'm cautious about this number, though, since you says KBB hit it lower than that. That's almost unheard of. KBB is usually too high.

You should post this info on the Real-World Trade-in Values board in the smart shopper forum and let Terry give you an accurate auction value for the truck.

frankyg · September 2005

I appreciate all of your help,

Thanks

P.S. I put all the info in Consumer Reports New car price service and they came out with a wholesale price of $30,838 for the 05 Durango SLT that I am looking at. (All options and rebate included)

birdbird · September 2005

Hey Car_Man,

I see there is nothing under lease for the Acura RL at Edmunds.com under incentives, rebates, etc. page. I think it does say 2,500.00 marketing support from manufacturer to dealer or something like that.

I was thinking about approaching dealers for a lease in the next month. Have you heard anything frm Acura on numbers of 2005 Acura RLs still out there and whether favorable leasing terms might be offered soon? Acura hasn't changed their "lease offer" at their web page yet although it has gone past the expiration date?

Thanks in advance for any insight into this.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi burrsr. BMW does offer special financing rates on select CPO models from time to time. Unfortunately, I only keep tabs on new vehicle incentives and cannot provide you with any information on BMW's CPO offers. Sorry that I could not be of more help.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hello frankyg. If you are getting DaimlerChrysler's employee pricing on the 2005 Dodge Durango that you are interested in, and you should be, then you are getting a good deal. Dealers who elect to participate in DaimlerChrysler's employee purchase program must sell all vehicles that are eligible for employee pricing at that price. They cannot choose to sell vehicles for a higher price than the one that the program offers, so I don't see how the dealer that you are working with could just take the offer off of the table. Perhaps you should consider shopping around to find a better dealer to work with.

As far as your trade goes, you can find out approximately what your vehicle is worth by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the Used Vehicle Pricing section of this site. You also may want to stop by the following discussion: "Real-World Trade-In Values". One of our most knowledgeable community members, Terry, frequents that discussion and he is often kind enough to give community members who give him an accurate description of their vehicles with his opinion on their value.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hey birdbird. The 2005 Acura RL never had special lease money factors available on it. The advertised lease payment that you have seen for the RL over the past several months used American Honda Finance Corp.'s standard lease program and a special $2,500 dealer cash incentive to arrive at the $599 payment that was being touted. Since Acura is still providing $2,500 dealer cash on the '05 RL, though it is now available on all deals not just AHFC leases, I suspect that one would still be able to lease one at a payment that is very similar to the one that Acura was advertising on it last month.

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frankyg · September 2005

Funny thing is I ran the Employee Pricing figures and used a Trade in value of 10,675 that someone here was kind enough to look up for me, and found that their figures working off of the MSRP were actually very close. $350 difference

dino001 · September 2005

Just don't let yourself be pushed into that MSRP corner - as others said, it doesn't look good. I join the others - find another dealer, I can smell this one in Tampa.

moparbad · September 2005

Are there any incentives for the Jeep Liberty CRD 05 in the FL area or IL IN WI area? Is the Chrysler Financial $1000 bonus cash still available?

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi moparbad. The only cash incentive that DaimlerChrysler is providing on 2005 Jeep Liberty Diesel models right now is the $1,000 Chrysler Financial bonus cash that you mentioned. Of course, consumers are able to purchase this truck through the employee purchase program. This current round of incentives is scheduled to run through October 3rd.

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frankyg · September 2005

Took your advice and Car_Man's and found another dealer 70 miles away who gave me Employee Pricing and $10,383 for my trade.

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

I'm glad to hear that everything worked out, frankyg. Enjoy your new ride and thanks for taking the time to stop back and let us all know how everything turned out.

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mars3 · September 2005

Salesmen see a woman coming and look out!! I am getting different prices for '06 Camry LE, auto., 4 cyl, very basic, but want side air bags. (I'm in TX).
One price...$19,000 + TTL and other is anywhere from $ 21,525- 22,100.
One says TTL costs about $1500..can that be right? I just want a nice Camry for a good price and don't know what to offer. I have done research on price, but can't really find anything definitive.
I have also looked at what Edmunds says is "What others are paying" for an '06, LE. 6 cyl., auto. w/HI convenience Plus Pkg. and True Market Value is $22,247. That sounds better and you get bells and whistles. Does that also include TTL..and if not, what does that usually cost? Will a dealer readily accept an offer of $22,247?

Thank for any help

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Welcome mars3. This is probably not the best place for this post since you are not asking any specific questions about incentives. You should be able to get a good idea of how much to pay for the car that you want by visiting the following discussion: KarenS, "Toyota Camry: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #, 7 Dec 2001 11:52 am.

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nortsr1 · September 2005

Car man...do you know if the Conquest $1000.00 incentive can be used on the 2006 Vibe. I posted this at the "prices paid" topic but figured it might be better to ask you!

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hey nortsr1. To the best of my knowledge, the $1,000 conquest cash offer that GM is providing on the Pontiac Vibe is only available on the 2005 model.

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delrick · September 2005

I was very disappointed to see that your lease discussion has been terminated.

It was easily the most informative site on Edmunds, for those of us who lease.

Your knowledge and style were greatly appreciated over the years.

Don't know about other folks, but I will not be spending anywhere near the time on Edmunds as I did when you were fielding lease questions.

An individual product approach is not as useful to me as the previous approach was.

I believe the technical term for the change would be a brain fart at Edmunds.

nortsr1 · September 2005

O.K. Car Man,
I wasn't really sure; however, I really believe somewhere down the line (next few months or so) that GM will have to come up with some incentives as the Employee pricing expires next week. They have reduced their prices on most of the 2006 models; however, not by much (not enough I believe for the average consumer, now that they have opened a can of worms.( the consumer is now pretty well used to these reduced Employee programs)! Time will tell.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi delrick. The lease discussion hasn't exactly been terminated. Edmunds.com management decided that it was best to split up the large lease questions discussion into smaller discussions about specific models. You can find all of the new lease discussions over on the Edmunds.com Prices Paid & Buying Experiences Forum. I am sorry that you do not like the change. Please feel free to express your opinion by using the form on the following page: Edmunds.com Help - Contact Us.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Nortsr1, it will be interesting to see what GM does with its incentives when the Employee Purchase program goes away. By the end of the month GM hopes to have sold down its remaining 2005 models that it does not need employee pricing any more. On its new 2006 models it is going with a "value pricing" approach, cutting prices rather than providing huge incentives. In theory, value pricing is great. The lack of incentives will help make vehicles' residual values stronger and will boost the brand image. The problem is though that the domestic automakers have gotten consumers hooked on incentives and they are going to have a tough time getting to buy vehicles without them. I suspect that by November or so GM will have to introduce an aggressive incentive program on 2006 models, but only will will tell what will happen for certain.

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steine13 · September 2005

I'm with Delrick in that I don't like the split-up discussion.
I usually don't know what I want to buy until I know where the deals are. The lease discussion was a GREAT way to see what was happening in the market.

I don't think I'm the only one who operates this way...

-Mathias

Kirstie_H · September 2005

I don't want to derail the discussion, but I'll give a brief "why" explanation -
Our data indicates that a HUGE majority of members look at the Forums using the make/model view rather than by board or by topic. Unfortunately, having one huge leasing discussion was leaving a lot of our newer members' needs unsatisfied as they never located the leasing discussion when looking for info on the make/model they wanted to lease.

We knew some members wouldn't like it as much, but overall it is helping get questions answered and keeping the info organized. Hopefully we will open a new, general leasing discussion soon that will cover less make/model-specific questions.

Again, please do feel free to express your opinion to management using the link that car_man provided above.

nortsr1 · September 2005

I agree with your theory and I truly believe that once the 2006 models are in full capacity production and the dealers initial 2006 orders to the mfg. are filled, their lots will be filled due to slow sales and once again, GM will have to come up with some sort of incentive to keep sales moving.( I assume that you meant Nov. 2006?) I guess the real problem for GM is the fact that they either have to keep the assembly lines working (which leads to "overproduction) or still pay the workers almost full salary for staying home. I follow the Edmunds "Can GM Survive" topic on a daily basis (quite interesting reading).
Thanks for your insight into this matter.

ddelise · September 2005

Why not have a link to the main leasing forum when someone does a search by make/model? In other words, keep a place holder for 'Chevy Aveo - Leasing Questions', but point it to the main Lease Forum.

Here is a copy of the note I sent to the Edmunds management:

Hello -

Just a quick note to express my dissatisfaction with the recent decision to terminate the Lease Questions forum and replace it with individual model discussions.

While I only lease every 3 years or so, I read that 1 forum almost daily to see what is going on in the market, as well as for the entertainment provided by the posts. Additionally, when it was time for me to lease, it was interesting seeing what deals were available on models I might not have even considered. For example, I would never have leased my Volvo had I not seen that the current money factor at the time was less than 1%. This made the lease only marginally more expensive, and a better value, than the Honda I was looking at.

Switching to multiple forums will prevent me from learning about all the deals out there. It is simply too cumbersome to bookmark 50+ lease forums and read through all of them.

Sincerely,

Damon

Kirstie_H · September 2005

I don't want to derail this topic any further, so I'll just state that you went through the correct avenue to talk to management about Forums decisions, and I hope you receive a response.

Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

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