Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Questions About Test Driving
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I drive my management crazy. I sell cars using methiods that "never" work. Sell em over the phone, quote payments, appraise trades sight unseen. In short everything you are not supposed to do, I do. I am one of the top salesmen at my dealership every month. I like to think its because of my boyish good looks and relentless charm.
Nah... it's probably because you have learned how to deal with the different types of customers that want to buy a car.
Now go on out there and sell another one today to a customer with a weird way of wanting to buy a car.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Not really "weird" just different ways of buying. But as far as "weird" ways of selling go, I used to have a rubber chicken hanging on a string above my desk just out of normal lines of sight. Amazing how many people never look up. During negotiations, if I sensed that it was becoming tense or acrimonius, I would declare to the customers (only after I had test-joked them and found them to have a suitable sense of humor), that in stressful times like this I found it helped to choke my chicken. Then I would stand up and well, choke my chicken, that I had over my desk.
For three months until the GM made me take it down, I had some of the best closing experiences of my life...
This is the right place to tell em. Tell away all you want as long as they're true.
BTW, when you saw the customer needed to release some tension, did you give them a turn at the chicken?
We're waiting.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Of the dozen or so new cars I've purchased, I believe I only actually test one before purchase. Now I have a greater understanding as to exactly why sales personnel have usually treated me as an oddity.
That said, those that recognized I was a serious buyer got all of those other sales.
The check bounced. I went back to the lot with steam blowing out of my ears and they gave me cash back and an apology.
Needless to say, I haven't bought any vehicles from that chain. Then again, there is an '86 Olds Custom Cruiser for $1995 sitting on one lot and that would seat my family, but I don't feel like tying up $199 for two more days while I'm out shopping, just so I can check it out thoroughly.
Now, if you tell a salesmen you are not buying, just looking, and he still asks if you'd like a test drive... then that should be o.k.
From the dealership's standpoint, it shouldn't be a problem, either. For one, many car purchases are impulse buys; many cars that are sold are sold to customers who weren't necessarily intent on buying when they went onto the lot. For another, it can take time for some customers to develop sufficient desire to buy, so if driving the car a few times before buying is what it takes, that's how it goes.
I realize that the salespeople don't like it, but that's only because they are paid on commission, and the time spent with someone who doesn't buy could keep him or her from dealing with that customer who will buy. But that's the salesperson's issue, not mine -- I didn't invent the commission system, I just have to deal with it.
I think it is more rude for the salesmen not listen to a word we said then for us to testdrive a car with no intent of buying. We didnt crash the car, and we only put maybe 1 mile max with their test drive route.
For goodness sakes a salesman once asked us to fill up the car for him because the car was almost empty with no plans of reimberssing us.
Now, you say to the salesperson, "I want to be honest with you, I have no desire to buy that RX-8, now or 100 years in the future. But, I would like to do some joyriding and have some fun.". If the salesperson throws you the keys and just says try not to kill yourself... well, I guess that would be acceptable.
Not necessarily, you can browse for a variety of reasons. Frankly, it's presumptuous and unrealistic for any merchant to presume that everyone who walks into his store is going to spend money there.
But I'm pretty sure that dealers understand that you have to get people into the showroom to develop that intent. As a shrewd negotiator who plans ahead, you certainly plan your purchases and probably never set foot in a dealership without some intent to buy. But many customers are not like you, and dealerships will lose sales over time if they spend their time chasing people out instead of catering to them.
You can look at a television or magazine without diminishing it's value. The same can't be said when rolling up the mileage on a vehicle you have no desire to buy or burning up the dealerships gasoline.
You can wrinkle the pages and render it worthless, actually, whereas dealers will commonly sell cars with 50, 100, or even more mileage without deducting a penny from their prices.
LOL. The salesman asking you to fill up the tank took a lot of nerve.
That right there sounds really shady to me. And as you found out, it was! Seems to me that they could just hold your cash or check, put it in an envelope in their safe, and then if you decide not to buy, just give you your cash or check back. But I guess that would be too honest? :confuse:
1
Can salesmen actually do nothing for the hour long test drives people go on? Dont salesmen have customers to call, cars to sell? Why cant salesmen do something other than just sit and wait for us to return? Salesmen are wasting their own time, we are not wasting theirs. Salesmen could be more preductive and stop complaining.
2
What salesmen dont realize is that if we testdrive a car we really like we tell all our friends about it. We reccomend good sales departments. If a friend happens to be in the market for a car. Well there comes another possible sale. We are just spreading good word.
Mark your calendar because I happen to totally agree with you. If a salesperson offers a test drive to someone who has clearly stated they like to joyride for kicks, that is completly different.
Of course we don't like it. Have you ever worked on straight commission? Would you like a joyrider to waste a half hour of your time when you could have had a serious customer instead?
It's not as if I don't drive or buy cars. (And as I am buying cars in the luxury/ near-luxury category, they aren't particularly cheap.) When it's time to buy, it's nice to know something about what's out there.
The fact that you are on commission is not my problem. I don't manage your dealership -- if you don't care for the current system in which you don't get paid an hourly rate, then that's something between you and the management of your dealership to worry about.
Obviously, you find it to be lucrative overall, or else you'd be in a different line of work. I'm self-employed myself, and I have no expectation that every pitch or meeting is going to generate cash for me. I have done plenty of work on spec (i.e. for free), and that's just how it goes.
Salespeople in our store do quite well, thank you. that doesn't mean we should enjoy joyriders.
That's the tradeoff for being entrepreneurial -- if you do well, you get paid more than you would otherwise. But that entrepreneurial mindset requires that you avoid the temptation to strictly price your time by the hour.
I'm doing the same thing, and you don't hear me complaining about it. If I grow tired of it, I'll toss out my shingle and get a job that pays me a wage, benefits and a bonus. Sorry, but I'm in the same boat you're in, so you don't have my sympathy.
Someone asked a question and I answered!
I don't need or want anyone's sympathy!
BTW, your posts sure have a familiar ring to them....
Sure, that's what I did, too. Someone posed a question, I offered my opinion.
The thing is, if your dealership wanted to, they could let customers take the cars out for a test drive unaccompanied. (Some years ago, this was actually not uncommon, so it's not my idea.) That would allow you to let the customer do his/her thing, while you do yours.
It's fair to say that you like to go on the test drives because you see them as sales opportunities. That's fine, I get that, but I'm advising that you just accept that not every test drive is going to turn into a sale. You can complain about it -- I don't particularly like working for free, either -- but it's par for the course when you're independent.
Socal...Southern California?
pch101 ..Pacific Coast Highway, also known as Hwy 101 located in Southern California?
No salesperson really likes to go on test drives but they are part of the job. Letting people go by themselves is a very bad idea for a number of reasons.
Look at it this way. You choose to be a waitperson in a restaurant. How do you like it when people don't leave a tip? Yes, you knew that would happen when you chose that profession. That doesn't mean you have to like it!
If it's that bad, then why not have the dealership hire some kid at minimum wage to accompany people while they go driving? You might get people such as Bobst to be less reluctant to go to the dealership...
The test drive is the salesperson's chance to gather intel on his customer, which is why they want to go with the customer. That's fine, and I have no problem with that. But let's not pretend that you don't like to do it, when it is considered to be an integral part of the sales process.
A lot of those people do buy or are actually seriously thinking about buying.
That statement is just a defense mechanism that people have because they are afraid of the big bad salesperson.
Also if you are a fairly young kid coming in to testdrive an expensive and/or fast car there is no way a salespoerson is not going to ride with you.
Some dealerships have a policy that a salesperson must always go out on test drivers.
Got it marked.
I don't think one can compare wrinkling a few pages of a $3 magazine to putting on "hard" miles joyriding in a dealerships 30k car when browsing for potential purchases. But, this isn't about browsing or shopping for a car. It's about going out and joyriding/"having fun" in a dealerships vehicle with absolutely no intent to buy. It's a moral and ethical question each person has to ask themselves. Is this the way I would want to be treated?
This happens all the time in every business on the planet. It's how people look at merchandise, and decide whether they'll eventually enter the market. In this respect, I don't see why a car is different from a computer, home theater, piano or any other consumer product.
But that should obvious.
Sure, try out the product if you have an interest to buy sometime before death. But, people aren't going out "joyriding" in dealerships vehicles to see if "they'll eventually enter the market". They are doing it because "it's fun" and they can get away with it.
Your average electronics shop has to sell computers and TV's that have been out on the display floor as discounted "demos", while cars that have been test driven by several people get sold for as much as the dealer can get.
In that context, the test drive doesn't do much of anything to the car. Adding a few miles to it creates no discount at all. You guys have basically said this yourself on the Sales on the Frontlines forum!
The thing that you decry is a small byproduct of a way of doing business that, overall, works very well for the dealer -- that's why they do it this way. The salespeople hate it, because it's their time that gets lost, but the dealership benefits from the process.
A typical test drive adds perhaps 5 miles or so to a car. This is no big deal to a dealership. The main loser in that equation is the salesperson, who gives up 20-30 minutes of his time trying to build rapport, etc. with someone who wasn't going to buy. But that is the nature of the sales business, and anyone who is self-employed has lost time on deals that don't happen -- that's just how life is.
If the dealership wanted to set up test drives differently so that it didn't eat up the salesperson's time, then it would do that. It doesn't because it figures that it is worth the risk. If they don't like it, they need to look at themselves, because they were the ones who decided to set it up this way.
A couple of weekends ago, my wife, sister-in-law and I went away for the weekend - SIL and I share a birthday, so we decided this year to celebrate together.
We went to a town about 200 miles from where we live. The ladies had a spa session scheduled for Saturday afternoon, and a Volvo dealer was just down the street.
You can see what's coming.
I wander in - the place was pretty dead - and started to poke around the cars that were on the lot. Sales lady comes out and asks if I'm in the market. I tell her no, relate the story of my wife and SIL being at the spa up the street, and that I'm just killing time.
She leaves, then comes back about 5-10 minutes later, stating that her boss 'told her to'. OK, so I ask her to look inside an XC90 - a car that my wife has professed liking but way, way, way out of our budget. She grabs the keys and I look around. Nice interior.
Next to the XC90 is a V50 T5 AWD, so I ask her if she would let me look in it. During this time, she's asking me qualifying questions, which I'm happy to answer. When I sit in the V50, she practically begs me to take a test drive, as the day has been so quiet for her. I initially hesitate, but finally give in.
The test drive is short (< 10 minutes, IIRC), and I find the V50 to be pretty nice - but, again, not in my budget.
Upon returning to the dealer, she starts with a harder sell on me. Now, my wife knew I was doing this, and specifically warned me that I was to pick them up in the same car that I dropped them off in. So, there is no way I'm doing anything - and, if I were to do something, I'd probably do it at one of the several Volvo dealers in the greater Denver area, where we live.
I politely decline all her attempts to "talk numbers".
Was I glad I stopped in? Sure -- like many here on Edmunds, I'm a car nut. I was happy to drive the V50, even though I initially didn't want to.
Will I buy a Volvo the next time I'm in the market? Maybe, but I'm several years away from that, and my needs may change - heck, I'll probably change my mind a couple of dozen times in that time frame.
Will I travel 200 miles to that specific dealer? Heck, no.
Nothing wrong with that!
Slow stores will do anything for a possible sale.
Yeah, I do things like that.
One time I was in a small grocery store and wanted to buy an ice cream bar. I picked one up, pulled the wrapper off, took a bite, didn't like it, put the wrapper back on, and put it back in the freezer.
I always wondered who bought that ice cream bar.
That's probably the minimal. Someone out for a joy ride is likely to put twice that, or more. I've read from many members here at Edmunds that say they like to buy vehicles with less than 10 or 15 miles. Well, it's to bad for them the vehicle they want has 25-50 miles on it from someone wanting to have a little fun... they can look somewhere else.
I also have difficulty believing that anyone coming to a car lot to do some joyriding would be an impulse buyer. I also doubt any dealership owner would say people taking his cars out for joyrides "works well" for him . If any lot owners can chime in here and tell me that "joyriders" are good for their business, then I may reconsider my position.
Seems that's the way to go -- get a most-common-denominator version of each make and let customers drive 'em to their heart's content. Then it's just a four-block, all-right-turn twirl in the ride they're considering.
Miles are definitely a personal bugaboo of mine. Anything over 50 or 60, and I'm not interested, period.
That's not going to happen very often. Dealerships often have some sort of established route or circuit that they have their salespeople use for test drives. The drives are planned and certainly short enough that the mileage is not of much concern to the dealership.
I also doubt any dealership owner would say people taking his cars out for joyrides "works well" for him .
As someone who consults for a living, I would dearly love if 100% of my efforts turned into a deal. Likewise, I'm sure that Best Buy, Bed, Bath and Beyond, Target or whatever store you can think of would love to be able to sell products without staff, floor space or demo models to 100% of the people who walk in the door.
But that ain't gonna happen, and we don't avoid going into business just because there is going to be some loss of our time and effort. If you value mileage at the rate that a source such as KBB typical does, a five-mile test drive costs the dealership perhaps $1.50 in mileage loss. And if it's a new car, it will make every effort to sell a car with 1 mile or 100 miles for as much as possible.
None of this is a big deal for the dealer. The most disappointed party is the salesman, who doesn't want to go to the back of the line after dealing with the looky-loo who doesn't want to buy. But that's the risk that he takes if he chooses to do that job, which is not much different from what every other self-employed independent contractor has to deal with.
That's interesting. I've never met one of them in New York, Virgina, Arizona, Michigan or Idaho over a lot of years. I have met an occasional salesperson who will want to come along for the ride just to get out of the showroom but where I went and how long I took to get back have always been up to me. I guess things are different in Southern California 4 whatever that's worth.
tidester, host
I can't remember a test drive in recent years when I didn't have a salesperson telling me where to turn or go. They made it pretty clear that there was some sort of route that they typically used, with some of them even claiming that the interstate was off-limits.
Well, I still think you're comparing apples to coconuts when you talk about someone coming into a Target to browse $3 magazines without buying, and someone who takes a 50k sports car out on a joyride. One is looking at a product, and the other is actually using the product and depreciating it's value. One may cost a $8 an hour sales clerk 10 cents of their time, the other may cost a salesperson thousands of dollars in lost sales.
Sure, every business expects loss of time and effort. And despite your continued posts to move this thread into a " typical costs of doing business" discussion , it's really more of an ethical question of what is right and what is wrong. You think it is right to "joyride" in someone elses vehicle without any intent to buy, wasting the dealership and salesperson time and money. I think it is wrong to do so.
If that's the measure, then Circuit City takes a bigger hit than does your average car dealer. They have to deeply discount demos, whereas cars that have been test driven several times over get marked up to full retail.
The value of a mile is about $0.30-0.50. That's just not a lot of money, and it's a totally reasonable cost of doing business. And as noted, since the dealer goes for top dollar, there's a good chance that it won't cost anything at all.
Apples to coconuts pch101...apples to coconuts!
Circuit City sets up their television/computers to be demo'ed in the store, not for customers to "joyride" i.e take them home with them for a trial period. That's why there is now a 15% restocking fee on returned electronics. People were taking home 62" plasma t.v's to watch the Super Bowl, then returning them a week later for a full refund.
Same things with dealerships, sure they want you to come in and browse/test drive their vehicles. But, I'm sure they don't want you taking advantage of "the system" by going out and joyriding without any intent to buy. It's a waste of their time and money... how much I don't know, but whatever it is, it is second to the principle.
I've noticed you've avoided not responding to my questions on ethics?