Real-World Trade-In Values

im_brentwood · May 2001

Thanks Terry! Me agrees... But a 2001 Sienna is doing $25K at the block?

Wow...

Bill

dardson1 · May 2001

ty guys for the Sienna input....and didn't understand your "one door" comment.....it has one power door, passenger side, and just came that way

blackcurrant · May 2001

1998 acura GSR sedan, 14k miles, supposedly excellent in BostonMa, Green! Oh Boy! What's the money? Thanx On Ebay.....Item #586995144

rroyce10 · May 2001

.......Bill, These little buggers aren't cheap ...

I just bought one, for my Golf pro's g/friend at the auction ---- 2001 7,400 mile XLE, with all the stuff -- dual air, spoiler,slider , upgrade JBL, running boards, gold pack, leather..etc.. Sailfin blue- to match her eyes ( l....o....l...) ---- Gee whiz -- the sticker in the console ( option ) ...was over $33,500.....

The next time you get to auction...take a look --- not my cup of tea ..--- but, it was Sailfin blue -- to match her eyes ---.....l.....o.....l.......

I paid over $26,000 --- hey, not my g/friend.....

- dardson1 - ... I was only kidding --- this thing has the ..."whole coma ..se' yama -- and a bag of chip's ....that's why I said -- why .. 1 door?.....I have seen a bunch -- and the XLE's are the "fat daddy" -- if, your into vans....( personally, I like the Chryslers and Honda's more.. )

Terry.

katstos · May 2001

OK, so I go to trade in my 1997 Nissan Maxima GEL for a new 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The Nissan has all the bells and whistles and is in good to excellent condition inside and out (yea it can use a good interior detail). It does need new tires and has 144,000 miles on it.

Kelly BB lists a low/high value as $,9000 up to $14,000; Edmunds lists a FMV trade value at over $12,000. One dealer only offered $6,800 (then called back the next day to offer $7,500) and another only offered $8,800. Are both Kelly and Edmunds wrong? Are the dealers trying to rip me off? Or should I just be depressed that in less than 4 years a car with an MSRP of almost 30 grand is now worth only 6 grand?

Any suggestions, or are the dealers trying to low ball me for now?

raybear · May 2001

Both Edmunds and Kelly are notorious for inaccurate listing of trade values, TMV, etc. It's hard keeping up with everything.

Of course, the mileage would have scared me off if I were a wholesaler. Did you take mileage and condition into account?

katstos · May 2001

Yep, even over estimated the mileage a bit on the Edmunds and Kelley sites. I worked the same estimates using condition levels from fair to excellent. I think hte condition is between excellent and good. I just can't believe that a Nissan would depreciate that quickly even with that amount of mileage. With a Nissan engine anything under 150k is just breaking it in.

rroyce10 · May 2001

...........I wouldn't get too depressed, and I'm sure by the #'s you have been quoted.....that you are not being ripped off ----

You just have this minor problem --- 144,000 klicks ....Yeow -- were did you drive to work ...Costa Rica...?

But, anyway ....All ..vehicles pay the price for high miles...and having the need for new tires ---... It sounds like you have gotten your monies worth ..I would guess the vehicle is worth somewhere around a $5000 # ...

Don't get mad ....just trade that little puppy in for something you will like more....

I hope this helps...

Terry.

im_brentwood · May 2001

Gotta be worth $13K at least methinks...

14K miles??? Wow..

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Wow... $33K for one of those? Sheesh, even at $1K over sticker an Ody EX Does look like a good deal now!

That's nuts! But then I have this passionate hatred for minivans. I stick with the euro stuf

)

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Well...

Here's the problem:

One Hundred and fourty-four THOUSAND miles

That's the killer right there. There's lots of nice ones out there with 50K on them for $11-12K or so... So I think $5K may be a little light.. but $7,500 seems like a strong number to me. Edmunds is working very hard on getting very accurate, Kelly is in their own world as far as I am concerned. However, you kinda cant go by the "books" with really high mile cars. Example: Say that Galves lists a 1998 Jaguar XJR for $36K with 30K miles, and to deduct $350 for every 1K miles over. Say that car has 150,000 miles. Does it make it worth $-6,000? Nope. What's it worth? Maximum deduct of 40% per the books? Nope... I think that it's worth something like $15-18K or so. Cars with exceptionally high mileage, are, unfortunately, worth exceptionally little.

Bill

goral · May 2001

The average miles/year is ~12-15K...
At this pace, it would take you 10-12 years to reach 144K.
Let's say you bought the car for $30K out the door (probably less)...
If one dealer is offering you $8800, that means your car depreciated ~$21K...
Take that 21K and divide it by 10 (years of normal use), and you get around $2100.
That's your extrapolated cost per year (of normal use). $2100 is not bad, if you ask me

BTW, if you are worried about being taken during trade-in time, you should reconsider that Cheroke

. If you drive it the same as your Maxima, it will be worth even less (than your Max)...

Just my $0.02...

rroyce10 · May 2001

.......Yep, those little darlings are doing all the money at the auctions...high miles..low miles etc,

Soooo, since you are lookin' at a, Sunday go to meetin' miles....this sedan "can do" as much as $14,000..(auto that is )..I think Bill is right on this one...at least $13,000 --- You can't buy or shop miles.....

Terry.

im_brentwood · May 2001

I didnteven think to mention Grand Cherokee resale. You're MUCH better off finding a good deal on a 99 or 00 with low miles. Buy a 99 with 20K.. Drive it for 2 years... throw another 70K onit.. you wont get hurt nearly as badly.

Bill

qbrozen · May 2001

Even I was going to bring up what the others point out. After seeing the hit that you could take on the Maxima because you bought new and averaged, what?, ~35K miles a year, you couldn't possibly be serious about buying a new Grand Cherokee and running those kind of numbers up on it, could you? That would be even more brutal when you try to trade that in in 2005. Do what Bill suggested. If you're stuck on the G.C., then look for a recent used one.

Hey, guys, just for a reality check, how about the value of a '97 Grand Cherokee with "all the bells and whistles" with 144,000 miles?

im_brentwood · May 2001

A '97 V8 Limited 4WD with 144K?

$5-6K...

97 GCL's have a lower "book" than 97 Maxima GLEs...

Bill

isellhondas · May 2001

The "books" may say to deduct, say, 2500.00 for that 144,000 miles. So you deduct that number.

And the car is saleproof! Even priced at thousands less than one with "normal" miles, nobody will buy it.

That's the problem.

leomort · May 2001

Seen the debate about whether to fix a car or not to fix. Well, I could very well be in the same situation. Last MAy when I had a tune up done on my Toyota the mechanic did a compression test and found one of the cylinders pressures low. This May when I had the drive betls, timing belt and water pump changed, the mechanic noticed that the head gasket had a minor leak. I got an estimate for repair. $1,000 + tax. Needless to say, I won't get it fixed until it needs it. But is it worth getting fixed? To refresh everyone's memory I have a '94 Toyota Paseo w/ 160,000+ miles. I'd like to keep the car for another two years if possible. So the trade in value of this car would only be $500 at best. Now I don't mind getting it fixed but NOT if this is the tip of the "ice berg" in repairs and the car is in it's downward spiral of repair bills. What's everyone's opinion on this?

Leo

shopper101 · May 2001

1995 Luxus ES300:

Mileage: 78,000
Color: Black

Fully loaded, abs, traction control. 6CD changer, pretty much everything. with cream leather interior.

bretfraz · May 2001

My two pennies: It's almost always worth it to fix the old car. Unless the thing is a total rust bucket or been wadded up and put back together, I say fix it.

Think of it this way - you've been putting about 22K miles/year on the Paseo. The head gasket/leaking cylinder problem is serious. Like many engine problems, they only get worse with time and miles.

So, you're looking at another 44-45K miles before you're ready to ditch it. What are the chances of the head gasket blowing or some other serious engine malady? And what are the odds that it will happen - - -
1. At night in a bad neighborhood.
2. On the expressway during a heavy rainstorm at rush hour.
3. On your way to an important appointment or some critical event that requires your attendance.

To me it sounds like Murphy's Law will come into play. My vote is to get it fixed and drive on.

scottdude · May 2001

I have a '96 Honda Civic EX with 50K miles and it is in great condition. It has been in a front end car accident but I sure can't tell (but those damn CarMax people did!). Anyhow, cars like this seem to sell in the private maket for around $10K - $11K, and the Kelly and Edmunds wholesale price is about $6 - $7K.

My question: what is considered a fair dealer profit when I negotiate the trade-in value of a car? Is it $1000, $2000 under the private party value? If a fair profit is $1000 then I probably wouldn't settle for less than a $9000 offer since they can probably sell it for at least $10,000 and make their profit.

If preferred dealer profits on used cars is anything more than $1000, I guess I'd try selling it myself. But it would be nice to have this all taken care of when I buy my new car.

qwalls · May 2001

Bill & Terry:

I called today looking for left over 2001 Acura RLs. One dealer had a beige one. He did a search and only found four others in Ohio and the surrounding states, so I better move fast if I'm going to get one. The dealer was in Marion, so they probably don't sell a lot of RLs since he said they were knocking $8-9k off of MSRP with the $4000 dealer cash, which would put them right at invoice. He said they could trade for one of the other colors. Dark Green, Gold, Dark Blue, and Silver. Of the five colors, I'm leaning toward the dark blue (almost as good as black), but I'm sure you guys will say silver would be the best choice. How bad is dark blue?

Thanks,
Quentin

raybear · May 2001

It's been hit. That creams the resale value. I have to call your morals into question here. How can you talk of a fair dealer profit while trying to hide the fact the car was damaged?

blackcurrant · May 2001

Well, if it's all they claim then it's worth looking into. BTW, the GSR only comes with the 5spd, that's what i like about it. It's a sport sedan with OOOOMMMMMM VEEEEETEC OOOOOMMMMMM.

Did you know there's a website called "Temple of VTEC"? It's scary but there really are honda worshippers out there!

isellhondas · May 2001

Don't focus on the dealer's profit. This means nothing. The dealer won't pay you any more for it than they are going for at auction.

rroyce10 · May 2001

.......I'm just going to guess ... and say those were all just "freeway miles"......I love that term...l...o...l...

Let's say...the vehicle needs - 0 - tires are on the new side .... the interior looks 1999 ish...all the books and records are active...and there is only, just a couple of small dings ..where most people wouldnt look.....

I would think, you would be looking at a $7,500 zipcode....

I hope this helps..

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2001

.......Let the repairs go for right now ...--- I will almost bet .. -- that you will see another 25,000+ miles out of that little Paseo...or find a tech, that doesn't look like Jesse James....

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2001

........You are trying to trade a vehicle that has been -whacked- ... I'm not trying to sound smart here.....but, do you think the only people that will stumble over this -small misfortune - will be Carmax....

I don't know how much damage has been done ... but the dealer does have to disclose this --little bump in the night.... ..So, basically what will happen ( based on the dealership ) ..it's off to the auction...it's a $5,000/$6,000 vehicle on the ..push..

The best thing you can do is.....to get big money ...is try to sell it on your own....and get what you can ....just be upfront about it...

Terry.

im_brentwood · May 2001

Plus, you cant warranty or finance a car with miles like that.... another problem which makes it hard to sell.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

I'd say to keep an eye on it at this point... You keep saying how you may just want to pull the trigger and get anew car, right?

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Hmmm...

Depends a bit where it is... But I think that it ought to be worth closer to $9K. Not here in Florida (It's Black) But if it's clean and free of paintwork I'd hit it at $8,500-9K.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Well,

We dont look at it as a matter of profit per se when we take a car in ontrade.

My attitude is simple. A car is worth what it is worth. Nomore,no less. If carslike yours areselling for $7K at the auction, then that's what it's worth.

From the sounds of it, you're better off sellingit yourself. Since it has been in a front-end accident, its' valueis hurt quite a bit. To me, without knowinganything else about the car,My guess is about $5500 or so is what it's actual wholesale value is. Not to sound rude...but.. well, we do this for a living and can almost always spot paintwork. If a dealer can't, he deserves to get screwed by overappraising a trade IMHO. I can spot paintwork across the parking lot

This is why I always say to make sure that, when you're looking to BUY a used car, if you cant tell that a car has had paintwork, that you have someone look at it who CAN tell. Take a late-model Jaguar, Like.. say.. a 99 XK8. If that car's had a rear fender (1/4 panel) replaced, then you can expect to have its' value wacked by nearly $4,000.

As far as margins go... dealers as a rule (Luxury imports generally are the exception) do not make a profit on new cars, but used cars are profitable.

Selling new cars for $300 over invoice isnt making you anything net!It's parts, service and used cars where the money is.

Hope this helps!

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Quentin,

Hmm... that dark blue isnt bad. More of a Royal Metallic Blue, right? Silver is better, but get what you like. I personally like the Blue better on that car.

Bill

qwalls · May 2001

Yep, it's like a dark metallic.

Quentin

leomort · May 2001

I didn't want to get rid of it any earlier than late Fall 2002. I'd prefer to keep it a year later than that. So if it's a perfect world, I'd keep it until Fall 2003. That would bring the car from 160K to 225K miles. Can the car go another 65k without the head gasket being repaired? If not, then if I get fix then I would definitely expect to get at least another 50K out of the car.

Leo

shopper101 · May 2001

Bill,

Thanks for the ES300 assessment. Another unrelated question:

It seems to me that a good high milage car does not get a good trade-in vale (e.g., the 144,000 mile '97 Maxima discussed earlier). I own an '89 Accord that has about 180,000 miles and still drives ok (I am the only owner and took good care of it). From a used car buyer's viewpoint, will you recommend people buy a clean high-mile car that has reputation of being a very reliable car(e.g., Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc)? Just to take advantage of its low price.

qbrozen · May 2001

Well, if you plan on keeping it that long, I would say go for the repair. But, just because I enjoy being the voice of doom, I gotta say that it might not be the end of the repairs. It could be, but nothing is guaranteed. I had the head gasket go on my '87 4runner. I went ahead and fixed it (pretty cheap when you do it yourself) and, because you should when you have the head off, I also replaced the intake and exhaust gaskets. Well, I got about 20,000 more miles before I got a hole in the exhaust, developed a bad wheel bearing, and discovered a rotting body panel (earlier toyota trucks are notorious for this). I fixed the exhaust leak and sold it before it could suck any more of my time and money. So, my point is, just because you fix the engine, doesn't mean that the car will run forever. There are plenty of other things to go wrong. Just be prepared.

A high mileage used car? Well, see the above. Personally, I wouldn't mind buying, say, a 90K mile Honda, but that's about my limit. And that better be a damned low price. For me, when I've bought used cars, I care more about the miles than the age. I would pick an 89 with 70K miles over a 95 with 140K miles (assuming both to be top notch). That's just my take on it.

leomort · May 2001

well, I'm hoping that I can hold off as long as possible. Now that I had the water pump replaced if there is any coolant lose it should be coming from the head gasket. I've never had the car overheat or had oil/coolant mixing that I could tell. My oil has always been clean in between my 3,000 mile oil changes. I bought the car new so I know that I maintained it well.

Leo

im_brentwood · May 2001

Tough to say.,... Im not a mechanic (Though I pretend at times when working on the Vauxhall) but my guess is no.

My other guess is maybe 20K miles?? Shop the job around.... but if it gets bad you can make it worse methinks...

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

Well...

They can be a good deal.. sometimes they are a smart way to go. Example:

You drive 6K miles a year as someone posted here today.

Buy a 50K mile 99... Drive it for 3 years... 5yr old car with 68K... Not too bad.

High Mileage cars are ok to buy if they are clean and IF you flat-out steal them. Unless youget a super screamingdeal... I'd pass. They canbe very tough to resell, finance..etc...

Even if the car was used to go from the end of the driveway back to the garage...

People like low odometer numbers...

Bill

leomort · May 2001

what are some of the warning signs that the head gasket would need replacement. I'll keep an eye on any coolant lose but any other signs or tips?

by the sounds of it my head gasket would go sometime this winter or early next year. I should hit 175K this Nov, which is about an additional 15K. Consensus seems to be that the head gasket would last between 20-25K.

Leo

qbrozen · May 2001

is to get a compression tester (a pressure guage that has a spark plug sized fitting on the end) and screw it into each cylinder one by one and crank over the engine each time (make sure you disconnect the other spark plug wires as you don't want the engine to actually start up). If all the cylinders give you the same strong number, then its fine (can't be sure exactly what that number is since it varies by engine, but they would show different results if there was a problem).

nrossi · May 2001

is it worth it to buy out my lease. I have a 98 4rnner ltd. Amthracite Metallic, around 29K, clean condition, loaded, with lojack, locking rear dif, rrack, and tow. my buy out is around 22.5K.

Thanks
nick

mmackenzie1 · May 2001

93 Dodge Intrepid ES w/all the bells. 170k mi, some dings, scratches. Can I get ANYTHING for this?

raybear · May 2001

http://www.kidney.org/funds/cars.cfm

blackcurrant · May 2001

I recall from my wholesaler days when there was an older honda with mega miles it always brought more money than virtually any other make. I think there was the bragging rights of owning a himile honda. But, they always were the same money as a lower mile, newer domestic, same class and all. Yeah, they have the reputation of running along time, but they'll nickel and dime ya to death with all the little things from power window switches to exhaust...

I think a low mile, newer domestic has more going for it,albeit, without the hype.

shopper101 · May 2001

High Mileage cars are ok to buy if they are clean and IF you flat-out steal them. Unless youget a super screamingdeal... I'd pass. They canbe very tough to resell, finance..etc...

Agree, with one modification: what if I don't plan to resell and finance the car?

That is, I plan to pay cash for the car and drive it till it is too costly for me to maintain it.

im_brentwood · May 2001

Nick: That's at or just above current wholesale on it... So you could try selling it yourself and paying off the lease... you might be able tomake a few bucks on it.

mmackenzie: Hmm... $500-1,000 or so. Low Wholesale on a 94 ES is something like $1700 or so... So with that many miles...cosmetic issues...

Donating it, if you can use the deduction, may be the way to go.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2001

As long as you know that going in, they can be a heck of a buy!

I just saw a 70K mile 1998 Jaguar XJ8 selltoday for under $20,000 at the auction!

A 25K mile one is still worth closer to $30K

Bill

rroyce10 · May 2001

........I think you are a little -lofty- on the the ES300 -- I think it could swing $8000ish maybe....but, $9,000.......The clean 98's/99's are barely breakin' out of the average column....

Terry.

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