Real-World Trade-In Values

dleungnyc · May 2001

This is how I described the difference between an unibody and body on frame designs to my friends.

Unibody - Take an empty shoe box, and stick some wheels on the bottom of the shoe box. That's basically what a unibody design is in theory.

Body on Frame - Take an empty shoe box, and glue it to the top of a skate board. That's bascially a body on frame design in theory.

Anybody, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong in describing the design theory.

dleungnyc · May 2001

Bill, any opinion on the S-Type? I just saw an ad on TV for it, I think its $399 a month? Or something like that with $1500 down for 39 months. Don't have any more details, but it certainly grabbed my attention. Enough that I am thinking about it. Thanks in advance.

qbrozen · May 2001

Bill is right, call a lawyer. If anything, do you have a friend or anyone who knows what they're looking at and can take a look at the car? Personally, I wouldn't trust the shop if I didn't have some kind of good established relationship with them or something. I would think that they benefit from the work and could lie, or, in an extreme case, they don't realize that it has frame damage until they really get into fixing it (if that's the case, they are pretty inept to start with).

A picture would help. If it will cost that much, my mental picture tells me that frame damage should be obvious by a glimpse of the car.

I guess we're being a little confusing by referring to it as a "frame," as I don't think that term should even be used on unibody designed cars. Like Bill described, the main supporting structure is integrated into the floor of the car. And, yes, realistically, any substantial damage to a car like that could very well compromise safety in a future accident. Its just like anything else, if you break it and then glue it together again, it may look fine, but it is nowhere near as strong as it was when it was cast as one whole piece.

qbrozen · May 2001

I saw that ad last night. It was $499 a month. Hell, if it was $399, I'd be at the dealer now.

carleton1 · May 2001

Those little pieces of junk built by Izuzu and desecrating the Chevrolet bowtie cost about $3000 in 1980. Anyone paying $5000 for a Chevette got ripped off more than we did when we got a NEW 1971 VW Super Beetle for $2150 or our NEW 1972 Volvo 145S for $4300.

lancerfixer · May 2001

Both the Super Beetle and the Volvo, if in perfect condition, would be worth more than their original price right now, not accounting for inflation, of course. The Chevette, on the other hand...

lancerfixer · May 2001

Remember, too, that the Chevette was sold into the late 80s...a time when $5,000 for a car was still considered quite cheap.

qwalls · May 2001

I was going by memory, and it was a long time ago, but I think it was around $5k new by the time you added automatic trans, cloth seats, AC, etc.

im_brentwood · May 2001

I could see an 84-87 or so Chevette being $5K with air and Auto.,,

Makes sense.

$50 ACV. What's next?

Bill

raybear · May 2001

Donate it to the Kidney Foundation. Then try telling the IRS what you think it's worth.

Hoo-boy!

audia8q · May 2001

Looked at an oddball today. lets hear your thoughts....

85 Elcamino. 95K....ran ok, not great but ok.
maroon and silver two tone, original paint faded but still on the car. small amounts of visable rust around real wheelwells, needs 4 tires. a/c sorta cold, pw,pl. interior is a 6. We would not retail this vehicle.

here is the kicker. thought a look under truck might be a good idea. lots of rust...frame, driveshaft etc...much more than "normal"....

I made a few calls and got some similar numbers...I passed the exact amount along to the salesperson and customer. The customer compared me to jesse james and left. I made a few more calls with similar results. What do you guys think??

Rich

fladriver · May 2001

Nice offer on the Vanden Plas...thanks. I don't know how you managed to put 125k on it with all the cars that vie for your attention! I can bring this conversation back to trade-in value, I think, with a question: How is it that these used Jaguars keep their resale values?

I would think most car buyers are looking for new cars or low-mileage used cars. Of course there are some people who, if they want a Jaguar, can just buy it new. I'm wondering who's left with good money to spend on a car with 100k miles...

im_brentwood · May 2001

LOL!

$5,000... it's a Classic!

im_brentwood · May 2001

$500 tops, to the moon, to the stars, all the money.

Car is a 16-year-old, rusted-out piece of unsafe junk.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Well,

Frst I've had the thing for almost 6 years and I do an easy 30K a year. This year alone I've got to have 20K under my belt. So believe it or not, I do spread it out!

As far as really high mile cars go.. First the 95 is worth, wholesale, $8K tops. Remember it's been hit before too.

There is a market for these cars... a lot of people will buy a very high mile car for a simple reason. Here it is: (Verbatim ad seen recently in Miami)

1995 JAGUAR XJ6 Beautiful Black with Saddle lthr. Vy Cln, CD, Traction, Alloys, tint, alarm, books and records, 130Kmi looks like 30K $9995 Firm (305)-555-5555

That's $10K for a new body style Jag. Pretty fair price retail if it's clean. Or, like the 97 XJ6 I saw advertised for $18,995. It had 75K miles. Typical retail for a 40K mile one is more like $27K

So, you'll find these cars at bargain prices. Are they a good deal? Depends on your priorities. If you drive 5K miles a year a 2 year old car with 50K can be a very good deal, or, if you can't afford the usual price of admission, they can be.

As far as Jaguar resale values go, they're not there...yet. However I still see clean, good mile, 00 S-Type 3.0s selling for $34K at the auctions... That'llmake them retail at about $37K or so... Which is $1K or so back of their original invoice nearly 2 years ago. Better than a lot of the competition.

They're getting a lot better...still, the XJs are abargain.

Bill

andre1969 · May 2001

Hi Bill/Rich/Terry (did I miss anyone? ;-)

I have a friend with a 2000 Dodge Neon base (they have the nerve to call it "highline") sedan. 33,000 miles. It's red, with an auto, a/c, and that's about it. Crank windows, plastic hubcaps, etc. I think it's in pretty good shape, and he lives in Baltimore, MD.

Anyway, he's thinking about selling it, because living in the city, he decided he just doesn't need a car. Any guesses on what it's worth? I told him he'd get about $6,000 tops for it selling it to a dealer or Carmax. I think KBB lists it at $8,000, but I know what you guys think of their quotes!

Thanks for andy help, and all your help and insights in the past!!

-Andre

qwalls · May 2001

Bill & Terry - I haven't ruled anything out yet, but I just got another call from the Acura dealer.
'99 RL, black on tan, "about 30k miles". I haven't gone to look at it yet, but if it's clean, is $28k - $29k still a good target range? Asking price is $32k.

Do you think the '98 Lexus LS400 will get anywhere close to the low 30s if I wait until the next model year is available near the end of this year? They seem to be advertised at upper 30s to low 40s right now. 97s seem to be running low 30's.

If $30k or below is my target range right now, the Acura still seems to be one of the better values.

Thanks,
Q

lelandc · May 2001

A couple of weeks ago I asked for your help in determining what my current vehicle is worth: 1999 Ford Explorer Sport 2wd, about 40,000 miles, nice condition, loaded - you came back and told me around 10K.

My new question is this: I am a little over halfway through a 48 month lease with Ford Motor Credit. I called them to get my lease payout and they said it is 17K. The interesting thing is that my residual is 12K (When my lease ends in another 22 months). I really like the truck alot but am not sure if it would be possible to buy out the current lease? I am wondering if the 17K buyout is negotiable right now - or would I have to wait until the end of the lease? Ford told me that I would have to speak to the dealer who leased me the vehicle. It looks as though the vehicle is not going to be worth anything near 12K when the lease is up. Any thoughts?

Leland

carleton1 · May 2001

As I understand, leasing is primarily for the situation where the vehicle is used for business where "pre-tax" dollars pay.
Isn't it usually more beneficial for an individual to buy so he does not get locked into an undesirable vehicle for a long time?

im_brentwood · May 2001

Andre: I'm thinking closer to $7K. Still, who wants a 00 Neon with 33K on it?

Q: Shoot for $28K... $29K if perfect and you have to have it.

leland:By FAR your best bet is to ride out the lease and see if you can negotiate it out at the end. Right now $17K is more than retail on that truck. I'd say that at the end of the lease to turn it in. However, you could try negotating the buyout... then.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

That's a tough question. It depends on what your expectations and wants are out of leasing as well as the car and program.

Some cars, like SAABs are stupid to buy, Some, Like a Lexus LX470 or SC430, are stupid to lease.

It's a tough question, but the answer is really.. yes/no.

Bill

qwalls · May 2001

I haven't seen a perfect car at that dealership yet that wasn't new, so $28k will be the goal.

Q

andre1969 · May 2001

Hey gang,

I know this is late in the game, and nobody really cares about them anyway, but remember, when the Hyundai Excel first hit our shores in 1986 or so, its base MSRP was $4995. A Yugo based at something like $3990. I'm sure by that time, a BASE Chevette would've been close to $5500-6000. By the time you added automatic, air, rear window defogger, a decent radio, you were probably pushing $8,000 MSRP. I know somebody who paid about $6000 for a cheap Plymouth Horizon America...no radio, no A/C, only option was the automatic. This was in 1989. I know someone else who paid $9,000 for an '89 Escort LX, as loaded as an Escort could be. Personally, I think he got ripped!

If anybody really cares, I have an auto encyclopedia at home that would list the MSRP's of the Chevettes over the years.

-Andre

qwalls · May 2001

It looks like you have a few cars! :-) I'd be interested in hearing what the MSRP for the '79 Chevette was if you get the chance. Thanks, and no rush.

Quentin

bretfraz · May 2001

I helped a buddy buy one of those Dodge Omni America's in '86 I think. He paid right at $6k but got air and a 5-speed (or a 4-speed).

I bought an '86 Escort GT with air and a 5-speed for $9800 new. A great little car if down on HP a bit. Wanted a VW GTI which were all the rage then but I woulda had to pay $11K - what a rip, I thought then.

shehzad · May 2001

Hey Bill/Terry. Thanks for the advice on the camry. I know you're going to hit me upside the head for this, but I decided to get the car fixed. I talked to both the adjuster and the guy at the body shop, and both said that the rails were fine. They said that the mechanics of the accident were such that it went under the minivan that it hit, and thus the frame was fine, but the engine was pretty messed up. Apparently parts are expensive, and just added up--220 for each headlight, $400 for a new radiator, $1200 for something etc. Both the adjuster and bodyshop guy expressed amazement at the fact that the frame wasn't damaged, but both said that it was ok. I guess at some point, one has to just trust someone, and as I usually keep my cars until they die anyhow, I just decided that even though this one was in an accident, it was a spare car anyhow, so I'll just keep it until it completely dies. I was thinking of actually getting a 3rd XJ (used) as a spare car, but I guess I'm just pretty much stuck keeping the camry for now. Once again, thanks for the advice.

ACCENT · May 2001

Thinking about trading in my 99 Mazda 626. The car
is in excellent condition, only 25,000 miles on it. The color is freeport green with tan leather. The car has everything execpt abs. It even has the 17" chrome Millenia rims on it. Back in December the car was hit on the driver side door. But the body shop did a very good repair job. I can tell where the car as been hit, but friends and people on my job say they can't tell. What kind of trade-in value am I looking at? Also I live in Delaware...

im_brentwood · May 2001

I'll keepa me mouth shut and no say how the VW be better car lol...

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

OK...

You got lucky. Very lucky, and I also understand what they said. Makes sense to me.

Oh, if you want a 3rd Jag... find a cheap used XJS SIX CYLINDER Coupe.. like a 93 or maybe a 93-94 Sedan.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Sounds like a $10-10,500 or so car to me.

OH! Take them 17" Wheels off and put the stock ones back on, they add $0 to the trade value.

Bill

sadatx · May 2001

Bill/Terry,

Thinking about trading in my 1998 Explorer. It's an Eddie Bauer model. It has the six cylinder engine. It's fully loaded without the tow package. Also, it's wedgewood blue & tan and in mint condition. A ballpark figure would be appreciated. Thanks.

audia8q · May 2001

I had $1000 all over town from our 'regular' wholesalers, so I felt somewhat safe at $1500. A new wholesaler shows up today, bragging about how he pays the most, blah, blah....so i just point to thw wholesale area and tell him to get any keys he needs from the lot porter....low and behold he comes back and much to my excitment wants the ole ElCamino. I ask him what he wants to pay, of course i was whining about how I had to over pay for the unit to take it in, etc...haha. He opens at $2500 and I tell him $3000 might do it but i need an answer now, before any of the other wholesalers show up....he agrees. done deal. I will sleep much better tonight. I figured it would be my demo next winter for $1500, lol

rich

im_brentwood · May 2001

Sad,

2WD or 4WD? Also, how many miles??? And has it ever had any paintwork, and if so where?

This I need to know!

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Remind me to buy you a Cuban Cigar and a Glass of 18yr old Single malt when you come down to Orlando.

You deserve it on that deal.

Hell, the customer should be sending YOU to FLorida!

Bill

blackcurrant · May 2001

this ought to be interesting. I was thinking if that el camino deal happened in the SWthe guy could move it out here and turn it as a "rust free' SW car. Somebody ought to put a mirror on a stick and show that boy where the undercarriage is!

rroyce10 · May 2001

........If the vehicle is clean..looks and feels tight --- even with the damamge -- that is "pro fixed" --- ... You should be in that $10,000 zipcode .... but Bill is right --- Get those wheels off......

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2001

.......If you can get the dealer out of his "coma"..--- $28/29,000 ..would be a fair price for everyone....

If he won't move...email me --- I will get you one....

Terry.

qwalls · May 2001

Thanks for the info, and the offer. I went to look at it today. It was the best he's gotten in so far, but still not as clean as my Explorer was. There were no dings that I saw, but the paint had a few scratches and scuffs. The car was kind of dirty, so it was hard to tell exactly what condition the paint was in. Also, whoever had it wasn't good at judging distances, because the ends of both mirrors had been scraped. Am I expecting too much? I don't expect a two year old car to look new, but I expect it to be pretty close. My Explorer was almost 4.5 years old, and it had one small stone chip, and a very faint ding that you had to really look for to see.

Quentin

sadatx · May 2001

Bill,

Apologies for leaving out critical information. The truck has 32k miles and is 4WD. It has no paintwork done and is in mint condition. I wash it at least once a week and the interior is also perfect. Thanks for all your help.

SadatX

afk_x · May 2001

95 Infinity J-30 with 53K. Touring package every option but a spoiler - very clean - no paintwork - only a few small blemishes on the front bumper.

Color is pearlwhite. Non smoker car

anna12 · May 2001

I'm thinking about trading in versus selling to a friend-two have indicated interest, without my trying at all. The car is automatic, 84,000 miles, maroon and shiny still, sun roof, ac, good mechanically and a few nicks and dings, but nothing big, no accidents. Not perfect, but I think for 11 years old, it's pretty fine. This is a great service, thanks for taking the trouble. Anna

dardson1 · May 2001

how about a value on a 2001 white Toyota Sienna XLE with leather and 1 power door...no dents, or chips and 5k miles....

div2 · May 2001

My elderly mother no longer drives and someone has offered to buy her 1992 Mercury Tracer(guess you can tell I didn't inherit much of he genetic code. Luckily.). It's the base model with A/T and A/C. Light blue met./blue cloth with a few door dings. Needs nothing else but one hubcap. 22700 miles. Oil changed every year/3K miles. She's willing to sell it for auction price just to move it. I'm thinking $1000-$1300...

rroyce10 · May 2001

.......Your welcome, You are in Columbus...and only 2 hr's away --- so, if you have the need ...I will take you to the auction as an "employee" .... and you can pick out what you want.....

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2001

......If it's as clean as you say it is...(no V8 doesn't help) -- but the low miles do..At the Ford sale ...last week ..they where doing in and around that $14,500 ish+ figure......

I hope this help's....

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2001

.....It's awfully hard to shop low miles ..and great condition...

I would clean it up..spend 8 bucks, and get a hubcap....and drop it in the newspaper..and I wouldn't be surprised that you got $3000 +...

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2001

......These are popular vehicles....and well made...(why 1 door..?)..

There is a a few at the auctions right now ...especially after Easter...the 2001 XLE's, are doing in and around that ...$25,000 ish figure...

I hope this helps...

Terry.

div2 · May 2001

Thanks. I'm going to give it the once-over and see what I can do.

rroyce10 · May 2001

........A J30t ...Huh..!

Well they are certaintly doing better now...then when they were new ----

If this a clean vehicle ...needs -0- ...body is all there..and tires are new -- and shows new -- ( miles are right..good color ) this would do about $9500 ish at the block...

I hope this can help...

Terry.

afk_x · May 2001

I have a customer who is going to trade her J-30 in soon and I normally don't bother to shop trades but this one may be worth the effort.

Real-World Trade-In Values

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