Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Mike - where do you get your information? Mars or Venus? Do you honestly believe that a black car, especially with the weaker paint formulas used today versus 20 years ago, is just as easy to maintain as a white or biege car?
Either someone's washing and waxing and doing touch-up on your cars, or you're majorly confused...
"[..] why is edmunds TMV only showing a price hit of $70-90 for a black car[..]"
Great question, but you ought to ask Edmunds that. I've long given up second-guessing Terry; he *really* knows his stuff.
There are some caveats, such as, he is strictly a dealer, and he is talking about "real money". If I were buying a 3-series in Houston on the retail end, I wouldn't expect the big hits Terry is talking about... The low "wholesale" figure comes from the fact that the car will take longer to move, not the fact that it'll sell for thousands less.
As another example, when I sold my wrecked Sienna, Terry advised me it was "worth" $3,000 to the right person. The local body shop offered $800 -- which I would have taken -- and a guy from Gd Rapids got it for $1,600 cash. It's not easy negotiating with your back to the wall, and I was (and am) very satisfied in how this turned out.
But I recently spoke with another car dealer, and when I told my Sienna story, he said exactly the same thing as Terry; these things have value either as fixer-uppers, or for their parts. The trick is finding the right buyer... so the differences can be huge, and that is as it should be... half of it is the item sold, and the other half is the right time, and the right buyer.
-Mathias
=======================
Can't speak for Edmunds .. why do they show $22 for a trade-in value for a low mileage Eldo, when dealers are only paying $21ish and $20 for the dark colors.?
Nobody is knocking dark colored vehicles ... if you like em' - buy em' .. see it's a geographic thing, not a personal thing, most folks in southern States shy away from dark vehicles like Vampires shy away from the crack of dawn .... it's kinda like any of the new colors that are out right now, whoever heard of "orange day-glo blind your eyes out" pick-me-up Dodge RT with white wheels.? well somebody must be buying them .. the problem is, when you go to trade or sell them, what are they worth.? .. that said, if you can buy a dark vehicle for the "right" price and you enjoy the color, then who cares..?
It gets back to those nice homes they're building in the Tampa area ~
what's a 4 bedroom *"1 bathroom"* worth nowadays.?
how big is that market and how fast will it sell.? ...................
Terry.
automatic
16000 mi
tan interior
cold pkg
rear side airbags
atlas gray metallic
new 4/03 doesn't look a day over 12 months old
Albany NY
What trade in can I expect?
thanks in advance. I always enjoy your posts
===========================
Well thanks, I enjoy you enjoying them ...........
Avant, eh.? .. 16k.? nice vehicles, probably worth a few bucks up there in the land of the white-outs .... this one has noooo miles, good color combo anywhere, cold pack, side balloons and yes, we have the auto thing going on .... you should know the drill by now, no uh oh it's Maaco, no curb burners, no slash and burn interior .. if it looks/feels and drives like 16k, then trade side, in and around the super tall $24's, low/mid $25's, maybe ....
Me personally.? these dudes still get some serious Jingle, Avant's are popular .. a delirious detail, a big Donald Trump Ad in the Big paper, $29,900 *asking* and $28,9/$29,5 finds a new owner .... I betcha properly done it won't last long, you guys have 2ft of snow, it's 22 degree's and other than a Subaru, a Quattro is the way to go ..........
Don't forget the update.!
Terry.
Minneapolis, MN
2000 VW Passat GLX
4 door sedan
2.8 liter V6
FWD
71,000
Auto Trans. / 6 disc CD changer
exterior paint very good. Rear fender was dented and repainted and repaired 2 years ago. Minor rock chips on hood. Interior very clean, everything works as new!
Tires 80% left.
Brakes re done less than 3K ago
All Maint. done by dealer, just had all oil seals on engine replaced (under warranty thank god!)
========================
Ha.! and all this time you thought you got missed ....
Seen any snow lately.?
Gheez .. other than a little paintwork, some tall miles, a little secret rendezvous with the me-kanic, some new round things and stoppers, it's probably not a bad ride .... these are kinda popular in your area, even with miles, so if it's clean, almost pampered, looks and drives like an 03 .. then trade side, in and around the mid/tall $7's, might "maybe" could get a dealer to stagger into the $8's, but I have a feeling the miles will hold it back ...............
Let me know what happens ..!!
Terry.
Location: [city/state or nearest metropolitan area]
Year/Make/Model:
Body Style: [2dr/4dr/wagon]
Engine: [3.5 liter, 4/6 cylinder, auto/manual]
Driveline: [FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD]
Mileage:
Color: [exterior/interior]
Major Options: [alloys, sun roof, etc.]
Condition:
Details of interior and exterior, including dings, scratches etc.
Tires - new or % worn
Brakes
Maintenance
Other: Indicate prior damage/insurance claims, repaints, etc.
=============================
Pretend your on a job interview and fill out this form ...
Terry.
I've had black cars, and yes the process of cleaning and waxing is no different than any other color, but enjoy it while it lasts. Every little drop of water, bird dropping, road grime shows up on black. And forget about any scratches, you can't hide them. When you go to sell or trade a black car, the buyer will notice every little imperfection that would be overlooked with other colors.
And when it come to dark colors in the South, dealers have a choice, and would rather have a supply of product that their buyers are more interested in, and will pay a higher price for it. If a dealer can sell a lighter color faster, and darker colors tend to sit on the lot longer, the darker car is going to have a lower value.
Someone who chooses to buy a dark color car in the South
Location: Miami, FL
2003 Ford Ranger Edge
2 Door Supercab
3.0 V6 Manual RWD
Miles: 28,000
Color: Black
Major Options: 4.10:1 Limited Slip, Sliding rear window, Power windows and mirrors, keyless entry, cruise control/tilt wheel, Edge Plus package, privacy glass, in dash 6 cd changer, Dual Exhaust, bed liner, silver 15" alum alloy rims.
Condition inside: Clean/ normal wear. nothing damaged inside.
Condition outside: Few dings on bed rail/ could easily be covered with rail caps. Tires worn 50%
Maintenance: air filter replaced with K&N, Oil changed ever 3k miles, brakes- excellent.
============================
Lets take a "look see" in the South Beach area ... well, no help from the color or the tranny on this dude .l.o.l.. miles are low, stump puller, power pack, solar glass, tunes and the small V6 .... if we haven't been to the $2.00 Swirlomatic car washes, the air is Polar, no repaints, just a nice truck .. then trade side, in and around the $9's, might get a dealer to be a brave soul and drop the low low low low low low $10's in it, maybe ... the color and the handshaker is going to kill ya ...
Let me know about the Regal and I can give you and Idea of the "difference" figure .....
Terry.
Who did the conversion, ASC, Eisenhardt, Newport ..?
Terry.
South of Tampa/St. Pete area somewhere .......
They are doing the new 4 door Deville in ragtops....
Lexus ls400 sedan 4dr.
8cyl.
rwd
235,000 miles
charcoal/tan leather int.
all options, all working , tires 25% left
no dings/scratches, all reg. service at lexus dealer, last maj.serv. & tim. belt 60,000 ago,no leaks, synth. oil every 3-5000, garaged, no rust, good paint, no accidents, driven 300 miles several times a week for 7/8 years,kbb trade in 3400,pp4800, he wants $3000, may take less...your thoughts, good deal?? any advice??
what year is it?
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Year/Make/Model: 2000 Licoln LS
Body Style: 4dr
Engine: 3.9 liter, V8, auto
Driveline: RWD
Mileage: 67,500
Color:exterior-black/interior-gray
Major Options:
Sport Pkg
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Multi Compact Disc
Premium Sound
Dual Front Air Bags
Front Side Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Leather
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Premium Wheels
Condition:
excellent condition
Tires - 30% worn
Brakes - no noticable problems
Maintenance - recent repairs(within last year) include stuck rear window and coolant leak.
Other: also have a ford extended warranty that has just over 2 yrs or 22k miles remaining.
Title: clean
Asking for a friend who needs to rid himself of a 2002 Mercedes E320 rwd sedan, Black on Tan. Good overall condition, with only one small door ding and small scratch on front fender. Very clean, hovered seats. 48,000 miles (what can I say, he's a friend of mine).
Options:
Moonroof, bose sound, 6 CD changer, rain sensing wipers, NO seat heaters.
All maintenance up to date. Tires in great shape, new about 10K miles ago.
He's trying to decide to trade or go retail road. What does the expert say?
98 VW Passat
GLS sedan
6 cyl FWD Tiptronic
94K miles
Black, sun roof, cloth and heated seats.
and
02 Toyota Highlander
Base 6 cyl AWD
33K miles
Light Blue, sun roof, power driver seat, privacy back windows option and trailer prep package.
The pricing report says about $6000 and $18500 for these two. I was wondering how much less than this I should expect when I try and get these appraised at a dealer. Thanks for your help.
2002/Kia/Sedona EX
Van
3.5 liter Automatic
FWD
Mileage: 40500
Two Tone White/Beige Exterior / Tan Interior
Options:
Leather
Sun Roof
Alloy Wheels
AM/FM/CD/Casette
Condition:
No dings or scratches
Leather good
carpet minor stains
Other:
Got caught in hailstorm in 2003 and was fully repaired and re painted.
22 months and 19.5K miles left on bumper to bumper warranty
Boss so far has passed on most KIAs including some really low auction prices on the used Sedona model.
Terry.
Lexus ls400 sedan 4dr.
8cyl.
rwd
235,000 miles
charcoal/tan leather int.
all options, all working , tires 25% left
no dings/scratches, all reg. service at lexus dealer, last maj.serv. & tim. belt 60,000 ago,no leaks, synch. oil every 3-5000, garaged, no rust, good paint, no accidents, driven 300 miles several times a week for 7/8 years,kbb trade in 3400,pp4800, he wants $3000, may take less... your thoughts, good deal?? any advice??
=============================
235,000 miles ......?
I love Lexus .. but 235k ..?!? .. whats the point ..? if it fails one time on the way to work or on the way to a 911 call, then you paid too much ....... now, if you just want the name in the driveway and you have another driver, thats fine .. $1,5ish on the dealer side and $3,0 or less is fair ...
You remind me of one of neighbors: "hey that Boat is a great buy at $9grand, NADA says it's worth $31,000" .. it has 900 hours, is NADA going to come and tow you back to the Marina.?
good buy ..? how about ~ goodbye ...
Terry
Year/Make/Model: 2000 Lincoln LS
Body Style: 4dr
Engine: 3.9 liter, V8, auto
Driveline: RWD
Mileage: 67,500
Color:exterior-black/interior-gray
Major Options:
Sport Pkg
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Multi Compact Disc
Premium Sound
Dual Front Air Bags
Front Side Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Leather
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Premium Wheels
Condition:
excellent condition
Tires - 30% worn
Brakes - no noticeable problems
Maintenance - recent repairs(within last year) include stuck rear window and coolant leak.
Other: also have a ford extended warranty that has just over 2 yrs or 22k miles remaining.
Title: clean
==================================
Got snow ...?
Unless your driving a 06 Lincoln LT, then there is no such thing as "excellent" condition ..... in the land of the Bengals, we have a 00 Lincoln LS, we got the V8, color is good for the area, (disk in the glove or the dash.?) 67k, sport pack, leather, tunes, shiny wheels and a slider ..
If ~ we don't have any paintwork, no battles at Blimpys, no $2.00 Swirlomatic car washes and the interior doesn't have that soccer Mom look .. then trade side, in and around the tall $9's, might get reeeeal lucky and see the low/mid $10's .. miles will hurt ya here ....... this might be a nice driver for Retail Rd because you have the warranty: a superb detail by the Dukes of Detail, a fancy smancy 4/5 liner Ad in the Cinci paper, all the service records super glued to the windshield: $12,900 *asking* and kick and whine at $11,9/$12,5 -- but take it ......
Don't forget to let me know what happens .!
Terry.
Year/Make/Model: 2001 BMW X5 3.0i
Body Style: SUV
Engine: 3.0 liter, 6 cylinder, manual
Driveline: AWD
Mileage: 60,000
Color: Black/Black
Major Options:
Premium Package (leather, wood, auto-dimming, homelink)
Sun-roof
Xenon headlights
Privacy Glass
Automatic Climate Control
Heated Seats
Heated Steering Wheel
Aluminum running boards
Condition:
Overall good, 2 small scratches on rear-quarter panels
Tires - new
Brakes - 10K mileage since pads done
Maintenance - BMW independent mechanic
Other: Damage to one of the running boards, bent
Hearing 20k-21k on trade-in value. Sales rep stated that manual tranny really hurts the resale. Terry, what do you think?
Thanks
"I bet you thought you would get missed, huh.?
02 Passat "W8", miles are almost kind of maybe ok, color is good for the area, all the standard stuff plus a few others ...."
Thanks for the reply. For some reason, I missed it back in December when you posted it though. I did go with the $18k from Carmax, which according to your reply was a good number to take. At least I feel more reassured now that I wasn't fleeced.
Thanks again for the service that you provide.
- Lawrence
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Year/Make/Model: 1998 Honda Accord EX
Body Style: 4dr Sedan
Engine: 4 Cylinder - Auto trans.
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 114,000
Color: Dark Green/Tan interior
Major Options: Sunroof, cruise, ABS.
Condition:
Seller claims great condition and needs nothing. Bought used at dealer in 2002, and has all service records since then. Clean Carfax. Just inspected in PA, also just spent $1700 for 110k service at Honda dealer. New timing belt, tires, cat converter, brake pads, fluids flush, etc. Never been in any accident. He's asking $6500.00
Thanks!
This is a great Forum!. Would appreciate it I could get a real trade in estimate for my car:
Details:
Make: BMW
Model: 325CI
Transmission: 5 speed manual
year: 2001
Mileage: 83,262
Body style: 2 door coupe
Color: Silver, Black leather Interior
Tires: Have about 25% life
Registration: Expires end of April
Trade in Location: Zip Code 94538 ( Fremont, CA)
Options:
Premium Package
Sport Package
Full leather seats
CD Radio
Heated Seats
Xenon Headlights
Records: All records are available as it was serviced at dealership
Car Condition: Excellent - no body damage at all, with a few stone chips in font bumper, hood and windshield, paint is perfect, interior is perfect with very, little wear signs ( no food or drinks spills either). Also nothing (radio, electronics, etc) is broken in the car.
Tires Condition: only about 25% left
Thanks so much!
Shan
===========================
Unless this dude has like 15k, driven only to the "Sunday go to meetin'" deal, has 27 coats of Mag 26, the seats have been hovered over and has been only driven between 7pm and 9:32pm, stored in a dehumidified CBS insulated block garage and the service done every 3,000 miles by a guy in a funny white suit and a CPR Shield MDI Microshield Rescue Breather .. then there's no such thing as - perfect or Excellent ....... clean maybe.
Anywhooo ..... in the land of Aaarnold, we have a 01 Bimmer 325CI .. this one has 83k, el coupe', a meat clever between the seats, good color for any area, blinders, hydes, cold/Prem/sport pack, rubber is weak, everything works and we have a few tiny little meteorite hits fore and aft and no KFC floating in the back seats, sounds nice .... trade side, in and around the super tall $15's low $16's, might get real lucky and get a dealer that thinks the Chargers are still in the play-offs and drops the mid/high $16's in it ... the miles and the handshaker aren't your friends here, but .. it's a good candidate for Retail Rd ....
Let me know how it goes ...
Terry.
Terry.
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Year/Make/Model: 1998 Honda Accord EX
Body Style: 4dr Sedan
Engine: 4 Cylinder - Auto trans.
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 114,000
Color: Dark Green/Tan interior
Major Options: Sunroof, cruise, ABS.
Condition:
Seller claims great condition and needs nothing. Bought used at dealer in 2002, and has all service records since then. Clean Carfax. Just inspected in PA, also just spent $1700 for 110k service at Honda dealer. New timing belt, tires, cat converter, brake pads, fluids flush, etc. Never been in any accident. He's asking $6500.00
Thanks!
=============================
Good description, thanks ..
Depending on the condition and how it "looks", the dealer probably hit this one in and around the super high $3's, low/mid $4's, maybe ... guy drops $1,700 and he wants his money back .l.o.l.. folks have to remember, proper service brings the vehicle back to a saleable item, not a collectors item .... fair for both - $5,0/$5,5 ......
Let me know .......
Terry.
Year/Make/Model: 2003 Volvo S60 2.4T
Body Style: 4 door
Engine: 2.4 Turbo 5 cylindaer auto (triptonic)
Driveline: RWD?
Mileage: 11500
Color: Metallic Dark Blue/Beige interior
Major Options: Moonroof, premium 17" wheel,
Premium Package-Includes leather seating surfaces, 8-way power adjustable passenger seat with adjustable lumbar support, trip computer, power glass moonroof
Sport Package-Includes sport seats with leather seating surfaces, speed-sensitive variable assist power steering, Thyest style 17" x 7.5" alloy wheels with P235/45HR17 tires and Geartronic automanual shift capability for the automatic transmission.
Convenience Package-Includes Homelink remote transmitter, auto-dimming mirror and grocery bag holder.
Condition:
great condition, no dings, small scratch on top roof, no stains in interior, tires are factory original, brakes are good, all maintenance done at volvo dealer service
Other: prior damage on rear quarter panel, looks good. service center stated excellent reapir work.
Thank you for your help
Anthony
my estimate was #24119
your estimate was #24137 for mid $10k's.
sorry, not $12k, but still a little strong, i think. i called it mid/tall $7k's, maybe $8k at the most needing new rubber all around.
I've owned 5 black cars over the years (including 2 now), They are no harder to wash or wax (admittedly it's easier when they have vinyl roofs or convertible tops), but being that just about every modern car is clear coated, you're dealing with the same "topcoat" no matter what the basecolor is. You get bug splotches or stone chips on any other car colour and you still have a damaged clearcoat to deal with. Other colors do hide dirt better, that's true, but it doesn't make a black car "harder" to maintain". I do about 1/3 of my own washing and waxing.
The older cars without the clearcoat finishes were easier to "work" with - that's for sure.
I'm not talking about just washing a car, I'm talking about OWNING a black car and dealing with having to see every little nick and scratch that wouldn't show up on a white/biege car. Things you could easily get away with at trade-in or private sale of a light colored car don't work on a black car - that nick, scratch, or door ding stands out like a sore thumb, and money starts getting deducted - that's the way it is, like it or not.
Also, with a light colored car, it isn't as much like crawling into an oven after being parked outside, it doesn't take as long to cool off, and doesn't retain heat in the long run, making your air conditioner work better on those really hot days. Born and raised in South Texas, where the average annual temp is 82 degrees, and humidity averages 90% - that's a heckuva long way from your mild weather in Massachusetts, where color doesn't matter.
Broad, sweeping assumptions about the national car market don't work well when applied from the limited knowledge of the NE car market and climate.
"**Body: 2 door Coach Builders Limited Convertible** ..
Who did the conversion, ASC, Eisenhardt, Newport ..? "
The conversion company is named "Coach Builders Limited" They are in High Springs FL, and are widely recognized as the "BEST" convertible top coach builder in "modern" times. H&E has, sadly, closed its doors, as did M+M a few years back. Only Superior is still left among the old guard. I believe CBL's web site address is www.coachbuildersltd.com. They charge $12,000 for a "soft boot" (traditional vinyl boot cover) or $16,000.00 for a "hard boot" (like the old Eldorado's "parade boot" but it automatically opens and closes when the top is raised or lowered). Both the car I have and the car I'm considering have "hard boots".
Body Style: [2dr/4dr/wagon]
Engine: [3.5 liter, 4/6 cylinder, auto/manual] 4.7 liter V8
Driveline: [FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD]
Mileage: 68,000
Color: [exterior/interior] Midnight Blue ext. Blue int.
Major Options: [alloys, sun roof, etc.] Hard tonneau cover, running boards, rain guards, bug shield
Condition: Very good
Details of interior and exterior, including dings, scratches etc. Very good, some small scratches on tonneau cover, scratches on interior of bed not visible unless bed cover is open
Tires - new or % worn 30% worn
Brakes New rears, very good fronts
Maintenance New U-joints installed @ 62K miles
Other: Indicate prior damage/insurance claims, repaints, etc. One owner, no accidents, insurance claims, or damage
Vehicle located in the Chicago suburbs.
Thanks for your help Terry and others.
If you want your car's interior to look new, it's important to never sit in the seats. Instead, you should hover over them. It's a great thigh workout. So, to answer your question, the altitude is about 3 feet.
I should also note that the Black E320 I'm asking about is in Atlanta, which is about as good as being in Tampa or Houston. At least the owner knows how (and how often) to keep it clean.
And since Terry anwered the posts before and after mine, I'll just repost here:
2002 E320 RWD sedan, Black on Tan, 48,000 fun filled miles. Good condition. Clean, but small scratch on bumper and one very small ding. Sunroof, bose, 6 disc CD changer, but no seat heaters (they don't work well when hovering, anyway).
Car lives in Atlanta, where we are a bit sad about today's game, but still remember a darker time when the Falcon's weren't even considered the best team in the state....
robr2, "Real-World Trade-In Values" #7234, 14 May 2002 11:32 am
"99 Accord LX Sedan
[..]
Interior looks like my folks hover above the seats while driving."
-Mathias
$18,0 ....? you did good.!
Terry
======================
Speaking of Chirping birds ......
'Lanta just played a better team ... and speaking of, we have a 02 E320 with the same color as all of Michael Vicks bruises, no cold pack, 48k, slider, Bozo sound .... ya should know the deal by now, no paint by numbers, deep round things, serviced, no $2 car washes, no curb burners and no Bonnie and Clyde interior .. if so, then trade side, in and around the super high $22's, low $23's - hit 50k and it will probably drop another $3 grand ...
Terry.
Post is for a buddy of mine, trying to decide if he's trading or going retail (or keeping). Based on your trade numbers, is retail somewhere between $25K and $26?
(I'll wait quitely now).
Charlie
Terry.
Down the curvy path to Retail Rd: Big detail, Big Ad, finish any K service, $28,900 *asking* and wave bye bye at the first $26,9/$27,9 ...
Don't forget the update .!
Terry.
Yeah I wish.