Real-World Trade-In Values

jayrider · March 2010

The dealers have these on the lot new -- lots of them. Figure dealer invoice minus any current rebate. Then subtract 20-25%. Maybe more. My guess is you are way upside down on the car -- you owe substantially more than it is worth. If you can afford a severe financial loss you can make the trade. If not you are likely stuck.

brandmar1 · March 2010

Jayrider - Thanks for your response.

I actually got a REALLY good deal on this vehicle and am probably about even with my trade.

gooddeal2 · March 2010

imo, if the price that you got was really good, take about 3k off from what you paid for the car before TTL = trade in value = ~low to mid 15k (for a base HB s Sport)?

duke15 · March 2010

I'm trying to decide to trade in our old car or sell it ourselves. My wife would be little help in the process, and I both work and go to school full time so I am considering trading in although I usual sell myself. I've already negotiated my new vehicle at $200 over invoice, which is very good for this area and compared to others I've seen posted in a related "Prices Paid" forum for that model. Our used car looks great and would help to sell itself, but only on the very few days we don't need it and I can park it in a busy location with the top down. I am not sure if the closing of the Saturn brand will hurt the value or not.

2007 Saturn Sky
30K miles
graphite silver
upgrades: Chrome wheels (factory), full leather (black), AT, mp3/sat/cd/radio, stabilitrak
Normal to light wear and tear inside, light on outside (no dings, scratches)

Edmunds(clean):
Trade in - $13873
Private Party - $15402

Kelly Blue Book (good):
Trade in - $13650
Private Party - $15840

Autotrader online and craigslist ads:
2008, auto, 10K miles, dealer - $19994
2007 auto, same dealer I am buying from, 22K miles - $16947
2007 manual, dealer certified used car, 15K miles - $20937
2007 manual, 44K miles, dealer Internet special - $12999

So I am wondering what I can get trade in verses selling it myself. I normally sell my own cars to get more out of them, but the dealer I am working with (has not seen my car yet), is offering a blanket ad on their website and through local tv commercials for 125% of the KBB Fair trade in value on all trade ins right now. That equates for me to be:

KBB Fair Value = $12,300 X 125% = $15,375.

So if the Edmunds and KBB private party values hold true, I'm within a few hundred dollars with no effort on my own.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought I'd include the data I'd already researched and hope for some other opinions.

Thanks!

jayrider · March 2010

The 125% over book won't apply on a $200 over invoice deal. If you sell it yourself it could take 3-4 months. Dealer has your car with less miles for 17k asking price. May not want another but figure 12k for yours to start. May work a few hundred more. If you have time to sell it you are looking at 10% less than the dealers price. 17k -$500 = 16500 X 90% =$14850. Figure the sales tax break of 1k for the trade and you are down 850. Someone has to want your car badly to pay 17k or better.

steine13 · March 2010

Saw the newspaper today... locally, the ff. leases are being offered:

2010 Corolla LE, 36/36 lease, "nothing" down, $450 due, $169/month.
dto. Camry, .., $199/mo
Prius II, $216
...and maybe the most amazing deal:
Rav4, base, AWD(!), $199/month.

On all of these, 2 yrs scheduled maintenance free for current Toyota owners.

The Camry/Corolla have an add'l $500 cash for current Toyota owners.

These would have been amazing numbers a decade ago; today it's hard to believe.

Has Toyota taken *that* big a hit over the acceleration flub?
Heck, I'm considering either the Corolla or the Rav4, on general principle... I was looking to park my '03 Sienna in the winters anyway.

Cheers,
-Mathias

duke15 · March 2010

Thanks, I didn't think of the 10% less than dealer's price, that is a good idea for a starting point. I don't think I'd find anyone at $17,000, but I was hoping to go to $15,000 as my lowest the more I look at it. We are just now entering the period to sell a convertible, and while I'd love to use it this summer, it would mak it harder to sell or trade late in the season.

When I mentioned the 125% KBB trade in value to my salesman, he was quick to point out it was 125% of KBB fair trade in value (vs excellent or good) and told me I'd get more money selling it myself.

I think I will probably take it to carmax to see what they say, as well as separately emailing my salesman to see if I could get 125% fair KBB value on this sale. That, plus any additional comments I receive on here, should be about as much information as I can probably get before making a decision.

tifighter · March 2010

That rav4 deal sounds interesting, depending on terms, miles, residual, etc.

steine13 · March 2010

The particulars are all the same, so I only listed them once:

12k/year, 36 months, "$450 due at signing, no security deposit"
i.o.w. no or negligible down payment.
And $199/month, for "model 4432," which turns out to be 4WD, base, 4cyl, automatic.

Residual isn't listed... I'd probably just give it back anyway.
It's $24+ sticker, and one pays

Cheers -m

corvette · March 2010

Incredible deals. I'd lease a Prius right now if I hadn't just bought a car in January. That said, the deals will probably get better in the coming months. I don't think we've seen the full effect of the media frenzy on Toyota's resale values and the incentives they need to sell new product.

roadburner · March 2010

Incredible deals.

Yes, it's too bad that Toyota no longer builds interesting sports cars/coupes like the MR2 and Supra... :mad:

ateixeira · March 2010

Wait for the Toyubaru coupe. That'll be interesting. :shades:

roadburner · March 2010

Wait for the Toyubaru coupe. That'll be interesting.

True enough, but they will likely be the the recipient of ADM stickers rather than rebates...

ateixeira · March 2010

Wait 3 years, until demand is met and the newness wears off.

NA Miatas were hot when new and got markups, but I picked up a cherry used one and enjoyed it for 8 years. I still miss it.

cdnpinhead · March 2010

NA Miatas were hot when new and got markups. . .

Yup -- I bought my first Miata in '91 after the furor died down. Did a similar thing in '73 with my 240-Z. Sadly, I should have gone a year earlier with the Z, when they still had real carbs.

Overall, I very much agree with your point. If I want a Golf or Passat TDI, it won't be anytime soon, but maybe in a year or two.

stickguy · March 2010

2005 Accord EX-L. 4 cyl, 5 speed (yes, a stick) 4 door.
silver with black leather.
EX-L so heated seats, XM, power seats, moonroof.
In NJ.
about 54,000 miles. 1 owner, all records. Generally clean with the usually few nicks and dings, but never any body work (unless you count a new bumper skin)
recent tires and rear brakes and a battery. So, far as I know, needs nothing.

I really need gas to spike again so I can tout the good gas mileage...

So, what do the experts think for a trade, and a reasonable figure to shoot for on a private sale to 'git er done!

ateixeira · March 2010

DON'T SELL IT, MAN! :P

fezo · March 2010

Wow. He's getting serious about that Volvo...

breld · March 2010

I'm considering selling my 2007 BMW 530xi:

In Denver, Silver/Gray, Gray Leather, 33,500 miles
Premium Package
Sport Package
Cold Weather Package
18" Sport Wheels
Stereo Upgrade (Logic7)
BMW M-Tech body kit
And the kicker - 6 sp manual

It is in very nice condition (garaged most of the time) and has brand new tires.

It's become my second car, and as such, I'd be more interested in a smaller, more "sports-dedicated" car.

Thoughts on trade and private party values?

Thanks!

So I have a tentative offer from a private buyer on my 530xi for $29,000. From what I can tell based on research, that's a very fair, if not strong, offer, but just wanted to get some input from those here as well. I initially told them I'd go as low as $30k, and this is what they came back with.

stickguy · March 2010

stalking me now I see!

Wait, you need a fresh Accord 5 speed, don't you? make an offer!

fezo · March 2010

I knew that was coming.

Actually if it weren't my wife driving it I might do just that. She wants an automatic. Sigh.

qbrozen · March 2010

well then no need to worry yerself about that volvo. :P

kyfdx · March 2010

From what I see... that's not a bad offer..

If the buyer is real, don't let him get away...

fezo · March 2010

Oh, hush! I just looked at that Volvo - well, the site anyway. What a beauty. Maybe I'll let my wife have the Celica.....

ateixeira · March 2010

Has he seen the car, and is offering real money?

Or is he going to inspect it later and nickel-and-dime you down even more?

breld · March 2010

ateixeira - this husband and wife are looking at the car tomorrow and purport to have "cash in hand" at the negotiated price. We settled at $29,500.

They have not seen the car in person yet, so it seems a bit backwards to me - I'd personally look at the car first, make sure it's what I want, and then talk price. But I asked her about it, and she said that they knew this was the car they want assuming it's in the condition I claim it to be (which it is), so they wanted to settle on price before going any further.

Is it suspect? We're meeting at their bank so funds can be verified. Are there other things I should be wary of?

jayrider · March 2010

As long as their names aren't Bonnie and Clyde sounds pretty low risk. Some folks know what they want -- period. Good for you for connecting with them.

ateixeira · March 2010

Ask them to get a Cashier's check.

They don't have to give it to you until you sign over the title, but the funds are guaranteed.

Don't take a personal check even if they have the funds - they could still stop it.

Sounds good, though.

lrguy44 · March 2010

Certified checks can be easily forged. Go to thebuyer's bank with them and have the teller cut a bank check. Those funds are good.

breld · March 2010

Yup - the buyer and I talked today and agreed to go to her bank, assuming they want to go through with the purchase, and have the check issued then and there.

Thanks for all the advice - I've only been successful privately selling one other car, and the buyer was financing, so their bank took care of all the financial issues.

On another note...

breld · March 2010

I don't want to jinx anything by even talking about the replacement, but assuming this sale goes through tomorrow, I can start the fun process of the search for a sports car.

So, I've been eyeing this at a local dealer:

2008 MX-5 Miata PRHT
Grand Touring Model, 6 speed manual
Blue exterior, brown leather interior
Premium and suspension packages
7,200 miles, and Mazda certified

Current asking price is $21,500.

Thoughts on what they may have in it and what a good price would be?

I'm not set on a Miata, but it's on the list of considerations.

Ateixeira - I suppose you can weigh in on thoughts on this car, huh?

kyfdx · March 2010

This guy has about a dozen used Miatas in stock.. His prices are reasonable.. with maybe a grand of wiggle room in them... He is a pretty good guide for Mazda, Subaru, Saab and Volvo pricing...

Local used car dealer near me..

stickguy · March 2010

you were looking at the wagon, right?

This one is interesting.

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dda/detail.jsp?ct=u&car_id=272195966&dealer_id- =76278&car_year=2007&dealership_view_name=www.rallye-motors.com&sort_type=make_m- odelASC&address=&result_car_id=null&first_record=26&pager.offset=25&cardist=5268-

kyfdx · March 2010

Yeah.. .those are nice..

But, I want smaller... .and to shift for myself..

He had a couple of those, last summer...

tifighter · March 2010

Was the 9-5 wagon available with a stick?

jayrider · March 2010

I love the late model Saab convertibles. They also seat 4. Nothing looks like them on the road. Check the online search engines to see what kind of prices they bring.

kyfdx · March 2010

Not sure about the wagon... I've seen plenty of 9-5 sedans with stick-shift.

The turbo-4 model 9-3 would be fine, but it's hard finding one with stick, and all the options (moonroof/leather), plus they don't get the body kit that the Aero model has..

fezo · March 2010

I love the late model Saab convertibles. They also seat 4. Nothing looks like them on the road.

I could not agree more. Great looking vehicles. My brother has an 01 9-3 sedan which has been bulletproof.

igozoomzoom · March 2010

You definitely want to sell it yourself, rather than trade-in, which you probably already know. In my personal experience (owning eight Hondas, all with manual transmissions and three were Accords), dealerships undervalue 5-speed Accords. But if you sell it privately and advertise it well, you'll find VERY eager buyers who want an Accord with 5-speed manual and will pay the same as an equivalent automatic version!

Looking at AutoTrader.com for your area, the Edmunds TMV price of $11,000 Private Party seems like a fair price!

ateixeira · March 2010

I have a 2008 PRHT, also blue! 6 speed, but mine's a Touring.

Mine has no leather. The brown leather is gorgeous (and heated). The standard leather is a pumpkin color, so the brown is nicer. That's a special car.

I also have the suspension package. You basically get Bilsteins and a Torsen rear LSD, plus summer tires. Take a long test drive, because the ride can feel a bit stiff. Also budget for snow tires if you live in the snow belt, or plan on all-seasons next time.

Very low miles and CPO. Hmm, to me that looks like a case of buyer's remorse. They got the fancy car, found it hard to live with (small, stiff ride). I have more than 1 car so for me it's perfect, but I will warn you: it is not a good "only car" to have.

Price may seem high but I think it's fair. That car probably stickered for over $30 grand. At the peak of incentives, March 2009, there was a $5000 rebate on those, but only for a month or so to clear them out.

Figure the previous owner, best case scenario, got the full rebate, and probably paid about $25k or so with both of those packages.

Picking it up CPO for $21.5k hardly used seems like a bargain to me.

PHRT are hard to find. I shopped one year ago and saw one basic model for $19k that sold the first day it was in the papers. Next best price was $20.4k and that was not CPO and had much higher miles.

I give that deal a thumbs up. That is a very, very well equipped Miata, and even if the 1st owner got a bargain on it, you stand to get an even bigger bargain.

breld · March 2010

Thanks ateixeira - I knew you'd be able to provide some great insight.

This would be a second car for me as well - I have a primary car that serves all the duties of kid-hauling, winter driving, etc. It's essentially why I came to the decision to sell the 530xi - what a great car, but once it became my second car, it seemed a bit much for that purpose. And that's why the Miata is so appealing.

I'm gonna take a look at the Miata today. Assuming the condition is reflective of the low miles, it seems their current asking price of $21.5 is pretty good. The other option is another local dealer who has a couple of 2009's left over, both the same - Competition Yellow, manual, Grand Touring with premium and suspension. With that $5,500 incentive, that should be into the low $20's. I looked at them the other day, and the yellow is growing on me, but I do like the hard top on the used one.

Again, thanks for the comments and advice - extremely helpful.

Bruce

breld · March 2010

And just to update on the sale of my 530:

As implied by my last post, my 530xi did indeed sell yesterday. It went so smoothly, I was a bit nervous until I had the check in hand. But we met at their bank, they had already gotten the cashier's check, then the wife took the car for a 15-minute test drive, and that was it. I went into the bank with her to verify the funds, signed the title over and they were off. Full, "good" condition, private party value per KBB. Sad to see that amazing car go, but certainly excited to start shopping for the replacement.

jayrider · March 2010

What would you figure your depreciation was for the time you owned the bmw?

stickguy · March 2010

isn't really the best way to describe the decrease in value of your car while you own it.

I prefer to think of it as a usage fee. or in this case, and enjoyment fee (sounds like an awesome car).

also not as bad when you figure it out on a per mile basis, unless, of course, you drive very few miles.

Just using the rule of thumb of what they charge you for overage on a lease, 50,000 miles should be ~10K just for the miles.

tidester · March 2010

or in this case, and enjoyment fee

So, if I really cannot stand my car it will lose value less quickly? :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

stickguy · March 2010

that is an inverse relationship.

dbt · March 2010

I also have an NC Miata - 2006 Grand Touring with Auto, soft top, black leather. I'm in Minnesota, so the PRHT would have been nice, but it is 1/4 of an inch too short in headroom for me - my head hits in it, but not in the soft top. I bought it used with 25k miles a year and a half ago for 13,500.

It's my third miata, and I use it as spring/summer/fall individual commute car, and weekend fun. The engine is a good bit stronger than previous ones. Fun car. The soft top is ridiculously easy to put down. Otoh, the PRHT top is pretty fast going down too. I've been top down the past 11 days here in Minnesota.

The 08s have some things the 06s did not, and most of the bugs worked out. Good luck.

ateixeira · March 2010

Now I know that yellow doesn't come in a hard top, so you're also looking at soft tops, I suppose.

The hard top is nice - it's a coupe and a convertible. Plus it give you a little bit of security.

I had an NA Miata and miss some things about it, but not the soft top. I replaced it once, then it was vandalized, so I had to replace it a 2nd time. What a pain. I would never do that again. Took 2 days, one to get it off, another to get it on. I had aches for a week.

Pay the little extra the PRHT costs now, else pay the same amount for a replacement soft top in 8 years anyway, because that is about how long they last.

Mazda really has a $5500 incentive on 2009s? Wow.

ateixeira · March 2010

13,500 was a steal. I was actively shopping when you bought yours. I don't think I saw anything less than $14k.

Automatic Miatas cost more but resale is less. Odd phenomenon.

PRHT takes about 11-12 seconds, but if there's someone behind you honking, that seems longer.

breld · March 2010

Depreciation on the BMW seemed awfully steep. But, of course, I bought it new and owned it for just under 3 1/2 years - probably the worst years for depreciation, right? About 44% over that time.

Real-World Trade-In Values

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