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Needs tires, if the re-spray was good and doesn't need to be redone probably looking at trade between $18-19000
2004 TSX meteor silver
manual trans, no nav
37k miles
Very nice condition, but has had minor repair on a front fender due to the side of my garage jumping out at me, couple of chips in the windshield (should be replaced), and has brand new tires.
For what it's worth, I worked some numbers just a couple of days ago at a BMW dealership, and the trade value on my TSX was $19,000. I didn't end up doing the deal, but thought that trade was pretty fair, based on what I see on the market, and what the "guides" are saying.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Any idea what trade-in will be?
First, a bimmer or Lexus store won't give you more for your trade because there cars are more. If anything, you might get less initially.
Bimmer and Lexus sales guys are the varsity and they are always looking to make profit any way they can.
Conversely, if you look at a car with alot of incentives, those incentives can be put to your trade "allowance"
Now, your RAV if it were undamaged is proably an $11-12000 car.
W/ a $6k repair bill and possibly a bad carfax it would drop to maybe the $10k range.
I know what you're saying, but the pricing given on the new BMW was a fair price, particularly for starters (about $1k over invoice). So, I felt the trade value was an "independent value" and seems fairly consistent with some of the feedback here.
To your point, as Terry always says, it's the difference value that counts.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Here is my original post:
I'm looking at a 2003 Element EX, 2 wd, 5 speed handshaker, dark blue with 24500 miles, vin 5J6YH17573L018771. Is located in a suburb of St louis in a Honda dealer's inventory. Carfax shows 2 owners (with the second 1 being the current dealer?). Also, shows as being an auction vehicle, one private owner but auctioned as a fleet vehicle? ? Can anyone explain?
Anyway, looks and drives well. Is CPO'd. What do you think the dealer has in it and what would be a fair offer?It has been at dealer for about 2 months and when I went to look at it, it had a dead battery from sitting....
Thanks in advance!
Jim
Don't know what he paid for it, what it cost to CPO, whether there is a PAC or any ad fees or other charges to the car.
Check the TMV on Edmunds, check the local paper for comparable cars, you also might try asking about the car on a honda board.
Jim
However, that info doesn't help when dealing w/ a dealer who has had the car for 2 mos.
Meaning it would be easier to get an attractive deal or harder? :confuse:
Jim
If your idea of an attractive deal is to pay auction price or close to it, then it will be harder to get a good deal on that car.
That car has gone thru a book change and has depreciated since he bought it. He also undoubtably spent money on the car while he has had it.
Plus, profits are generally higher on used cars then new since the public has no idea what the cost of the car truly is.
I am not going to dispute that the dealers make more on used cars than new as that has been established by every insider that I have have ever dealt with. On the other hand, I WOULD argue that a quality used car may be a much better value than a new one.
Market pricing is fairly perfect on new vehicles - anyone can look up pricing on dozens of websites. The used car market is very imperfect. If you are patient, you can generally find a steal if you avoit the "hot" models.
There are generally reasons why "hot" cars are hot and "steal" cars aren't.
Thanks for the insight. I'm an ex-stlouisan and now live in memphis. I've noticed the market is pretty flat for used Elements here as they sit in inventories a long time and then they are off to auction 'cause i've seen the same car float around between dealers. Anyway, all that i've seen locally are automatics
Thanks again,
Jim
If your idea of an attractive deal is to pay auction price or close to it, then it will be harder to get a good deal on that car.
That car has gone thru a book change and has depreciated since he bought it. He also undoubtably spent money on the car while he has had it.
I don't understand - are you saying that it's harder to get a good deal on a car that has been sitting on the lot for awhile?
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Not a dealer, but I'll try to answer it.
Yeah, that's true. It's easier to get a deal in the sense that most dealers will realize it's time to push the old sled out, and take a small or zero profit.
BUT: The car has likely been depreciating steadily since then, the market may have shifted -- things change as winter ends, at least around here, and prices go UP for a while. Then the market cools off a couple, three months later. 4x4's aren't so hot anymore, for one thing, and minivans go flat -- no idea why that is. Then you figure in the way gas has gone up, and look out.
So if Mr. Dealerman bought an F150 4x4 sorta high in mid-February, and he still has it, you can pay his wholesale price and still not get a good deal. Especially if he missed
And there isn't a dealer (or UC manager) in the world who likes to lose money on a used car.
Now if he "stole" one yesterday at the auction, you can buy it today for $1,300 over and make everyone happy.... I've only been to one auction and I've seen that happen; bought an '02 Pathfinder LE with all the fixin's for $10k and flipped it to an out-of-town dealer for $11,300 a week later.. don't think you coulda walked in off the street the day he brought it home and gotten it for $11,500?
Turn 'em and burn 'em.
-Mathias
Car dealers constant complaint (justified) is that buyers have no realistic idea of what their car is worth. I'm sure we've all read.. "The market determines the price... not what you paid for it, or what you owe on it"
And yet... A dealer will overpay for a car... or overprice it, so that it sits on his lot for four months.. And, can't let it go for the market price because, "I have more money than that into it."
Why that should make a difference, I'm not sure... One bad decision just leads to another one..
As a car buyer, one thing to remember... No matter what a used car is worth, it is possible that the dealer will not sell that particular unit for a reasonable price.. Sometimes, you just have to move on to another vehicle..
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm looking at buying a 2002 CPO Lexus SC 430 with 37K miles on it. The dealer is listing the car for $42K, but the KBB trade-in value for this car is only $33K.
Therefore, there seems to be a $9K margin for the dealer to work with. If that's the case, I'll try to make him come down $5K or so on the price.
I'd just like to confirm that the trade-in value with such a car is really that low?
Any thoughts will help...
My current ride is a perfect example of that. Stipped down sedan (but in great condition) on a luxury used car lot in Cincinnati. Dealer bought the car at auction in April. I made my offer over the July 4th weekend. Sales manager said he needed more.
I get a call the Tuesday before Labor Day in Chicago offering me the car at my price.
I think that it is hard to admit - whether you are a used car manager, a stock trader, a HR manager - that you made a mistake and it is time to bite the bullet and take a loss. It is easier to park the car in the back of the lot and hope taht perhaps, some greater fool will buy the car and save you from that fate.
Some used car people do it better than others.
Also, alot of the tactics that new car buyers use, the used car buyers don't. So it is easier for a used car operation to make profit and cover themselves when they are heavy in a used car.
That being said, there are times you do take a loss.
You don't want to do it, but it happens.
Dealers will naturally resist taking that loss as long as possible.
He's got the color combo I want though...
2004 VW New Beetle Convertible GLS
1.8-liter 4-cylinder Turbo
5-speed manual
22,750 miles
Harvest Moon Beige body/Black roof
Cream leather interior
Standard Equipment:
A/C, power steering/windows/locks, front fog lights
Electronic stabilization program/Traction control
Power-operated convertible top
Leather-wrapped steering wheel, shift knob, hand brake
Monsoon audio w/AM/FM cassette
Major Options:
17" alloy wheels
Bi-Xenon HID headlights
Heated seats, mirrors, windshield washer nozzles
Wind blocker
20GB PhatNoise MP3 player
in Good/Outstanding condition (flawless except for minor curb rash on 3 of 4 wheels, which have been touched up with color-matching paint; minor [$400] repair expertly completed by top local body shop two months ago after a stone that fell off a cliff dented/scraped some paint off a rear quarter panel); tires have at least 50% life left
Jim
A dealer near my workplace has this car listed for around $35000 (originally listed at 37000). He said he could work with $33280. I can find a brand new one for $37500 although sticker price is around $40000.
Can't find other cars like it used with same mileage and color (daytona blue which I want)
I think fair price is 32000 (15% depreciation on $37500) but he wouldn't play ball for $33000 even. The car's been sitting on the lot for 3 weeks at least. Should I increase my offer or stay put?
What you're saying is, it's in average condition for its age.
As Terry says: "There is no such thing as Excellent Condition".
Anybody notice it was more fun with Terry around? Not a dig at any of youse guyse, of course....
Keeping 'em honest one car at a time,
I remain,
-Mathias
I'm not saying that at all. The average car owner isn't especially careful about where they park, and as a result after two years of ownership will have at least one or two dings along their sides. Mine has NONE, because I've only parked away from other cars every time I park my car for the two years I've owned it. And that's just one example of the exceptional, even obsessive, care I've taken of this vehicle. (The only irregularities to this rule, as I've already pointed out, are the very minor spots of curb rash on my wheels, all of which happened at incremental speeds while backing into parking spaces alongside a curb; with its compromised rear visibility top up or down combined with its bulbous contours, this car is the hardest of any I've had when it comes to judging its footprint.)
The car looks far closer to new than the two years old it actually is. It doesn't hurt, either, that the entire top is less than a year old, since the original was replaced under warranty due to a fluke manufacturing defect.
You're the one who said my car is in average condition for its age, not me. And on that score, I certainly wouldn't suggest you're being dishonest, just mistaken.
... and no, I'm not going to ask anyone to respost ...
Terry. :shades:
.... gheez, been back just a few minutes and we got the: "what's my shiftknob worth" with the no location crew workin' already ...
Terry.
Q
Thanks for the "welcome back" .... it's nice to back in the good ol' USA again ...
Terry.
=============================
Mathias wasn't trying to be "dishonest or mistaken.." .... he's just given ya a course in reality 101 ....
... you don't pick up any big points for parkin' the Vdub out in the north 40 .. it just shows some pride of ownership ...
What kills this little dudette is the handshaker, the meat clever, the movin' around thing between the seats .... the miles are okay and the color is good .. the new roof will "sometimes" give buyers the perception (real or perceived) of maybe a theft or your EX gave you a "going away present" with a Swiss Army knife, which "sometimes" makes folks ponder items like seats, tires and maybe the tunes went missing .. stuff like that ....
anywhooo .... you might see the mid/tall $16's, could "might" get real lucky and see the low low low low low low $17's with Fathers Day coming up (even though this is a chicks car ..l.o.l..) ..... if ya think it's really a work of Art, then run it down Retail Rd -- $19,900 *asking* and grab $18,5/$19,0 .... but I think the tax difference will make up that difference, hmmm.? ....... what saves this unit is the spring/summer weather, come Fall or winter these dudettes are like trying to sell the Asian Flu .....
Terry :P
PS: "Outstanding condition" is an 04 NSX with 5,100 miles that has sat in an air conditioned garage and only driven "after" 6PM (not to get the direct light from the sun ..l.o.l..)
I had a funny feeling when I look in at 07:30 on Sunday morning and see "six" new messages in RWTIV... and sure enough, you're back.
In the inimitable words of C. Montgomery Burns:
Ex-cellent.
-Mathias
FINALLY, just getting caught up with things ... spent last week up in Charlotte for the Wachovia ..
Terry. :sick:
PS: who the heck is C. Montgomery Burns.?
Well, it's not.
I looked at it. Pearl white, which is cheesy but works on an older Audi. Cream leather, all cracked... rr seats folded and a dog crate in the back (ugh). Smells OK inside, though. Check the oil and inside the valve cover; that appears OK; no leaks under it. Car has 99k miles.
But: There's rust in a couple of the wheel wells. The serpentine belt is older than me, or looks like it is. And the tail gate apparently had some rust spots and was, uh, touched up by the owner. It was the kind of job I wouldn't do for my ex-wife, and I don't even have an ex-wife. It looks like it was done with Glidden #3 Flat exterior enamel. Atrocious.
The whole car looked like Neglect In A Can.
The price, you ask?
$7,900.
I told her I would have looked to snap it up for $1800 at the yard sale but would not be attending.
My wife asked me where it was and knew the house... she's been "shopping" this area for 15 years after all... the lady is one of those people who thinks everythign they have is worth the moon.
As a friend of mine says about our job: "That's what makes Science so interesting: The people!".
The other car was an XJS rust bucket. Good heavens.
-Mathias
C.M. Burns aka Mr. Burns is Homer Simpson's Boss and the owner of the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant.
-Mathias
half the callers thought -- if they thought at all -- that it was a 5sp automatic.
Silver, power stuff, no roof, no alloys, tires nearly bald.
27k miles.
Excellent Condition
Just kidding. But the buyer thought it was in nice shape.
No smoking, dogs, one reasonable kid, no accidents etc. etc.
Asked $12,300 then asked $11,800; sold yesterday for $11,500. I suspect that was all the cookies in the jar, even though it was the cheapest '04 with any kind of miles in the area.
It's getting very tough to sell a stick shift car that isn't a $3,500 beater. Had to drive an hour to get to the owner.. no serious calls from around here at all.
Thought I'd share it here, now that it's a dun deal.
-Mathias
Who will buy another Vibe as soon as the GM Card is recharged...
Advertised it for a month on cars.com and had it in front of the house.
recap:
'98 Volvo S70 T5 auto. leather, slider, bun warmers, etc. 115k miles. Asking $6295 to start. Then down to $6k. Then down to $5800.
Finally went ahead and listed it on ebay with a Buy it Now of $5995 and starting price of $5k. Had more calls in 36 hours of ebay than 30 days of cars.com. Finally sold it to a guy in Virginia for $5500 (he technically bought it through private sale, so i cancelled the ebay auction about 40 hours after starting it). He took a 10-hour train ride to pick it up. He was VERY happy with the condition and the deal he got.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
... how about a 00 Lexus SC300 with 37k in pearl with tan guts..?
You would think the miles would bail this one out, but Nooooooooo .... the spoiler is an aftermarket painted in "white" (I guess they thought nobody would notice .l.o.l..) .. the passenger side rear quarter has been touched and painted at least twice, we have 3 mismatched tires, and I guess the guy liked to keep a bowling ball in is rear pocket (just for effect) .. and, he made sure he hit every Love Bug between the Keys and Kansas City .. of course he didn't bother to wash them off, so the paint is burned off the nose - and no 30k service .....
... he's thinkin' $22,500 .. I'm thinkin' he needs to get some Lasik Surgery ...... (it's a 10 grand car, might get silly at $11)
Terry.
It's cost you about, what..? ... 30 cts a day to run that little dude..l.o.l..
Terry.