I dunno here.. $5k is laughable, and $10k is also quite cheap, but I'm not looking at this truck.
1) It's been smacked. That alone is bad. It's bad if the truck had a fender, hood, headlight and bumper. Now we're talking a Pillar? That's structural damage.. no matter what ANYONE tells you, this is a wholesale item and it has to run under an announcement for frame/unibody damage. Even if it was fixed by Boyd Coddington, it's been smacked and fixed.
Carfax Shmarfax I'm afraid.. here's a couple of nice BMWs with clean carfax reports...an X5 and a 525i...
So there goes the Carfax myth.. also Georgia is one of the states that rarely sells their police accident reports to Carfax (Which is where they get their accident info 90+% of the time) so Carfaxes on GA cars are great for making paper airplanes with.
So enough of my blabber.. what's it worth? $10,500-11k is my gut.. I'd be in the 10s but someone might go more.
A friend of mine who I was on the phone with a couple of hours ago figured it for being worth 11.. and his business is high mileage stuff.
It's a $13-13,500 unit at the auction if I had to guess.. if it wasn't hit. Hit, with a unibody announcement.. 11s, MAYBE 12k at the right sale and that sale is almost 500 miles south of ya or 900 miles north.
Keep me posted and keep shopping... the market's tight on new cars but appraisals can vary widely.
I have to agree w/ Brentwood. You have a car that has been wrecked. The body stickers are gone from the doors,which is a big deal on Toyota's. The car does sound like it has frame damage,so that MUST be disclosed when you run it thru the auction.
Also, I have never heard Edmunds claim that their TMV prices are based on Manheim,esp since there is usually soem difference between the 2.
Many, many thanks for the information. I asked about getting compensated for lost value of the truck at the time of the accident and wound up with a check for $295 from the insurance company. Think I will give them a call back.
In general, for cars without an accident history, is it true that Edmunds TMV trade in values reflect Manheim auction prices? If so, why does it seem I can never quite get TMV when I have traded in the past? (There may be some suboptimal negotiating skills involved here!)
Thanks as well for the Georgia Carfax info. I was wondering why my Carfax came up clean and now, since I am in the market for a used car, I will have to pay closer attention to those from Georgia. I know to look for VIN stickers on all the doors. What else can an amateur do to spot a prior wreck?
I was trying to contact Manheim to see if there was some way I could access the auction figures. I was told that they were available only to registered dealers. When I asked if a good approximation was available elsewhere, they told me to check out Edmunds TMV.
When a dealer accepts a trade, does he or she need a spread between the amount allowed for the trade and the actual auciton price to cover transporatation to the auction and other costs? Does TMV take this into account?
I was offered $17,400 originally but after working a little extra managed to be offered $17,900 but the payment on the Maxima was a little out of my ball park even with a 2.9% interest rate. Might ask for $18100 or $18200 plus a little lower on the Maxima (financing over rebate) currently @ $29800.. May shoot for $29000 or $28800 with the 2.9% 60 months.
Ok....have asked for assistance in this forum on two previous cars, and it was a godsend both times.
Northern NJ 2004 XC90 AWD 2.5t 79,500 miles Crystal Green Mettalic (silver by any rational view :-) ) Navigation, 3rd row seat, dvd entertainment. Pretty good condition- clean history, never accident, fender, or anything. Nokian all seasons, 15k miles wear All maintenance and service through Volvo Thanks!
C&D gave that model a solid review, as did CR. My buddy just got one. I test drove it and was impressed. It does sit a little low, but that was my only complaint.
Simply put, TMV is a guesstimate. It in no way reflects actual auction values.
Carfax is only as good as the people who report into it. If no report is generated,then you end up w/ a clean Carfax. Most wrecks are easy to spot. On japanese cars,the VIN stickers missing in the doors is a good indication. Panel gaps are another(unless its an American car,all their panel gaps are crap). check the door edges for roughness,they should be smooth. Check the door jams for paint seams,also should be smooth. Check the fender bolts in the front,they should not have any marks(like from an impact wrench) on them. Make sure the cars paint is uniform,and make sure the color is even on the car. Check the paint for fisheyes,ripples,sanding marks etc.
FAIK, TMV takes nothing into account. It is a guesstimate. Auction values aren't solid either. A dealer has to determine whether he is going to keep the car,or wholesale it. If he is going to keep it,then he might put more than the auction price into it. Esp if it is a desireable model. If he is going to wholesale it,then the cost of transport,cleanup and the lower price at the next auction has to be taken into account.
Yikes,thats a bunch of miles. It's too bad,because a Volvo dealer really can't certify that car. Because of that,and a TON of miles you are probably looking at @ $16,000-17,000 or so.
"Oh, and let's not forget the cameo appearance/rap video by ... ohhhh... darn... what was his name. The one who wore the fake nose. His big song was Humpty-hump, IIRC. I'm usually pretty good at this '80s trivia stuff."
In general, should I expect to get the TMV value when I trade? I realize that this Toyota is an exception because of the accident history, but in prior transactions with undamaged cars I have not had much success getting TMV. Is this a function of my negotiating skills? Thank you, Max and Brentwood for all you information.
Inasmuch as Edmunds has never revealed how they arrive at the their numbers, there's no way to know how they come up with them. Edmunds doesn't buy vehicles (nor do KBB or NADA) and TMV may or may be grounded in reality.
Given that you shopped your Toyota at three different stores, it would seem to that you do your homework so I doubt your negotiating skills are deficient. Just as in trying to get the best new car price, the only way to truly establish what used iron is worth is to shop, shop, shop.
The times that I've traded the numbers have been extremely close to "book," probably because the vehicles were still pretty new with low miles. Three of the most recent five trades involved the dealer selling my vehicle (over the phone) to a distant dealer.
For a moment I thought you two were talking about Tycho Brahe, the famous Danish Astronomer, but his "accident" didn't happen in the '80s. It happened in the '60s --- 1560s that is!
2004 XC90 AWD 2.5t 79,500 miles Crystal Green Mettalic (silver by any rational view ) Navigation, 3rd row seat, dvd entertainment. Pretty good condition- clean history, never accident, fender, or anything. Nokian all seasons, 15k miles wear All maintenance and service through Volvo Thanks!
Miles are going to smack this hard I am afraid... reality is in and around the $15k number.
Throw it on eBay/Craigslist..etc... ask $17,900 it ought to find a home quick. People always love cheater cars!
You got offered all the money and then some... no idea what the new Maxima is worth tho... but $17,900 is a lot for your car on trade. Doesn't a new one like yours run around $23-24k? Your car has a retail value of $20-21.. $18k is all the money and a bag of chips. In fact, a bag of them expensive chips they sell at the expensive supermarket...
In general you're realistically going to get what the market bears when you trade.
I started this topic.. heck, 7 years ago maybe it was? Because TMV is NEVER going to be 100% spot on all the time. It has been my experience that Edmunds is about as accurate as any online valuation guide, but there's still some cars that they miss by an ENORMOUS amount (88-91 BMW M3 Valuations on TMV more accurately affect salvage auction values.. in some cases TMV on those cars is as much as 80-85% below their actual value).
So it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and no online guide will ever be.
Simply put, when I appraise a car, I will only pay for the car what I feel that it's worth. A good friend of mine is a wholesaler down in North Central Florida. I talk to him on a daily basis. His business is buying new car trades and shipping them off to auctions (It happens that the 2 and sometimes 3 auctions that he sells 97% of his stuff at are Manheim sales). Our numbers on cars jive 90+% of the time and Pat does quite well for himself.
I do the same thing.. I wholesale used cars, got a couple of new car stores I buy out of and ship the stuff to auction. I don't have a retail license, don't even want one.
Now, it's rare for a dealer to give auction block prices on trade for a car for a number of reasons but mainly because Auction prices usually reflect the top of the market on a wholesale level.
Most new car stores wholesale their non-retail trade-ins by either selling them to a wholesaler or shipping them off to an auction.
So here's an example of a few cars that I have run at an auction for a dealer that I know.. the owner's a good friend and I help him get unburied from cars once in a while when his used car manager the idiot messes up....
One was an 01 Cadillac DeVille. Base car, 65k Black/Black, Chrome 16s, clean car, no paint, scuff in front bumper otherwise close to retail ready. I got $9,300 across the block for it.
$9,300 (225) approximate Auction fee (75) Title not present fee $9,000 net check to dealer Then... (125) Transport to auction (100) detail car before sale (100) for me to rep the car.
So he got $8,675 to get rid of the car.. he had $8500 in it which was more than I put on it.. IIRC I put $7500 on it and he needed more to make the deal. He made $175 on it and, IMO, the car did strong money.. I figured it for $8700ish across the block.
In this case, TMV hit it about $95 over what I did.. but I think that they are a bit light on the dealer retail #... these cars with those miles do in the $8s at the sale.. nobody's going to buy one to make $500 on it.
Now, the dealer that bought it paid $9300 plus $225 fee, plus transport, plus he'll spend $150 to shoot that bumper and be buried I mean have close to $10k in it by the time it hits the lot.
This is why we don't use TMV.. it's a free tool and you get what ya pay for... it's hit or miss. Reality on a car like that, retail, is probably in the $11,500-12k range.
Thank you for that post. That was one of the most enlightening things I've read here. That kind of information is why I find this forum so interesting. Going into a dealer's showroom, the average person has no idea what goes on "behind the scenes."
Maybe I'm the only one, but I find the "business" of buying and selling cars fascinating, even though my own line of work has nothing at all to do with cars.
Los Angeles, Ca 2005 LT K1500 Chevy Suburban 4 Door Full size SUV 5.3l V8 4wd/AWD 35K miles Red LT trim - Alloys, Sunroof, DVD, rear air, leather, third row seat, On Star, XM, Nav, Bose Premium sound, running boards, Home Link, duel power seats, integrated phone... every option they offered as far as I know. 51K window sticker. :surprise:
Car looks perfect and I just had it detailed to really make it shine. One 3 inch scratch by the right rear door...Carpool kid dragging a back pack out of the truck. Tires are due...very worn. Other than those two Items the truck is "10", garage kept,no damage, cream puff.
Trade in values from NADA 28.6K KBB 24.8K Edmunds 26.9K
BEFORE I had it detailed I just had it washed..carpets and mats still looked dirty... I tried to just trade it in at the nearest Toyota dealer on a Tundra Crewmax. They said it "booked" for 24,300. Which I could "buy" - KBB at 24.8k less a set of tires. Then they dropped the bomb they said the "actual cash value" ACV was only 20,000. I walked away at that point . 4K under trade in! I thought something in the 25K range was "right".
I'm planning on getting a paint stick an fixing the scratch.
Should I buy tires BEFORE I trade it in again? I can get a set at Costco for about $500. Thoughts? Is "ACV" a scam? Or just a way of saying "we don't want it"?
Edmunds' TMV Trade-In is more like retail here... these have taken a tumble lately. Seen how much Unleaded is selling for? :sick:
If it was retail ready I would think somewhere in the $22k range would about kill it. KBB hits this one the closest but they are still high. Deduct for scratch and maypop rubber.. $21ish.. MAYBE mid 21s or $22k to a dealer that really wants it.
Color is not a big help, a lot of the options that you got add little value at trade-in time and it's a Suburban.. and they are a bit weak right now.
$20k was light, but not as light as you think. $25k is retail...
Well, sadly, your Toyota dealer isn't off by much,in my opinion. ACV is what a wholesaler or dealer would pay the Toyota store for your truck. Suburbans are not sought after merchandise right now. There is a brand new Suburban out,that is incentivised. NO American truck trades for anywhere near its book value,they just don't. Now,maybe you could get $21k,or if it were perfect(nneding tires and a 3" scratch automatically remove that possibility) it might be worth $22,000. But NOBODY is going to give you $25,000 cash for it. If they do, all they are doing is showing an overallowance(charging you more for their car/truck). If you really have tyo get $25k or better,try selling it yourself.
Also, if you are in a tax credit state for you trade this would be an additional $1k to $1.5k you need to get for your Suburban to make selling it privately worthwhile.
My amateur opinion is, no. My guess is the most extra you'd get for the vehicle from a dealer is the price of a set of tires, so at best it's a wash. And a dealer can buy tires at least as cheaply as you can.
Are you definitely buying another vehicle? IOW, you're selling this one no matter what?
If so, I agree with the sales tax savings with a trade-in comment. Makes it very appealing to trade in $20K+ vehicles instead of selling privately. Unless you want to deal with endless e-mails & attempts to low-ball you from weirdos & deadbeats on Craig's list.....
Thanks. I've gotten a few quotes, and 15,750 is the highest I've been offered on trade with a reasonable purchase price on the new vehicle. Considering we are comfortable on both sides, think we'll take the plunge.
I always feel car buying is like legal negotiations. When both sides are relatively content but both feeling they left some $ on the table, it's probably a fair deal.
Driving to work today, I saw an SUV slightly resembling a Range Rover, yet distinctly different. It was badged as a "LaForza 5 Liter" and looked to be in really good shape.
Having never seen or even heard of these before, I did an online search but was only able to find that these were designed to compete with the Range Rover, have been "available" in America beginning in 1989, are based off of an Italian military vehicle, use a Ford small block, and have been praised both for their off-road prowess and on-road driving character.
I'm just curious. It's not often I come across a 1990 or later vehicle that I've never seen before. What did these sell for new? Where would you even buy one? What are they worth with a few years and a few miles on them, as compared to the Range Rover? Based on the limited info I have it appeared to be a 1989-1993.
Texas 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe LT 2WD 4dr V8 5.3 Liter 38,800 miles Summit White Leather interior Excellent/Very Clean Fully Loaded with exception of Navigation Sun/Sound pkg. DVD System, Bose Premium sound, MP3/6 CD,Sunroof Power Seats, Bucket seats, 3rd row, rear air.... Roof rack, running boards, Towing pkg....
...would $25,600 be a good price if I could sell for that? Would I be better off trading it in to get the Sales Tax Credit??? May not can sell it for that, someone is trying to buy it now...what would a dealer really give me for trade-in? NADA Clean Retail is 29,5... I realize that is not possible...1st time to trade one in by myself, since husband passed away...just wondering if I would be better off to trade it, which may be only option, unless I just wanted to go way down... I owe more than I can probably get for it, we added on to the loan to begin with....Advice anyone?? Thank YOU very much.
some of the difference in price you are seeing on edmunds and kbb is that you are using outstanding condition on edmunds and excellent cond on kbb. First of all, basically no used vehicle meets these standards and considering you need tires, the vehicle can't be considered excellent. Putting tires on it won't get you that much either, cause like the other posters have said, these gas hogs just aren't in crazy demand, so their price is falling. I would never recommend putting tires on the vehicle cause you are very unlikely to get what you paid for the tires back in the trade. The new tires would only be an option if you intend of selling it private party.
Probably a $21-22,000 truck wholesale. So, $25k would be a reasonable asking price for private party sale. Selling it privately is more work than trading it in. Obviously, you have to figure in the tax credit.
The seats are the only real eye sore. They could be reupholstered. The dash you could probably patch up with a vinyl kit. Touch-up paint in a couple of spots. The rust is only surface. He seems to be disclosing all the very minor flaws.
He has to find a buyer that wants a sleeper, because this really is.
I kinda like it, but it's not the type of car I'd buy. He's appealing to a very narrow audience. He might get money that would surprise us, if he finds the right buyer.
I'll toss out a wild guess - he's probably asking for $8-9 grand. Who knows what it's actually worth.
Actually, the picture album is from the last owner.. who sold it recently...
The guy that bought it has done some minor work (radiator, etc).. had bigger plans for it.... but, has decided against it.. and, has put the car back up for sale..
I was pretty impressed with the overall cosmetic condition (not the driver's seat, obviously). When you see what the stock 325is models go for with the stock 168 HP engine... :surprise: If I were to purchase it, I wouldn't really want to pay much extra for the M-power.. Just consider it a really nice stock model, and go from there...
Since brentwood is really into the old Bimmers, I wanted to see what he thought of it..
Personally, I'd just look for a really nice (relatively) original '88 325is--they were pretty awesome cars to begin with, as I recall. All the conversion stuff would scare me off. Unless I could get a great indie shop to check it out, or did my own wrenching, etc. But I still wouldn't pay more than an original one, & probably less.
If you bought it, & sold it later, you'd have a lot of 'splainin to do about all the converted stuff to most buyers. And a lot of buyers of older bmw's are really cheap, & picky, unless it's something truly outstanding or collectible.....
But, I'd rather have a conversion from a later BMW model, than one that modded the original engine... I think you get a more reliable engine that way..
If it's well sorted, it could actually be better than stock.. Unmolested E30 325is models are really, really rare... most of them are rusting into oblivion.. This one looks really nice, compared to most, regardless of drive train..
Thank you very much for the advice...this is really great to be able to get help like this, like another world here, just found it...so much better than just trying to figure it all out for yourself. May have it sold for $25,600, will know for sure in a few days.... Thank you, Janie
P.S. I know this is the trade-in forum, but what is the best way to ask a salesperson if they will take a price anywhere close to the invoice, it seems to scare them off when I have asked this. One said in an email, "I will sell it to you for $500 over what I own the vehicle for"...what does that mean? Does not mean the same as 500 over invoice...when I said, "No games please", never answered my email...???? Is this just too insulting to them to ask about invoice price, what do other people do?
Well, it depends on the car. Some cars are never sold at invoice,some cars are sold below invoice. Now, when you utter the "I" word, esp in am email, most dealers are just going to peg you for a grinder. Some won't want to deal with you,because they believe they won't make any money. Some will tell you whatever you want to hear just to get you in the door. The easiest way to buy a car is to let the dealer know that you are willing to let him make a reasonable profit. Doesn't mean you have to pay MSRP,but it usually means you have to pay over invoice. Get quotes from multiple dealers,if you can,and see who is the easiest to deal with.
I think I know that car.. not personally but know of it. Basically, it was owned by this kid in San Diego, ended up in MN, got the engine swap, then the kid in SD bought it back, etc. Guy's name is Ben.
It's got a swap that I have done myself a few times.. I don't recall how involved the swap was and what works and what does not work (AC, Cruise, etc.. ok, you may not use the cruise control but it's good to be thorough).
Now, that car also has an S52 in it converted to OBD1.. basically a 96-99 M3 engine with 95 and earlier engine management... I bet he's having all kinds of fun smogging it out in California.
Now, what's it worth? Cars like that, if done right and if the basic platform car is a nice one, are going to sell for $10-12k as a rule.
To have that car built by a shop would cost $8,000 for the drivetrain swap alone... let's take labor out of it.
And that doesn't include the probably $1,000 in service parts that you'll want to use to do the swap, fluids, labor, etc etc etc.
There's a pretty strong market for S50 and S52 engined E30s... the nice thing about an OBD1 Converted S52 car is that you get 240hp to the crank as long as you use a 3.5" HFM (Air Flow meter basically) and 24 pound injectors with the right software.
This deal turned out really well. I found a Honda dealer who had an 07 MT Fit Sport with 5500 miles who also had a relationship with a used car dealer who "specializes" in cars with a less than perfect past.
I told them everything about the Sequoia and told them I needed a ballpark figure over the phone before I took the 90 minute drive to the dealership. The quoted me $13,000 and, although a little skeptical, I headed down today.
I must have had an out of body negotiating experience. I am not sure how much I wound up getting for my trade because I immediately began negotiations on a final drive out price to swap cars, pay taxes, and take care of all "fees." I left the dealership in the Fit only $1900 poorer.
On the bill of sale, the Fit is listed as sold for $14,770 - below Edmunds TMV - and the trade in listed as $13,500.
I guess spending $225 to have the Sequoia thoroughly cleaned, detailed, and waxed helped - perhaps one of the best investments I have made in a while.
You got a used 2007 Fit Sport with 5,500 miles for your Sequoia and $1900?
You got that deal? I'd have been skeptical too! You STOLE the Fit! It would do $14,770 or more at a dealer auction and your Sequoia was just not worth $13,500.
I'd have expected a reality trade difference of at least $5,000! That fit is a $15k wholesale piece or more.. so figure $16,500-17k retail, the Sequoia is worth what it's worth... wow.
If you were in New Jersey I would tell you to swing by the shop for a congratulatory Beer. You did VERY well!
Comments
1) It's been smacked. That alone is bad. It's bad if the truck had a fender, hood, headlight and bumper. Now we're talking a Pillar? That's structural damage.. no matter what ANYONE tells you, this is a wholesale item and it has to run under an announcement for frame/unibody damage. Even if it was fixed by Boyd Coddington, it's been smacked and fixed.
Carfax Shmarfax I'm afraid.. here's a couple of nice BMWs with clean carfax reports...an X5 and a 525i...
So there goes the Carfax myth.. also Georgia is one of the states that rarely sells their police accident reports to Carfax (Which is where they get their accident info 90+% of the time) so Carfaxes on GA cars are great for making paper airplanes with.
So enough of my blabber.. what's it worth? $10,500-11k is my gut.. I'd be in the 10s but someone might go more.
A friend of mine who I was on the phone with a couple of hours ago figured it for being worth 11.. and his business is high mileage stuff.
It's a $13-13,500 unit at the auction if I had to guess.. if it wasn't hit. Hit, with a unibody announcement.. 11s, MAYBE 12k at the right sale and that sale is almost 500 miles south of ya or 900 miles north.
Keep me posted and keep shopping... the market's tight on new cars but appraisals can vary widely.
I agree with bill take the 6,000 and run with it.
You have a car that has been wrecked. The body stickers are gone from the doors,which is a big deal on Toyota's.
The car does sound like it has frame damage,so that MUST be disclosed when you run it thru the auction.
Also, I have never heard Edmunds claim that their TMV prices are based on Manheim,esp since there is usually soem difference between the 2.
In general, for cars without an accident history, is it true that Edmunds TMV trade in values reflect Manheim auction prices? If so, why does it seem I can never quite get TMV when I have traded in the past? (There may be some suboptimal negotiating skills involved here!)
Thanks as well for the Georgia Carfax info. I was wondering why my Carfax came up clean and now, since I am in the market for a used car, I will have to pay closer attention to those from Georgia. I know to look for VIN stickers on all the doors. What else can an amateur do to spot a prior wreck?
When a dealer accepts a trade, does he or she need a spread between the amount allowed for the trade and the actual auciton price to cover transporatation to the auction and other costs? Does TMV take this into account?
Northern NJ
2004 XC90 AWD 2.5t
79,500 miles
Crystal Green Mettalic (silver by any rational view :-) )
Navigation, 3rd row seat, dvd entertainment.
Pretty good condition- clean history, never accident, fender, or anything.
Nokian all seasons, 15k miles wear
All maintenance and service through Volvo
Thanks!
C&D gave that model a solid review, as did CR. My buddy just got one. I test drove it and was impressed. It does sit a little low, but that was my only complaint.
Good balance of power and economy, too.
It in no way reflects actual auction values.
Carfax is only as good as the people who report into it.
If no report is generated,then you end up w/ a clean Carfax.
Most wrecks are easy to spot.
On japanese cars,the VIN stickers missing in the doors is a good indication.
Panel gaps are another(unless its an American car,all their panel gaps are crap). check the door edges for roughness,they should be smooth.
Check the door jams for paint seams,also should be smooth.
Check the fender bolts in the front,they should not have any marks(like from an impact wrench) on them.
Make sure the cars paint is uniform,and make sure the color is even on the car. Check the paint for fisheyes,ripples,sanding marks etc.
It is a guesstimate.
Auction values aren't solid either.
A dealer has to determine whether he is going to keep the car,or wholesale it.
If he is going to keep it,then he might put more than the auction price into it. Esp if it is a desireable model.
If he is going to wholesale it,then the cost of transport,cleanup and the lower price at the next auction has to be taken into account.
It's too bad,because a Volvo dealer really can't certify that car.
Because of that,and a TON of miles you are probably looking at @ $16,000-17,000 or so.
don't forget 2 pac was in the group too, lol...
Thank you, Max and Brentwood for all you information.
Sometimes, TMV and the cars actual value do coexist.
Most of the time,they don't.
Given that you shopped your Toyota at three different stores, it would seem to that you do your homework so I doubt your negotiating skills are deficient. Just as in trying to get the best new car price, the only way to truly establish what used iron is worth is to shop, shop, shop.
The times that I've traded the numbers have been extremely close to "book," probably because the vehicles were still pretty new with low miles. Three of the most recent five trades involved the dealer selling my vehicle (over the phone) to a distant dealer.
For a moment I thought you two were talking about Tycho Brahe, the famous Danish Astronomer, but his "accident" didn't happen in the '80s. It happened in the '60s --- 1560s that is!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Ahh, my neck of the woods!
2004 XC90 AWD 2.5t
79,500 miles
Crystal Green Mettalic (silver by any rational view )
Navigation, 3rd row seat, dvd entertainment.
Pretty good condition- clean history, never accident, fender, or anything.
Nokian all seasons, 15k miles wear
All maintenance and service through Volvo
Thanks!
Miles are going to smack this hard I am afraid... reality is in and around the $15k number.
Throw it on eBay/Craigslist..etc... ask $17,900 it ought to find a home quick. People always love cheater cars!
You got offered all the money and then some... no idea what the new Maxima is worth tho... but $17,900 is a lot for your car on trade. Doesn't a new one like yours run around $23-24k? Your car has a retail value of $20-21.. $18k is all the money and a bag of chips. In fact, a bag of them expensive chips they sell at the expensive supermarket...
I started this topic.. heck, 7 years ago maybe it was? Because TMV is NEVER going to be 100% spot on all the time. It has been my experience that Edmunds is about as accurate as any online valuation guide, but there's still some cars that they miss by an ENORMOUS amount (88-91 BMW M3 Valuations on TMV more accurately affect salvage auction values.. in some cases TMV on those cars is as much as 80-85% below their actual value).
So it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and no online guide will ever be.
Simply put, when I appraise a car, I will only pay for the car what I feel that it's worth. A good friend of mine is a wholesaler down in North Central Florida. I talk to him on a daily basis. His business is buying new car trades and shipping them off to auctions (It happens that the 2 and sometimes 3 auctions that he sells 97% of his stuff at are Manheim sales). Our numbers on cars jive 90+% of the time and Pat does quite well for himself.
I do the same thing.. I wholesale used cars, got a couple of new car stores I buy out of and ship the stuff to auction. I don't have a retail license, don't even want one.
Now, it's rare for a dealer to give auction block prices on trade for a car for a number of reasons but mainly because Auction prices usually reflect the top of the market on a wholesale level.
Most new car stores wholesale their non-retail trade-ins by either selling them to a wholesaler or shipping them off to an auction.
So here's an example of a few cars that I have run at an auction for a dealer that I know.. the owner's a good friend and I help him get unburied from cars once in a while when his used car manager the idiot messes up....
One was an 01 Cadillac DeVille. Base car, 65k Black/Black, Chrome 16s, clean car, no paint, scuff in front bumper otherwise close to retail ready. I got $9,300 across the block for it.
$9,300
(225) approximate Auction fee
(75) Title not present fee
$9,000 net check to dealer
Then...
(125) Transport to auction
(100) detail car before sale
(100) for me to rep the car.
So he got $8,675 to get rid of the car.. he had $8500 in it which was more than I put on it.. IIRC I put $7500 on it and he needed more to make the deal. He made $175 on it and, IMO, the car did strong money.. I figured it for $8700ish across the block.
In this case, TMV hit it about $95 over what I did.. but I think that they are a bit light on the dealer retail #... these cars with those miles do in the $8s at the sale.. nobody's going to buy one to make $500 on it.
Now, the dealer that bought it paid $9300 plus $225 fee, plus transport, plus he'll spend $150 to shoot that bumper and be buried I mean have close to $10k in it by the time it hits the lot.
This is why we don't use TMV.. it's a free tool and you get what ya pay for... it's hit or miss. Reality on a car like that, retail, is probably in the $11,500-12k range.
Thank you for that post. That was one of the most enlightening things I've read here. That kind of information is why I find this forum so interesting. Going into a dealer's showroom, the average person has no idea what goes on "behind the scenes."
Maybe I'm the only one, but I find the "business" of buying and selling cars fascinating, even though my own line of work has nothing at all to do with cars.
2005 LT K1500 Chevy Suburban
4 Door Full size SUV
5.3l V8
4wd/AWD
35K miles
Red
LT trim - Alloys, Sunroof, DVD, rear air, leather, third row seat, On Star, XM, Nav, Bose Premium sound, running boards, Home Link, duel power seats, integrated phone... every option they offered as far as I know. 51K window sticker. :surprise:
Car looks perfect and I just had it detailed to really make it shine. One 3 inch scratch by the right rear door...Carpool kid dragging a back pack out of the truck.
Tires are due...very worn. Other than those two Items the truck is "10", garage kept,no damage, cream puff.
Trade in values from
NADA 28.6K
KBB 24.8K
Edmunds 26.9K
BEFORE I had it detailed I just had it washed..carpets and mats still looked dirty...
I'm planning on getting a paint stick an fixing the scratch.
Should I buy tires BEFORE I trade it in again? I can get a set at Costco for about $500.
Thoughts? Is "ACV" a scam? Or just a way of saying "we don't want it"?
Edmunds' TMV Trade-In is more like retail here... these have taken a tumble lately. Seen how much Unleaded is selling for? :sick:
If it was retail ready I would think somewhere in the $22k range would about kill it. KBB hits this one the closest but they are still high. Deduct for scratch and maypop rubber.. $21ish.. MAYBE mid 21s or $22k to a dealer that really wants it.
Color is not a big help, a lot of the options that you got add little value at trade-in time and it's a Suburban.. and they are a bit weak right now.
$20k was light, but not as light as you think. $25k is retail...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news..
Bill
ACV is what a wholesaler or dealer would pay the Toyota store for your truck.
Suburbans are not sought after merchandise right now.
There is a brand new Suburban out,that is incentivised.
NO American truck trades for anywhere near its book value,they just don't.
Now,maybe you could get $21k,or if it were perfect(nneding tires and a 3" scratch automatically remove that possibility) it might be worth $22,000.
But NOBODY is going to give you $25,000 cash for it.
If they do, all they are doing is showing an overallowance(charging you more for their car/truck).
If you really have tyo get $25k or better,try selling it yourself.
So it may be worth the effort to at least TRY to sell it locally...
What's a good range for a private party sale. Scratch fixed and new tires.
25 to 27K? or is that still to high?
If retail (the price a dealer could get) is 25, private party should be about 23.5 (splitting the difference between wholesale and retail).
Spend $200 on scratch, $400-500 on a set of tires.. out of curiosity, what size ya got on there? 265-70-17?
Bill
My amateur opinion is, no. My guess is the most extra you'd get for the vehicle from a dealer is the price of a set of tires, so at best it's a wash. And a dealer can buy tires at least as cheaply as you can.
Are you definitely buying another vehicle? IOW, you're selling this one no matter what?
If so, I agree with the sales tax savings with a trade-in comment. Makes it very appealing to trade in $20K+ vehicles instead of selling privately. Unless you want to deal with endless e-mails & attempts to low-ball you from weirdos & deadbeats on Craig's list.....
I always feel car buying is like legal negotiations. When both sides are relatively content but both feeling they left some $ on the table, it's probably a fair deal.
So you did well.
Whatcha buying out of curiosity?
Having never seen or even heard of these before, I did an online search but was only able to find that these were designed to compete with the Range Rover, have been "available" in America beginning in 1989, are based off of an Italian military vehicle, use a Ford small block, and have been praised both for their off-road prowess and on-road driving character.
I'm just curious. It's not often I come across a 1990 or later vehicle that I've never seen before. What did these sell for new? Where would you even buy one? What are they worth with a few years and a few miles on them, as compared to the Range Rover? Based on the limited info I have it appeared to be a 1989-1993.
2005 Chevrolet Tahoe LT
2WD 4dr
V8 5.3 Liter
38,800 miles
Summit White
Leather interior
Excellent/Very Clean
Fully Loaded with exception of Navigation
Sun/Sound pkg.
DVD System, Bose Premium sound, MP3/6 CD,Sunroof
Power Seats, Bucket seats, 3rd row, rear air....
Roof rack, running boards, Towing pkg....
...would $25,600 be a good price if I could sell for that? Would I be better off trading it in to get the Sales Tax Credit??? May not can sell it for that, someone is trying to buy it now...what would a dealer really give me for trade-in?
NADA Clean Retail is 29,5... I realize that is not possible...1st time to trade one in by myself, since husband passed away...just wondering if I would be better off to trade it, which may be only option, unless I just wanted to go way down... I owe more than I can probably get for it, we added on to the loan to begin with....Advice anyone?? Thank YOU very much.
They went for Range Rover money when new.
Today,if you can find one,you could pick up one for a few thousand.
So, $25k would be a reasonable asking price for private party sale.
Selling it privately is more work than trading it in.
Obviously, you have to figure in the tax credit.
Volvomax hit it right.. $21ish, MAYBE $22k.
Say you get $21,500 and the tax credit is like 6%.. that's an effective trade-in of $22,790.. if you can get $25k, take it. $23k or less... trade it.
'96 S52 engine conversion, with E36 M3 5-speed and steering rack..
Alpine white with tan seats/carpet and black panels/dash..
Pics here: http://picasaweb.google.com/nschoch/E30S52
Whaddaya think?
Anyone near San Diego want to go check that one out? Then drive it home for me? lol..
regards,
kyfdx
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I mean, I'm willing to bet this guy wants more than you'd pay for a real M3.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm interested in hearing what someone else thinks, before coloring their opinion with an asking price..
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He has to find a buyer that wants a sleeper, because this really is.
I kinda like it, but it's not the type of car I'd buy. He's appealing to a very narrow audience. He might get money that would surprise us, if he finds the right buyer.
I'll toss out a wild guess - he's probably asking for $8-9 grand. Who knows what it's actually worth.
The guy that bought it has done some minor work (radiator, etc).. had bigger plans for it.... but, has decided against it.. and, has put the car back up for sale..
I was pretty impressed with the overall cosmetic condition (not the driver's seat, obviously). When you see what the stock 325is models go for with the stock 168 HP engine... :surprise: If I were to purchase it, I wouldn't really want to pay much extra for the M-power.. Just consider it a really nice stock model, and go from there...
Since brentwood is really into the old Bimmers, I wanted to see what he thought of it..
regards,
kyfdx
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If you bought it, & sold it later, you'd have a lot of 'splainin to do about all the converted stuff to most buyers. And a lot of buyers of older bmw's are really cheap, & picky, unless it's something truly outstanding or collectible.....
But, I'd rather have a conversion from a later BMW model, than one that modded the original engine... I think you get a more reliable engine that way..
If it's well sorted, it could actually be better than stock.. Unmolested E30 325is models are really, really rare... most of them are rusting into oblivion.. This one looks really nice, compared to most, regardless of drive train..
240 HP wouldn't hurt, either...
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Thank you very much for the advice...this is really great to be able to get help like this, like another world here, just found it...so much better than just trying to figure it all out for yourself. May have it sold for $25,600, will know for sure in a few days.... Thank you, Janie
P.S. I know this is the trade-in forum, but what is the best way to ask a salesperson if they will take a price anywhere close to the invoice, it seems to scare them off when I have asked this. One said in an email, "I will sell it to you for $500 over what I own the vehicle for"...what does that mean? Does not mean the same as 500 over invoice...when I said, "No games please", never answered my email...???? Is this just too insulting to them to ask about invoice price, what do other people do?
Some cars are never sold at invoice,some cars are sold below invoice.
Now, when you utter the "I" word, esp in am email, most dealers are just going to peg you for a grinder.
Some won't want to deal with you,because they believe they won't make any money. Some will tell you whatever you want to hear just to get you in the door.
The easiest way to buy a car is to let the dealer know that you are willing to let him make a reasonable profit.
Doesn't mean you have to pay MSRP,but it usually means you have to pay over invoice. Get quotes from multiple dealers,if you can,and see who is the easiest to deal with.
I think I know that car.. not personally but know of it. Basically, it was owned by this kid in San Diego, ended up in MN, got the engine swap, then the kid in SD bought it back, etc. Guy's name is Ben.
It's got a swap that I have done myself a few times.. I don't recall how involved the swap was and what works and what does not work (AC, Cruise, etc.. ok, you may not use the cruise control but it's good to be thorough).
Now, that car also has an S52 in it converted to OBD1.. basically a 96-99 M3 engine with 95 and earlier engine management... I bet he's having all kinds of fun smogging it out in California.
Now, what's it worth? Cars like that, if done right and if the basic platform car is a nice one, are going to sell for $10-12k as a rule.
To have that car built by a shop would cost $8,000 for the drivetrain swap alone... let's take labor out of it.
S52 engine: $3,000
OBD1 Engine Harness: $200
OBD1 ECU: $200
OBD1 Intake Manifold and fuel rail: $150
Wiring and cooling hose adapters for OBD1 COnversion from Turner Motorsport: $100
Cold Air Intake probably $100
3.5" HFM: $150
24lb Injectors $200
Conforti Software; $399
ZF 310/320 Transmission: $600
Brake Booster, used, $100
Clutch and flywheel (UUC Stage 1 aluminum) $800
E30 M3 Driveshaft: $250
And that doesn't include the probably $1,000 in service parts that you'll want to use to do the swap, fluids, labor, etc etc etc.
There's a pretty strong market for S50 and S52 engined E30s... the nice thing about an OBD1 Converted S52 car is that you get 240hp to the crank as long as you use a 3.5" HFM (Air Flow meter basically) and 24 pound injectors with the right software.
I drove a guy's slightly used E30 325is around.....1990. Should'a bought it.....
I told them everything about the Sequoia and told them I needed a ballpark figure over the phone before I took the 90 minute drive to the dealership. The quoted me $13,000 and, although a little skeptical, I headed down today.
I must have had an out of body negotiating experience. I am not sure how much I wound up getting for my trade because I immediately began negotiations on a final drive out price to swap cars, pay taxes, and take care of all "fees." I left the dealership in the Fit only $1900 poorer.
On the bill of sale, the Fit is listed as sold for $14,770 - below Edmunds TMV - and the trade in listed as $13,500.
I guess spending $225 to have the Sequoia thoroughly cleaned, detailed, and waxed helped - perhaps one of the best investments I have made in a while.
Many, many thanks for all the advice!
You got a used 2007 Fit Sport with 5,500 miles for your Sequoia and $1900?
You got that deal? I'd have been skeptical too! You STOLE the Fit! It would do $14,770 or more at a dealer auction and your Sequoia was just not worth $13,500.
I'd have expected a reality trade difference of at least $5,000! That fit is a $15k wholesale piece or more.. so figure $16,500-17k retail, the Sequoia is worth what it's worth... wow.
If you were in New Jersey I would tell you to swing by the shop for a congratulatory Beer. You did VERY well!
I think I call this the deal of the week.