But, Car-Man, doesn't the dealer's net holdback amount get reduced the longer the car is on the lot (I've heard that after 90 days, the holdback is lost). So if I order it, wouldn't the dealer get the full holdback amount? This is why I would think there's a little more room for negotiation when ordering the car versus buying it off the lot. And if that is the case, would it be inappropriate to get the dealer to order the car even if it's on the lot? Thanks!
The dealer gets the holdback (which basically pays interest for the first 90 days) no matter how long the car is on the lot. What happens is that after 90 days, the cost of interest is more than the holdback. Similar to what you stated, but different if you get my meaning.
As for ordering a car, it is not inappropriate. If a dealer does not have what you want, ask them to order one with your specified options. If they refuse, go to another dealer. The reason they might refuse is because by ordering a vehicle, they are using up one of their allocation units for that particular model and also as Car_man stated they want to turnover the inventory on the lot first. In order to protect themselves though (so you don't leave them with a car with a strange assortment of options or colors), the dealer will ask you for a deposit that is generally not refundable if they deliver the car to your specs and you refuse it.
Hey 'The Merg', I understand what you are saying. So don't you think that with zero interest cost to dealer for a car he's ordering on behalf of customer, he might be willing to let loose a portion of the holdback to the customer? Again, if he has a car exactly like the one I'm ordering, I'm sure he'll try to turn it over. But I would think I could still order it, instead, and perhaps dip into the holdback. This is why I would consider buying a '00 instead of a '99 (in the case of the Windstar, they are virtually the same). '99 would seem to cost less on the surface, but if I order a '00 and can get some of the holdback, the '00 may still be cheaper.
Dealers are very wary about dipping into their holdback to reduce the cost of a vehicle. A lot of dealerships don't really consider it profit as they use to for overhead, etc. I would use it to take into account how much profit you want to give to a dealer (basically subtract the holdback before multiplying by the % profit you want to include) and then add that profit number to the price of the vehicle with the holdback. For example:
A vehicle for $15,000 invoice/$20,000 MSRP with a 3% holdback that I want to give an offer for 5% over cost. I would take 3% of the MSRP ($600) and subtract that from the invoice of $15,000 to get $14,400. I would then calculate 5% profit on the $14,400 for a profit of $720. I would then add that $720 to the $15,000 for an offer of $15,720.
That way you are taking into account that the dealer is getting the holdback, but you don't have to mention it to them (some don't like you to mention it). The same works when you make an offer at invoice (you are automatically taken into account that the dealer is making money on the dealer holdback).
That's interesting how they are so sensitive to the holdback. A dealer offered me a price of 2% over invoice for a car on his lot without an option I was looking for but, said if he ordered the the exact car I wanted he would give it to me for 3% over invoice. I guess his reasoning was it meant more work for him, for which I had to pay for. It doesn't seem like he was taking the holdback into consideration. Does he know about it?
Car_man, it seems the inventory of '99 burbs here in Houston is quite high, with some dealers holding over 200 of them. Do you think there's a chance for a regional dealer rebate plan as we get closer toward the end of the year. I just don't see how they can move all of them without more incentive.
The Suburban is one vehicle that usually does not have very high levels of incentives on it. However, it is to your advantage that a completely redesigned version of this truck is due to arrive in showrooms shortly. Still, I doubt that there will be a high level of consumer or dealer cash on this truck in the future. Perhaps $500 or $1,000 somewhere down the road. Remember though, that it is impossible to preduct what future incentives manufacturers will come out with with 100% accuracy.
Thanks for providing this service. On the MPV 2000 site, it was mentioned we could check out incentives within Edmunds - and that there was a $500 incentive that might be expiring on November 1st. Is there a site to search, or do I just ask here? Thanks! M
There is an entire section of the Edmunds.com web site that is dedicated to listing the Consumer Cash, Dealer Cash, and special financing incentives that are currently available on vehicles. Please click here to go there: Edmunds.com Incentives Page. If you have any specific questions about the information that is listed on that page, or for some reason can't find the model that you are interested in, please feel free to ask me a question here in the Smart Shoppers Conference. I am always glad to help.
Car_Man - Thanks for your quick response. I found the site and see that the incentive on MPV 2000 is scheduled till today. I'll check back & work with the dealer to see if it will be extended, Thanks, M
Bslo33, I believe that the new Ford incentives should be available here at Edmunds.com at some point tomorrow. If you have a specific question about what incentives are available on a particular model at this point I would be glad to help you out.
From what I hear, Subaru's October incentives program was continued unchanged through the end of November. Again, if you have a specific question about a particular model I would be glad to help you out.
I guess a better Question to ask First would be, IS there a way to Use the Dealers Holdback in Negotiating a fair Price for the vehicle when special ordering
No, there is no way to use the dealer holdback when negotiating a price for a special ordered vehicle.
The dealer is going to charge whatever he wants, and there is no way you can get him to change his mind. There is no point trying to negotiate with the dealer.
The trick is to determine the lowest price the dealer will accept. The only way to do that is to offer a price, and see if it is accepted or turned down. The only way to know your offer has been turned down is to leave and see if the dealer changes his mind. So you only get one concrete offer per dealer.
Bob, the 2000 model year Ford F-150 currently has 3.9% to 5.9% financing. In addition to this financing there is $450 Dealer Cash available on all light duty Ford F-Series trucks. These incentives are good through January 16, 2000. Hard to believe that we are so close to Y2K, isn't it?
Lightcycle, wow there certainly are a lot of questions about Ford incentives today. With all of these people getting Fords, perhaps I should go buy some Ford Motor Company stock . The only incentive that I am aware of on the 2000 model Ford Expedition at this point is special 3.9% to 5.9% financing, that's also good through 1/16.
Gpumpkin, I believe that in your area the 2000 model Ford Windstar has between $500 and $1,500 Consumer Cash depending upon the trim level. In lieu of this cash you may choose special financing of 0.9% to 4.9%. Ford also has supported leases on this van.
Interesting. I don't know why the information isn't up there yet. I think that we have the data in house. There is currently $500 Consumer Cash, 3.9% to 5.9% financing, lease support, and $500 to $1,000 Dealer Cash on the 2000 Explorer.
Looking at the information that is available on the Edmunds site, it doesn't list the consumer cash or financing for the 2000 Explorers as you have, which is the supposedly current info. Any ideas on why the difference?
Also, what are the details on the dealer cash? Is is model specific (I'm interested in 4dr XLT SOHC 2wd), or regional? Is this available on the web anywhere so I can print it and take it with me?
Mark, for whatever reason the incentives section of this web site has not been updated since 10/21/99. The information that I provided you with is the latest and greatest, so go with what I posted. There may be slight regional variations to Explorer incentives, but the info that I posted should be pretty close to Ford's basic national program. There are differences in the amount of cash given by model. At this point, 4-Dr. models receive more cash than 2-Dr. models do, which is good for your situation.
Hey Car Man - I noticed that there are no rebates being offered by Hondas or Toyotas, but some rather large rebates offered by the domestics. {E.g. $1500 on the Ford Taurus.} Is it generally true that Japanese carmakers seldom offer rebates while the domestics do? - thanks, John
2nd question) I'd very much like to buy a 2000 Toyota Corolla within the next 12 months. I'm prefectly willing to buy a 2000 model well after the 2001's are on the lots. When would you expect to see the largest rebate offered on this model?
Galtsgulch2, it is difficult to generalize about incentives by the country that the manufacturer is from. However, you are absolutely correct with your observation. At this point, Chrysler, Ford and especially General Motors have some pretty large incentives out there. While Honda and Toyota on the other hand really do not have much at all out there in the way of incentives. This really has more to do with the products that these companies have than anything else. Both Honda and Toyota have a lot of hot products, or at least ones that are in demand, right now like the Odyssey, Sienna, Camry, and Accord to name a few. The reason why I say that you can't generalize by country is that Nissan is a Japanese manufacturer that has a ton of incentives out there.
Well John, it is true that there is a better chance that a model will have incentives on it the deeper you get into the next model year. However by waiting you run the risk of not being able to find one that has the exact color / option combination that you want. I don't anticipate there to be any major incentives in the future to help clear out 2000 Toyota models, with the exception of perhaps on the Tacoma. I have a feeling that the most money Toyota will provide on left-over Carollas is $500, if they give dealers anything at all. Of course, it is very difficult to predict what manufacturers will do with their incentives so far into the future. The need for incentives on a vehicle is a very dynamic thing. I doubt that Toyota themselves know for certain what they will do with their incentives at the end of the 2000 model year.
If you want the best factory incentive...in my experience...I would shop for the car that you want, wether its a Camry or Accord...the first time that its offered...take it! After the fact usually leaves "picked over" vehicles...usually with Toyota the rebates dont increase, at least they havent this year..while the cars that therebates were on...flew off the lot. Good luck!
I am negotiating the purchase of a new volvo in Massachussetts and would like to know if there are any dealer incentives out there for the 2000 V70s. Within one day I received two quotes on a 2000 XC at invoice (including $500 regional advertising fees. This makes me think that there are probably some unpublished incentives. Nothing on Edmund's incentive page for Volvos.
Smoran1, I am not aware of any purchase incentives on the 2000 Volvo V70 XC right now. There is a decent amount of lease support on this car though. The only straight dealer cash on Volvos that I have heard about is on '99s.
Car_man, I believe you said the october reb/inc will be carryover, I've heard $850 reb or inc or both(hopefully) on the 99's - region would be either new england or ny/nj.
Yes, Suraru continued its October NY/NJ incentives through the end of November without any changes. The current incentives for this company and most others are available right here at Edmunds.com. Please click here to go to the appropriate section of this site: Latest Incentives.
Akmal, the only incentive that Ford has on the 2000 model Expedition at this point is special financing as low as 3.9%. I do not believe that there is any dealer or consumer cash on this vehicle at this time.
I see that Nissan is offering a $1000 special option package rebate till the end of the year on the Altima GXE, but Edmunds is now and has been listing that package as $999, while Nissan has put it on the sticker for $1,999. Can Nissan raise the price of that package by $1000, and then offer a $1000 off ? Phil
Phil, I doubt that Nissan would raise the price of an option package by $1,000 and then offer a special rebate that reduces its price by the same amount. Option package discounts really are not rebates in the traditional sense of the word. Nissan's incentives are revised on a monthly basis, but option package discounts usually tend to hang around much longer than that.
I bought a 2000 Protege at 0.00 % with $500 cash back instead of taking the $750 at a much higher rate. The Edmund's site made it appear that no cash was available with the special financing but this was not the case.
It looks as though I will have to order a Ford Windstar 2000 to get it the way I want it to be. The dealer I spoke with today said that the current rebate program, which will expire before an ordered car could be delivereds, doesn't apply, as the date of delivery determines what rebates are in effect. Is he correct? I had hoped that by ordering the car before the program's expiration date I could get the rebate.
Vroom3, Mazda is one of the few manufacturers that does allow its customers to receive both a cash incentive and special low interest rate financing right now. However, as you have noticed if you elect to use the special financing program you can only receive part of the cash that is available. I believe that you can get $500 and the low APR on the 2000 Protege. Unfortunately, given the limitations of the database system that we use to feed out incentives page, it is very difficult to indicate that the special APR can be combined with a lower amount of cash.
Terry64 and Melech, the dealer was absolutely telling the truth. Consumers are only eligible to receive the incentives that are in effect when their vehicle is delivered. Having said that, I personally don't think that you have anything to worry about. Incentives on domestic minivans have been steadily climbing over the past several months. I don't anticipate that they will decrease by the time that your van is delivered (of course I can not guarantee this because not even the manufacturers themselves know what they will with their incentives in the future for certain). I believe that Ford recently extended the majority of its incentives through April and there is a good chance that your van will be delivered by then anyhow.
Does anyone know what the current rebate/incentive structure is for the F-150? I live in the Atlanta, GA area and have heard radio and television ads mentioning a $1,000 rebate and 3.9% financing on v-6 models. The three dealerships I have talked to seemed to have no idea what I was talking about and I called Ford's incentive program group and Ford customer service and all they knew about was a 4.9% rate. Help!
Comments
The dealer gets the holdback (which basically pays interest for the first 90 days) no matter how long the car is on the lot. What happens is that after 90 days, the cost of interest is more than the holdback. Similar to what you stated, but different if you get my meaning.
As for ordering a car, it is not inappropriate. If a dealer does not have what you want, ask them to order one with your specified options. If they refuse, go to another dealer. The reason they might refuse is because by ordering a vehicle, they are using up one of their allocation units for that particular model and also as Car_man stated they want to turnover the inventory on the lot first. In order to protect themselves though (so you don't leave them with a car with a strange assortment of options or colors), the dealer will ask you for a deposit that is generally not refundable if they deliver the car to your specs and you refuse it.
HTH,
The Merg
Thanks,
Tiptop...
Dealers are very wary about dipping into their holdback to reduce the cost of a vehicle. A lot of dealerships don't really consider it profit as they use to for overhead, etc. I would use it to take into account how much profit you want to give to a dealer (basically subtract the holdback before multiplying by the % profit you want to include) and then add that profit number to the price of the vehicle with the holdback. For example:
A vehicle for $15,000 invoice/$20,000 MSRP with a 3% holdback that I want to give an offer for 5% over cost. I would take 3% of the MSRP ($600) and subtract that from the invoice of $15,000 to get $14,400. I would then calculate 5% profit on the $14,400 for a profit of $720. I would then add that $720 to the $15,000 for an offer of $15,720.
That way you are taking into account that the dealer is getting the holdback, but you don't have to mention it to them (some don't like you to mention it). The same works when you make an offer at invoice (you are automatically taken into account that the dealer is making money on the dealer holdback).
HTH,
The Merg
in Houston is quite high, with some dealers holding over 200 of them. Do you think there's
a chance for a regional dealer rebate plan as
we get closer toward the end of the year. I just
don't see how they can move all of them without
more incentive.
Thanks!
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Thanks for your quick response. I found the site and see that the incentive on MPV 2000 is scheduled till today. I'll check back & work with the dealer to see if it will be extended, Thanks, M
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
I'm interested in 2000 F150 V6 automatic.
Bob
Last time I need to ask you this as I'm picking it up tomorrow... 2000 Ranger rebate and special financing for 60 mos., please.
- The Merg
Thanks
The dealer is going to charge whatever he wants, and there is no way you can get him to change his mind. There is no point trying to negotiate with the dealer.
The trick is to determine the lowest price the dealer will accept. The only way to do that is to offer a price, and see if it is accepted or turned down. The only way to know your offer has been turned down is to leave and see if the dealer changes his mind. So you only get one concrete offer per dealer.
Bob
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Car_man
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Car_man
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Car_man
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I still don't see the updated Ford incentive info on the Edmunds site, so I was wondering if you had the current info on 2000 XLT Explorers.
Thanks in Advance,
Mark
Interesting. I don't know why the information isn't up there yet. I think that we have the data in house. There is currently $500 Consumer Cash, 3.9% to 5.9% financing, lease support, and $500 to $1,000 Dealer Cash on the 2000 Explorer.
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Looking at the information that is available on the Edmunds site, it doesn't list the consumer cash or financing for the 2000 Explorers as you have, which is the supposedly current info. Any ideas on why the difference?
Also, what are the details on the dealer cash? Is is model specific (I'm interested in 4dr XLT SOHC 2wd), or regional? Is this available on the web anywhere so I can print it and take it with me?
Thanks much for your help.
Mark
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
2nd question) I'd very much like to buy a 2000 Toyota Corolla within the next 12 months. I'm prefectly willing to buy a 2000 model well after the 2001's are on the lots. When would you expect to see the largest rebate offered on this model?
thanks, John
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
I am negotiating the purchase of a new volvo in Massachussetts and would like to know if there are any dealer incentives out there for the 2000 V70s. Within one day I received two quotes on a 2000 XC at invoice (including $500 regional advertising fees. This makes me think that there are probably some unpublished incentives. Nothing on Edmund's incentive page for Volvos.
Thanks in advance.
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
thanks!
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host
Phil
Car_man
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Car_man
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Car_man
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Thanks